Re: Meaning of Tenochtitlán

[Accounts Clerk]

Niltze Joe

Thanks for the list and the note about te-tl. I've been wondering about the
meaning of te-no:ch-tli. Does this just mean "hard nopal fruit" or does it
mean something else? I thought it might mean a particular variety of nopal
fruit but I could not locate the name te-no:ch-tli amongst the list of nopal
fruits or types of nopals.

Secondly, (I tread carefully here), I've noticed that the vowel length of
the vowel "o" in no:ch-tli is different to the vowel "o" in Tenochtitlan.
Is this likely to make any difference to the generally accepted translation
"at the base (among, near, below, next to) of the hard nopal (prickly pear)
(fruit???))"???  I understand that the Otomi name for Mexihco-Tenochtitlan
was Anbondo Amedetzana (bondo meaning prickly pear). This would support the
general translation, however bondo seems to be translated as prickly pear
and not as the fruit of the prickly pear. (J Soustelle).

Thirdly, how can one be sure of translating -tlan as "at the base of, among,
near, below, next to". I found the following examples:

Nocaltitlan  = near my house;
Iuititlan = among the feathers;
Quauhtitlan = near the trees;
Tepetitlan = near the mountain;
Tenochtitlan = "at the base of the hard prickly pear fruit."

Also, I have noticed that (in these examples) sometimes the stem is
translated as singular and at others as plural. To me I do not see any
indication of the stem being plural.

Fourthly, What actually, does "at the base of the hard prickly pear fruit"
mean???. Many translation show "at the base of the hard prickly pear".
Should the word fruit be dropped?? But if you dropped the word fruit
wouldn't the city name then be something like "Tenochnohpaltitlan".

Sorry to ask so many questions but my inqisitive mind wants to know? :)

Tlazohcamati

Russell Coleman






At 23:46 01-03-99 -0700, you wrote:
>One small addition:  the 'te-' of 'tenochtitlan' is 'te(-tl)' [stone].
>Fruits that were hard (like green apples) picked up the 'te(-tl)' as a
>compounding element to indicate the hardness.  Cf. 'texocotl', Spanish
>"tejocote".
>
Accounts Clerk,
Library Administration, Reid Building
University of W.A., Stirling Hwy Nedlands  W.A.  6907  Australia

Tel:  (08) 9380 1904	Fax:  (08) 9380 1012