LL-L "Technica" 2010.02.05 (01A) [EN]

Fri Feb 5 18:26:40 UTC 2010

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L O W L A N D S - L - 05 February 2010 - Volume 01
lowlands.list at gmail.com - http://lowlands-l.net/
Archive: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
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From: Marcus Buck <list at marcusbuck.org>
Subject: LL-L "Technica" 2010.02.04 (04) [EN]

About the encoding issues: I had a look at the HTTP headers of the
messages. The HTTP headers are a list with basic information about the
sent information. Like the envelope of a letter with address and
stuff. These headers are in text format and separated from the content
with a double line-break. In the Lowlands-l e-mails' headers I receive
there are _two_ double line breaks. The first one is before the
Content-Type and Content-Transfer-Encoding headers thus making the
Content-Type header (which specifies encoding) part of the message
instead of part of the headers. My e-mail program apparently is able
to fix this. I have to note that my spam filter alters the HTTP
headers so I'm not sure whether this superficial double line-break is
part of the original message, but if it is then this could be the
reason for the issues.

Marcus Buck

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From: Hellinckx Luc <luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Technica"

Beste Joachim,

You wrote:

> Am 04.02.2010, Ã‚ Reinhard/Ron scraif:
>
>     Question: Is there anyone here that uses a Mac and finds at least most "special" characters displayed correctly? If so, we might be able to find out more through him or her.
>
>
>
> Well, Ron,
>
> in the very most cases (between 90-97%) all messages, those with special characters included, are displayd correct on my Mac. There had been few exceptions, time ago.
>
> But I always have the message at the very end of the E-Mails:
>
> Warnung: Beim Dekodieren dieser Datei ist Opera auf Fehler gestoÃƒÆ’en.
> Warning: Decoding the file Opera (the mailing program I use for LL) has encountered errors.
>
> (As Ã‚ far as I remember, in Apple Mail I hadn't had this error message, only a mysterious rhombus character (with a ? in it), symbolizing I suppose "unidentified character" at the end of the real message before the usual end rows of the list.

It's the Apple-character: ï£¿

> Unfortunately I cannot copy the latter exactly from Apple Mail to Opera, it appears here as blank sqare:)

I can testify what Joachim writes above. There is absolutely no
problem with either Opera, Thunderbird or Entourage mailclients,
operating under Mac OS (regarding diacritics). Neither is there a
problem reading Lowlands mail on any browser.

It only gets troublesome when using Mail.app, the native mailclient from OSX.

Mind you, Mail.app has no problem showing me even the weirdest
diacritics in mail from anybody outside the Lowlands-mailing-list. It
just doesn't forgive the encoding errors that something or somebody
has made along the Lowlands-line. Maybe there's a Bavarian operator
hiding in a machine somewhere ;=).
Opera writes literally (in red characters):

    Warning: While decoding this file Opera encountered errors.

So there you have it...the other clients don't mind a leak or an error
here and there, whereas Apple is rather safe than sorry.

I strongly have the impression this is not at all a matter of setting
preferences on the client side. Like I wrote more than one year ago, I
rather think it has more to do with how content-transfer-encoding is
set by either Listserv or somebody high upstream.

Kind greetings,

Luc Hellinckx, Halle, Belgium

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From: "Joachim Kreimer-de Fries" <soz-red at jpberlin.de>
Subject: LL-L "Technica" 2010.02.05 (01) [EN]
Am 05.02.2010, 01:27 Uhr, hewwe ik - joachim - scriewen:

    (As  far as I remember, in Apple Mail I hadn't had this error
message, only a mysterious rhombus character (with a ? in it),
symbolizing I suppose "unidentified character" at the end of the real
message before the usual end rows of the list. Unfortunately I cannot
copy the latter exactly from Apple Mail to Opera, it appears here as
blank sqare:)

Allerbeste Reinhard & all,

another example of disfunctionality of the linguistlist.org and/or
LOWLANDS-L tecnical organization, I suppose. Where citing a part of
the genenel LL-L footer the rest of my message has been cut off.

Have it here (hopefully):

So, in general, I can read all what is written (exception: the very
mysterious characters in the footer of one member writing from india).

Nevertheless I'm not satisfied by the form how the messages appear
when I load them complete, because then the html formating is loaded,
too, i. e. the font-family and hight as prefigurated by the html-code
commands. Then I have to read the messages as they are formated by the
mechanisms of the server or the list administration.

But the *sans serif* font-family: arial,helvetica, makes it arduous
for me to read them (besides problems of not seeing the whole lines if
magnifying them for better reading). Might be that also the decoding
or display problems of others result from the html formating of the
messages.

I don't know wether it would be possible to change this to plain text,
so everybody can read the messages in the character style he/she has
opted to in his e-mail program.

Only recently I switched to html-encoding of my messages to LL-L
myself in order to have you seeing my messages in a serif character
stile and a reasonable character height (not in this message, though,
and so you will get it in the html-formating and sans serif character
style which is done when the messages are sent out to the list).

To end, dear Reinhard, as far there is the necessity, I'm ready to
give the information about how problem mails come out on Mac-OSX, if
needed. Or give advice how to get the utf8 characters displayd
correct.

For demonstration of the complications which might result from the
many relais switches (servers) a single e-mail has to go through, I
add below a part of the HTML encoding of Ron's posting to which I'm
responding hereâ€¦

Met echt-westfÅ“lsken Â»Goutgaun!Â«

joachim
Kreimer-de Fries
OsnabrÃ¼gge => Berlin-Pankow

Mac BacicTeX 2009 - TeXShop 2.29 / TeXworks 0.2.3
LyX 1.6.5 - MacBook Pro intel OSX 10.4.11 Tiger

------------------html code of Ron's Mail (partly) to which I am
responding here:-----------------------------

--0016e6d2625a865151047ecb1a70
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div style=3D"text-align: center; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>L =
O W L A N D S - L - 04 February 2010 - Volume 01<br style=3D"color: rgb(102=
, 102, 102);"><span style=3D"color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><a href=3D"mailto:=
lowlands.list at gmail.com">lowlands.list at gmail.com</a> - <a href=3D"http://lo=
wlands-l.net/">http://lowlands-l.net/</a></span><br style=3D"color: rgb(102=
, 102, 102);">

<span style=3D"color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Archive: <a href=3D"http://lists=
erv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html">http://listserv.linguistlist=
.org/archives/lowlands-l.html</a></span><br style=3D"color: rgb(102, 102, 1=
02);">

<span style=3D"color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Encoding: Unicode (UTF-08)</span=
<br style=3D"color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><span style=3D"color: rgb(102, 10=
2, 102);">Language Codes: <a href=3D"http://lowlands-l.net/codes.php">lowla=
nds-l.net/codes.php</a></span><br>

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br></div=
<br style=3D"font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font=
-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style=3D"font-fami=
ly: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class=3D"gI"><span class=3D"gD" style=3D"c=
olor: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Tom=C3=A1s =C3=93 C=C3=A1rthaigh</span> <span class=
=3D"go"><<a href=3D"mailto:tomasocarthaigh at yahoo.com">tomasocarthaigh at ya=
hoo.com</a>></span></span><br style=3D"font-family: arial,helvetica,sans=
-serif;">

<span style=3D"font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><s=
pan style=3D"font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class=3D"gI">LL-L &q=
uot;Technica" 2010.02.03 (04) [EN]<br><br></span><span style=3D"font-f=
amily: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Im on UTF08 on Yahoo and am getting gob=
beldygook as well</span><br style=3D"font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;">

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Technica

Thanks, guys.

I have to admit that I am still quite confused.

The culprit can't be GMail, I think.

For one thing, as an experiment, I am sending this issue off in plain
text rather than in HTML. (Joachim's example will come out the way he
sent it, though.) This means that no significant formatting is
possible. The setting is still Unicode.

Below is a string of "special" Roman characters (with diacritics and such):
Â¡ Â¢ Â£ Â¤ Â¥ Â¦ Â§ Â¨ Â© Âª Â« Â¬ Â¬ Â¬Â® Â¯ Â° Â± Â² Â³ Â´ Âµ Â¶ â€¢ Â¸ Â¹ Âº Â» Â¼ Â½ Â¾ Â¿ Ã€ Ã Ã‚ Ãƒ
Ã„ Ã… Ã† Ã‡ Ãˆ Ã‰ ÃŠ Ã‹ ÃŒ Ã ÃŽ Ã Ã Ã‘ Ã’ Ã“ Ã” Ã• Ã– Ã— Ã˜ Ã™ Ãš Ã› Ãœ Ã Ãž ÃŸ Ã  Ã¡ Ã¢ Ã£ Ã¤ Ã¥ Ã¦
Ã§ Ã¨ Ã© Ãª Ã« Ã¬ Ã Ã® Ã¯ Ã° Ã± Ã² Ã³ Ã´ Ãµ Ã¶ Ã· Ã¸ Ã¹ Ãº Ã» Ã¼ Ã½ Ã¾ Ã¿

Please let me know if you can read them.

Thanks.
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

•

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