LL-L 'Etymology' 2007.01.06 (03) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L - 06 January 2007 - Volume 02
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From: list at marcusbuck.org
Subject: LL-L 'Etymology' 2007.01.05 (03) [E]

Zitat von R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Etymology
>
> Mathias,
>
> I'm pretty confident you're on the right track.  The greeting "Moin" seems
> to have spread from Eastern Friesland in more recent times.  This would
> explain why in other parts of Northern Germany it is used mostly by
younger
> people, probably because at one point it came to be regarded as being hip,
> with-it, chic, perhaps because younger East Frisians were heard using it.
>
> Apart from the etymological reanalysis that "Moin" means "Morgen" (which
it
> doesn't) there is the widespread assumption that people in Eastern
Friesland
> speak the "best" or "real" Low Saxon in Northern Germany.  I believe that
> this is based on the impression that the dialects in those parts are
> relatively intact, being still spoken by more young people than are other
> dialects.  What most people don't know is that those dialects have
> noticeable Frisian substrates, which accounts for "weird" terms like moi.
> Because of this they are more difficult to understand to the average North
> German, and this may lead them to believe that these dialects are more
> intact, authentic, because they seem less German than others.
>
> Kumpelmenten,
> Reinhard/Ron

I've seen no real _evidence_ for the moi derivation and none against it.
Only
assumptions. But I do believe, that it is a relatively new greeting. As is
tschüss. But I really doubt, that the attribute of being intact is of great
impact here. I don't know the exact social sources of the widespread use of
Moin, but young people don't assume much significance to intact dialectal
speech. They too don't assume much significance to "less Germanness". To a
       average North German young person East-Frisianness is not much more
appealing
than being Bavarian. (Judging from personal experiences; am I the only
person
who disliked the Bavarian Trachtengruppen at the opening match festivities
of
the Soccer World Championship 2006?)

I too don't believe, that people assume, that East Frisian is the "best" or
"real" Low Saxon. People always esteem their own dialect as the best (and
I'm
fine with that). Only people with an academic point of view see the special
features of East Frisian Platt at all, so "normal" dialect speakers or
non-dialect-speaking-regionalists don't hav any sense for such dialectal
"subtleties".

PS: Moi is widely used in East Frisian Platt, but it is also used (to a
lower
degree) in other Low Saxon Dialects. It's part of Gorch Fock's speech
(Finkwarder) and also of Mecklenburgian as in Renate Herrmann-Winters's
dictionary.

Schöne Gröten
Marcus Buck

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
 Subject: Etymology

Thanks, Marcus.

As far as I know, there is no Low Saxon (Low German) dialect in which
"morning" is rendered as Moin.  Furthermore, as far as I know, the greeting
is oldest in Eastern Friesland "Platt," which also happens to be the
dialects in which the adjective moi is totally common and regular, that it
spread from there in the 20th century.

> I too don't believe, that people assume, that East Frisian is the "best"
or
> "real" Low Saxon. People always esteem their own dialect as the best (and
I'm
> fine with that). Only people with an academic point of view see the
special
> features of East Frisian Platt at all, so "normal" dialect speakers or
> non-dialect-speaking-regionali > sts don't hav any sense for such
dialectal
> "subtleties".

I should have made this clearer by stating that many (German)
non-speakersseem to think so.  (You are absolutely right in saying
that speakers tend to
think that their dialects are the best, are most "correct.")  At least that
is what quite a few have told me. I can only guess that among the reasons
for this are that the language in those parts is in better shape as far as
usage is concerned and also that German speakers can understand even less of
it when they hear it -- which may make them think it's more "authentic."

Groytens,
Reinhard/Ron
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