LL-L 'Phonology' 2006.10.25 (06) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 25 October 2006 * Volume 06
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From: Heather Rendall [HeatherRendall at compuserve.com]
Subject: LL-L 'Phonology' 2006.10.24 (06) [E]

Message text written by INTERNET:LOWLANDS-L at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG
>but the greater part of the native German speakers prefer to
pronounce it 'Scht-all', 'Scht-orch', 'scht-ehen'. Perhaps you even know
the
according proverb: "Er sstolpert über'n sspitzen Sstein.."<

Dear Johnny

It is current practice throughout MFL teaching to use standard Hochdeutsch
- so 'scht' 'schp' are what is taught for 'st' & 'sp'

There was a time when we did literature for A level that we could choose a
book/poem that contained regional German and introduce pupils to other
varieties but alas no longer.

The only exceptions may be teachers with v close connections to a certain
part of Germany, who, for example, might arrange a ski trip to Austria and
so include some Austrian.

The Languages Inspector here in Worcs did his assistantship somewhere near
Schleswig and loved to include some local German in his teaching.

Hope this helps

best wishes

Heather

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From: 'jonny' [jonny.meibohm at arcor.de]
Subject: LL-L 'Phonology' 2006.10.24 (06) [E]

Hi, Ron,

you wrote:

> I, too, pronounce _sp-_, _sm-_, _st-_ and _sn-_ with a sh ([S]) sound in
> German
Hmm- _sm-_ and _sn-_?

It's just a handful of words in Germany starting this way, and the greater part
of these (all?) are loanwoards. I don't think you would say 'Shmaragd' or
'Shnob'. And a 'Shmutje' or 'Shmutt-Aal' is LS or Missingsch, isn't it, and there
you will always say 'Smut(je)', I guess?

Or- are there really any words used like this I'm not aware of?

Greutens/Regards

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

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From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Phonology

You misunderstood, Jonny.

I wasn't talking about _sm-_ and _sn-_ in German but about the *equivalents* of
them.  Remember that German orthography is inconsistent, among other things in
that [Sp] and [St] are written etymologically and phonemically _sp-_ and _st-_
respectively, but etymological and phonemic /sm-/ and /sn-/ are spelled _schm-_
and _schn-_.

Consistent would be either
sp- sm- st- sn-
or
schp- schm- scht- schn-

Because of the inconsistency of spelling, old-fashioned Northern pronunciation is
[st], [Sm], [sp], [Sn].  As a result, most people don't realize that this is one
phonemic series.

German  |  L.Saxon |  Dutch  |  English

Stein [St] | steyn [st] | steen [st] | stone [st]
Spaten [Sp] | spaad' [sp] | spade [sp] | spade [sp]
Schmied [Sm] | smyd [sm] | smid [sm] | smith [sm]
schmal [Sm] | smal [sm] | smal [sm] | small [sm]
schmeißen [Sm] | smyten [sm] | smijten [sm] | smite [sm]
schnarchen [Sn] | snurken [sn] | snurken [sn] | snore [sn]
Schnauze [Sn] | snuut [sn] | snoet [sn] | snout [sn]
Schnee [Sn] | sney [sn] | sneeuw [sn] | snow [sn]

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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