LL-L "Phonology" 2008.06.11 (03) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 11 June 2008 - Volume 03
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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2008.06.11 (02) [E]

"The gobblidigook characters are due to you using the online interface."

So now it's my fault ?! For as long as I know, I've read and answered LLL
messages from the Archives, if that's what you mean, because I don't want
my mailbox to be filled with hundreds of emails everyday... from this and
other groups. And I'm not interested in all subjects either, so now I can
pick them.

As you mention Westphalian and Eastphalian, not having apocope, we come
back to "Language Varieties" of a couple of days ago, when I stated we
might rather speak of Low Saxon languages than of A Low Saxon langage.

Both "Phalians" could be seen (together) as such a LS language, different
from e.g. the Northern Low Saxon language, consisting of the dialects of
Hamburg, Bremen, Schleswig Holstein, Ost-Friesland etc. etc.

In the Netherlands, the Achterhoek (=East Gelderland) and Twente (=East
Overyssel) LS dialects, together with Germany's Westmünsterland and
Bentheim dialects, which I call "Hamaland LS"  can be seen as a transition
between the Phalian LS language and the dialects of the West Dutch Low
Saxon language of the Veluwe, Salland (= West Overyssel), South East
Drenthe and Stellingwarvian (S.E. Friesland). But one could also state
that this latter Western group is the transition to real Dutch dialects
already, because of the many features shared with Dutch such as oe [u:]
for oo [o:]/ ou [OU] in boek, ie [i:] for ee [e:], ei [EI] in niet, uu
[y:] for eu [2:] / ui [9Y] in gruun, uu [y] for oe [u] in uut, the lack
of 'du', e- in edaon for daon (Dutch gedaan) etc, verb order: dat ik bin
egaon for dat ik gaon bin. Something typically Franconian is "ou", "oe"
instead of "jou", "joe" you.

Central and South East Drenthe LS dialects (NL) can be seen as
transitional to yet another Low Saxon language, that of Groningen and
North Drenthe, to which the East Frisian dialects seem to belong as well.

Ingmar
From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Phonology

Ingmar,

My examples are limited to those North Saxon varieties that do have
apocope.
Even within this group there are those that do not have it, especially
those
at the geographic periphery. Most varieties of the Eastphalian and
Westphalian groups do not have apocope, the latter and the southwestern
North Saxon varieties bordering on those of most Low Saxon varieties of the
Netherlands, having been on a continuum with them.

This is quite consistent with what you wrote:

In Achterhoek, Veluwe, Salland, Stellingwarves, South Drenthe Low Saxon, -
e is not deleted. In Northern Drenthe, Groningen and (partly) Twente, it is

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

P.S.: The gobblidigook characters are due to you using the online
interface.

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Phonology

Ingmar:

So now it's my fault ?!

Did I say that? I think not. I was just pointing out to you and others
what's happening, that the archive submission interface has that drawback
when it comes to "special" characters.

The same applies to mail from accounts that process messages in HTML mode
with colors and various other bells and whistles.

Reinhard/Ron
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