LL-L "Language politics" 2007.10.08 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

=======================================================================

 L O W L A N D S - L * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226

 http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands.list at gmail.com

 Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/rules.php

 Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org - lowlands.list at gmail.com

 Commands ("signoff lowlands-l" etc.): listserv at listserv.net

 Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html

 Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html

 Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]

 Administration: lowlands.list at gmail.com or sassisch at yahoo.com


 You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
 To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
 text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
 sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.


 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
 L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
 S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)

=======================================================================

L O W L A N D S - L  -  08 October 2007 - Volume 02
Song Contest: lowlands-l.net/contest/ (- 31 Dec. 2007)
 ========================================================================

From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2007.10.07 (04) [E]

I've kept out of the North German debate so far, as I don't think it's an
Englishman's business.
But as a native speaker of the most widely spoken Lowlands language, might I
cautiously warn:

"Beware of what you wish for".

Expansion of your language doesn't strengthen your identity, it dilutes it
.  Most speakers of English aren't from England, and many couldn't find
England on a map. (OK, many English people couldn't either!)

But my point is that the Lowlands/Norse character of English has steadily
eroded away under its international and scientific status.

Paul

----------

From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2007.10.07 (04) [E]

 Dear Sandy,

you wrote:

> > 1st: No money!
>>  2nd: No teachers!
>>  3d: No space [...]
>>  4th: No pupils! [...]

> Ah, you sound a lovely death knell for your language, which any goth
> would be proud of! Perhaps, Jonny, this is what you will be remembered
> for.
Maybe I'd be proud if...

> But maybe you missed out a "No":

> 5th: No Jonny!
Or the 6th: No, Sandy-Sir!
if you continue to argue this way:

> However, you (and Gabriele) seem to me always to put the priority not on
> having the language taught but on preserving all the dialects as they
> are. I agree that this is hopeless, but its only your lack of realism
> that makes it an issue.
Lack of realism? Another 'No'. That IS realistic- all the different,
laudable ideas and attempts how to save a language are dreams, far away from
today's situation.
I don't know if you're aware of the fact that the dialects of LS are
extremely different- an average LS-speaker of the Lunenburg-area in Germany
is definitely unable to understand his LS-collegue from Groningen/Netherl.
spontaneously. They probably would understand each other much better if they
tried to do their conversations in German vs Dutch. If you might find this
too extreme let me add that I myself have great difficulties to understand
native LS-speakers of the Westfalian dialects.
So- what medium-dialect should we call Low Saxon worth to preserve it 'as
the leading, only one' for the future? Who should make a decision about it?
Should there be any scale of values I've never heard about before?

> It doesn't matter whether it's Welsh, Cornish, Hebrew, English,
> Icelandic, Low Saxon or even Esperanto, language constancy is something
> that just doesn't happen.
I'm just able to speak for LS, no matter if in Germany or The Netherlands.
I see the incredible fast loss of real Low Saxon vocabulary in favor of
'saxonised' words of the leading languages, e.g. Dutch and Standard German.
No- these words aren't really lost, but the mass of self-proclaimed
users are unable to use them any more.
If there are made interviews in Northern Germany asking people how familiar
they are with LS you'll hear very often: "Yes- I am!" But when you try to
talk with them, using the real and correct vocabulary you'll just hear:
"Hem? What? Kannitverstaan!"
A language giving up its vocabulary and its natural manifoldness is no
longer a living language but an artificial, 'dry' medium to communicate.
Yes- you could argue this should be the duty and aim of the schools, to make
pupils learn the vocabulary. But then you just solve one problem but not the
sum of them. And then you even didn't solve the conflict: which
vocabulary???

Just a little Ingvaeonic slang is not Low Saxon, for my opinion.

Perhaps we should turn the clock back to the time of Middle Low Saxon- that
could become a very interesting affair...

Best regards

Jonny Meibohm

•

==============================END===================================

 * Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.

 * Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.

 * Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.

 * Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l")

   are to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at

   http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.

*********************************************************************
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lowlands-l/attachments/20071008/5f9fc424/attachment.htm>