name for a lime kiln

[John Sullivan]

Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
	Another element in Tlaxcallan Nahuatl's leftward stress movement is the absolutive forms of nouns traditionally ending in -li. So we have tlaxcal, "tortilla", tlecol, "charcoal", tlaol, "corn kernels", tamal, "tamal", etc. with the accent on the penultimate syllable.
	I have a question. Is the process of final vowel degredation as seen in -ca/que/qui/c/Ø, -tla/tle/tli/tl/Ø, -hua/hue/hui/uh/Ø the result of leftward stress movement, or is it the other way around?
John

On Mar 19, 2013, at 5:12 AM, "Campbell, R. Joe" <campbel at indiana.edu> wrote:

> Michael, John, and all,
> 
>  I have spent a good deal of time (not recently) with a good friend who speaks Tlaxcallan Nahuatl.  We focused on the leftward stress movement at one point and discussed words such at "tlacualiztl" and "tzotzomahtl".  My phonetic memory is that there were no final voiceless [i]'s, even ones that were hard to hear |8-) ...
> 
>  Another argument for the lack of a final voiceless vowel segment in these words is that the stress moves one syllable to the left and the integrity of the penultimate stress pattern is maintained by the *dropping* of the final vowel. The maintenance of a final voiceless vowel would create an irregular stress pattern.
> 
>  BUT the strongest evidence for the lack of final voiceless vowels is that they are not there -- not audible.  I have a collection of recordings from various dialects of Spanish that contain a number of examples of voiceless vowels -- recordings which have been played hundreds of times and perceived by hundreds of phonetics students. A voiceless vowel is a segment that is perceivably high or low, front or back, rounded or unrounded, etc. -- in other words, it has all the characteristics of the corresponding voiced vowel except voicing.
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> Quoting Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu>:
> 
>> John,
>> 
>> I wonder there is in fact a devoiced /i/ that is hard to hear..
>> 
>> Michael
>> 
>> 
>> Quoting John Sullivan <idiez at me.com>:
>> 
>>> Modern Tlaxcallan Nahuatl has "nemiliztl", tlacualiztl, etc., with
>>> the accent on the penultimate syllable.
>>> John
>>> 
>>> On Mar 17, 2013, at 10:30 PM, Michael McCafferty
>>> <mmccaffe at indiana.edu> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Let me rephrase (re-ihcuiloa) what I said, as I was typing too fast:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> As I mentioned to Tom off-list last week, he may have an "L"
>>>> dialect, and needs to find that out.
>>>> 
>>>> Since the basic morpheme for 'grass' is /xiw-/, it does not seem
>>>> impossible for a dialect to reanalyze this term as /xiwtli/ (or
>>>> /xiwli/ in an "L" dialect), as there are commonly used terms that
>>>> end in /-xiwtli/ such as icxiuhtli and huexiuhtli that would serve
>>>> as a basis and stimulation for such a reanalysis.
>>>> 
>>>> (It would be very odd for xihuitl to be reanalyzed as *xiuhtl
>>>> because of those two consonants /?/ (glottal stop) and /tl/ coming
>>>> up against each other. A reanalysis would much more likely result in
>>>> *xiuhtli.)
>>>> 
>>>> If reanalysis has occurred, then what Tom could be essentially
>>>> 'xiuhtli itempa(n)', 'on the grass's lip', which mirrors the Spanish
>>>> translation he was given.
>>>> 
>>>> Michael
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
> 

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