Teuctli

[Michael McCafferty]

But I guess I don't know what's going on in John's forms! :)

I'm sure Fran and Joe will help iron this out. There seems to be a 
phonetic change going on of some sort. I like /kwLi/ going to /koLi/, 
but I can't say if that happens elsewhere.

Michael

Quoting Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu>:

> Sorry, not a contraction in Nahuatl, a "rounding".
>
> Michael
>
> Quoting Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu>:
>
>> Quoting "John Sullivan, Ph.D." <idiez at mac.com>:
>>
>>> Sorry for the late comment on this topic. In Northern Veracruz
>>> Nahuatl, we also have "tecohtli", "dueño", and "itecoh", "su dueño".
>>> But I can't see how this could be a spelling pronunciation. The
>>> Huasteca is peripheral to the Central Mexican writing tradition, and
>>> I just can't see literacy as having had any significant impact on
>>> speech in this area. Also, in this region a syllable final "w" sounds
>>>  very much like an "h", perhaps a bit more prolonged. In
>>> Tamazunchale,  only a few hours away, the sound is still pretty much
>>> like the "h",  but the rounding is perceptible.
>>> John
>>
>>
>> It's hard to say, John, what is going on, but it could be in "tecohtli"
>> a simple case of contraction, that is, a contraction of the original
>> /-kw-/ of the stem /te:kw-/ 'lord' to [-ko(h-)] at the spoken level. We
>> see such a thing, for example, in Miami-Illinois, an Algonquian
>> language, where, say, phonemic /ceenkwihtanki/ 'it thunder-flows'
>> (i.e., 'it is a waterfall') can go to phonetic [ceenkohtangi]. ( c "ch")
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 9, 2007, at 1:19 PM, Frances Karttunen wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 9, 2007, at 12:29 PM, David Wright wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Regarding Fran's statement "In Milpa Alta the word has bifurcated,
>>>>> with the original form retaining its meaning of 'lord' and a
>>>>> spelling pronunciation based on tecuhtli having taken on the
>>>>> meaning of 'boss'": In the cassettes prepared by José Concepción
>>>>> Flores Arce ("El Maestro Xochime") for teaching Nahuatl, I hear
>>>>> [te:ku?tli].
>>>>
>>>> In my experience with M.A. Nahuatl, the labialized [kw] has
>>>> simplified to [w], so te:uctli is pronounced [te:wtli] (the name of
>>>> the local sacred mountain).  The 'boss, bureaucrat' word derived
>>>> from the spelling pronunciation is pronounced [te:kohtli] with the
>>>> [h] here representing the local pronunciation of the glottal stop.
>>>> But the o/u distinction being nonsignificant in most varieties of
>>>> spoken Nahuatl, including M.A. as I know it, it might be pronounced
>>>> more like [te:kuhtli].
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> In the accompanying book, in the vocabulary list, I find
>>>>> "tecu'tli, (sust.) dirigente, gobernante." I also see the root
>>>>> with the kw > k shift in the word "tecpampa, (sust.) palacio,
>>>>> oficina." El Maestro Xochime is from Milpa Alta (in southeastern
>>>>> Mexico City). I assume that the unusual (for a native speaker)
>>>>> pronunciation [te:ku?tli] is the result of influence from Mexico
>>>>> City academics of the Garibay school. Fran (or others): do you
>>>>> have any information or comments on this?
>>>>
>>>> It might well be.  I just think of it as spelling pronunciation.
>>>> The spelling "tecuhtli" managed to mislead Thelma Sullivan, who
>>>> used the word in her Compendio as an example of how the -tli form
>>>> of the absolutive suffix is used after saltillo (glottal stop).
>>>> Perhaps this was inherited from her teacher, who was none other
>>>> than Garibay.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Fran
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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