LL-L "Language diversity" 2009.02.23 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 23 February 2009 - Volume 01
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From: Tom Mc Rae <thomas.mcrae at bigpond.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language diversity" 2009.02.22 (05) [E]

On 23/02/2009, at 10:46 AM, James Wilson <jawi2300 at gmail.com> wrote:



'Many Scots who speak English do so with a Scottish accent.'

And inversely myAustralian  wife assures me, that  after over 30 years in
Australia, when I revert to Scots on visiting Edinburgh

I do so with an Australian accent I did not even know I had.



Regards

Tom Mc Rae

Brisbane

AUSTRALIA

"Oh wad some power the Giftie gie us,

Tae see oorsels as ithers see us

Robert Burns


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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Language diversity" 2009.02.22 (05) [E]

From: James Wilson <jawi2300 at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language diversity" 2009.02.22 (01) [E]



..To say that people with a regional dialect/language do not switch between
a regional to *standard *(surely you mean RP ;) form is just not correct...



Hi James,



No, I don't mean RP, I mean Standard English. A former colleague had a very
strong Northeast accent, but I never heard him use a single dialectial
expression.  He'd pronounce "our" something like "oor", but never said
"wor"; "go" had the long dipthongised vowel of Northumberland, but he never
said "gan".  He speaks Standard English, but not by any stretch of the
imagination does he use RP!



I asked him once if he ever used those words back home and his comment was
"Not anymore. It'd feel phoney".  That is what I mean by not being
bilingual.  Only one example I accept, but it illustrates what I mean.



AC/DC lead singer Brian Johnson has been described as having an "industrial
strength Geordie accent", but in interviews I've likewise never heard a
specifically Geordie word. Not least because, as you say, he probably wants
to be understood, but it would be interesting to know if he ever uses them.
Or indeed if he ever did.  I gather he lives in LA now, so I guess he
doesn't get to practice much!



The influence of regional accents on Standard English has greatly affected
what we think of as RP anyway. You won't hear the old BBC nasal "The cett
sett awn the mett" anymore, not even from people who actually used to speak
like that - the Queen for example!  Even North-South divisions in words like
"buck" and "book" have weakened, with a sort of "halfway" sound emerging in
many speakers.



(For the benefit of the uninitiated "buck" and "book" are pronounced
practically identically in many northern parts of England, whereas "buck" in
the South sounds almost like "back" in the North.  Confused yet?)



The class divisions of accents have eroded enormously, and I'm all for that,
but I find it increasingly difficult to tell where people are from these
days, which is sort of sad.  But it's our choice in the end, nobody's
forcing us, not anymore.



Paul


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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Language diversity" 2009.02.22 (01) [E]

---From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language diversity

Hey, Paul!

Not to contradict your basic argument, I need to add that the cases of
England and Switzerland are fundamentally different as far as I understand
them.

 Hi Ron,



As you explain, very different.  The political and social history (and
probably the rugged geography) of the Alemannic regions has favoured a
strong status of those languages.



I guess that's my point in a way; if the varieties, dialects and languages
of the British Isles are to have similar status or standing, it won't come
naturally as it did in those Alpine countries, it will require some sort of
concious effort, and a change in mind set, within and without those
regions.  Frankly, I can't see most people in any of the nations of Britain
being that bothered.  We're good at complaining, but don't have the best
track record when it comes to doing something about it!



Paul

Derby

England


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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language diversity

Thanks, Paul.

Topography may or may not be a factor. What I was trying to imply was that
in most cases of low prestige language problems the blame does in fact lie
in the court of the political authorities, usually going back a long time
and consequently maintained as *status quo* (such as in the educational
system).

The United Kingdom is in my opinion not an unusual case at all. Much rather,
it is Switzerland that is unusual in this regard and in several other
regards. My hunch is that this is due to the purpose and spirit of the
country's foundation. As an alliance without the usual "unity = uniformity"
ideal, it allowed for significant diversity, whereas in virtually all other
European countries the official ideal used to be "one country - one
ethnicity - one language".

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

•

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