LL-L "Anthems" 2009.02.14 (02) [E/LS]

Sat Feb 14 18:54:28 UTC 2009

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L O W L A N D S - L - 14 February 2009 - Volume 01
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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>

Subject: LL-L "Anthems" 2009.02.13 (04) [E]

The use of "God Save the Queen" as an English anthem at sporting events
irritates me. It was written as the anthem for the United Kingdom, and once
more it is England's job to be "British" and inclusive, while the other
coutries express their indvidual identity.  The only time we hear an
exception is in the Commonwealth Games, where nobody plays "God Save the
Queen", and England uses "Land of Hope and Glory", which I believe we should
always use.

In the Olympics, where the United Kingdom takes part (*not* Great Britain,
despite the use of the initials GB on the tables etc.), "God Save the Queen"
is reasonable - though note that after the UK's most successful Olympics
ever, Wales and Scotland held special receptions for their contributors.
Similar suggestions for England were dismissed as "divisive", or even
"fascist".

I haven't actually noted what happens in the case of Ireland. In football
(Soccer), Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic field their own teams. In
Rugby football in the Six Nations contest, there is a single Irish team
including players from Ulster.  I must take note of what they sing in each
case.

Paul

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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>

Subject: LL-L "Anthems" 2009.02.13 (05) [E]

From: Tom Mc Rae <thomas.mcrae at bigpond.com>
Subject: LL-L "Anthems" 2009.02.13 (04) [E]

....When someone from England has great success in some field the English
based media tend to hail this as a triumph for England.

A Scot does something of great merit it is usually a triumph for Britain.

Regards

Tom Mc Rae

Brisbane

AUSTRALIA

"Oh wad some power the Giftie gie us,

Tae see oorsels as ithers see us

Robert Burns

Hi Tom,

See my coment on Ron's post. I believe the exact opposite applies - as I
pointed out re Scotland and Wales singling out their Olympic athletes.

Tim Henman was *never* referred to as an English tennis player; Andy Murray
is frequently called a Scot.

Yes, there has long been a tendency to use "England" as almost synonymous
with "Britain" and even "United Kingdom", both within and without England,
but that hasn't aggrandised England, it has subsumed it. Wales has an
Assembly, Scotland a Parliament, Northern Ireland has a Parliament or not,
depending on who's talking to who on any given day of the week, but the
suggestion that England decide on English matters was denounced by (Scot)
Gordon Brown as "sowing the seeds of the death of the United Kingdom".

Good, RIP. I agree we couldn't have survived about 250 of the last 300 years
without the UK, but it has now outlived its usefulness.  And it was clearly
never intended to be a "Country", or it would have a proper name (what on
Earth is an UKoGBNI anyway?) and a proper flag rather than that curious
hybrid thing - which ignores Wales anyway.  But the individual names and
boundaries have been retained - except England has never been thought to
merit a separate status.

When polled, over 70% of English people want Independence, which is why our
disproportionately Scottish-dominated administration will never tolerate
even a sniff of the idea; as the country with the biggest population in the
Union, if we go, it's over - and they'll have to get a proper job.

Scandinavian countries work fine as independent cooperative neighbours, one
of which isn't even in the EU. We can manage the same.

Paul

Derby,

England

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Anthems

Dear Lowlanders,

God forbid I stir up the hornets' nest any further when I didn't intend to
stir it up in the first place with my "innocent" question about the states
of anthems on the lovely Isle of Britain. However, for whatever it's worth
coming from an outsider, albeit a genealogical relative and compassionate
fellow Lowlander, I have to say that I can at least somewhat see our Paul's
point and that I sympathize with his peeve (unless I misunderstood him).

If we try to distance ourselves from knee-jerk reactions and name-calling,
we should at least in theory understand that all the supposed problems,
disputes and misgivings would end if *all* of Britain's traditional
countries (and I'm ignoring the issue of Cornwall here) were recognized as
separate countries, and if this included England as a country as well. Under
the current circumstances these would probably form a close alliance, a
union within the European Union. If this would spell the beginning of the
end of the UK is really another matter. So what if it did? Would this stand
in the way of peace and close cooperation?

The way it is now -- all but England (and Cornwall) being sovereign nations
-- makes it seem, at least to me, that historical England has indeed been
morphed into being synonymous with "Britain" and "United Kingdom" with
Scotland and Wales as quasi autonomous regions having nominal country status
within this England > Britain/UK entity. This would be similar if Russia had
given up its discrete identity within the Soviet Union while most officially
non-Russian Soviet states had retained theirs. (And people did in fact treat
"Soviet Union" and Russia" as synonymous.)

I am sorry if I inadvertently stepped on toes and ruffled feathers and if I
came across as overly naive.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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From: Hannelore Hinz HanneHinz at t-online.de

Subject: LL-L "Anthems" 2009.02.13 (05) [E]

De Hymne  "Scotland the Brave" hett mien'n Nerv drapen un hett mi bannig
anrögt. Ick fäuhl de schöne Melodie so as de Minschen dat dor  in sick
dragen, ehr Leiw' för Heimat un Minschen un väl mihr noch.

Wunnerschöne "Interpretation". De Musik mit ehr  Instrumenten gifft' denn'
Song sien eigen Klüer.

(Oewer ein tau lang' Hymne gifft ok Probleme, wenn de von all' Minschen
sungen warden sall.)

Un liekers is dat swor, sick ein Mein oewer de välen Hymnen verlöwen, hett
doch jedet Land sien Traditschonen.

Mien Hochachten för all' de "Anthems".

Best' Gräuten.

Hanne

•

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