From lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM  Mon Jul  1 15:46:20 2013
From: lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM (Lowlands-L)
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2013 08:46:20 -0700
Subject: LL-L "Administr=?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=8Bativia=22_?=2013.07.01 (01) [EN]
Message-ID: <MON.1.JUL.2013.084620.0700.>

=====================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L - 01 July 2013 - Volume 01
lowlands.list at gmail.com - http://lowlands-l.net/
 Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org
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 =====================================================

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>

Subject: Administrativia



[Please do read this, especially if you are new on board!]



Dear Lowlanders,



Welcome to Lowlands-L in the month of Julyy of 2013!


Welcome to the persons that joined us since the beginning of June 2013!
*Germany*:(*Deutschland, Düütschland, Düütsklound, Tjüschlönj, Tyskland,
   Nimska, Němska, Jermaniya*)*:*
        Lower Saxony (*Niedersachsen, Neddersassen, Läichsaksen*):
           Cologne (*Köln, **Kölle*) [1]
        North Rhine-Westphalia (*Nordrhein-Westfalen, Noodrhing-Wässfaale*
):
           Cologne (*Köln, **Kölle*) [1]
*United Kingdom* (*Ruwvaneth Unys, Deyrnas Unedig, Unitit Kinrick,
Rìoghachd Aonaichte,
*       *Ríocht Aontaithe, Reeriaght Unnaneysit, Phandlo Thagaripen*):
              England (*Pow Sows*):
                      Leicestershire:
                            Leicester [1]
 *United States of America:*
        Oregon:
             Portland [1]

 *Reminder*: This discussion forum deals with a number of languages,
cultures, etc. It is not possible to limit subscription to certain topics
(languages, cultures, etc.)

*SPECIAL LIST BUSINESS*



*Subject headers*

Some of you are still not following the subject header rule (see *Do not
mix topics* under Rules below). Here in brief:

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*List Mail v Private Mail*

 Folks, please make sure that you send private messages to me to my private
address (sassisch at yahoo.com), especially if they could be taken as
responses to what has been said in the forum. If you do not make this
distinction it could happen that your private message ends up posted to the
List. For administrative purposes, it's best if you use
lowlands.list at gmail.com.



*Rejected Mail*

Once in a while subscribers tell me that they receive List mail but that
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investigate this it turns out that a given subscriber has List mail
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address, and, forgetting this, they try to send posting submissions from
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*Language Codes*

In the subject line of each Lowlands-L issue you find language codes in
square brackets ([ ]). This indicates which language or languages are used
in that issue. I now use the ISO codes where available (and make up the
rest). I used to provide the key for the abbreviations in the masthead, but
that made for overly large mastheads. Instead, the masthead now contains
the URL of the page of the key:



lowlands-l.net/codes.php



You do not need to indicate the language varieties of you posting
proposals. In the rare event of me not knowing it I will ask you.



*Projects*

Please don't forget about our activities:



Anniversary (lowlands-l.net/anniversary/)

Gallery (lowlands-l.net/gallery/)

Travels (lowlands-l.net/travels/)

History (lowlands-l.net/history/)

Traditions (lowlands-l.net/traditions/)

Crypt (http://lowlands-l.net/crypt/) <http://lowlands-l.net/crypt/>

Beyond the Pale (lowlands-l.net/beyondthepale/)

Members' Resources (http://lowlands-l.net/resources/)

Resource guide (http://lowlands-l.net/rummage/)

Shop (http://lowlands-l.net/rummage/shops.php)



All of them have growing numbers of visitors.



If you have anything in mind for any of those presentations but lack
confidence for some reason or other, please bear in mind that assistance is
available. Please write to my private address or to our administrative
address (see above) to propose or ask and also to send your works.



If you want to order books, CDs, DVDs, or pretty much anything else from
Amazon (in the US even groceries!) you might as well do so via our
Lowlands-L shops (so far in Canada, Germany, France, Japan, UK and USA - (
http://lowlands-l.net/rummage/shops.php)) which have constantly changing
Lowlands-related selections. We (i.e. Lowlands-L) get a small percentage of
Amazon sales if you enter Amazon through these portals. Believe me: it
hardly pays a tiny fraction of the money I pay out of my own pocket to
bringing Lowlands-L to you, and I am not even counting the hours of work I
put into it.



*REGULAR LIST BUSINESS*



*Rules*

A few of you are still making three basic mistakes when submitting
postings. So here's a quick review:



*Do not mix topics.
*Many of you are still not following this rule. (Please see my note at the
top.)

Stay with the subject line (and don't add stuff to it) when you respond. It
is only when you start a new thread that you may suggest a subject line.

When you respond to someone's posting, please only quote the relevant
portion. If you allow an entire issue to dangle as a quote behind your
response I will remove it, even if your response does not make much sense
then.



Please consult the rules and guidelines: lowlands-l.net/rules.php



Another request:



Please inform me if you route LL-L issues to or via email addresses other
than those you subscribed. Right now, once again I am getting failure
reports concerning email addresses that are not subscribed. This is really
annoying, because I have no idea whose they are, so I can't do anything
about it.



*Membership*



As most of you know in the meantime, our email addresses are visible only
to subscribers. I hope this will encourage more of you to come forward and
participate in our discussions.


We send the postings in Unicode (UTF-8) format. You need to switch your
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You must credit the writers of anything you quote. "Lowlands-L wrote:"
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DO NOT SEND POSTING SUBMISSIONS IN CAPITAL LETTERS ONLY.


Many beginners, but also a few older hands, forget to provide their names
with their posting submission. Please remember that anonymous posting is
not an option, that you are obligated to give your given and family name,
even if you do not put them right next to each other.



Even some people who have been with us for a while persistently ignore the
following rules:

Keep subjects separate: Only one topic per posting! Don't mix things up,
please!

Stick to the subject title: Do not change the topic name in your responses.
Just stick with the one we have, even if you think it doesn't apply or is
silly. I will change it if I think it needs to be.


*Edit quotes:* If you hit the "reply" button and simply write your response
before or after an unedited, complete quoted LL-L issue, please do not
complain to me that I have removed the quoted text in the published
version. It is proper email behavior to quote only the portions that are
relevant to your response.


*Give credit:* Let us know who the authors of quoted text portions are. If
you just hit the "reply" button, it will automatically give "Lowlands-L" as
the author. That simply will not do. You must be more specific, and you owe
authors the courtesy of crediting them by name.



*Sign off:* If you feel like leaving the List, please do not send the
sign-off command to the posting address or to my personal address.



*Change of Address*

You do no longer need to sign off and on again if your email address
changes. It suffices if you send me (sassisch at yahoo.com) a message giving
us the old address and the new address. If you don't remember under which
address you were first subscribed, it will suffice if you give us only the
new address and your name.



*Temporary Absence*

   - Before you take a trip or for some other reason need to stop LL-L mail
   arriving for a given length of time, please write to us (
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   stopped and the date you want mail to be resumed. As some of our members
   can attest, this has been working really well. It certainly beats the old,
   crude method of signing off and on again.
   - Once in a while people find themselves unsubscribed without notice.
   Some of them immediately suspect the worst: that I have "booted them out"
   for some infraction or other. (I know this for sure only about those that
   contact me. But it happens again and again and involves even the nicest,
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   received prior reprimands and warnings (which happen very rarely, have not
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   - Sometimes the reason is that a subscriber's junk mail filter (or
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   - So, if Lowlands-L mail stops coming, please first check your "spam"
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   - Should you indeed be disconnected, please write to me or resubmit an
   application. I'll be more than happy to bring you swiftly back to the fold.

Again, dear Lowlanders, thanks for your support and cooperation and for all
those interesting contributions past and future!



Regards, Reinhard "Ron" F. Hahn
 Co-Founder& Chief Editor
Lowlands-L (lowlands-l.net)
sassisch at yahoo.com



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From lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM  Sat Jul  6 14:04:41 2013
From: lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM (Lowlands-L)
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2013 07:04:41 -0700
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2013.07.06 (01) [NDS]
Message-ID: <SAT.6.JUL.2013.070441.0700.>

=====================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L - 06 July 2013 - Volume 01
lowlands.list at gmail.com - http://lowlands-l.net/
 Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org
 Archive: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
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 =====================================================



From: Rebecca Breu <rebecca at rbreu.de>
 Subject: Vocabulary


Moin, Moin!

Ik heff anfungen, mal 'n beten wat op Platt to schrieven, man mi fehlt
so männichmal dat richtige Woort. Villicht köönt ji mi helpen?

Ik will to 'n Bispill 'n Kuss beschrieven, man ik weet nich, wo ik dat
angahn schall. Op Hoochdüütsch woor ik so Wöör bruken as
leidenschaftlich, stürmisch, begierig, ungestüm, usw., op Engelsch
passionate, eager, hungry, heady, usw., man wat segg ik op Platt? Dat
is ok swoor, Literatur to finnen, wo ik mi 'n beten wat afkieken kann,
wat Leevde un Romantik angeiht. Wenn een dor 'n Tipp vör mi hett, ik
bün sounso jümmers op Söök na wat ne'et to lesen. :)

Un wo seggt man, wenn een so 'n schöön Grienen hett, dat du ok glieks
grienen muttst? (Ein ansteckendes Lächeln/a contagious smile?)

Un 'n ganz anners Thema: Wo heet egentlich dat Deel vun 'n Fohrrad, wo
een sien Bagaasch op fastmaakt? (Gepäckträger/luggage rack?)

 Rebecca

----------


From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
 Subject: Lexicon

Moin un willkamen, beste Rebecca!

Reinhard/Ron
Co-Founder and Editor, Lowlands-L
Seattle, USA

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From lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM  Sat Jul  6 22:09:26 2013
From: lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM (Lowlands-L)
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2013 15:09:26 -0700
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2013.07.06 (02) [DE-NDS]
Message-ID: <SAT.6.JUL.2013.150926.0700.>

=====================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L - 06 July 2013 - Volume 02
lowlands.list at gmail.com - http://lowlands-l.net/
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From: Hannelore Hinz  <hannehinz at t-online.de> <hannehinz at t-online.de>
 Subject: Vocabulary

Gauden Dag ok Rebecca, Ron un all' Lowlanners!

Ick fang mal mit dat Küssen an.

Vörweg poetsch' wat ut  dat Versepos *"Kein Hüsung"*, wat Fritz Reuter
sotauseggen  mit Hartblaut schrewen hett.

*De Hewen blag, un dörch de Höh
gahn Wolkenschäp up stille See.
Dat is en Kuß, den'n hett de Hewen
de Ird in Leiw un Andacht gewen,
un dörch de Welt, dor klingt en Klang,
de hürt sick an as: Lewen! Lewen!
*
In ein oll' Leed:
*Juchhe, Hochtiet und Hochtiet is hüüt** *(Quelle: Haas, 33,S. 64)
kannst läsen in'n 1. Riemel/Vers:
*Juchhe, Hochtiet un Hochtiet is hüüt!
Kiekt de schmucke Bruut mol an
un den drallen Brüüdgamsmann,
wie se sick so herzig schnütern
un mit Füerogen klütern!
Schnütert, klütert frisch drup in,
Bruutlüüd möten lustig sien.

**küssen, *swv.,  küssen; snuteln, swv.; snütern, swv.; knuutschen, swv.:
Geknuutsche, n.; Snudelee/-lie, f.
Lit.: HOCHDEUTSCH PLATTDEUTSCHES WÖRTERBUCH - VERLAG SCHUSTER LEER.
*
**Kuß **Kuß *m., Pl. *Küss'; Syn  Buss *m., *Puss *m., *Säuten *m. *Phras  *
*Krichst 'n Säuten!
**küssen *wie hd.. *Syn **knuutschen, afknuutschen, aflappen, afpussen,
aflicken, einen upbrennen, 'n Säuten gäben, einen updrücken.
*Lit.: Neues hochdeutsches- plattdeutsches Wörterbuch
Renate Herrmann-Winter

*Kuß *m. Kuß: osculum 'ein Můndeken, Kuß':
Rdaa.: *Kuß ahn Boort hett kein Oort, Kuß mit Priem smeckt noch mal so fin*;
im Volksreim *O nee, o nee: O ja, o ja, min Musikus, du giffst, du giff**st
sonn' säuten Kuß.

**küssen *küssen; Abfertigungen: *ierst heff mi un denn küß mi!  Sei kann
sick küssen laten! Gah hen un küss de Katt. Wat de Leiw nich deit, säd' de
Snider, küßt den Zägenbuck mang de Hüürn; *übertr. vom Bezechten: *dei hett
dei oll Buddel tau oft küßt; *ebenso: *darf ick eins din Fründin küssen?
**Küsserdanz *m. Kußtanz, beliebter Volkstanz*.
Lit.: Wossidlo/Teuchert
* denn' kann ick up mien Quetschkomod spälen.

 ... nu heff ik mi woll ok 'n Säuten verdeint...

Ick wünsch alltohopen 'n sinnigen Sünndag.

Hanne



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From lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM  Mon Jul  8 01:02:16 2013
From: lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM (Lowlands-L)
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2013 18:02:16 -0700
Subject: LL-L "Media" 2013.07.07 (01) [EN-FY-NDS]
Message-ID: <SUN.7.JUL.2013.180216.0700.>

=====================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L - 07 July 2013 - Volume 01
lowlands.list at gmail.com - http://lowlands-l.net/
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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Media

Dear Lowlanders,
The following video presentation makes fun of the government line that
North Frisian language has its fair share of media representation in
Schleswig-Holstein (or elsewhere). Following that, there are two North
Frisian new articles. Most is in North Frisian, some in Low Saxon, with
German subtitles.

Please note that there are several North Frisian varieties, aside from East
and West Frisian varieties:
http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/frysk-info.php

More North Frisian to listen to:

Mainstream Mainland North Frisian:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDJiHSFvm_o
North Frisian and Low Saxon coexistence (also with German, Danish and
Southern Jutish):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1SSpn50aD0

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

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From lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM  Mon Jul  8 17:44:55 2013
From: lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM (Lowlands-L)
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2013 10:44:55 -0700
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2013.07.08 (01) [DE-NDS]
Message-ID: <MON.8.JUL.2013.104455.0700.>

=====================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L - 08 July 2013 - Volume 01
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From: Hannelore Hinz <hannehinz at t-online.de> <hannehinz at t-online.de>
 Subject: Lexicon

Nu mell ick mi all wedder...

Kiekt noch eins in bi " LL-L "Lexicon" 2013.07.06 (01) [NDS].
Rebecca  fragt' an "... Un 'n ganz anners Thema: Wo heet egentlich dat Deel
vun 'n Fohrrad, wo een sien Bagaasch op fastmaakt? (Gepäckträger/luggage
rack?)

Nu heff ick mi 'n Kopp makt, un bün de Fraag nahgahn:

Ein *luggage rack *is ein Gepäcknetz bi de Isenbahn. Hüt giwwt dat de woll
nich mihr.

Gepäckträger am Fahrrad  *rack, carrier*; to rack *aufstecken (Teile auf
ein Gestell) ?.
*Lit.: PONS Express Wörterbuch ENGLISCH.

Ji kœnt je mal besäuken:

www.Fahrrad.de <http://www.fahrrad.de/>http://www.duesselrad.de
Ick heff bether noch kein plattdüütsch Wuurt funn'n.
Gräuten.

Hanne

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From lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM  Tue Jul  9 21:00:03 2013
From: lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM (Lowlands-L)
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 14:00:03 -0700
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2013.07.09 (01) [DEEN]
Message-ID: <TUE.9.JUL.2013.140003.0700.>

=====================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L - 09 July 2013 - Volume 01
lowlands.list at gmail.com - http://lowlands-l.net/
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From: Hannelore Hinz <hannehinz at t-online.de> <hannehinz at t-online.de>
 Subject: Vocabulary

Un nu kümmt de Rest...

*Who laughs last, laughs best.*
Wer zuletzt lacht, lacht am besten.
Wecker tauletzt lacht, lacht an'n besten.

*We  doubled over with laughter listening to his stories.
*Bei seinen Geschichten lachten wir uns einen Ast.
Bi sien Geschichten lachten wi uns 'n Telg.
Lit.: IDIOMS Englische & Amerikanische Redewendungen.

*lächeln **Syn. **grienen, schmuustern, schmunzeln;
Spez *höhnisch, hämisch lächeln (grinsen)*, grifflachen, sik einen hœgen;

**lachen *wie hd. *Syn. **kåkeln, kichern, kucheln, gniddern, gnikkeln,
gluckern Spez* sehr laut lachen *krieschen, kreigen, juchen;
*fortwährend heftig lachen *sik dotlachen, sik scheif lachen, sik krank
lachen, sik wechlachen.

**lächerlich 1. *komisch wirkend, Ablehnung hervorrufend *Syn** quackelig,
trallig, twallig, appeldwatsch, appeldwalsch, figilant, kalwerig. -
**2. *verstärkend,
sehr *Syn **bannig, bös, dull.**
*Lit.: Renate Herrmann-Winter Neues hochdeutsch-plattdeutsches Wörterbuch
HINSTORFF.

*lachen *lachen *1. *Art und Umstände *a.*anschaulich beschreibend und
besondere Verhältnisse: *wenn he lacht, krigen de Uhren Besök; du lachst **œ
**wer 't ganz Gesicht un œwer 't halw is man Mod'; he lacht, dat em de Buk
bäwert;  Bräsig lachte mit Arm un Bein; *adv. Bestimmung: *gell lachen *hell
auflachen; im Vergleich, von Männern: *lachen as 'n Kobold, as 'n Kiwitt,
as ne Jungfer, as 'n Spitzbow* (nicht eig. volkstümlich); von Frauen: *lachen
as 'n Stieglitsch, as ne Lachduw, as ne Hawerzäg'; *mit Beziehung auf
einen, der lacht, ohne verstanden zu haben, warum die andern lachen: *dei
maakt 't as dei Nigendörper Kauhhierd', wenn dei Lüd' in 'n Dörp lachen,
lacht hei sick in 'n Busch ok; hei lacht mi nah dei Ogen rin; wer œwer uns
lacht, hett 'n groten Hals; wecker to lest lacht, de ok to best lacht. **b.
*Lachen und Weinen: *du kannst woll lachen, wenn anner Lüd' weinen*; *dee *(der
Wohlhabende) *kann sick vör Lachen nich bargen, wenn anner Lüd' de Ogen
œwergahn; se hett Lachen un Weinen in einen Pott*; vielfach; *dei kann
roren un lachen in einen Aten; noch wit vont Lachen, säd' de Brut, dor
huult se all.  *Unverstand: *Dummheit lacht.*
Zss.:* an-, be-, dal-, glim-, griff-, grim-, **jicher-, tau-, ter-,
utlachen;
*Wortbildung: *Gelach, Gelächel, Gelächter. -  *Mnd. *lachen.*

*Dit is sowat as ein Kostprauw** von Pe*rfesser Voßlo.

O hah, nu kam ick ok in't Lachen...

Hanne

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From lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM  Tue Jul  9 21:37:36 2013
From: lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM (Lowlands-L)
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 14:37:36 -0700
Subject: LL-L "Language acquisition" 2013.07.09 (02) [CY-EN]
Message-ID: <TUE.9.JUL.2013.143736.0700.>

=====================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L - 09 July 2013 - Volume 02
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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language acquisition

How to (not?) teach a foreign language (including English):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSNpNdFwkAQ

*Humo*(*u*)*r alert!*
Naughty language alert as well!

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

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From lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM  Thu Jul 11 03:41:29 2013
From: lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM (Lowlands-L)
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2013 20:41:29 -0700
Subject: LL-L "Language proficiency" 2013.07.10 (01) [EN]
Message-ID: <WED.10.JUL.2013.204129.0700.>

=====================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L - 10 July 2013 - Volume 01
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From: Roger Thijs <rogerthijs at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language acquisition" 2013.07.09 (02) [CY-EN]

I'm in (Y)ekaterinburg this week and surprised how poor the knowledge of
English here is. Even the lady at the tourist information desk at the
airport (Koltsovo) does not speak English.
The same holds for some restaurants. Fortunately some menu cards have
pictures of the main dishes.
At the event side some staff people have a badge "I speak English", but
asking them to explain how to drive to the airport is much too much asked
for (The exit of the exhibition area is only towards downtown and one
cannot u-turn on the motoway).
The Hertz car rental guy could not distinguish between the fee one pays for
the damage insurance and the franchise still to pay in case of an accident.
He charged me the franchise first in stead of the insurance fee.
Stupid me, I should have learned to speak Russian.
My Yahoo menu appeared in Russian here at first, but after a warning
against use of false identity, I could switch.
American websites (as Yahoo, Linkedin...) automatically give warnings when
one logs in from a Russian IP address.
I'm at Innoprom this week (http://www.innoprom.com/) and staying at the
Angelo airport hotel in Koltsovo.
Regards,
Roger

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From lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM  Fri Jul 19 04:26:22 2013
From: lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM (Lowlands-L)
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2013 21:26:22 -0700
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2013.07.18 (01) [EN]
Message-ID: <THU.18.JUL.2013.212622.0700.>

=====================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L - 18 July 2013 - Volume 01
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From: Tom Mc Rae <thomas.mcrae at bigpond.com>
Subject: LL-L Languge Convention

Delancey Place quoted the following from a book..

-- saying "please" and "thank you" is not a universal
custom -- there are societies such as the Inuit, where it is not the case.
In fact
it first took hold in Western society during the commercial revolution of
the sixteenth
and seventeenth centuries as evidence of the democratization of society --
our desire
to view everyone as equals. Before that, saying please and thank you was a
way to
show deference to a lord or master. "Thank you" derives from "think," and
it originally
meant, "I will remember what you did for me"-- and "please" is short for
"if you
please," "if it pleases you to do this":

Having lived in West Africa for 11 years I would question this statement.
The old Asante Twi language has "thank you" as 'Medassi" and "Thank you
very much" as Medassi Pi."
Further north in Ghana the early iron age Mossi Dagbaani tribes have
"M'pooseeya" or "Ta Puhyia".
English speaking Ghanaians ranging from pidgin to excellent will use
"Please" or "Pleesuh". I concede that some learned this at school
but it is also used by illiterates and appears to have evolved from their
local word for please.
 Best Regards

Tom Mc Rae
Brisbane Australia
Let every man be respected as an individual and no man idolised.
–Albert Einstein

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From lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM  Fri Jul 19 17:10:22 2013
From: lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM (Lowlands-L)
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 10:10:22 -0700
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatic=?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=8Ba=22_?=2013.07.19 (01) [EN]
Message-ID: <FRI.19.JUL.2013.101022.0700.>

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From: Mike Morgan <mwmbombay at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2013.07.18 (01) [EN]

Regarding please and thank you...

Tom Mc Rae notes:
> Delancey Place quoted the following from a book..
> -- saying "please" and "thank you" is not a universal
> custom -- there are societies such as the Inuit, where it is not the case.
> Having lived in West Africa for 11 years I would question this statement.
> The old Asante Twi language has "thank you" as 'Medassi" and "Thank you
> very much" as Medassi Pi." ...

I don't see the disagreement.  After all the statement "is not
universal" does NOT equate with "is universally absent"...

The fact that use of "please" and "thank you" may "equate" in some way
with "modern western values" does NOT mean that they may not ALSO
match well with certain (even many?) non-western non-"modern"
societies and languages.

Although I have some experience in other parts of the world (including
Horn of Africa and southern part of EAST Africa), mostly I can speak
with "authority" about Asia only... and in GENERAL (though not without
exception) usage of phrases translated (tanslatable?) as "please" and
"thank you" in a wide range of languages and societies has "migrated"
towards a Western (Euro-Amerfican) model over the years (i.e. MY
lifetime). The expressions (forms used) haven't much changed (except
as noted below) but the USAGE (significance) HAS.

Take Nepali. Like most modern Indic language there is a word धन्यबाद
/dhanyabaad/ which is usually given as the translation of "thank you".
AND, if you listen to mall-attendants and 3-star restaurant
waitpersonel usage (and also by clientelle of such establishments)
nowadays, you will get the impression that it is used EXACTLY as
(American) English "Thank you".

Note however,
1) धन्यबाद is NOT Nepali, it is not an inherited Indic word going
through the normal process of linguistic changes, it is a direct
borrowing from Sanskrit. I.e. it is a 'high-falootin'/high-culture
word. And using it "shows high culture" (whatever that is!)
2) It's use even by service personel and clientelle is NEW. When I was
first in Nepal 35 years ago, one would NEVER have heard someone being
served a meal they ordered replying with धन्यबाद ! UNTHINKABLE!
धन्यबाद was something I maybe might would have used if I owed my LIFE
to someone else (e.g. if I had lost my passport AND all my cash on the
road and a Nepali had picked it up and come running after
absent-minded me to RETURN it, THEN I would certainly have said
धन्यबाद... and probab;ly fallen down, prostrating myself at to his
feet!!).
In the old days , IF ANYTHING was said, the exchange would have gone
something like this:
Wait person: लिनुस्  /linus/ (take it)
Me: ल  /la/ (ok)

There is nothing LESS polite in this... it is just a different
culture... a culture less "contaminated" by Western ways.

AND in a way it is a cheapening... after all, if someone saves my life
or if they serve me a coke, all I can do is give the SAME reply....

PS. Mumbai/Bombay NOTE
A similar development (evolution) has taken place in India also...
Though at least in Mumbai (and much of Urban india) there is STILL a
risistance among educated to equate Indic धन्यवाद /dhanyavaad/ with
"thankyou... and so in Mumbai Marathi and Gujarati and Hindi, the
tendency is to use थेंक्स /thenks/ (aspirated /t/ NOT dental fricative
/θ/

Note also that in Hindi there is the option of using Urdu /shukria/ for
"thanks"

ALSO
as far as I can think, there is STILL no equivalent for please in
Nepali ... except the borrowed Hindi कृपाया /krpaya/
we just use the appropriate verb form (imnperative, etc)... and cna
"soften" (or intensify it!) it if needed by the addition of a sentence
final partical (several options available)

 my 8 anna's worth!

mwm || *U*C> || mike || माईक || мика || マイク (aka Dr Michael W Morgan)
sign language linguist / linguistic typologist
academic adviser, Nepal Sign Language Training and Research
NDFN, Kathmandu, Nepal

----------
 From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2013.07.18 (01) [EN]

My nephew lives in Finland (his wife is Finnish) and their kids are
completely bilingual. But they have to keep reminding the kids to say
please and thank you when speaking English, as it's not an automatic
response in Finnish.
Paul
Derby
England


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From lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM  Mon Jul 22 17:38:14 2013
From: lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM (Lowlands-L)
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 10:38:14 -0700
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatic=?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=8Ba=22_?=2013.07.22 (01) [EN]
Message-ID: <MON.22.JUL.2013.103814.0700.>

=====================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L - 22 July 2013 - Volume 01
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From: Roger Thijs <rogerthijs at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2013.07.18 (01) [EN]

>  *From:* Lowlands-L lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM
> *Sent:* Friday, July 19, 2013 6:26 AM

> From: Tom Mc Rae <thomas.mcrae at bigpond.com>
> Subject: LL-L Languge Convention

> Delancey Place quoted the following from a book..
> -- saying "please" and "thank you" is not a universal custom --

In my Lonerland Limburgish from Vliermaal:

For "please":
The common or rather impolite form:
"dè" a kind of vocative form of "doeë" = in Dutch "daar"
"dè" comes close to the Dutch "ziedaar";
similar to the French "voilà", that still sounds polite when one complètes
as "voilà Madame", "voilà Monsieur".

The polite form:
asteblif (Dutch: alstublieft, if it to you pleases) for both singular as
plural
generally also completed as "asteblif meneer", "asteblif madam" "asteblif
mammezel" (= mademoiselle).
Young guys become immediately "meneer", while young ladies, especially when
not married, pass trough an intermediate state of "mammezel".

For "thank you:
"mèrseej" (cf. the French "mersi";
it is not uncommon to diphtongize ending e or i vowels as well in East
Walloon as in Southern Limburgish.

When offering food, one adds generally:
"Lut het oech smoake" ("lut" is the imperative form of "loeëte", Dutch
"laten")
"Oech" sounds similar to "euch" in German, but it is used in both singular
as plural, so as "u" can be used for both in Dutch.

When offering drinks:
"Sonteej" not nazalized in Vliermaal, it is nazalized though by some in
Tongeren 5 miles to the South (cf. French "Santé" nazalized)

Regards,
Roger

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From lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM  Mon Jul 29 01:06:35 2013
From: lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM (Lowlands-L)
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2013 18:06:35 -0700
Subject: LL-L "Travels" 2013.07.28 (01) [EN]
Message-ID: <SUN.28.JUL.2013.180635.0700.>

=====================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L - 28 July 2013 - Volume 01
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From: Roger Thijs <rogerthijs at yahoo.com>
Subject:  LL-L Travel

We had some exchanges on travel in this group before. Let's see if it is
still active.

I'm looking for suggestions
I'm participating at a conference of the IEEE in Vancouver on Sept. 11-13.
I'm staying at the Delta, 550 West Hastings
The conference is across the street in the Harbour Centre. (I would rather
write Harbor Center, but the Canadians .....)

I arrive on Sept 9 in the evening.
So I have the 10th for visiting Vancouver (+ jetlag recup).
Suggesstions are welcome.

I'm returning home, leaving on Sept 15 in the morning.
On the 14th I take a trip to Seattle:
Amtrak Cascades 6:40 am -> 11:05 am
and back 6:50 pm -> 10:50 pm
I reserved for Underground Seattle at 12 pm.
I don't know how long that tour will take.

Thanks ahead for all good advice.

Regards,
Roger
----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Travels

Hi, Roger!

What wonderful news about you visiting our area again!

I'm sure other people have more information than I do.

Let me just say that I've spent a lot of time in
Vancouver<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZvbVzIMQbw>(BC, Canada),
and it's one of my favorite cities. It's one of the closes
North America has to a "European city". Robson Street in downtown, all the
way up to English Bay. (Part of that street is known as Robsonstraße,
because that neighborhood used to be home to many German immigrants. For
people-watching, I recommend Granville Island with its artist studios,
theater and a terrific market.

There's good East Asian food in Vancouver (being North America's "sushi
capital"). If you like good, affordable Chinese food, eat at Hon's on
Keefer Street in Chinatown (not the one in downtown!). Also try the French
Canadian signature dish *poutine <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poutine>*.
You as a Belgian might actually enjoy it (while I am not too sure about it
...)

I believe the tour of Seattle's
underground<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1SKA6TasD4>takes about
one hour. (Careful! The place is said to be haunted ...)  I'm
not yet sure what my teaching schedule will be like, but, if you have the
time, I'd love to have lunch of dinner with you somewhere. It would be
really nice to see you again.

Let's communicate about the details of that privately.

Best regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA


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From lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM  Mon Jul 29 17:23:36 2013
From: lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM (Lowlands-L)
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 10:23:36 -0700
Subject: LL-L "Travels" 2013.07.29 (01) [EN]
Message-ID: <MON.29.JUL.2013.102336.0700.>

=====================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L - 29 July 2013 - Volume 01
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From: Pat Reynolds <pat at caerlas.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Travels" 2013.07.28 (01) [EN]

We had some exchanges on travel in this group before. Let's see if it is
still active

Roger Thijs <rogerthijs at yahoo.com>
wrote .....



We had some exchanges on travel in this group before. Let's see if it is
still active.



I'm looking for suggestions

I'm participating at a conference of the IEEE in Vancouver on Sept.
11-13.....



Hi Roger,



It is a long time since I was in Vancouver (over 20 years), and then
Stanley Park and the Anthropological Museum were the things I’d return to.
It was also a nice city to wander in.  The only downside for me was that
the plane descended very rapidly, which upset my hearing/balance for the
first couple of days.



Cheers,



Pat



Pat Reynolds

Settling in to a new job, working for the Heritage Crafts Association (
www.heritagerafts.org.uk)


----------

From: Jacqueline Bungenberg de Jong <Dutchmatters at comcast.net>
Subject: LL-L "Travels" 2013.07.28 (01) [EN]


To Roger, in reply to your going to Vancouver.****

It is a wonderfully civilized city. Of all the things to do in Vancouver,
three stand out:****

1.The Anthropological Museum at UBC. A most interesting collection of
artifacts and works of art of the local tribes before the white man took
their indigenous life away. Their collection of totempoles is fantastic.
But they also have art by modern Indian artists that makes your jaw drop.***
*

2. The authentic Chinese garden of Dr. Sun Yat Sen. It transports you in
the dream world of a Chinese scholar from the end of the end of the
19thcentury. Make sure that you buy tea at their tea shop!  It is
unfortunate
that the neighborhood is a little bit unkemped, but the gardens and the
study are absolutely worth it.****

3. For just mindless enjoyment ( yes, I know about those meetings ) I would
suggest you amble over to the Aquarium and spend time with the fishes, and
the aquatic mammals and do not forget to go visit the rainforest in the
belly of the aquarium. You’ll come out a better person; guaranteed.****

Jacqueline BdJ****

Seattle WA  USA (across the border) ****

----------

From: Isaac M. Davis <isaacmacdonalddavis at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Travels" 2013.07.28 (01) [EN]


For poutine, I recommend Frenchies Diner on Dunsmuir (speaking as a former
resident of Vancouver and a current resident of Montréal). Bon appétit!

Regards,

Isaac M. Davis


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From lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM  Tue Jul 30 00:07:26 2013
From: lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM (Lowlands-L)
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 17:07:26 -0700
Subject: LL-L "Travels" 2013.07.29 (02) [EN]
Message-ID: <MON.29.JUL.2013.170726.0700.>

=====================================================

L O W L A N D S - L - 29 July 2013 - Volume 02

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From: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding at wlandres.net>
Subject: LL-L "Travels" 2013.07.29 (01) [EN]



> From: Pat Reynolds <pat at caerlas.co.uk>
> Subject: LL-L "Travels" 2013.07.28 (01) [EN]
>
> Roger Thijs <rogerthijs at yahoo.com>
> wrote .....
>
> We had some exchanges on travel in this group before. Let's see if
> it is still active.
>
> I'm looking for suggestions
>
> I'm participating at a conference of the IEEE in Vancouver on Sept.
> 11-13.....
>
> Hi Roger,
> It is a long time since I was in Vancouver (over 20 years), and then
> Stanley Park and the Anthropological Museum were the things I'd
> return to.
> It was also a nice city to wander in.  The only downside for me was
> that the plane descended very rapidly, which upset my hearing/balance
> for the first couple of days.
>
> Cheers,
> Pat
>
> Pat Reynolds
> Settling in to a new job, working for the Heritage Crafts Association
> ( www.heritagerafts.org.uk )

Pat:
heritagerafts are just what you need for making a tour round Vancouver
Island!

Best wishes to all,
Ted.
PS: Written within 20 miles of King's Lynn, England -- anciently
a major Hanseatic port, and birthplace of Captain George Vancouver
who explored and mapped that part of the Pacific coast in the 1790s,
and whose name is attached to many places.

> [remainder snipped]
> ----------

-------------------------------------------------
E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding at wlandres.net>
Date: 29-Jul-2013  Time: 19:07:23
This message was sent by XFMail
-------------------------------------------------

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From lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM  Tue Jul 30 18:25:42 2013
From: lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM (Lowlands-L)
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 11:25:42 -0700
Subject: LL-L "Literature" 2013.07.30 (01) [NDS]
Message-ID: <TUE.30.JUL.2013.112542.0700.>

=====================================================

L O W L A N D S - L - 30 July 2013 - Volume 01

lowlands.list at gmail.com - http://lowlands-l.net/

Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org

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From: Hannelore Hinz <hannehinz at t-online.de> <hannehinz at t-online.de>
 Subject: Literature (Autorin. H. Hinz)

            *Austmaand

*    Hoch tellt de Austtied as ein Fest,
    un ripte Sünn dat Kuurn up't best,
    mit Freud is Austarbeit rasch dahn,
    nu heit dat, an de Austkron ran;
    wi binnen sei mit Lief un Sääl;
    tau Austköst smück sei de Schündääl.

    Löt Austmaand uns mit Hundsdag' sweiten,
    ok dat will'n wi noch dägt geneiten.
    Man, wenn noch eins de Kukuk röppt,
    so hart uns nahst de Winter dröppt.
    Väl Dau möt sien, hei bringt kein Not,
    wi hebben stolt dat däglich Brot.

    Sünd Lorenz (10.), Bartelmeis (24.) ok gaud,
    denn kümmt de Harwst mit Sünn'nmaud.
    Un œwer uns an'n wieden Häben
    Twästiert sien Jungvœgel hoch swäben.
    De Sommertied wäwt lies' ehr Enn';
    bald ward de Sünn sick wedder wenn'.

    Twälstiert: Roter Milan

Mit ein hartlich Gräuten.

Hanne Hinz


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From lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM  Tue Jul 30 18:29:22 2013
From: lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM (Lowlands-L)
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 11:29:22 -0700
Subject: LL-L "Travels" 2013.07.30 (02) [EN]
Message-ID: <TUE.30.JUL.2013.112922.0700.>

=====================================================

L O W L A N D S - L - 30 July 2013 - Volume 02

lowlands.list at gmail.com - http://lowlands-l.net/

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=====================================================


From: Roger Thijs <rogerthijs at yahoo.com>
Subject:  Re: LL-L "Travels" 2013.07.29 (02) [EN]

> From: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding at wlandres.net>
> Subject: LL-L "Travels" 2013.07.29 (01) [EN]
> ...;heritagerafts are just what you need for making a tour round
Vancouver  Island!

Thanks to all for the suggestions.

A couple of things:

1 - The Vancouver family is supposed to have Dutch origins:
quote: There has been some debate about the origins of the Vancouver name.
It is now commonly accepted that the name Vancouver derives from the
expression van Coevorden, meaning "(originating) from Coevorden", a city in
the northeast of the Netherlands. This city is apparently named after the
"Coeverden" family of the 13 – 15th century. An alternative theory is that
Vancouver is a misspelling or anglicized version of Van Couwen, a Dutch
name.
quoted from:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Vancouver

2 - Vancouver gives me nightmares.
I have been driving up to there for an exhibition a couple of years ago,
while staying in Bellingham WA (after a visit to Boeing in Everett).
My Hertz "Never Lost" guided me to the middle of nowhere in a hilly suburb.
I found a commercial street and I stopped for lunch at a Laotian restaurant.
The meat was served in a bowl of red soup. Some meat fell of the fork,
splashing my shirt with the red fluid.
My spare clothes were left in the hotel in Bellingham, but fortunately I
could buy a shirt in a Pakistanese shop in that street.
Anyhow, in the afternoon I still came to make a tour of the exhibition in
the expo centre, downtown at the harbour.

3 - I got poutine coming out of my ears when being in Montreal for a week
last year.
I was staying in the Fairmont above the underground railway station, having
a lot of eateries underground.
Actually I don't like the sweet ketchup tasting sauce, nor the cheese blocs
on my fries.
And further I think it is a bomb of calories.

4 - I made some jokes about poutine at the booth of Canada at the Innoprom
exhibition in Ekaterinburg a couple of weeks ago.
The staffing actually was not Canadian (none of them understood French).
They had contracted the thing to a Russian governmental service.
And these guys had a different taste of humor.

Regards,
Roger


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From lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM  Mon Jul  1 15:46:20 2013
From: lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM (Lowlands-L)
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2013 08:46:20 -0700
Subject: LL-L "Administr=?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=8Bativia=22_?=2013.07.01 (01) [EN]
Message-ID: <MON.1.JUL.2013.084620.0700.>

=====================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L - 01 July 2013 - Volume 01
lowlands.list at gmail.com - http://lowlands-l.net/
 Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org
 Archive: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
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 =====================================================

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>

Subject: Administrativia



[Please do read this, especially if you are new on board!]



Dear Lowlanders,



Welcome to Lowlands-L in the month of Julyy of 2013!


Welcome to the persons that joined us since the beginning of June 2013!
*Germany*:(*Deutschland, D??tschland, D??tsklound, Tj?schl?nj, Tyskland,
   Nimska, N?mska, Jermaniya*)*:*
        Lower Saxony (*Niedersachsen, Neddersassen, L?ichsaksen*):
           Cologne (*K?ln, **K?lle*) [1]
        North Rhine-Westphalia (*Nordrhein-Westfalen, Noodrhing-W?ssfaale*
):
           Cologne (*K?ln, **K?lle*) [1]
*United Kingdom* (*Ruwvaneth Unys, Deyrnas Unedig, Unitit Kinrick,
R?oghachd Aonaichte,
*       *R?ocht Aontaithe, Reeriaght Unnaneysit, Phandlo Thagaripen*):
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*SPECIAL LIST BUSINESS*



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Some of you are still not following the subject header rule (see *Do not
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lowlands-l.net/codes.php



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All of them have growing numbers of visitors.



If you have anything in mind for any of those presentations but lack
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Please consult the rules and guidelines: lowlands-l.net/rules.php



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Again, dear Lowlanders, thanks for your support and cooperation and for all
those interesting contributions past and future!



Regards, Reinhard "Ron" F. Hahn
 Co-Founder& Chief Editor
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sassisch at yahoo.com



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From lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM  Sat Jul  6 14:04:41 2013
From: lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM (Lowlands-L)
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2013 07:04:41 -0700
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2013.07.06 (01) [NDS]
Message-ID: <SAT.6.JUL.2013.070441.0700.>

=====================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L - 06 July 2013 - Volume 01
lowlands.list at gmail.com - http://lowlands-l.net/
 Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org
 Archive: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
 Encoding: Unicode (UTF-08)
Language Codes: lowlands-l.net/codes.php
 =====================================================



From: Rebecca Breu <rebecca at rbreu.de>
 Subject: Vocabulary


Moin, Moin!

Ik heff anfungen, mal 'n beten wat op Platt to schrieven, man mi fehlt
so m?nnichmal dat richtige Woort. Villicht k??nt ji mi helpen?

Ik will to 'n Bispill 'n Kuss beschrieven, man ik weet nich, wo ik dat
angahn schall. Op Hoochd??tsch woor ik so W??r bruken as
leidenschaftlich, st?rmisch, begierig, ungest?m, usw., op Engelsch
passionate, eager, hungry, heady, usw., man wat segg ik op Platt? Dat
is ok swoor, Literatur to finnen, wo ik mi 'n beten wat afkieken kann,
wat Leevde un Romantik angeiht. Wenn een dor 'n Tipp v?r mi hett, ik
b?n sounso j?mmers op S??k na wat ne'et to lesen. :)

Un wo seggt man, wenn een so 'n sch??n Grienen hett, dat du ok glieks
grienen muttst? (Ein ansteckendes L?cheln/a contagious smile?)

Un 'n ganz anners Thema: Wo heet egentlich dat Deel vun 'n Fohrrad, wo
een sien Bagaasch op fastmaakt? (Gep?cktr?ger/luggage rack?)

 Rebecca

----------


From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
 Subject: Lexicon

Moin un willkamen, beste Rebecca!

Reinhard/Ron
Co-Founder and Editor, Lowlands-L
Seattle, USA

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From lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM  Sat Jul  6 22:09:26 2013
From: lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM (Lowlands-L)
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2013 15:09:26 -0700
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2013.07.06 (02) [DE-NDS]
Message-ID: <SAT.6.JUL.2013.150926.0700.>

=====================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L - 06 July 2013 - Volume 02
lowlands.list at gmail.com - http://lowlands-l.net/
 Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org
 Archive: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
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From: Hannelore Hinz  <hannehinz at t-online.de> <hannehinz at t-online.de>
 Subject: Vocabulary

Gauden Dag ok Rebecca, Ron un all' Lowlanners!

Ick fang mal mit dat K?ssen an.

V?rweg poetsch' wat ut  dat Versepos *"Kein H?sung"*, wat Fritz Reuter
sotauseggen  mit Hartblaut schrewen hett.

*De Hewen blag, un d?rch de H?h
gahn Wolkensch?p up stille See.
Dat is en Ku?, den'n hett de Hewen
de Ird in Leiw un Andacht gewen,
un d?rch de Welt, dor klingt en Klang,
de h?rt sick an as: Lewen! Lewen!
*
In ein oll' Leed:
*Juchhe, Hochtiet und Hochtiet is h??t** *(Quelle: Haas, 33,S. 64)
kannst l?sen in'n 1. Riemel/Vers:
*Juchhe, Hochtiet un Hochtiet is h??t!
Kiekt de schmucke Bruut mol an
un den drallen Br??dgamsmann,
wie se sick so herzig schn?tern
un mit F?erogen kl?tern!
Schn?tert, kl?tert frisch drup in,
Bruutl??d m?ten lustig sien.

**k?ssen, *swv.,  k?ssen; snuteln, swv.; sn?tern, swv.; knuutschen, swv.:
Geknuutsche, n.; Snudelee/-lie, f.
Lit.: HOCHDEUTSCH PLATTDEUTSCHES W?RTERBUCH - VERLAG SCHUSTER LEER.
*
**Ku? **Ku? *m., Pl. *K?ss'; Syn  Buss *m., *Puss *m., *S?uten *m. *Phras  *
*Krichst 'n S?uten!
**k?ssen *wie hd.. *Syn **knuutschen, afknuutschen, aflappen, afpussen,
aflicken, einen upbrennen, 'n S?uten g?ben, einen updr?cken.
*Lit.: Neues hochdeutsches- plattdeutsches W?rterbuch
Renate Herrmann-Winter

*Ku? *m. Ku?: osculum 'ein M?ndeken, Ku?':
Rdaa.: *Ku? ahn Boort hett kein Oort, Ku? mit Priem smeckt noch mal so fin*;
im Volksreim *O nee, o nee: O ja, o ja, min Musikus, du giffst, du giff**st
sonn' s?uten Ku?.

**k?ssen *k?ssen; Abfertigungen: *ierst heff mi un denn k?? mi!  Sei kann
sick k?ssen laten! Gah hen un k?ss de Katt. Wat de Leiw nich deit, s?d' de
Snider, k??t den Z?genbuck mang de H??rn; *?bertr. vom Bezechten: *dei hett
dei oll Buddel tau oft k??t; *ebenso: *darf ick eins din Fr?ndin k?ssen?
**K?sserdanz *m. Ku?tanz, beliebter Volkstanz*.
Lit.: Wossidlo/Teuchert
* denn' kann ick up mien Quetschkomod sp?len.

 ... nu heff ik mi woll ok 'n S?uten verdeint...

Ick w?nsch alltohopen 'n sinnigen S?nndag.

Hanne



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From lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM  Mon Jul  8 01:02:16 2013
From: lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM (Lowlands-L)
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2013 18:02:16 -0700
Subject: LL-L "Media" 2013.07.07 (01) [EN-FY-NDS]
Message-ID: <SUN.7.JUL.2013.180216.0700.>

=====================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L - 07 July 2013 - Volume 01
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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Media

Dear Lowlanders,
The following video presentation makes fun of the government line that
North Frisian language has its fair share of media representation in
Schleswig-Holstein (or elsewhere). Following that, there are two North
Frisian new articles. Most is in North Frisian, some in Low Saxon, with
German subtitles.

Please note that there are several North Frisian varieties, aside from East
and West Frisian varieties:
http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/frysk-info.php

More North Frisian to listen to:

Mainstream Mainland North Frisian:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDJiHSFvm_o
North Frisian and Low Saxon coexistence (also with German, Danish and
Southern Jutish):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1SSpn50aD0

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

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From lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM  Mon Jul  8 17:44:55 2013
From: lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM (Lowlands-L)
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2013 10:44:55 -0700
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2013.07.08 (01) [DE-NDS]
Message-ID: <MON.8.JUL.2013.104455.0700.>

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 L O W L A N D S - L - 08 July 2013 - Volume 01
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From: Hannelore Hinz <hannehinz at t-online.de> <hannehinz at t-online.de>
 Subject: Lexicon

Nu mell ick mi all wedder...

Kiekt noch eins in bi " LL-L "Lexicon" 2013.07.06 (01) [NDS].
Rebecca  fragt' an "... Un 'n ganz anners Thema: Wo heet egentlich dat Deel
vun 'n Fohrrad, wo een sien Bagaasch op fastmaakt? (Gep?cktr?ger/luggage
rack?)

Nu heff ick mi 'n Kopp makt, un b?n de Fraag nahgahn:

Ein *luggage rack *is ein Gep?cknetz bi de Isenbahn. H?t giwwt dat de woll
nich mihr.

Gep?cktr?ger am Fahrrad  *rack, carrier*; to rack *aufstecken (Teile auf
ein Gestell) ?.
*Lit.: PONS Express W?rterbuch ENGLISCH.

Ji k?nt je mal bes?uken:

www.Fahrrad.de <http://www.fahrrad.de/>http://www.duesselrad.de
Ick heff bether noch kein plattd??tsch Wuurt funn'n.
Gr?uten.

Hanne

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From lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM  Tue Jul  9 21:00:03 2013
From: lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM (Lowlands-L)
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 14:00:03 -0700
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2013.07.09 (01) [DEEN]
Message-ID: <TUE.9.JUL.2013.140003.0700.>

=====================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L - 09 July 2013 - Volume 01
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From: Hannelore Hinz <hannehinz at t-online.de> <hannehinz at t-online.de>
 Subject: Vocabulary

Un nu k?mmt de Rest...

*Who laughs last, laughs best.*
Wer zuletzt lacht, lacht am besten.
Wecker tauletzt lacht, lacht an'n besten.

*We  doubled over with laughter listening to his stories.
*Bei seinen Geschichten lachten wir uns einen Ast.
Bi sien Geschichten lachten wi uns 'n Telg.
Lit.: IDIOMS Englische & Amerikanische Redewendungen.

*l?cheln **Syn. **grienen, schmuustern, schmunzeln;
Spez *h?hnisch, h?misch l?cheln (grinsen)*, grifflachen, sik einen h?gen;

**lachen *wie hd. *Syn. **k?keln, kichern, kucheln, gniddern, gnikkeln,
gluckern Spez* sehr laut lachen *krieschen, kreigen, juchen;
*fortw?hrend heftig lachen *sik dotlachen, sik scheif lachen, sik krank
lachen, sik wechlachen.

**l?cherlich 1. *komisch wirkend, Ablehnung hervorrufend *Syn** quackelig,
trallig, twallig, appeldwatsch, appeldwalsch, figilant, kalwerig. -
**2. *verst?rkend,
sehr *Syn **bannig, b?s, dull.**
*Lit.: Renate Herrmann-Winter Neues hochdeutsch-plattdeutsches W?rterbuch
HINSTORFF.

*lachen *lachen *1. *Art und Umst?nde *a.*anschaulich beschreibend und
besondere Verh?ltnisse: *wenn he lacht, krigen de Uhren Bes?k; du lachst **?
**wer 't ganz Gesicht un ?wer 't halw is man Mod'; he lacht, dat em de Buk
b?wert;  Br?sig lachte mit Arm un Bein; *adv. Bestimmung: *gell lachen *hell
auflachen; im Vergleich, von M?nnern: *lachen as 'n Kobold, as 'n Kiwitt,
as ne Jungfer, as 'n Spitzbow* (nicht eig. volkst?mlich); von Frauen: *lachen
as 'n Stieglitsch, as ne Lachduw, as ne Hawerz?g'; *mit Beziehung auf
einen, der lacht, ohne verstanden zu haben, warum die andern lachen: *dei
maakt 't as dei Nigend?rper Kauhhierd', wenn dei L?d' in 'n D?rp lachen,
lacht hei sick in 'n Busch ok; hei lacht mi nah dei Ogen rin; wer ?wer uns
lacht, hett 'n groten Hals; wecker to lest lacht, de ok to best lacht. **b.
*Lachen und Weinen: *du kannst woll lachen, wenn anner L?d' weinen*; *dee *(der
Wohlhabende) *kann sick v?r Lachen nich bargen, wenn anner L?d' de Ogen
?wergahn; se hett Lachen un Weinen in einen Pott*; vielfach; *dei kann
roren un lachen in einen Aten; noch wit vont Lachen, s?d' de Brut, dor
huult se all.  *Unverstand: *Dummheit lacht.*
Zss.:* an-, be-, dal-, glim-, griff-, grim-, **jicher-, tau-, ter-,
utlachen;
*Wortbildung: *Gelach, Gel?chel, Gel?chter. -  *Mnd. *lachen.*

*Dit is sowat as ein Kostprauw** von Pe*rfesser Vo?lo.

O hah, nu kam ick ok in't Lachen...

Hanne

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From lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM  Tue Jul  9 21:37:36 2013
From: lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM (Lowlands-L)
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 14:37:36 -0700
Subject: LL-L "Language acquisition" 2013.07.09 (02) [CY-EN]
Message-ID: <TUE.9.JUL.2013.143736.0700.>

=====================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L - 09 July 2013 - Volume 02
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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language acquisition

How to (not?) teach a foreign language (including English):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSNpNdFwkAQ

*Humo*(*u*)*r alert!*
Naughty language alert as well!

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

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From lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM  Thu Jul 11 03:41:29 2013
From: lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM (Lowlands-L)
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2013 20:41:29 -0700
Subject: LL-L "Language proficiency" 2013.07.10 (01) [EN]
Message-ID: <WED.10.JUL.2013.204129.0700.>

=====================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L - 10 July 2013 - Volume 01
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From: Roger Thijs <rogerthijs at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language acquisition" 2013.07.09 (02) [CY-EN]

I'm in (Y)ekaterinburg this week and surprised how poor the knowledge of
English here is. Even the lady at the tourist information desk at the
airport (Koltsovo) does not speak English.
The same holds for some restaurants. Fortunately some menu cards have
pictures of the main dishes.
At the event side some staff people have a badge "I speak English", but
asking them to explain how to drive to the airport is much too much asked
for (The exit of the exhibition area is only towards downtown and one
cannot u-turn on the motoway).
The Hertz car rental guy could not distinguish between the fee one pays for
the damage insurance and the franchise still to pay in case of an accident.
He charged me the franchise first in stead of the insurance fee.
Stupid me, I should have learned to speak Russian.
My Yahoo menu appeared in Russian here at first, but after a warning
against use of false identity, I could switch.
American websites (as Yahoo, Linkedin...) automatically give warnings when
one logs in from a Russian IP address.
I'm at Innoprom this week (http://www.innoprom.com/) and staying at the
Angelo airport hotel in Koltsovo.
Regards,
Roger

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From lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM  Fri Jul 19 04:26:22 2013
From: lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM (Lowlands-L)
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2013 21:26:22 -0700
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2013.07.18 (01) [EN]
Message-ID: <THU.18.JUL.2013.212622.0700.>

=====================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L - 18 July 2013 - Volume 01
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From: Tom Mc Rae <thomas.mcrae at bigpond.com>
Subject: LL-L Languge Convention

Delancey Place quoted the following from a book..

-- saying "please" and "thank you" is not a universal
custom -- there are societies such as the Inuit, where it is not the case.
In fact
it first took hold in Western society during the commercial revolution of
the sixteenth
and seventeenth centuries as evidence of the democratization of society --
our desire
to view everyone as equals. Before that, saying please and thank you was a
way to
show deference to a lord or master. "Thank you" derives from "think," and
it originally
meant, "I will remember what you did for me"-- and "please" is short for
"if you
please," "if it pleases you to do this":

Having lived in West Africa for 11 years I would question this statement.
The old Asante Twi language has "thank you" as 'Medassi" and "Thank you
very much" as Medassi Pi."
Further north in Ghana the early iron age Mossi Dagbaani tribes have
"M'pooseeya" or "Ta Puhyia".
English speaking Ghanaians ranging from pidgin to excellent will use
"Please" or "Pleesuh". I concede that some learned this at school
but it is also used by illiterates and appears to have evolved from their
local word for please.
 Best Regards

Tom Mc Rae
Brisbane Australia
Let every man be respected as an individual and no man idolised.
?Albert Einstein

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From lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM  Fri Jul 19 17:10:22 2013
From: lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM (Lowlands-L)
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 10:10:22 -0700
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatic=?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=8Ba=22_?=2013.07.19 (01) [EN]
Message-ID: <FRI.19.JUL.2013.101022.0700.>

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From: Mike Morgan <mwmbombay at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2013.07.18 (01) [EN]

Regarding please and thank you...

Tom Mc Rae notes:
> Delancey Place quoted the following from a book..
> -- saying "please" and "thank you" is not a universal
> custom -- there are societies such as the Inuit, where it is not the case.
> Having lived in West Africa for 11 years I would question this statement.
> The old Asante Twi language has "thank you" as 'Medassi" and "Thank you
> very much" as Medassi Pi." ...

I don't see the disagreement.  After all the statement "is not
universal" does NOT equate with "is universally absent"...

The fact that use of "please" and "thank you" may "equate" in some way
with "modern western values" does NOT mean that they may not ALSO
match well with certain (even many?) non-western non-"modern"
societies and languages.

Although I have some experience in other parts of the world (including
Horn of Africa and southern part of EAST Africa), mostly I can speak
with "authority" about Asia only... and in GENERAL (though not without
exception) usage of phrases translated (tanslatable?) as "please" and
"thank you" in a wide range of languages and societies has "migrated"
towards a Western (Euro-Amerfican) model over the years (i.e. MY
lifetime). The expressions (forms used) haven't much changed (except
as noted below) but the USAGE (significance) HAS.

Take Nepali. Like most modern Indic language there is a word ???????
/dhanyabaad/ which is usually given as the translation of "thank you".
AND, if you listen to mall-attendants and 3-star restaurant
waitpersonel usage (and also by clientelle of such establishments)
nowadays, you will get the impression that it is used EXACTLY as
(American) English "Thank you".

Note however,
1) ??????? is NOT Nepali, it is not an inherited Indic word going
through the normal process of linguistic changes, it is a direct
borrowing from Sanskrit. I.e. it is a 'high-falootin'/high-culture
word. And using it "shows high culture" (whatever that is!)
2) It's use even by service personel and clientelle is NEW. When I was
first in Nepal 35 years ago, one would NEVER have heard someone being
served a meal they ordered replying with ??????? ! UNTHINKABLE!
??????? was something I maybe might would have used if I owed my LIFE
to someone else (e.g. if I had lost my passport AND all my cash on the
road and a Nepali had picked it up and come running after
absent-minded me to RETURN it, THEN I would certainly have said
???????... and probab;ly fallen down, prostrating myself at to his
feet!!).
In the old days , IF ANYTHING was said, the exchange would have gone
something like this:
Wait person: ??????  /linus/ (take it)
Me: ?  /la/ (ok)

There is nothing LESS polite in this... it is just a different
culture... a culture less "contaminated" by Western ways.

AND in a way it is a cheapening... after all, if someone saves my life
or if they serve me a coke, all I can do is give the SAME reply....

PS. Mumbai/Bombay NOTE
A similar development (evolution) has taken place in India also...
Though at least in Mumbai (and much of Urban india) there is STILL a
risistance among educated to equate Indic ??????? /dhanyavaad/ with
"thankyou... and so in Mumbai Marathi and Gujarati and Hindi, the
tendency is to use ?????? /thenks/ (aspirated /t/ NOT dental fricative
/?/

Note also that in Hindi there is the option of using Urdu /shukria/ for
"thanks"

ALSO
as far as I can think, there is STILL no equivalent for please in
Nepali ... except the borrowed Hindi ?????? /krpaya/
we just use the appropriate verb form (imnperative, etc)... and cna
"soften" (or intensify it!) it if needed by the addition of a sentence
final partical (several options available)

 my 8 anna's worth!

mwm || *U*C> || mike || ???? || ???? || ??? (aka Dr Michael W Morgan)
sign language linguist / linguistic typologist
academic adviser, Nepal Sign Language Training and Research
NDFN, Kathmandu, Nepal

----------
 From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2013.07.18 (01) [EN]

My nephew lives in Finland (his wife is Finnish) and their kids are
completely bilingual. But they have to keep reminding the kids to say
please and thank you when speaking English, as it's not an automatic
response in Finnish.
Paul
Derby
England


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From lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM  Mon Jul 22 17:38:14 2013
From: lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM (Lowlands-L)
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 10:38:14 -0700
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatic=?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=8Ba=22_?=2013.07.22 (01) [EN]
Message-ID: <MON.22.JUL.2013.103814.0700.>

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From: Roger Thijs <rogerthijs at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2013.07.18 (01) [EN]

>  *From:* Lowlands-L lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM
> *Sent:* Friday, July 19, 2013 6:26 AM

> From: Tom Mc Rae <thomas.mcrae at bigpond.com>
> Subject: LL-L Languge Convention

> Delancey Place quoted the following from a book..
> -- saying "please" and "thank you" is not a universal custom --

In my Lonerland Limburgish from Vliermaal:

For "please":
The common or rather impolite form:
"d?" a kind of vocative form of "doe?" = in Dutch "daar"
"d?" comes close to the Dutch "ziedaar";
similar to the French "voil?", that still sounds polite when one compl?tes
as "voil? Madame", "voil? Monsieur".

The polite form:
asteblif (Dutch: alstublieft, if it to you pleases) for both singular as
plural
generally also completed as "asteblif meneer", "asteblif madam" "asteblif
mammezel" (= mademoiselle).
Young guys become immediately "meneer", while young ladies, especially when
not married, pass trough an intermediate state of "mammezel".

For "thank you:
"m?rseej" (cf. the French "mersi";
it is not uncommon to diphtongize ending e or i vowels as well in East
Walloon as in Southern Limburgish.

When offering food, one adds generally:
"Lut het oech smoake" ("lut" is the imperative form of "loe?te", Dutch
"laten")
"Oech" sounds similar to "euch" in German, but it is used in both singular
as plural, so as "u" can be used for both in Dutch.

When offering drinks:
"Sonteej" not nazalized in Vliermaal, it is nazalized though by some in
Tongeren 5 miles to the South (cf. French "Sant?" nazalized)

Regards,
Roger

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From lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM  Mon Jul 29 01:06:35 2013
From: lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM (Lowlands-L)
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2013 18:06:35 -0700
Subject: LL-L "Travels" 2013.07.28 (01) [EN]
Message-ID: <SUN.28.JUL.2013.180635.0700.>

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From: Roger Thijs <rogerthijs at yahoo.com>
Subject:  LL-L Travel

We had some exchanges on travel in this group before. Let's see if it is
still active.

I'm looking for suggestions
I'm participating at a conference of the IEEE in Vancouver on Sept. 11-13.
I'm staying at the Delta, 550 West Hastings
The conference is across the street in the Harbour Centre. (I would rather
write Harbor Center, but the Canadians .....)

I arrive on Sept 9 in the evening.
So I have the 10th for visiting Vancouver (+ jetlag recup).
Suggesstions are welcome.

I'm returning home, leaving on Sept 15 in the morning.
On the 14th I take a trip to Seattle:
Amtrak Cascades 6:40 am -> 11:05 am
and back 6:50 pm -> 10:50 pm
I reserved for Underground Seattle at 12 pm.
I don't know how long that tour will take.

Thanks ahead for all good advice.

Regards,
Roger
----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Travels

Hi, Roger!

What wonderful news about you visiting our area again!

I'm sure other people have more information than I do.

Let me just say that I've spent a lot of time in
Vancouver<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZvbVzIMQbw>(BC, Canada),
and it's one of my favorite cities. It's one of the closes
North America has to a "European city". Robson Street in downtown, all the
way up to English Bay. (Part of that street is known as Robsonstra?e,
because that neighborhood used to be home to many German immigrants. For
people-watching, I recommend Granville Island with its artist studios,
theater and a terrific market.

There's good East Asian food in Vancouver (being North America's "sushi
capital"). If you like good, affordable Chinese food, eat at Hon's on
Keefer Street in Chinatown (not the one in downtown!). Also try the French
Canadian signature dish *poutine <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poutine>*.
You as a Belgian might actually enjoy it (while I am not too sure about it
...)

I believe the tour of Seattle's
underground<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1SKA6TasD4>takes about
one hour. (Careful! The place is said to be haunted ...)  I'm
not yet sure what my teaching schedule will be like, but, if you have the
time, I'd love to have lunch of dinner with you somewhere. It would be
really nice to see you again.

Let's communicate about the details of that privately.

Best regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA


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From lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM  Mon Jul 29 17:23:36 2013
From: lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM (Lowlands-L)
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 10:23:36 -0700
Subject: LL-L "Travels" 2013.07.29 (01) [EN]
Message-ID: <MON.29.JUL.2013.102336.0700.>

=====================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L - 29 July 2013 - Volume 01
lowlands.list at gmail.com - http://lowlands-l.net/
 Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org
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 =====================================================

From: Pat Reynolds <pat at caerlas.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Travels" 2013.07.28 (01) [EN]

We had some exchanges on travel in this group before. Let's see if it is
still active

Roger Thijs <rogerthijs at yahoo.com>
wrote .....



We had some exchanges on travel in this group before. Let's see if it is
still active.



I'm looking for suggestions

I'm participating at a conference of the IEEE in Vancouver on Sept.
11-13.....



Hi Roger,



It is a long time since I was in Vancouver (over 20 years), and then
Stanley Park and the Anthropological Museum were the things I?d return to.
It was also a nice city to wander in.  The only downside for me was that
the plane descended very rapidly, which upset my hearing/balance for the
first couple of days.



Cheers,



Pat



Pat Reynolds

Settling in to a new job, working for the Heritage Crafts Association (
www.heritagerafts.org.uk)


----------

From: Jacqueline Bungenberg de Jong <Dutchmatters at comcast.net>
Subject: LL-L "Travels" 2013.07.28 (01) [EN]


To Roger, in reply to your going to Vancouver.****

It is a wonderfully civilized city. Of all the things to do in Vancouver,
three stand out:****

1.The Anthropological Museum at UBC. A most interesting collection of
artifacts and works of art of the local tribes before the white man took
their indigenous life away. Their collection of totempoles is fantastic.
But they also have art by modern Indian artists that makes your jaw drop.***
*

2. The authentic Chinese garden of Dr. Sun Yat Sen. It transports you in
the dream world of a Chinese scholar from the end of the end of the
19thcentury. Make sure that you buy tea at their tea shop!  It is
unfortunate
that the neighborhood is a little bit unkemped, but the gardens and the
study are absolutely worth it.****

3. For just mindless enjoyment ( yes, I know about those meetings ) I would
suggest you amble over to the Aquarium and spend time with the fishes, and
the aquatic mammals and do not forget to go visit the rainforest in the
belly of the aquarium. You?ll come out a better person; guaranteed.****

Jacqueline BdJ****

Seattle WA  USA (across the border) ****

----------

From: Isaac M. Davis <isaacmacdonalddavis at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Travels" 2013.07.28 (01) [EN]


For poutine, I recommend Frenchies Diner on Dunsmuir (speaking as a former
resident of Vancouver and a current resident of Montr?al). Bon app?tit!

Regards,

Isaac M. Davis


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From lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM  Tue Jul 30 00:07:26 2013
From: lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM (Lowlands-L)
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 17:07:26 -0700
Subject: LL-L "Travels" 2013.07.29 (02) [EN]
Message-ID: <MON.29.JUL.2013.170726.0700.>

=====================================================

L O W L A N D S - L - 29 July 2013 - Volume 02

lowlands.list at gmail.com - http://lowlands-l.net/

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From: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding at wlandres.net>
Subject: LL-L "Travels" 2013.07.29 (01) [EN]



> From: Pat Reynolds <pat at caerlas.co.uk>
> Subject: LL-L "Travels" 2013.07.28 (01) [EN]
>
> Roger Thijs <rogerthijs at yahoo.com>
> wrote .....
>
> We had some exchanges on travel in this group before. Let's see if
> it is still active.
>
> I'm looking for suggestions
>
> I'm participating at a conference of the IEEE in Vancouver on Sept.
> 11-13.....
>
> Hi Roger,
> It is a long time since I was in Vancouver (over 20 years), and then
> Stanley Park and the Anthropological Museum were the things I'd
> return to.
> It was also a nice city to wander in.  The only downside for me was
> that the plane descended very rapidly, which upset my hearing/balance
> for the first couple of days.
>
> Cheers,
> Pat
>
> Pat Reynolds
> Settling in to a new job, working for the Heritage Crafts Association
> ( www.heritagerafts.org.uk )

Pat:
heritagerafts are just what you need for making a tour round Vancouver
Island!

Best wishes to all,
Ted.
PS: Written within 20 miles of King's Lynn, England -- anciently
a major Hanseatic port, and birthplace of Captain George Vancouver
who explored and mapped that part of the Pacific coast in the 1790s,
and whose name is attached to many places.

> [remainder snipped]
> ----------

-------------------------------------------------
E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding at wlandres.net>
Date: 29-Jul-2013  Time: 19:07:23
This message was sent by XFMail
-------------------------------------------------

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From lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM  Tue Jul 30 18:25:42 2013
From: lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM (Lowlands-L)
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 11:25:42 -0700
Subject: LL-L "Literature" 2013.07.30 (01) [NDS]
Message-ID: <TUE.30.JUL.2013.112542.0700.>

=====================================================

L O W L A N D S - L - 30 July 2013 - Volume 01

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From: Hannelore Hinz <hannehinz at t-online.de> <hannehinz at t-online.de>
 Subject: Literature (Autorin. H. Hinz)

            *Austmaand

*    Hoch tellt de Austtied as ein Fest,
    un ripte S?nn dat Kuurn up't best,
    mit Freud is Austarbeit rasch dahn,
    nu heit dat, an de Austkron ran;
    wi binnen sei mit Lief un S??l;
    tau Austk?st sm?ck sei de Sch?nd??l.

    L?t Austmaand uns mit Hundsdag' sweiten,
    ok dat will'n wi noch d?gt geneiten.
    Man, wenn noch eins de Kukuk r?ppt,
    so hart uns nahst de Winter dr?ppt.
    V?l Dau m?t sien, hei bringt kein Not,
    wi hebben stolt dat d?glich Brot.

    S?nd Lorenz (10.), Bartelmeis (24.) ok gaud,
    denn k?mmt de Harwst mit S?nn'nmaud.
    Un ?wer uns an'n wieden H?ben
    Tw?stiert sien Jungv?gel hoch sw?ben.
    De Sommertied w?wt lies' ehr Enn';
    bald ward de S?nn sick wedder wenn'.

    Tw?lstiert: Roter Milan

Mit ein hartlich Gr?uten.

Hanne Hinz


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From lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM  Tue Jul 30 18:29:22 2013
From: lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM (Lowlands-L)
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 11:29:22 -0700
Subject: LL-L "Travels" 2013.07.30 (02) [EN]
Message-ID: <TUE.30.JUL.2013.112922.0700.>

=====================================================

L O W L A N D S - L - 30 July 2013 - Volume 02

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From: Roger Thijs <rogerthijs at yahoo.com>
Subject:  Re: LL-L "Travels" 2013.07.29 (02) [EN]

> From: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding at wlandres.net>
> Subject: LL-L "Travels" 2013.07.29 (01) [EN]
> ...;heritagerafts are just what you need for making a tour round
Vancouver  Island!

Thanks to all for the suggestions.

A couple of things:

1 - The Vancouver family is supposed to have Dutch origins:
quote: There has been some debate about the origins of the Vancouver name.
It is now commonly accepted that the name Vancouver derives from the
expression van Coevorden, meaning "(originating) from Coevorden", a city in
the northeast of the Netherlands. This city is apparently named after the
"Coeverden" family of the 13 ? 15th century. An alternative theory is that
Vancouver is a misspelling or anglicized version of Van Couwen, a Dutch
name.
quoted from:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Vancouver

2 - Vancouver gives me nightmares.
I have been driving up to there for an exhibition a couple of years ago,
while staying in Bellingham WA (after a visit to Boeing in Everett).
My Hertz "Never Lost" guided me to the middle of nowhere in a hilly suburb.
I found a commercial street and I stopped for lunch at a Laotian restaurant.
The meat was served in a bowl of red soup. Some meat fell of the fork,
splashing my shirt with the red fluid.
My spare clothes were left in the hotel in Bellingham, but fortunately I
could buy a shirt in a Pakistanese shop in that street.
Anyhow, in the afternoon I still came to make a tour of the exhibition in
the expo centre, downtown at the harbour.

3 - I got poutine coming out of my ears when being in Montreal for a week
last year.
I was staying in the Fairmont above the underground railway station, having
a lot of eateries underground.
Actually I don't like the sweet ketchup tasting sauce, nor the cheese blocs
on my fries.
And further I think it is a bomb of calories.

4 - I made some jokes about poutine at the booth of Canada at the Innoprom
exhibition in Ekaterinburg a couple of weeks ago.
The staffing actually was not Canadian (none of them understood French).
They had contracted the thing to a Russian governmental service.
And these guys had a different taste of humor.

Regards,
Roger


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