Ometeotl=tloque nahuaque

[David Becraft]

Cuachitin,

 

All sources that I have seen have related Ometeotl as being the same "person(s)" as Tloque Nahuaque, Yohualli-Ehecatl, Quetzalcoatl (Quetzalcuate?), and Moyocoyani.  Different names relating to different attributes of one divine god, who being invisible (yohualli-ehecatl) is also everywhere near us (tloque nahuaque) and is also the creator of humanity (quetzalcoatl), yet is the creator of him/herself (moyocoyani), yet, it is one divine being (ometeotl).  Due to these theological perspectives on Nahua though, I would translate Ometeotl as a metaphorical translation: " plurality of divine persons", or "god of plurality".

 

timota,

 

Pancho


 
> Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 23:21:36 -0400
> From: campbel at indiana.edu
> To: ipedrozar at gmail.com
> CC: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] Ometeotl
> 
> Pedro,
> 
> Things are frequently not as simple as we think they are... or wish
> they were. If they were, I might be a chemist. But I'm glad I'm not.
> I wouldn't have missed Nahuatl (and Nahuat-l) for anything.
> 
> When we find that morphemes have variant forms, it is natural to
> wonder if a particular form isn't connected with a particular "meaning
> unit" (i.e., morpheme) that we are familiar with. If we are going to
> entertain the possibility of that connection, we are frequently faced
> the necessity of building "semantic bridges" between the basic
> meanings of forms and the meanings of other forms (usually in
> combination with others.
> 
> An example:
> 
> 1) When I started the English translation and morphological
> analysis of Molina's 1571 Nahuatl-Spanish dictionary in about 1970, I
> hadn't read Carochi -- and Andrews' and Karttunen's works were still
> in the future.
> I looked at Molina's entry:
> Atlacatl. marinero , o mal hombre.
> 
> The first part looked obvious... ("if Nahuatl morphology is *this*
> simple..." I thought).
> "a(tl)" = 'water' + "tlaca(tl)" = 'person, man' == "a-tlaca(tl)" --
> 'water-man, sailor'.
> But the second Spanish gloss made me pause -- what was bad about
> sailors? And then I remembered reading that the people who took their
> dugout canoes around the canals of central Mexico, peddling fruit,
> vegetables, and game, sometimes left the people at their stopping
> place less than pleased with their behavior. That seemed like a
> satisfactory semantic bridge to me. So the behavior of water-persons
> was a likely explanation for the extended meaning, even though there
> is nothing inherent in 'water' or "atl" that hints at evil or bad
> behavior.
> 
> Years later, I benefitted from Carochi, Andrews, and Karttunen,
> and learned that "a:tl" has a long vowel, and that the initial
> element of "the other meaning" not only has a short vowel, but a
> glottal stop as well --"ah-". Or, "ah-" 'not' + "tlacatl" 'person,
> human' = 'not human, bad'. (It can be noted that I still don't
> always write vowel length, but at least now, I admit it.)
> 
> 
> The moral of the story is that all that seems simple may not be.
> ...and that there is always more to know.
> 
> ................
> 
> On the issue of "ometeotl", I would first suggest that it may not
> be a single word, maybe a two word phrase. There are other apparent
> words might deceive us:
> 
> coatlicue name of a divinity
> really: coatl i-cue (her skirt is snakes)
> 
> Coatlichan name of a town
> really coatl i-chan (snake's house)
> 
> Atlihuetzia name of a town (in Tlaxcala)
> really atl i-huetziya(n) (water's falling place -- waterfall)
> 
> .............................
> 
> On the issue of the vowel dropping behavior of "o:me" and "e:yi",
> the facts just don't support a simple "they drop their final vowels
> before X" statement.
> 
> "e:yi" obeys the general rule that "y" usually drops in direct
> contact with "i", as in "ayi, celiya, chichiya, chiya,
> ciyacatl, ihcuiya, piya, etc." It happens too after the other
> front vowel "e", but not with such regularity: "ceya, meya".
> So "eyi" shows up frequently as "ei".
> 
> As Ivan and Mario recently pointed out, when "y" occurs in final
> position, it changes to "x" ('sh'):
> 
> castolcan omexcan in eighteen places
> cempoalpa omexpa. twenty-three times
> chicuexpa. eight times
> excampa nacaceh triangular
> 
> Sometimes "yi" deletes and leaves only the "e" segment:
> 
> epantli. three rows
> oc epoalcan in another sixty places
> epoalilhuitl sixty days
> 
> 
> Given this kind of variation, I would hesitate to identify any
> "e", "ex", or "ei" as a token of "eyi". And even more, I would walk
> with great trepidation with regard to making a statement about the
> worldview of a culture on the basis of such an identification.
> 
> Iztayomeh,
> 
> Joe
> 
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