LL-L "Phonology" 2007.12.04 (04) [E]

Tue Dec 4 19:08:39 UTC 2007

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L O W L A N D S - L  -  04 December 2007 - Volume 04
Song Contest: lowlands-l.net/contest/ (- 31 Dec. 2007)
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From: "Ingmar Roerdinkholder" <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2007.12.03 (03) [E]

Hi Reinhard, I saw in the archives someone (D.D. Masure) answered my
message, the one below, but I didn't see the message it self.
Guess it was lost?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ingmar Roerdinkholder" <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
To: <LOWLANDS-L at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG>
Cc: "Ingmar Roerdinkholder" <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 9:00 PM
Subject: Re: LL-L "Phonology" 2007.12.03 (03) [E]> Is it possible that G or
GI before E meant [j] here, and that Gievenstede
> was the spelling for the name pronounced as Jevenstede?
>
> And isn't it likely that Old Saxon G was not [g] but fricative [G] or a
> palatal [G'], as in Dutch, including all Dutch dialects and all Low Saxon
> in the Netherlands, Belgium and many of its border regions in Germany?
> My theory is that J developed from [G'], not [g], directly, maybe because
> this [G] / [G'] had become too hard for German Low Saxon/Low Franconian
> speakers? Ingmar
>
>
> From: Helge Tietz <helgetietz at yahoo.com>
> Subject: LL-L "What does it mean?" 2007.12.01 (01) [E]
>
> Dear Lowlanders,
>
> Concerning the g/j pronunciation in Eastern Low Saxon dialects such as
> Brandenburgian (formerly also Pomeranian and East Prussian) I want to add
> that J-pronunciation of an apparant G was also commonplace in Holsten. The
> village of Jevenstedt was called Gievenstede in 1190 but became Jevenstedt
> later due to the local pronunciation. The same happened to Jahrsdoerp (HG:
> Jahrsdorf) just south of Wistedh (Hohenwestedt) which in 1149 was recorded
> as Geresthorp. So pronouncing the G in the way it is currently done in
> Northalbian Low Saxon might be a more recent development while the J
> pronunciation actually an archaic one. As such the Eastern Low-Saxon
> dialects might simply have retained an archaic pronunciation on colonial
> ground similar to American English retaining post-vocalic R pronunciation
> in
> contrast to (Southern-)British English.
>
> Regards,
>
> Helge
>
> ----------
>
> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Phonology
>
> Hi, Helge! Great to hear from you, as always.
>
> You may have a point there, which may or may not contradict the theory of
> Low Franconian influence in the east. As far as I know, the area we talked
> about earlier is not contiguous with Holstein. At least I'm not aware
> of /g/
> [j] in Mecklenburg dialects.
>
> However, it would also be consistent with my proposal of Slavonic
> substrates. After all, much of Eastern Holstein, including the island of
> Fehmarn) used to be Polabian-speaking (and there used to be
> Polabian-speaking villages even in Denmark (Island of Funen/Fyn?).
>
> See the dark purple areas marking the Polabian area along the western part
> of the Baltic Sea coast on the following map:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Central_Europe%2C_919-1125.jpg . Click
> on
> the map, and on the new page click on it again for an enlargement.
> Unfortunately, the map does not indicate Polabian presence farther south,
> in
> the Draween area on the Lunenburg Heath.
>
> I don't find any indication that there was g ~ y alternation in Old Saxon,
> which doesn't mean that there couldn't have been such in some dialects.
>
> Regards,
> Reinhard/Ron

----------

From: R. F. Hahn < sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Phonology

Ingmar,
Do you mean this one?

http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0712a&L=lowlands-l&F=&S=&P=2568

Reinhard/Ron

•

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