From master.fle.1 at gmail.com Thu Oct 9 13:57:24 2025 From: master.fle.1 at gmail.com (Christophe dos Santos) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2025 06:57:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Deletion/addition/metathesis count constitency Message-ID: <948f13a2-7428-424f-86ff-34faace96cddn@googlegroups.com> Dear Greg and Yvan, I just wanted to report a strange count from Phon. The target (non)-word is /filpa/. The actual production is [flipa]. For this word, the only errors that were reported are : The deletion of [i]. The epenthesis of an [i]. No migration/metathesis is reported for that record. No error was reported for /l/ even though the sound is in the same situation as [i]. I suppose Phon worked from left to right and detected the deletion of the [i]. During the alignment process, /l/ took the place of the deleted [i]. Then, /l/ was in the right place and was not reported as deleted. Finally, after the production of [l], the insertion of [i] was detected. Regarding the lack of a reported migration or metathesis, I imagine that no check is made between a consonant and a vowel. I did not check if this inconsistency in the count (errors counted for [i] and not [l], no migration/metathesis) is limited to that non-word or if it applies to all words of the shape CV-Liquid.CV produced as C-Liquid-V.CV. I hope this makes sense to you and helps improve Phon. Best, Christophe dos Santos -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Phon" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to phon+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/phon/948f13a2-7428-424f-86ff-34faace96cddn%40googlegroups.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From yvan.rose at gmail.com Thu Oct 9 17:00:24 2025 From: yvan.rose at gmail.com (Yvan Rose) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2025 19:00:24 +0200 Subject: Deletion/addition/metathesis count constitency In-Reply-To: <948f13a2-7428-424f-86ff-34faace96cddn@googlegroups.com> References: <948f13a2-7428-424f-86ff-34faace96cddn@googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <4EFB5B92-8AFD-4B02-BA01-197DD8565319@gmail.com> Hi Christophe, Thank you, very much indeed for your input. If you could please send me the Phon file you're working with in a personal message (at yvan.rose at gmail.com). I'd like to see how we could address this. The detail that puzzles me is that vowels and consonants should normally not align with one another; else it's in the detection of the V-C inversion that there is an issue. On this count, please know that Phon should not detect this phone inversion as a metathesis, which we define as a consonant-to-consonant relation. Yet this doesn't mean the process shouldn't be capture. All the best, Yvan > On Oct 9, 2025, at 3:57?PM, Christophe dos Santos wrote: > > Dear Greg and Yvan, > > I just wanted to report a strange count from Phon. > > The target (non)-word is /filpa/. > The actual production is [flipa]. > > For this word, the only errors that were reported are : > The deletion of [i]. > The epenthesis of an [i]. > > No migration/metathesis is reported for that record. > No error was reported for /l/ even though the sound is in the same situation as [i]. > > I suppose Phon worked from left to right and detected the deletion of the [i]. During the alignment process, /l/ took the place of the deleted [i]. Then, /l/ was in the right place and was not reported as deleted. Finally, after the production of [l], the insertion of [i] was detected. > > Regarding the lack of a reported migration or metathesis, I imagine that no check is made between a consonant and a vowel. > > I did not check if this inconsistency in the count (errors counted for [i] and not [l], no migration/metathesis) is limited to that non-word or if it applies to all words of the shape CV-Liquid.CV produced as C-Liquid-V.CV. > > I hope this makes sense to you and helps improve Phon. > > Best, > > Christophe dos Santos > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Phon" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to phon+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com . > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/phon/948f13a2-7428-424f-86ff-34faace96cddn%40googlegroups.com . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Phon" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to phon+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/phon/4EFB5B92-8AFD-4B02-BA01-197DD8565319%40gmail.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: