LL-L "Etymology" 2009.12.02 (01) [EN]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 02 December 2009 - Volume 01
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From: Diederik Masure <didimasure at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2009.12.01 (05) [EN]

"Bedehuis" I have never seen in Dutch, although it is a valid compound I
think as we have "bedevaart" with bede- as first element, meaning
pilgrimage.

Similar to this though, modern Dutch has "gebedshuis" which can be a place
of worship of any undecided religion, but I'm not sure if this is an old
word or a rather modern one (i.e. if it predates the borrowing of "Kerk",
but I think it probably doesnt)

Diederik

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From: DAVID COWLEY <DavidCowley at anglesey.gov.uk>
 Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2009.12.01 (04) [EN]

Some thoughts towards the 'kirk' discussion:

On: ''Greek: εκκλησία (ekklēsía) > Latin: ecclesia''   and  '' κυριακή
(*kuriakē * "of the Lord")''

It may be that originally κυριακή was used for a building (- house of
the Lord ... > kirk/ church), and εκκλησία more for the idea of the
church as a body of people (in Christ) - it means 'those who have been
called out' or suchlike in Greek. There were plenty of Germanic contacts
with the Roman Empire both before and after Constantine's conversion and
the official adoption of Christianity (in the 300s), so it could be
expected that a name for the buildings seen by Germanic mercenaries and
others might then spread into Germanic speech well beyond the Roman
frontiers.

(By the way, εκκλησία at least has a very long history of use, being
found in the Greek Septuagint, the Old Testament translation made for
Greek-speaking jews before Christ's birth, and very often quoted in the
NT. This is the official OT of Eastern Orthodox Church. Terminology,
quotes and also readings make it more compatible with the NT than the
later Masoretic Hebrew text upon which most western OT translations are
based. Septuagint is often based on older Hebrew variants, some of which
were found in Dead Sea scrolls.)

Celtic Church and Eastern Christianity links:
Recall a reference somewhere to an Egyptian Saint's life from 500s/
600s, where there's an incidental mention of a trading ship sailing from
Alexandria to Britain. Also ref. in Irish annals to visiting Firr Gorm
('blue men' = black Africans), some of whom (I seem to recall) were
Ethiopian monks (also pictures of modern Ethiopian crosses, which often
have knotwork very like that found in Celtic countries). Eastern-based
Emperor Justinian may have funded trade with former areas of the Western
empire, and a fair bit of E. Mediterranean pottery has been found in W
British elite sites from the 500s to back this up.

The early Christian Church was largely Aramaic and Greek-speaking.
Greek was already the official tongue for the East of the Roman Empire,
and also became a key medium for Christian expression further afield.
Greek was quite widely spoken even in Rome, and it was only with time
that use of Latin came to predominate in the Western Church.
The survival of 'Eastern' (but maybe often better described as 'older')
Christian features in the Celtic areas was partly due to reduced
contacts with other churches after the end of the Western Empire. A
range of factors (including those connected to the rise of an ever-more
powerful and controlling Papacy, and innovations such as Augustine's
doctrine of Original Sin) helped hide the eastern origins of
Christianity in the West.
(On this original sin idea, I understand that when the British
scholar-monk Pelagius took Augustine of Hippo on about this in the East
in about 410 or so, he was not found to be heretical there, but
Augustine later got him condemned locally in the West, where his
mistaken, extreme take on human depravity has been a problem ever since.
Some of Pelagius' followers took things too far the other way. The East
had and often still has a more positive emphasis than Augustine. It is
fascinating to try to get behind our Western-oriented conditioning of
thought in connection with Christianity. Its easy to forget that for
Christian history, the East long played a much more significant role
than the West.)

On the Welsh name:  Betws y Coed (Betws is said 'bet-ooss', with short
'oo') - recall reading that its from Middle English 'Bedehus' = prayer
house/ chapel (so maybe not an older borrowing into Welsh). I think the
same word is in Old English too.

(Phonecian - this is a Semitic tongue very like Hebrew. Phonecian
script is the basis of Old Hebrew, Greek, Latin and thus our own
alphabets.)

•

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