Nahuatl Word Recognition I

[R. Joe Campbell]

Mark,
   This multi-embedded message will probably stress some people, but since
this is really like a chat, ...   I'll mark my comments with ***** to make
it easier to follow.

On Mon, 26 Jul 1999, Mark David Morris wrote:
>
> I've been cheating, and I'm still confused.
>
> On Mon, 26 Jul 1999, R. Joe Campbell wrote:
>
> > Fran,
> >
> > On Mon, 26 Jul 1999, Frances Karttunen wrote:
> >
> > > >   tzoaztli
> > > >
> > > >1. what does it mean?
> > >
> > > I think it means a snare made with cord.
> >
> > *** Bingo!  (said by people who think the same thing and hope they're
> > right too)
>
> //////The two elements here are tzontli (hair) and hua:ztli (a fibrous
> instrument), meaning an instrument of thin fibers, by practice then a
> snare.

***** Andrews (p. 371) discusses "hua:z" type instrumental nouns.  He
points out that it incorporates a noun stem, frequently of the patientive
type.  Therefore, for the incorporation to take place, it must come from
some "hypothetical" verb (or obsolete verb), like *tla-huaza or *tla-huaci
(sorry, forgot the long vowel marks and my PINE is not very forgiving).
So many instrumental nouns with "hua:ztli" may show up -- perhaps deleting
the /w/.


>
>
> >
> > > >2. *how* does it mean? (i.e., what are its meaning parts?)
> > >
> > > I only know it in derived forms.  And I think it's probably tzohuaztli.
> > > Maybe the same -aztli as in teponaztli, etc.?  Which leaves us with the
> > > tzo(hu)- part.
> >
> > ***I hadn't thought of "teponaztli", but *now* that you mention it, it's
> > an attractive idea.  I think the suffix is "-hua:ztli" as in
> > "tlahtolhuaztli" (throat) and "tlachpanhuaztli" (broom).  That /w/ deletes
> > also in "tzo:tzopa:ztli" (weaver's tool).  And I believe that the stem is
> > "tzontli" (the "-huaztli" instrument considered to be made of fibers).
> >
>
> ////////tzo:tzopa:ztli is comprised of some inflected form of ihtzoma (to
> sew) +
> hua:ztli, and becomes a metaphor to combine with mah- hand to mean
> forearm?

***** I think that it's off "tzopi" (finish, end) -- and concerned with
the function of the weaving beater (of tightening up the threads,
fibers?).  I've always been interested in their using what to us is a
highly specialized term (weaving beater) to derive what to *us* is so
basic (forearm).


> Regarding the mention of teponaztli, I am further confused by these
> vocabulary items from the Florentine where -huaztli doesn't necessarily
> have to be an instrument suffix
>
> quetzalecacehuaztli. quetzal feather fan.
> ayauhchicahuaztli. mist rattleboard
>

***** I assume that the first one *is* instrumental and involves "e:catl"
(wind) and "ce:hui/a".  Wind-cooling-instrument (made of feathers)
I'm more in the dark about "-chicahuaztli" -- my daring?? guess is that it
involves scraping (i.e., "ihchiqui").


>
> >    I thought the "tzoaztli" [tzoa:ztli] was a cute and puzzling item
> > because of the double deletion.  First, the /w/ "hu" deletes the /n/ of
> > "tzontli" -- /w/ and /y/ are both highly 'n-ivorous' -- and then the
> > underlying /w/ is deleted (in many dialects) in "-owa-" sequences.
>
> ///////I thought you were getting at that -aztli was some kind of agentive
> suffix that could combine with tzotl, but that's typical of me and
> morphology. Finally, I could use some help breaking this one up too:
>

***** Well, our chat group declined to take up the issue of "tzoyotl", but
I wasn't implying a relationship of "tzoaztli" with such a filthy topic.
|8-<)


> tenamaztli. hearth stone.
>

***** I've wondered about "tenamaztli" and I'm still wishing that someone
would give me a good answer...


> Thanks, Mark Morris


*****
Joe