LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.09.13 (01) [E]

Wed Sep 13 15:11:51 UTC 2006

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L O W L A N D S - L * 13 September 2006 * Volume 01
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From: David Barrow [davidab at telefonica.net.pe]
Subject: LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.09.12 (04) [E]

>From: 'jonny' [jonny.meibohm at arcor.de]
>Subject: LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.09.07 (01) [E/LS]
>
>Beste Lowlanners and Reyni,
>
>this evening I fell about a 'line' of related words:
>
>G: 'Ofen', E: 'oven' and 'stove', LS: 'Oben', but then G: 'Stoevchen'
>(diminutive; maybe of Dutch origin))
>
>All of them roughly are designating one and the same: a device to control fire
>within a house/room.
>
>What interesting kind of 'lautverschiebung'.
>
>The first German and English variety denoting an 'oven to heat a room', the
>second English one the same, but fired with gaz (??), and the third (German) just
>meaning a little , controlled flame suited to keep warm a can with tea.
>
>Why for one time with a preposed 'st-' and then without? Could it have been a
>'specializing' suffix in olden times?
>
>Anyone with an idea?
>
>Greutens/Regards
>
>Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

Jonny,

The words are not related etymologically

oven
O.E. ofen "furnace, oven," from P.Gmc. *ukhnaz (cf. O.Fris., Du.
oven, Ger. Ofen, O.N. ofn, O.Swed. oghn, Goth. auhns), from PIE *aukw-
"cooking pot" (cf. Skt. ukhah "pot, cooking pot," L. aulla "pot," Gk.
ipnos), originally, perhaps, "something hollowed out." The oven-bird
(1825) so called because of the shape of its nest. In slang, of a woman,
to have (something) in the oven "to be pregnant" is attested from 1962.

stove
1456, "heated room, bath-room," from M.L.G. or M.Du. stove, both
meaning "heated room," which was the original sense in Eng.; a general
W.Gmc. word (cf. O.E. stofa "bath-room," Ger. Stube "sitting room") of
uncertain relationship to similar words in Romance languages (cf. It.
stufa, Fr. Ã©tuve "sweating-room;" see stew (v.)). One theory traces them
all to V.L. *extufare "take a steam bath." The meaning "device for
heating or cooking" is first recorded 1618. Stove pipe is recorded from
1699; as a type of tall cylindrical hat for men, from 1851.

David Barrow

----------

From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Etymology

Thanks, Jonny and David.  Special thanks, David, for doing what I felt like doing
but was too tired to do last night and am still too tired too do this morning. 
(I'm trying to rid myself of this nasty cold ...)  Besides, you did it far better
than I would have done.  Also, we discussed all this quite some time ago (but I
felt too tired to check the archives even ...).

Let me just add three notes:

(1) The underlying form of the Low Saxon word for '(heating) stove' and cognate
of English "oven" is /aaven/, pronounced ["?@:v=m], ["?@:b=m], ["?o:v=m],
["?o:b=m].  (Realization of /-v-/ as [v] or [b] is dialect-dependent and goes
back to a sound represented in Old Saxon by a barred "b", possibly pronounced
bilabially as in Castilian and Modern Greek.)

(2) The Low Saxon cognate of German _Stube_ is _stuve_ ~ _stuuv'_ (["stu:ve] ~
["stu:be] ~ [stu:.v]), and it has the same meaning.  _Stube_ and _stuuv'_ mean,
as you said, 'sitting-room', 'living-room', 'parlor', as opposed to _Zimmer_ (cf.
English "timber") and _kamer_ (cf. English "chamber") respectively for ordinary
(originally unheated) rooms (though in some German dialects _Stube_, _Stub_,
etc., can also mean simply 'room', and _Kammer_ is also used, in southern
dialects often meaning '(small) bedroom', as Low Saxon _kamer_ ["kQ:m3`] ~
["ko:m3`] does).  The _Stube_ / _stuuv'_ used to be the only heatable room in a
house, was therefore the special room.  Relic that I am, remembering leaner and
more traditional times, I recall that we knew this room as _gute Stube_ and
_goude stuuv'_ respectively.  It tended to be off limits except evenings and on
special occasions.

(3) _StÃ¶fchen_ is a German version of an East-Frisian-derived East Frisian Low
Saxon word, the diminutive form of a cognate of "stove."  Specifically, it
denotes a teapot warmer.  It is a type of metal or china trivet stand with a
chamber that holds votive candles, and the teapot (these days also the coffee
pot) sits on top of it.  Some of these are works of art.  In some parts the same
name is used for small, portable, foot-stool-like charcoal heaters onto which
people used to place their feet, especially women, who would then drape their
long skirts over them to achive the "_kotatsu_ effect."*  (Imagine the smoke
coming out from under skirts!)  People would carry these (by handy handles fixed
to them) to church, preheated, and this would make sitting through long sermons
survivable on cold winters' days.

Kumpelmenten,
Reinhard/Ron

* A ç‚¬ç‡µ _kotatsu_ is a traditional Japanese device, usually a heater underneath
a table over which a blanket is draped (underneath a table cloth). While sitting
at the table you wrap some of the blanket around your lower body to benefit from
the heat.  These days you can buy tables with electric heaters already installed.
 I got to enjoy the original version in old country houses: a charcoal heater
with a wooden grate over it in a pit (sunken floor) over which a table is placed.
 You can thus sit on the floor and place your feet onto the wooden slats.  At
night you place your å¸ƒå›£ _futon_ bed on the floor mats next to the table and use
the blanket to cause the remaining heat of the dying ambers to go under your bed
quilt, or you do so to warm up your bed before bedtime. It's quite ingenious and
also very necessary in otherwise unheated traditional-style houses in the
wintertime. Thinking about it makes even me feel nostalgic, and I didn't grow up
there. A hearty Japanese family dinner with your warm legs by the _kotatsu_ while
snowflakes drift by the dark window ... Ah! Heaven!

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