Regarding Frye's analysis of Zacatlan

[Frances Karttunen]

Clearly the place name is formed of the stem zaca- 'grass' (minus the
absolutive suffix of the citation form zacatl) plus a suffix. There is
a locative suffix  -tla:n with a long vowel.  -tla:n binds to stems
without the -ti- ligature and means 'next to, among.'

Then there is the postposition -tlan with a short vowel that means
'beneath, under.'  This one binds to stems with -ti- to form place
names but does not use the -ti- when functioning as a simple
postposition, as in i:-tlan, for example.  With body parts there are
some -tlan doublets with and without -ti.

I think "Zacatlan" is actually Zacatla:n and formed with -tla:n in
contrast to Teno:chtitlan

Fran

On Oct 14, 2004, at 8:00 AM, Steffen Haurholm-Larsen wrote:

> As I was reading the message below which was a response to the
> "Coahuila"
> discussion I could'nt help but notice the analysis of "zacatlan" as
> consisting of "zacatl" and a supposed suffix "-an" to form the locative
> expression of "the grass place" or "place of grass". In the analysis
> the
> suffix "-an" is translated as "place".
> I do belive, however, that this suffix does not exist in nahuatl, at
> least
> not in that form. I think that the suffix in use here is "-tlan"
> meaning
> originally "under" but tanking the meaning of "by" or "at"(Michel
> Launey:
> 1992, p. 219.) Then the analysis would be that by the derrivation the
> word
> "zacatl" looses its indefinit suffix "-tl" and in stead is suffigated
> "-tlan" to form the placename "Zacatlan".
> It is the same suffix that appears in the placename of the Mexica
> capital
> Tenochtitlan only in that particular case with the ligature "-ti-"
> between
> the nominal root and the suffix.
>
> My best regards
> Steffen Haurholm- Larsen,
> University of Copenhagen
>
>
>
>
>> From: "Frye, David L" <dfrye at UMICH.EDU>
>> Reply-To: Nahua language and culture discussion
>> <NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU>
>> To: NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU
>> Subject: Re: Coahuila
>> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:02:08 -0400
>>
>> Ignacio Zaragoza was born in Bahia de Espiritu Santo in what was then
>> the Mexican state of "Coahuila y Texas." The same year he was born,
>> Bahia was renamed Goliad, and a few years later it became part of
>> Texas.
>> When Texas broke from Mexico, a big chunks of Coahuila and Tamaulipas
>> (aka Nuevo Santander) were taken as part of Texas, but Goliad was
>> always
>> in the Texas part of "Coahuila y Texas." (The town is SE of San
>> Antonio.) Ignacio Zaragoza grew up in Matamoros and then moved to
>> Monterrey before going on to national prominence as a general.
>>
>> In response to an earlier message, -teco and -teca are alternative
>> Spanish versions of the Nahuatl suffix -tecatl, which means "from (a
>> place)." It is sort of like -an in English: Mexico, America > Mexican,
>> American. It does not quite mean "people" in itself, but it is quite
>> often used to create adjectives and nouns to describe the people from
>> a
>> given place.
>>
>> For example, "Zacatecas" is the Spanish plural of "Zacateca," from
>> Nahuatl "Zacatecatl," which means "(people) from Zacatlan." Zacatlan
>> in
>> turn is zacatl (grass) + the suffix -an (place). So "Zacatecas" are
>> the
>> people from Zacatlan, the Place of Grass.
>>
>> Coahuilteco would most likely be from Coahuiltecatl, "(the people)
>> from
>> Coahuillan."
>>
>> It is worth mentioning that Nahuatl speakers gave names to places all
>> over Mexico, Guatemala, and surrounding areas. The name Coahuila might
>> come from Nahuatl, but that does not necessarily mean that the people
>> in
>> Coahuila spoke Nahuatl.
>
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