Molina's Lost Soul.....
Campbell, R. Joe
campbel at indiana.edu
Sat Dec 7 04:24:37 UTC 2013
Mr. Tezozomoctzin ihuan occequi nocnihuan,
This message gives me hope that Nahuat-l can and may function as a
forum for discussing problems about Nahuatl, particularly word
formation ( |8-) ).
First, the word "teyoiatl". My guess is that this an addition by
Simeon, and as you hint, not in Molina. Although Simeon based his
dictionary mainly on Molina, he *did* add words, and my suspicion is
that he formed "teyoliatl" to "teyolia" on the analogy of "ahuiani-tl"
(words formed with "-ni" function comfortably as nouns, although they
dance on the borderline between verbs and nouns).
I have been assuming that "teyolia" was an instrumental noun,
parallel to "ipatlania" (its fin, its means of 'flying'). Therefore,
the initial "te-" of "teyolia" is a possessive prefix rather than an
object, which is consistent with the intransitive verb stem "yoli".
"te-yoli-ya" = someone's means of living??
The following list contains all the instrumental -ya occurrences
that I have identified so far. As you can see, it is still rough,
still in need of spelling refinement.
Saludos,
Joe
*ya1 ***
ahciya , amotetech- (amotetechacia). your [pl.] means of approaching
people. <poss-poss-tech1-ahci-ya1 +del.y>. b.12 f.1 p.15|
ahcoquizaya , i- (jacoquj‡aia). his exaltation. <poss-ahco-qui:za-
ya1>. b.6 f.2 p.26|
ahcoquizaya , n[o]- (nacoquj‡aia). my exaltation. <poss-ahco-qui:za-
ya1>. b.6 f.1 p.9|
anaya , ine- (ineanaia). her waist band. <poss-p53-a:na1-ya1>. b.2
f.8 p.138|
atlia , t[o]- (tatlia). mustache; our mustache. <poss-a:tl1-i:1-ya1>.
b.10 f.8 p.137b|
atlia =to (t[o]atlia). bigotes; bigotes dela barba; bozo de barua.
<poss-a:tl1-i:1-ya1>. 55m-2|
caquia , motla- (motlacaquja). your hearing organ. <poss-p51-caqui-
ya1>. b.6 f.10 p.122|
caquia =pactica in notla (pactica in notlacaquia). iuizio bueno tener
y sano. <pa:qui-prt1-ti1-ca:1a in poss-p51-caqui-ya1 aux11a
+phrase>. 71m1-132|
caquia =pactica in notla (pactica in^notlacaquia). sano de juyzio;
tener sano el juizio el que esta enfermo. <pa:qui-prt1-ti1-ca:1a in
poss-p51-caqui-ya1 aux11a +phrase>. 71m1-191|
caquiya , ahtotla- (atotlacaquja). . <ah1-poss-p51-caqui-ya1 +del.y>.
b.6 f.11 p.137|
celiloya , tla- (tlaceliloia). place for receiving. <p51-ceya-delya-
ben-lo:2-ya1>. b.10 f.6 p.107a|
cemilhuitiaya , i- (ycemjlhujtiaia). his daily sustenance. <poss-cem-
ilhuitl-v07-ya1>. b.4 f.4 p.37|
cemilhuitiaya , i- (icemilhujtiaia). his daily sustenance. <poss-cem-
ilhuitl-v07-ya1>. b.4 f.12 p.125|
cempapaquiliztiaya in dios =ite (itecempapaquiliztiaya in dios). la
bienauenturanza y gloria sempiterna que da nuestro se¤or dios. <poss-
p52-cem-dupl-pa:qui-liz-v04-caus08-ya1 in ++dios +spanish>. 71m2-7|
cencuiltonoaya in dios =ite (itecencuiltonoaya in dios). la
bienauenturanza y gloria sempiterna que da nuestro se¤or dios
(idem). <poss-p52-cem-cuilto:noa:-ya1 in ++dios +spanish>. 71m2-7|
centlahmachtiaya in dios =ite (itecentlahmachtiaya in dios). la
bienauenturanza y gloria sempiterna que da nuestro se¤or dios
(idem). <poss-p52-cem-p51-ih2-mati-l2-v04-caus08-ya1 in ++dios +t>ch
+spanish>. 71m2-7|
cetiliaya =note (notecetiliaya). el medio que tengo para hazer de dos
cosas vna, juntando las ambas ados. <poss-p52-cem-v01a-caus04-ya1>.
71m2-13|
chichihuaya , intla- (intlachichioaia). their tools for ornamenting.
<poss-p51-dupl-chi:hua-ya1>. b.9 f.7 p.91|
ciaya =to (tociaya). nuestra voluntad, o querer. <poss-ceya-ya1 +e>i
+del.y>. 71m2-25|
ciyaya =no (nociaya). mi voluntad o querer. <poss-ceya-ya1 +del.y>.
71m2-12|
cochiya , to- (tocochia). our eyelashes. <poss-cochi-ya1 +del.y>.
b.10 f.6 p.102a|
cochiya =to (tocochia). las pesta¤as; pesta¤a. <poss-cochi-ya1
+del.y>. 71m2-4|
cochiyatl (cochiatl). las pesta¤as; pesta¤a. <cochi-ya1-tl +del.y>.
71m2-4|
cocochiya =to (tococochia). las pesta¤as; pesta¤a. <poss-dupl-cochi-
ya1 +del.y>. 71m2-25|
cohuaya , itla- (itlacoaia). his means of buying. <poss-p51-co:hua-
ya1 +del.w>. b.3 f.1 p.9|
coyonya =to (busca ijada (found yjada,parte del cuerpo) |
tocoyonya |
|
busca ijada (found yjada,parte del cuerpo)). hijada. <poss-coyo:ni--
ya1 +ret.n>. 71m1-131|
cuauhquechtlahuilanaya =cuacuahuehqueh in (cuacuahuehqueh
incuauhquechtlahuilanaya). yugo para u¤ir; yugo para v¤ir; yugo
para v¤ir bueyes. <cua:itl-cuahuitl-e:1-prt4-plur14 poss-cuahuitl-
quechtli-p51-huila:na-ya1 +phrase.poss +phrase +ev.verb.21>. 55m-
12|
cuauhtlalpiaya , i- (iquauhtlalpiaya). his eagle head band. <poss-
cua:uhtli-p51-ilpi-caus08=0-ya1>. b.8 f.5 p.87|
cuaya , intla- (jntlaquaia). their dishes. <poss-p51-cua:-ya1>. b.1
f.3 p.49|
cuaya , ite- (itequaia). its mouth, its means of devouring people;
its organ for eating people. <poss-p52-cua:-ya1 +min>. b.11 f.1
p.6|
cuaya , totla- (totlaquaia). our place for eating. <poss-p51-cua:-
lo:2-ya1>. b.10 f.6 p.107a|
elimiquia cuacuahueh =i (ielimiquia cuacuahueh). arado. <poss-
e:limiqui-ya1 cua:itl-cuahuitl-e:1-prt4 +phrase.poss +phrase>. 55m-
1|
elimiquia =cuacuahueh i (cuacuahueh ielimiquia). arado; reja de
arado. <cua:itl-cuahuitl-e:1-prt4 poss-e:limiqui-ya1 +phrase.poss
+phrase>. 71m1-022|
huelmatia , totla- (totlauelmatia). our place of tasting. <poss-p51-
huel1-mati-ya1>. b.10 f.6 p.107b|
huelmatia =totla (totlahuelmatia). el sentido del gusto. <poss-p51-
huel1-mati-ya1>. 71m2-26|
huitequia , itla- (itlaujtequja). its beak. <poss-p51-hui:tequi-ya1>.
b.2 f.5 p.94|
[i]czaya , itla- (jtlac‡aia). his walking staff. <poss-p51-icza-ya1>.
b.1 f.2 p.43|
[i]czaya , itla- (ytlac‡aia). his traveling staff. <poss-p51-icza-
ya1>. b.1 f.2 p.44|
[i]czaya , totla- (totlac‡aia). our pressing place. <poss-p51-icza-
ya1>. b.10 f.7 p.122b|
iczaya =totla (totla[i]czaya). la planta del pie; pata o planta del
pie; planta del pie. <poss-p51-icza-ya1>. 71m2-26|
iczayatl =tla (tla[i]czayatl) [scribal error: ??note unusual
absolutive on the -ya suffix: 55m]. pata o planta del pie. <p51-
icza-ya1-tl>. 55m-15|
iczayatl =tla (tla[i]czayatl). pata o planta del pie. <p51-icza-ya1-
tl>. 71m1-162|
iczayatl =tla (tla[i]czayatl) [scribal error: ??note absolutive:
71m2]. pata o planta del pie. <p51-icza-ya1-tl>. 71m2-20|
ihcuiloa =notlalnamiquiya niqu (notlalnamiquiya niquihcuiloa).
escreuir por minuta. <poss-p51-illi-na:miqui-ya1 p11-p33-ihcuilli-
v03a-caus06>. 55m-8|
[i]hnecuia , totla- (totla>necuia). our sense of smell. <poss-p51-
ihnecui-ya1>. b.10 f.6 p.104a|
ihnecuiya =totla (totla[i]hnecuiya). el sentido del oler. <poss-p51-
ihnecui-ya1>. 71m2-26|
ilnamiquia =totla (totla[i]lnamiquia). memoria. <poss-p51-illi-
na:miqui-ya1>. 55m-13|
ilnamiquiya niquihcuiloa =notla (notlalnamiquiya niquihcuiloa).
escreuir por minuta. <poss-p51-illi-na:miqui-ya1 p11-p33-ihcuilli-
v03a-caus06>. 71m1-102|
[i]tquia , intla- (jntlatquja). . <poss-p51-itqui-ya1>. b.4 f.6
p.60|
ixtlahuaya =notla (notla[i]xtlahuaya). paga, lo que doy para pagar lo
que deuo. <poss-p51-ixtla:hui-v09-ya1>. 71m1-162|
mactia , i- (imactia). . <poss-maca-l2-v04-ya1>. b.1 f.2 p.33|
mactia , ine- (inemactia). ; it became his gift. <poss-p53-maca-l2-
v04-ya1>. b.4 f.6 p.54|
mahpilhuiaya =tote (totemahpilhuiaya). dedo con que mostramos algo;
el dedo con que mostramos; o se¤alamos algo. <poss-p52-ma:itl-pilli-
v05b-ya1>. 55m-4|
mamaya , intla- (jntlamamaia). . <poss-p51-ma:ma:-ya1>. b.4 f.6
p.60|
manahuiaya =none (nonemanahuiaya). mi amparo, o defensa, mis armas, o
mi mierda. <poss-p53-ma:nahuia:1-manahuia2-ya1>. 71m2-12|
mapatlaya , ine- (inemapatlaia). her defense. <poss-p53-ma:itl-patla1-
ya1>. b.2 f.10 p.158|
matcanemitiaya =notetla (notetlamatcanemitiaya). la paz conque yo
hago biuir en paz alos otros. <poss-p52-p51-mati-prt1-ca:6-nemi-
caus02-ya1>. 71m2-13|
matcanemitiaya in dios =itetla (itetlamatcanemitiaya in dios). la paz
de nuestro se¤or. <poss-p52-p51-mati-prt1-ca:6-nemi-caus02-ya1-in-
++dios +spanish +phrase.poss +phrase>. 71m2-7|
matia , tone- (tonematia). our sense of feeling. <poss-p53-mati-ya1>.
b.10 f.8 p.135a|
matia , tonehneh- (tone>ne>matia). our senses. <poss-dupl-p53-mati-
ya1>. b.10 f.8 p.135a|
matocaya =totla (totlamatocaya). el sentido del palpar. <poss-p51-
ma:itl-toca2-ya1>. 71m2-26|
maya , itla- (jtlamaia). its mouth. <poss-p51-ma:1-ya1>. b.11 f.1
p.6|
maya , itlahtla- (jtla>tlamaia). its jaws. <poss-dupl-p51-ma:1-ya1
+fusion>. b.11 f.1 p.6|
minaya =xicohtli ite (xicohtli iteminaya). aguijon de aueja; aguijon
de abeja. <xi:cohtli poss-p52-mi:tl-v14-caus09-ya1 +phrase.poss
+phrase>. 55m-002|
namiquia , inte- (intenamjquja). their greeting [gift], their means
of greeting. <poss-p52-na:miqui-ya1>. b.12 f.1 p.13|
nelohuaya , itla- (jtlanelooaia). its rower. <poss-p51-nelihui-caus06-
ya1 +insert.w>. b.11 f.6 p.58|
nenemia , i[n]- (inenemja). their means of traveling. <poss-dupl-nemi-
ya1>. b.1 f.2 p.41|
nequia =notla (notlanequia). mi voluntad, o mi querer. <poss-p51-
nequi-ya1>. 71m2-13|
nequia =totla (totlanequia). nuestra voluntad, o querer. <poss-p51-
nequi-ya1>. 71m2-26|
ohtlatocaya , i- (ivtlatocaia). his wherewithal for the journey.
<poss-ohtli-p51-toca2-ya1 +fusion>. b.4 f.2 p.17|
ohtlatocaya , i- (iotlatocaia). his trail rations, his means of
living on the road. <poss-ohtli-p51-toca2-ya1 +fusion>. b.4 f.12
p.125|
ohtlatocaya , im- (jmotlatocaia). their means of traveling. <poss-
ohtli-p51-toca2-ya1 +fusion>. b.1 f.2 p.41|
papatlaya , ine- (ynepapatlaia). his turn. <poss-p53-dupl-patla1-
ya1>. b.2 f.3 p.80|
papatlaya , inne- (jnnepapatlaia). their turn. <poss-p53-dupl-patla1-
ya1>. b.2 f.3 p.80|
patlania , i- (ipatlania). its fin. <poss-patla:ni-ya1>. b.9 f.6
p.74|
patlania , i- (jpatlanja). its place of flight, its means of flying;
its swimmer; its fin. <poss-patla:ni-ya1>. b.11 f.6 p.55|
patlania , i- (ipatlanja). its flying part. <poss-patla:ni-ya1>. b.11
f.9 p.89|
patlania , i- (jpatlanja). its means of flying. <poss-patla:ni-ya1>.
b.11 f.10 p.100|
polihuia , i- (jpolivia). his destruction. <poss-polihui-ya1>. b.6
f.3 p.29|
polihuia , no- (nopoliuja). my destruction. <poss-polihui-ya1>. b.6
f.1 p.9|
polihuiya , i- (jpolivia). his destruction. <poss-polihui-ya1
+del.y>. b.6 f.2 p.26|
quen ca in notlacaquia =ahmo (ahmo quen^ca in^notlacaquia). iuizio
bueno tener y sano; sano de juyzio. <ah1-mo: que:n1 ca:1a in poss-
p51-caqui-ya1 +phrase>. 71m1-132|
quen ca in notlacaquia =ahmo (ahmo quen^ca in notlacaquia). tener
sano y entero el juyzio. <ah1-mo: que:n1 ca:1a in poss-p51-caqui-ya1
+phrase>. 71m2-1|
telicza , tla- (tlatelic‡a). it kicks something. <p51-tel?-icza-ya1>.
b.10 f.7 p.127b|
teliczaya , totla- (totlatelic‡aia). our kicking places. <poss-p51-
tel?-icza-ya1>. b.10 f.7 p.127a|
temoya , i- (itemoia). his way of coming down, his path of coming
down. <poss-temo:-ya1>. b.2 f.14 p.240|
tenamiquia , amo- (amotenamjquja). your [pl.] greeting [gift], your
[pl.] means of greeting. <poss-p52-na:miqui-ya1>. b.12 f.1 p.15|
tlacaanaya , ite- (itetlacaanaia). his way of hunting people; its
organ for hunting people. <poss-p52-tla:catl-a:na1-ya1>. b.11 f.7
p.69|
tlacahuapahuaya , in- (jntlacaoapaoaia). . <poss-tla:catl-huapa:hua-
ya1>. b.4 f.6 p.60|
tlacatocaya , i- (itlacatocaia). . <poss-tla:catl-to:ca:itl-ya1>. b.4
f.2 p.13|
tlacazcaltiaya , in- (jntlacazcaltiaia). . <poss-tla:catl-izcalli-v11-
caus08-ya1>. b.4 f.6 p.60|
tlachiyaya , ahto- (atotlachiaia). . <ah1-poss-tlachiya-ya1 +del.y>.
b.6 f.11 p.137|
tlachiyaya , i- (ytlachiaia). his device for seeing. <poss-tlachiya-
ya1 +del.y +ret.y>. b.1 f.2 p.34|
tlachiyayan , ahto- (atotlachiaia). . <ah1-poss-tlachiya-ya1 +del.y
+del.n>. b.6 f.12 p.143|
tlaczaya , to- (totlac‡aia). our place of pushing. <poss-p51-icza-
ya1>. b.10 f.7 p.115a|
tlaczaya , totla- (totlatlac‡aia). our pressing places. <poss-dupl-
p51-icza-ya1>. b.10 f.8 p.135a|
tlahpaloaya , inte- (jntetlapaloaia). their greetings; their
greeting. <poss-p52-tlahpalli-v03a-caus06-ya1>. b.4 f.9 p.88|
tlahuanaya , in- (intlaoanaia). their drinking vessel. <poss-
tla:hua:na-ya1>. b.4 f.11 p.118|
tlahuelcuia , to- (totlauelcuja). our anger. <poss-tlahue:lli-cui-
ya1>. b.10 f.8 p.131b|
tlahuelnamiquia =note= (tlahuelnamiquia =note=). mi contencion o
contradicion, con que contra digo y peleo contra otros. <tlahue:lli-
na:miqui-ya1>. 71m2-25|
tlahuilanaya =cuacuahuehqueh in (cuacuahuehqueh intlahuilanaya). yugo
para u¤ir; yugo para v¤ir; yugo para v¤ir bueyes. <cua:itl-cuahuitl-
e:1-prt4-plur14 poss-p51-huila:na-ya1 +phrase.poss +phrase
+ev.verb.21>. 55m-12|
tlaliaya , tone- (tonetlaliaia). our sitting place. <poss-p53-
tla:lia:-ya1>. b.10 f.7 p.122b|
tlatlalia , to- (Totlatlalia). our stomach. <poss-p51-tla:lia:-ya1>.
b.10 f.9 p.155|
tlatlaliaya , to- (totlatlaliaia). our stomach. <poss-p51-tla:lia:-
ya1>. b.10 f.9 p.155|
tlatlaliaya =to (totlatlaliaya). el estomago. <poss-p51-tla:lia:-
ya1>. 71m2-26|
tlatoloaya =no= (tlatoloaya =no=). mi tragadero o gaznate. <p51-
to:loa:-ya1>. 71m2-24|
tlatoloaya =to (totlatoloaya). el gaznate, o tragadero. <poss-p51-
to:loa:-ya1>. 71m2-26|
tlatzihuia , i- (itlatzivia). his aversion. <poss-tlatzihui-ya1>. b.6
f.13 p.154|
tzatzahtzia =to= (tzatzahtzia =to=). la olla dela garganta, oel
gritadero. <dupl-tzahtzi-ya1>. 71m2-26|
tzopaya , i- (itzopaia). her weaving stick. <poss-tzopi--ya1>. b.2
f.8 p.138|
yolia =te (teyolia). alma o anima; anima de alguno; anima o alma; el
alma; o anima. <poss-yo:lli-v13-ya1>. 55m-002|
yolia =to (toyolia). alma, o anima; anima o alma. <poss-yo:lli-v13-
ya1>. 71m2-25|
yolia icocoliz =to (toyolia icocoliz). passion del anima; passion de
anima. <poss-yo:lli-v13-ya1 poss-cocoya-delya-liz +phrase.poss
+phrase>. 55m-15|
yolnonotzaya niquihcuiloa =none (noneyolnonotzaya niquihcuiloa).
escreuir por minuta. <poss-p53-yo:lli-dupl-no:tza-ya1 p11-p33-
ihcuilli-v03a-caus06>. 55m-8|
morpheme count 166
"Mr. Tezozomoc" <tezozomoc at hotmail.com>:
> In the
> Nahuatl to Spanish side of Molina's dictionary we read: "Teyolia. el alma, o
> anima." But, did we believe in a soul? On the
> surface, teyoliatl looks like a noun. If we try to break it down we
> get teyoli
> and atl, ATL, water. So we say "okay, it's some kind of water".
>
> yoli
> looks like the verb YOLi, to live. So now we think it must some how
> be related
> to aguas vivas, and te must be TE, some one, people.
>
> But yoli
> cannot be YOLi because YOLi is intransitive and cannot take, the object
> TE.
> We could
> say teyoli is TEYOLiH, the preterit of TEYOLiA, to make some one live.
>
> But verbs
> are connected to nouns by CA. So we should expect TEYOLiHCAATL We're way off!
> Besides, life is YOLiZTLi. Let's take a different approach.
>
> What if
> it's not a noun? What if it's a verb disguised as a noun?
> If we
> remove the noun marker we're left with teyolia. This looks like a transitive
> verb YoLiA or YOLiA, with the nonspecific human object TE.
> I haven't
> come upon such a verb. But there are many i/iA verb pairs (aQUi/aQUiA,
> OLINi/OLINiA, iHUiNTi/iHUiNTiA, etc).
>
> So, we
> could say there might be a pair YOLi/YOLiA. Then, TEYOLiA would meen
> "it makes
> people live". And, TEYOLiATL would be the thing that makes people live.
>
> That's
> not how you nominalize verbs. If there was a verb YOLiA, we'd get 4 agentive
> nouns: TEYOLiHQUi, TEYOLiANi, TEYOLIZQUi, and YOLIZTLi. But not
> TEYOLiATL.
>
> In the
> Spanish to Nahuatl section of Molina's dictionary we read: "Alma o anima.
> teyolia, teyolitia, teanima."
>
> teyolia
> would be TEYOLiA, he/she makes make people live. But not even Molina
> has a verb
> YOLiA.
>
> And don't
> even think teyolia could be someone's YOLiA, 'cause this would be
> TEYOLiAUH.
> teyolitia
> is TEYOLITiA, he/she makes people live. YOLi has 2 causative forms:
> YOLiLTiA and
> YOLITiA. But not YOLiA.
>
> teanima
> is a Spanish/Nahuatl hybrid. It'd meen someone's soul.The use of
> Spanish anima
> indicates this is a foreign concept.
>
> The
> frailes used Spanhuatl for foreign things. Like peral quauitl, pear
> tree; hicox,
> fig; tiox, god; angelotin, angels; colos, cross; etc.
>
> All the
> early grammarians were frailes. That's why we find alma, confesion, pecado,
> fiesta de guardar, bautismo, salvacion, dios, etc.
>
> We have
> to consider that some terms may have been coined to answer como se
> dice esto o
> aquello.
>
> Simeon
> also has teyoliatl. But he based his dictionary on Molina's.
>
> Bierhorst
> doesn't have it. Which meens it's not used in the Cantares. Karttunen doesn't
> have it either. Which meens she couldn't make sense of it.
>
> "Ex Nihilo"
> It seems,
> at least to me, that teyoliatl is a word invented to name something
> the friars
> were describing.
> The
> foreignness of the concept is reflected in its ungrammatical construction.
>
>
> From Ruben Ramirez "Huitzilmazatzin"
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
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>
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