Nahuatl Word 4

Thu Feb 5 00:01:19 UTC 2004

Joe,
Aaaaaaah. Of course. This makes much more sense.
This raises a question for me though. Is there a grammatical reason for
having the "teuh" here instead of just the noun/adjective? It would seem
that they could just use "tetl" without the "teuh" and get the same
meaning. I notice from the list you included that the "teuh" appears
with other nouns functioning as adjectives. Is this just a kind of
redundancy or is there some contextual or grammatical reason for using
the "teuh"?
Galen

r. joe campbell wrote:

>On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Galen Brokaw wrote:
>
>
>>Joe,
>>Is there a spelling mistake in this one too?
>>Specifically, could you spell it: nitlateteuhana?
>>
>>Galen
>>
>>
>>
>
>Galen,
>
>   If Nahuatl spelling were determined only by the phonemes and their
>various juxtapositions, the spelling would be  nitlatetehuana.  In
>fact, the form that I presented as Molina's contained an error
>(Molina: nitlateteuana), since Molina usually spelled /w/ as 'u'.  (I
>handle Nahuatl words in a regularized spelling which is similar to the
>Carochi/Andrews/Karttunen orthography, except for not supplying vowel
>length or glottal stops which are not in the original text.)
>
>   Your spelling (which I like, but still have some reservations about)
>(i.e. nitlateteuhana) is the kind alluded to in Andrews (rev. ed.), p. 31,
>para. 2.5:  "Spelling at Points of Internal Open Transition.  When two
>stems are joined by compounding ... their boundaries, as a rule, are
>preserved by open transition; that is, a slight but audible space is left
>between the adjacent sounds. This has several consequences: ... ... (2) a
>stem-final consonant has the sound it would have in vocable-final position
>(e.g., [kwaw + e:watl], {my keyboard characters can't allow me reproduce
>Andrews' transcription with fidelity} where the /w/ of [kwaw] is
>voiceless). Written texts recognize open transition by spelling a
>stem-final consonant in such a context as if it were vocable-final:
>cuauhe:huatl (not cuahue:huatl)..."
>
>   Since I don't believe that orthographic records are an anywhere near
>foolproof way of inferring low-level phonetic facts like the devoicing
>of /w/, I have doubts about "a slight but audible space" being left
>after the /w/s in question.  "Open juncture" has been a problem for
>linguists, partly because there has not been agreement on what it was.
>Some linguists have assumed that the term was to be taken literally --
>that it really involved a *space* (read, "silence", "pause", etc.).
>Some linguists have suggested that juncture was some sort of operator
>which was "present", but might or might not be audible, the likelihood
>of its presence inferred by indirect means (as are many "facts" about
>our world).
>
>   When I say "I have doubts", that probably leaves doubt as to what I
>mean.  I *don't* believe (until someone shows a good reason) that we
>have any way of detecting the degree of voicing in intervocal /w/ in
>"classical" Nahuatl.
>   All of my tapes are of such bad quality... >8-)
>
>   But that's another story...
>
>   Since my server saw fit to drop me and the first version of my
>comments, I saw your second message and I'm composing off-line to
>protect myself from the malice up there -- I'll upload and send it off
>while it's not looking.
>
>   I agree that the -teteuh- sequence could be a reduplication.  In
>fact, whenever I see two identical syllables in Nahuatl, it's my first
>candidate for interpreting the morphological structure, as in:
>
>   qui-tlatlalia     he repeatedly places it
>
>On the other hand, sometimes the structure dictates that it shouldn't
>be regarded as reduplication:
>
>    ni_tlatla_palaquia  I apply color to something
>       ------
>
>where  tlapa:lli (tla-pa:-l-li)  is an embedded noun, acting as an
> adverb on the verb -aqui-a; nitla- is, of course, the subject with
> its tla- being the object pa:.
>
>           tla-pa:-l
>    ni-tla-         aqui-a
>
>
>************************
>*  Just an aside:
>*
>* I would look around at the occurrences of -teuh  that need to be
>* eliminated in the consideration of the element preceding it:
>*
>*   ocualanteuh       he got up angrily and went away
>*
>*   o-cualan(i)-t(i)-ehua(a)  a compound verb
>*
>*************************
>* and, of course, noteuh (my stone)
>*
>*************************
>I have found:
>
>  amateuhtlalili , tla-.  something that is fashioned like paper. <p51-
>    a:matl-teuh-tla:lia:-l1>. FC
>    (very likely an error for tla-amateuhtlalilli)
>  choquizcuauhteuhtlaza =nino.  llorar con golpes. <p11-p54-cho:ca-liz-
>    cuahuitl-teuh-tla:za>. 55m-12
>  cihuateuh.  mugerilmente. <cihua:tl-teuh>. 55m-14
>  cozcateuh.  like a jewel; like a necklace; like a precious necklace.
>    <co:zcatl-teuh>. FC
>  cozcateuhtlamatizque , ti-.  we shall love him like a precious
>    necklace. <p21-co:zcatl-teuh-p51-mati-z-plur01>. FC
>  ichcateuhtic.  flueco de lana. <ichcatl-teuh-tic>. 55m-10
>  macuexteuh.  like a bracelet. <ma:itl-cuextli-teuh>. FC
>  macuexteuhtlamatizque , ti-.  we shall love him like a precious stone
>    necklace. <p21-ma:itl-cuextli-teuh-p51-mati-z-plur01>. FC
>  mati =cozcateuh quetzalteuh ipan nimitz.  tener en gran estima el
>    padre a su hijo. <co:zcatl-teuh quetzalli-teuh poss-pan p11-p32>.
>    71m1-20
>  ocholteuhtlalia , nitla-.  I form something cluster-like. <p11-p51-
>    ochoa-l1-teuh-tla:lia:>. FC
>  ohocholteuhca.  like clusters. <dupl-ochoa-l1-teuh-->. FC
>  quetzalteuh.  like a precious feather. <quetzalli-teuh>. FC
>  temicteuh.  dream-like. <te:miqui-l2-teuh>. FC
>  xictetehuanazque , qui-.  they will violently tear out his entrails.
>    <p33-xi:ctli-tetl1-teuh-a:na1-z-plur01>. FC
>
>
>This examples should indicate that -teuh- is the shape of the modifying
>particle and that the element which precedes it is a noun.  If that
>noun is tetl, then words like:
>
>   nic-teteuh-ilpia    I tie it tightly, I tie it hard
>   qui-teteuh-malina   she twists it tightly, she twists it hard
>
>are only slightly metaphorical -- and then speakers exercise their love
>for wider, more stretched, oc cenca tlateteuhantli metaphors with items
>like:
>
>   nino-teteuh-ana     I stretch (with laziness or to relax)
>
>Thanks!!! for mentioning the -titihuana example.  I hadn't noticed it --
>and, if I had, might not have made the connection.  The e to i change
>certainly does occur.  One curious thing is that all the -titiuh
>examples are restricted to the Florentine.  The -teteuh examples
>occur both in the Florentine and in the three Molinas.
>
>Saludos,
>
>Joe
>
>
>
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