budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr
Wed Nov 23 22:54:26 UTC 2011
Avez-vous lu Christian Duverger ? « L'Origine des Aztèques », Le Seuil, 1983 p. 193 ou 2003 p. 211, note 2. Une entorse au droit d'auteur... :
— fumée. Reste à traduire la syllabe -tli qui ne peut appartenir au radical tezcatl, le -tl final tombant lorsqu'un substantif entre en combinaison. On peut probablement la lire comme équivalente de tle, de tletl, feu. D'une part nous avons plusieurs évidences de transcription tlitl pour « feu » ; d'autre part le dictionnaire de Molina connaît le verbe tlepopoca « tener gran calor o calentura » (part II, p. 147 vº). Tezcatlipoca
tletl/tlitl comme Tlatelolco/Tlatilolco ?
> Message du 22/11/11 23:15
> De : "Michael McCafferty"
> A : nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> Copie à :
> Objet : Re: [Nahuat-l] tezcatlipoca
> I looked through the archives and figured finally that it was
> "Teotihuacan" not "Tezcatlipoca" that was discussed. Sorry for the
> mistaken reference.
> Tezozomoc's explanation is found in Karttunen's dictionary. I'm not
> entranced by it.
> Here's what I think is happening with "Tezcatlipoca". (If Joe cringes,
> I will be able to feel it from afar.)
> I think the name is Proto-Nahuatl. In other words, I think it's a very
> old name, and this evidenced by the noun form for "mirror," *te:zcatli,
> which would be an older form of te:zcatl.
> The modern verb meaning 'smoke' is of course popo:ca, but it seems to
> me that that form is inherently an old reduplicated form, po- being the
> reduplicate suffix, and that at the Proto-Nahuatl level, there was
> probably a verb in the form *po:ca.
> If this is correct, then the straight translation would be 'mirror-it
> smokes', which is pretty much what everyone has always said the name
> meant, 'smoking mirror'.
> Quoting John Sullivan :
> > Piyali Tezo huan ne cequin listeros,
> > Are there many intransitive/transitive pairs in -ca/-tza besides the
> > reduplicatives?
> > John
> > On Nov 22, 2011, at 12:45 PM, Mr Tezozomoc wrote:
> >> Tezca-tl(i): Mirror
> >> *ihpoca: to burp
> >> Intransitive ihpoca is only attested in Tezcatlihpoca. It's meaning
> >> is taken from what would be it's transitive pair, Ihpotza.
> >> The reason why it's 1. it''s glyph, 2. ihpoca is similar to popoca:
> >> to smoke 3. a possible extened meaning burp/ belch/ puff
> >> this analysis was given to me by Huitzilmazatzin....
> >> Tezozomoc.
> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 7:37 AM, John Sullivan wrote:
> >> Listeros,
> >> How about some morphology for tezcatlipoca?
> >> John
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