LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.10.12 (03) [E/LS]

Thu Oct 12 22:25:35 UTC 2006

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L O W L A N D S - L * 12 October 2006 * Volume 03
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From: jonny [jonny.meibohm at arcor.de]
Subject: LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.10.08 (02) [D/E]

Hi, Ron,

you asked:
> _Byspeel_ and _byspil_ are variations, and you seem to accept them as
> such. Are
> you suggesting that _byspil_ developed independently from _spil_?
I'm not sure about this!

DUDEN says:
qote<
Mhd., ahd. b-spel Â»belehrende ErzÃ¤hlung, Gleichnis, SprichwortÂ« ist gebildet aus
mhd., ahd. b (vgl. bei) und mhd., ahd. spel Â»ErzÃ¤hlungÂ« und bedeutet eigtl.
Â»nebenbei ErzÃ¤hltesÂ«. Das Wort ist volksetymologisch an Â»SpielÂ« (s. d.) angelehnt
worden, zuerst in spÃ¤tmhd. bspil. Unter dem Einfluss von Â»ExempelÂ« (s. d.) hat
Â»BeispielÂ« seit dem 16. Jh. die heutige Bed. Â»Muster, Vorbild; Einzelfall als
ErklÃ¤rung fÃ¼r eine bestimmte ErscheinungÂ« entwickelt. Das gemeingerm. Grundwort
ist ein alter Fachausdruck der Dichtkunst und meinte die bedeutungsvolle Rede:
got. spill Â»Sage, FabelÂ«, aengl. spell, aisl. spjall Â»ErzÃ¤hlung, RedeÂ« (engl.
spell bedeutet wie auch das aisl. Wort Â»ZauberspruchÂ«, gospel aus aengl. godspell
Â»gute Botschaft, EvangeliumÂ«).  
Duden - Das HerkunftswÃ¶rterbuch, 3. Aufl. Mannheim 2001 [CD-ROM]
>unquote

GRIMM means:
quote<
BEISPIEL, n. fabula, exemplum, fÃ¼r beispell, denn mit spiel ludus hat das wort
nichts zu schaffen, es stammt aus spell sermo, narratio, ahd. spel gen. spelles
(GRAFF 6, 333), ags. spell, altn. spiall, goth. spill, deren aller doppeltes L
sich von dem einfachen in spil ludus wesentlich scheidet. wie fabula
>unquote

A little bit confusing for me...

Greutens/Regards

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

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From: jonny [jonny.meibohm at arcor.de]
Subject: LL-L 'Etymology'

Dag, Ron, Lowlanners,

kennt Jii dat Woord (adj) LS _dalberig_, G 'albern', E: 'silly' un doorvan
avv-kÃ¶mstig (verbum) LS _dalbern_ , G '(herum-)albern', E 'to fool around'?
Dat Woord waard foken bruukt, wenn de lÃ¼tten GÃ¶r'n 'nix as dumm TÃ¼ch' in jemmer
Kopp hebbt un tou'n Biispeel ne jemmer Stuuv opp-oybern wÃ¶llt man jÃ¼mmer wiider
speelt un Narr'nkroom mookt.

Woneem koomt woll dat vÃ¶Ã¶ruut stellte *d* her? DUDEN seggt, dat Hough-DÃ¼Ã¼tsche
Verb 'albern' is eyrst in 't 17. Eeuw opp-komen.

Allerbest

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

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From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Etymology

[English summary below]

Wees' bedankt, Jonny.

DÃ¼sse mails har schynts tou voer de buman up-vreten.

Ja, ik ken "dalberig" ~ "dalverig" un de verwandten woyrd' wul. Ik har jÃ¼mmers
an-namen dat weyr 'n metathees' vorm vun "dwallerig" (as in "dwaller-watschig",
"mal un dwal" u.s.w.).  As ik jÃ¼st nu daar oever na-dinken deed', daar keym my de
idee dwallerig voer (;-)). Man den keyk ik in 't Old-Sassisch woyrd'bouk na, un
daar vÃ¼nd ik dÃ¼t:

dwalÅn:
   (1) zÃ¶gern, sÃ¤umen (to hesitate, to tarry)
   (2) in die Irre gehen, umherirren (to ge lost, to roam aimlessly)
   (3) stieben, wirbeln (to scuttle, to scurry, to whirl)
   (3) unsinnig handeln (to act in a silly way, to fool around)

Den was myn mouden schynts gaar nich so mal. Metathees', seg ik Dy, metathees'! 

dwal- > dalw- > dalv- ~ dalb-

Wat segst nu?

Un nu pass up!

Verwandt is dat mit Ingelsch _to dwell_.  Dat kent de meyrsten minschen
vundagigendaags in d'n sin "(in 'n huus) wanen", "waanhaftig syn".  Man dat
beduydt ook "to lead astray, hinder, delay; also intr. (for refl.) to go astray,
err; to be delayed, tarry, stay, linger " ...  De grundsin is hyr sachs
"trÃ¼g-blyven".

Nu krigst sachs Dyn muul nich wedder tou.  ;-)

[English summary]

Jonny was asking about the Low Saxon verb _dalbern_ 'to behave in a silly way',
'to fool around'.

I said I knew the verb, also the variant _dalvern_ and the derivative _dalberig_
~ dalverig_ 'silly'.  I explained that I had always assumed that this group was
related to _dwal_, _dwallerig_, etc., also meaning 'silly' 'nonsensical', that
consonantal metathesis was involved here.  I then dismissed this idea as _dwal_
but bothered to check the Old Saxon dictionary anyway:

dwalÅn:
   (1) to hesitate, to tarry
   (2) to ge lost, to roam aimlessly
   (3) to scuttle, to scurry, to whirl
   (3) to act in a silly way, to fool around

So it looks as though I had been on the right track after all.

And I was able to go one step farther: this word group appears to be related to
English "to dwell" whose older meanings were "to lead astray, hinder, delay; also
intr. (for refl.) to go astray, err; to be delayed, tarry, stay, linger " ... the
base meaning being something like  "to stay behind, to tarry, to linger (due to
irrational or erroneous action)."

Kumpelmenten,
Reinhard/Ron

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