tezcatlipoca

[Richard BUDELBERGER]

Dear Listeros,

Avez-vous lu Christian Duverger ? « L'Origine des Aztèques », Le Seuil, 1983 p. 193 ou 2003 p. 211, note 2. Une entorse au droit d'auteur... :

— http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=%22bien+que+l%27usage%22+
— http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=popocatezcatl
— http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=tequi
— fumée. Reste à traduire la syllabe -tli qui ne peut appartenir au radical tezcatl, le -tl final tombant lorsqu'un substantif entre en combinaison. On peut probablement la lire comme équivalente de tle, de tletl, feu. D'une part nous avons plusieurs évidences de transcription tlitl pour « feu » ; d'autre part le dictionnaire de Molina connaît le verbe tlepopoca « tener gran calor o calentura » (part II, p. 147 vº). Tezcatlipoca
— http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=%22magique+et+parabolique%22

tletl/tlitl comme Tlatelolco/Tlatilolco ?



> Message du 22/11/11 23:15
> De : "Michael McCafferty" 
> A : nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> Copie à : 
> Objet : Re: [Nahuat-l] tezcatlipoca
> 
> John:
> 
> I looked through the archives and figured finally that it was 
> "Teotihuacan" not "Tezcatlipoca" that was discussed. Sorry for the 
> mistaken reference.
> 
> Tezozomoc's explanation is found in Karttunen's dictionary. I'm not 
> entranced by it.
> 
> Here's what I think is happening with "Tezcatlipoca". (If Joe cringes, 
> I will be able to feel it from afar.)
> 
> I think the name is Proto-Nahuatl. In other words, I think it's a very 
> old name, and this evidenced by the noun form for "mirror," *te:zcatli, 
> which would be an older form of te:zcatl.
> 
> The modern verb meaning 'smoke' is of course popo:ca, but it seems to 
> me that that form is inherently an old reduplicated form, po- being the 
> reduplicate suffix, and that at the Proto-Nahuatl level, there was 
> probably a verb in the form *po:ca.
> 
> If this is correct, then the straight translation would be 'mirror-it 
> smokes', which is pretty much what everyone has always said the name 
> meant, 'smoking mirror'.
> 
> 
> Michael
> 
> Quoting John Sullivan :
> 
> > Piyali Tezo huan ne cequin listeros,
> > Are there many intransitive/transitive pairs in -ca/-tza besides the
> > reduplicatives?
> > John
> >
> > On Nov 22, 2011, at 12:45 PM, Mr Tezozomoc wrote:
> >
> >> Tezca-tl(i): Mirror
> >> *ihpoca: to burp
> >> Intransitive ihpoca is only attested in Tezcatlihpoca. It's meaning
> >> is taken from what would be it's transitive pair, Ihpotza.
> >> The reason why it's 1. it''s glyph, 2. ihpoca is similar to popoca:
> >> to smoke 3. a possible extened meaning burp/ belch/ puff
> >>
> >> this analysis was given to me by Huitzilmazatzin....
> >>
> >> Tezozomoc.
> >>
> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 7:37 AM, John Sullivan wrote:
> >> Listeros,
> >> How about some morphology for tezcatlipoca?
> >> John
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