LL-L "Language politics" 2008.13.12 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 13 December 2008 - Volume 02
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From: Jorge Potter <jorgepot at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2008.12.12 (06) [E]

Dear Luc, Ron and the rest,



Please use truly international route numbers, instead of names



Jorge Potter

On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 6:09 PM, Lowlands-L List <lowlands.list at gmail.com>
wrote:

Here in Belgium, where traffic is dense and quite often transit, drivers can
easily get confused. One second, you're heading for Lille (big city in
Northern France), the next moment nothing but "Rijsel" on every
signpost...then Lille again. Or you think you're really driving to Aachen
(in Germany), but all of a sudden it seems you're wrong 'cause all you can
see is "Aix-la-Chappelle".

Now, on a highway, this isn't sooo bad, 'cause you usually have enough time
to figure out what's going on. If you're on ring road around a big city,
it's much more difficult (and dangerous!) to put too much information on a
signpost. Bear in mind that in Belgium, on a ring road, the distance between
two exits is usually very small. If you then overload every signpost with
redundant information, this will only confuse a foreign driver. Moreover,
the ring road of Brussels (R0) is partly Flemish, partly Walloonian and
partly Brussels territory. So if we want to be good students, we'd have to
label everything in Dutch, French and even Brussels dialect. Maybe even in
German, as it is also an official language in Belgium. But not in English, I
guess. Come on, we'd end up with signposts twice as high as those for Mac
Donalds *s*.

I advocate a different (European) rule for international traffic (that does
not take local sensitivities into account). Once, you're off the highway,
it's a totally different matter.

Kind greetings,

Luc Hellinckx

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From: Mike Wintzer <k9mw at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2008.12.11 (02) [E]

Dear Lowlanders,
Jonny informed us:
"The community of *'Großefehn'* in East Friesland/Germany decided to change
some Low Saxon street names *within a new commercial area* of their village
into Standard German because they experienced that customers and drivers of
any delivery services, who don't speak LS, have difficulties to find their
addressees. By the scandalised leader of the German 'Frisian Party' this
step is suspected to be against the spirit of the times - in other regions
of Northern Germany people try to add, sometimes to re-invent the Low Saxon
names of their locations."
This news revolts me!!
As it does revolt Paul who writes.
"What on Earth has speaking a language got to do with finding a street?!"

Who would support a collection of signatures
inside LLL and beyond?
Mike Wintzer

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From: M.-L. Lessing <marless at gmx.de>
Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2008.12.12 (05) [E]

I have come across such re-invented pseudo-plattdeutsch names several times
here around Hamborg; the names are often misspelled, but most times created
out of good will and a wish to cling to tradition. Sometimes authentic old
names are partly brought into high german, such as Moorrege
http://www.amt-moorrege.de/, which should be "Moorreeg". A sorry business
:-)



Season's greetings!



Marlou

From: Jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2008.12.11 (06) [E/German]

PS: Just as you try to stir fears of invented Low Laxon. I don't know no
single example of "re-invented" Low Saxon names. Please give examples.

I like to stir - both in people's minds as well as in a good 'Kehdinger
Hochzeits-Suppe' (a regional recipe of a soup from ox meat - cooked from
minimum one pound meat for each person!) ;-)!

But these really *are* my fears! Just remember 'Lüttensee' vs. 'Lütjensee'. Ein
Schildbürger-Verhalten, welches die ganze plattdeutsche Sache doch nur ins
Lächerliche zieht! (A behavior of fools suited to make the matter of our Low
Saxon ridiculous!)
DS


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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com
Subject: Language politics

Hi, Marlou!

You may be right in saying that "Moorrege" is a made-up name. But please
bear in mind that *Rege* (*reyge*) is in fact the earlier form of modern *
Reeg'* (*reyg'*) 'row' and that in many or most dialects *-e* deletion had
not yet occurred at the beginning of German language power encroachment in
the north. So, theoretically at least, the form "Moorrege" could have been
petrified as a Low Saxon loan in German.

This would be similar to the many Hamburg names that end with
*-twiete*'lane', which in Modern Low Saxon is
*Twiet*.

We have to be aware of the possibility of such names being *German*, not Low
Saxon, that they are early loans *from* Low Saxon.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

----------

From: Marcus Buck <list at marcusbuck.org>
Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2008.12.12 (05) [E]

From: Jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de <mailto:jonny.meibohm at arcor.de

>>



PS: Just as you try to stir fears of invented Low Laxon. I don't know no
single example of "re-invented" Low Saxon names. Please give examples.

I like to stir - both in people's minds as well as in a good 'Kehdinger
Hochzeits-Suppe' (a regional recipe of a soup from ox meat - cooked from
minimum one pound meat for each person!) ;-)!

But these really */are/* my fears! Just remember 'Lüttensee' vs. 'Lütjensee'.
Ein Schildbürger-Verhalten, welches die ganze plattdeutsche Sache doch nur
ins Lächerliche zieht! (A behavior of fools suited to make the matter of our
Low Saxon ridiculous!)

DS

But that's not an example of anything "invented". Low Saxon developed,
German conserves an outdated version of the former Low Saxon name.

Marcus Buck
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