LL-L 'Phonology' 2006.09.25 (03) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 25 September 2006 * Volume 03
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From: 'Isaac M. Davis' [isaacmacdonalddavis at gmail.com]
Subject: LL-L 'Phonology' 2006.09.18 (01) [E]

Ron wrote:

    Isaac, I had in mind (long extinct) Continental Celtic varieties, specifically
    those of the Alpine areas that came to be Romanized and/or Germanized.
    Specifically, I had in mind Southern or "Cisalpine" Celtic varieties, namely
    those often referred to as Lepontic, or, more precisely, the northernmost
    varieties of these that came into contact with Alemannic. However, it seems that
    direct Celto-Germanic contacts were rare in that region, that the Celts first
    became Romanized. In other words, those were Celts that spoke Romance varieties
    but retained ethnic Celtic awareness or labels. (Note the old German name
    _Welsch_ for Romance-speaking neighbors.)

If that's what you had in mind, why did you use the term 'Insular Celtic' then,
hmmm? :D

    It is true that in Gaulish writing we find the Greek-derived letters Θ and Ð/ð.
    But it is generally agreed that these did not represent interdentals but /t/ (~
    /d/) and /ts/ (~ /dz/), since they tend to be used interchangeably with t, d, ts
    and ds, possibly representing dentals rather than alveodentals. In brief, Gaulish
    does not seem to have had interdentals.

Fair enough. Never  having met a Gaul myself, I couldn't say one way or the other.

    As far as I know, Breton is not a Continental Celtic language but a British
    (Brythonic) one that was exported by Romano-British settlers to what is now
    Britanny.

Precisely what I said. 

    It is popularly assumed that it is a remnant of Gaulish, but this is
    false. (Similarly, it is popularly assumed that Scottish Gaelic is native to
    Scotland, but in reality it is derived from imported (Goidelic) Irish, possibly
    with (Brythonic) Pictic substrates.)

Quite right. But don't be too quick to identify the Picts as Brythons. There is
still a great big question mark over Pictish. It's actually a pet peeve of mine,
as I was explaining to my Irish teacher a couple of weeks ago, when people
present the question of who the Picts were as being even remotely settled. It's
not. Not by a longshot.

Beannachtaí geala,

Íosac Mac Dáibhidh/Isaac M. Davis

-- 

Westron wynd, when wilt thou blow
The smalle rain down can rain
Christ yf my love were in my arms
And I yn my bed again

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From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Phonology

Isaac,

> If that's what you had in mind, why did you use the term 'Insular Celtic' 
> then, hmmm? :D

Oh, I did, didn't I?  I just checked, and you're right, I hate to admit. Damnú
air! M'anam --                 nach bómánta mé! Gabhaim pardún agat, a chomrádaí!
Maybe I ought to get slapped around a bit.

OK, OK!  So I'll be good and refrain from claiming that Pictish was British ...
for the time being at least.

Slán agus sonas ort!

Reinhard/Ron

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