tezcatlipoca

[Michael McCafferty]

Richard,

Je crois ce que dit Duverger marcherait, pourvu que *po:ca ait existe a 
cote de popo:ca. Si l'hypothese de Duverger soit correcte, 
*te:zcatlepo:ca ressemblerait grammaticalement a cua:uhtemo:c, et 
signifierait << il fume comme un miroir de pierre >>

Bien a vous,

Michael


[I believe what Duverger is saying would work, so long as *po:ca 
existed alongside popo:ca. If Duverger's supposition is correct, 
*te:zcatlepo:ca would resemble cua:uhtemo:c grammatically, and would 
mean "he smokes like a stone mirror".}




Quoting Richard BUDELBERGER <budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr>:

> Dear Listeros,
>
> Avez-vous lu Christian Duverger ? « L'Origine des Aztèques », Le
> Seuil, 1983 p. 193 ou 2003 p. 211, note 2. Une entorse au droit
> d'auteur... :
>
> ?
> http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=%22bien+que+l%27usage%22+
> ? http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=popocatezcatl
> ? http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=tequi
> ? fumée. Reste à traduire la syllabe -tli qui ne peut appartenir au
> radical tezcatl, le -tl final tombant lorsqu'un substantif entre en
> combinaison. On peut probablement la lire comme équivalente de tle,
> de tletl, feu. D'une part nous avons plusieurs évidences de
> transcription tlitl pour « feu » ; d'autre part le dictionnaire de
> Molina connaît le verbe tlepopoca « tener gran calor o calentura »
> (part II, p. 147 vº). Tezcatlipoca
> ?
> http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=%22magique+et+parabolique%22
>
> tletl/tlitl comme Tlatelolco/Tlatilolco ?
>
>
>
>> Message du 22/11/11 23:15
>> De : "Michael McCafferty"
>> A : nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> Copie à :
>> Objet : Re: [Nahuat-l] tezcatlipoca
>>
>> John:
>>
>> I looked through the archives and figured finally that it was
>> "Teotihuacan" not "Tezcatlipoca" that was discussed. Sorry for the
>> mistaken reference.
>>
>> Tezozomoc's explanation is found in Karttunen's dictionary. I'm not
>> entranced by it.
>>
>> Here's what I think is happening with "Tezcatlipoca". (If Joe cringes,
>> I will be able to feel it from afar.)
>>
>> I think the name is Proto-Nahuatl. In other words, I think it's a very
>> old name, and this evidenced by the noun form for "mirror," *te:zcatli,
>> which would be an older form of te:zcatl.
>>
>> The modern verb meaning 'smoke' is of course popo:ca, but it seems to
>> me that that form is inherently an old reduplicated form, po- being the
>> reduplicate suffix, and that at the Proto-Nahuatl level, there was
>> probably a verb in the form *po:ca.
>>
>> If this is correct, then the straight translation would be 'mirror-it
>> smokes', which is pretty much what everyone has always said the name
>> meant, 'smoking mirror'.
>>
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> Quoting John Sullivan :
>>
>> > Piyali Tezo huan ne cequin listeros,
>> > Are there many intransitive/transitive pairs in -ca/-tza besides the
>> > reduplicatives?
>> > John
>> >
>> > On Nov 22, 2011, at 12:45 PM, Mr Tezozomoc wrote:
>> >
>> >> Tezca-tl(i): Mirror
>> >> *ihpoca: to burp
>> >> Intransitive ihpoca is only attested in Tezcatlihpoca. It's meaning
>> >> is taken from what would be it's transitive pair, Ihpotza.
>> >> The reason why it's 1. it''s glyph, 2. ihpoca is similar to popoca:
>> >> to smoke 3. a possible extened meaning burp/ belch/ puff
>> >>
>> >> this analysis was given to me by Huitzilmazatzin....
>> >>
>> >> Tezozomoc.
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 7:37 AM, John Sullivan wrote:
>> >> Listeros,
>> >> How about some morphology for tezcatlipoca?
>> >> John
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