[RNLD] basic audio recording gear

Thu Mar 28 23:25:01 UTC 2013

Hi
You're right about that Laura, I guess I meant to say more specifically that providing phones to use as recorders is tricky because of a range of reasons. I wouldn't want to be didactic about how devices are used and Im not overlooking the nuances of interaction and personal responsibility involved in providing project equipment for independent use. This is why Im trying to strike the right balance between quality and budget!

Perhaps 'quarantine' has the wrong connotations, bad word choice on the fly
Cheers Margaret 

On 29/03/2013, at 4:35 AM, "Laura Robinson" <lrobinson at linguistics.ucsb.edu> wrote:

> Margaret,
> 
> To follow up on the idea of audio recorders being "quarantined":
> 
> "So I'm looking to introduce devices that only record audio, because
> these are quarantined in a sense, less likely to be used for other
> things."
> 
> I have found that people have figured out how to turn a dedicated
> audio recorder (a cheap Olympus device, in this case) into a sort of
> mp3 player, simply by recording (non-traditional) music and then
> playing it back over the built-in speaker. There may be no device that
> is quarantined in the sense you are looking for if the users are
> clever with technology.
> 
> Cheers,
> Laura
> --
> Laura C. Robinson
> Visiting Assistant Professor
> Department of Linguistics
> University of California, Santa Barbara
> 
> 
> On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 9:46 AM, Anna Luisa Daigneault
> <annaluisa at livingtongues.org> wrote:
>> Just to respond about Olympus recorders, our team been using Olympus LS-10
>> and Olympus LS-10s digital audio recorders for the past 5 years and they are
>> the best recorders we have been able to find (we have tried many many
>> different brands and models). The price has come down, and now they are $179
>> USD, which is still expensive but they last a long time, are produce very
>> high-quality industry-standard recordings, better than most phones. Easy to
>> use, excellent microphone, perfect for hand-held use or on a tripod, and the
>> devices are good for rugged environments. I can't recommend them more!
>> 
>> http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=887058&is=REG&Q=&A=details
>> 
>> Anna Luisa
>> --
>> Anna Luisa Daigneault, M.Sc
>> Development Officer & Latin America Projects Coordinator
>> Enduring Voices Project | Voces Duraderas
>> Living Tongues Institute for Endangered Languages
>> Twitter: @livingtongues
>> 
>> Archivo Digital de la Memoria Yanesha | Arr Añño'tena Poeñotenaxhno Yanesha
>> www.yanesha.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 9:51 AM, Paul Trilsbeek <Paul.Trilsbeek at mpi.nl>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello all,
>>> 
>>> Generally I would advise strongly against buying a dictation device or
>>> "voice recorder", even though this particular Olympus WS-812 model does
>>> record uncompressed 16 bit 44.1 kHz audio. Olympus do have a range of very
>>> decent and durable audio recorders, the LS series:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> http://www.olympus.co.uk/site/en/a/audio_systems/audio_recording/fields_of_interest/high_end_music_recording/index.html
>>> 
>>> I'm not sure how much they cost in Australia at this point but the
>>> simplest models are not that expensive. We have a large number of the LS-10
>>> model (now discontinued) at MPI and they have proven to be reliable in the
>>> field and make good quality recordings.
>>> 
>>> We also have a few Zoom H4n recorders, they can also be recommended but
>>> are indeed more expensive and a bit heavier. They do accommodate the
>>> professional style XLR connectors as Steffen mentioned.
>>> 
>>> This particular website compares (and sells) various compact audio
>>> recorders (as well as dictation devices / voice recorders, so you should
>>> ignore those!). They've made recordings with several different devices at
>>> the same time so you can directly compare their recording quality. The site
>>> is in German but with the help of Google Translate I guess you can make some
>>> sense of it:
>>> 
>>> http://www.audiotranskription.de
>>> 
>>> Best regards,
>>> 
>>> Paul
>>> 
>>> On Mar 28, 2013, at 9:59 , 3/28/13, Steffen Haurholm-Larsen
>>> <shaurholml at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi Margaret,
>>>> 
>>>> I am not familiar with the Olympus products other than to say that I
>>>> have never heard language documentation experts / organizations recommend
>>>> them, whereas with the Zoom h4n and h1 I have. Personally I have good
>>>> experience with the h4n but as I understand it is both above your budget
>>>> range and in addition relatively heavy compared to the weight of both Zoom
>>>> h1 and what I imagine for the Olympus. On of the major differences between
>>>> the small ones you are talking about and recorders like the h4n is that the
>>>> latter has xlr-plugs which allows you to connect it to high end external
>>>> microphones.
>>>> For my next field season I am planning for the following (compromise)
>>>> setup for natural speech recording: Zoom h1 with a headset style dynamic
>>>> cardioid external microphone: the h1 will fit in virtually anybody's trouser
>>>> pocket and the headset mic will follow the movement of the mouth as it is
>>>> attached to the head of the speaker; this guarantees a constant distance
>>>> from mic to sound source which is a big plus for any recording I think, and
>>>> it allows the speaker more freedom of movement than a heavier table top
>>>> setup would Also, the setup is so light weight that it's presence is
>>>> minimally intrusive. The kind of headset mic you choose will again depend on
>>>> you budget, but you should go for a cardioid mic - a condenser mic would be
>>>> best but for this kind of setup you will probably have to settle for a
>>>> dynamic (no external power).
>>>> 
>>>> Best,
>>>> 
>>>> Steffen Haurholm-Larsen
>>>> Doktorand
>>>> Universität Bern, Schweiz
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 3:17 AM, Mat Bettinson <mat at plothatching.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Margaret,
>>>> 
>>>> "Providing new phones is also tricky because, they are phones, and get
>>>> used as such, and this would cycle back into the private domain. So I'm
>>>> looking to introduce devices that only record audio, because these are
>>>> quarantined in a sense, less likely to be used for other things."
>>>> 
>>>> This is a valuable insight, thanks for that. We have been looking at
>>>> providing new phones. Without SIM cards, so they don't really do anything
>>>> else *. That said, the general point about dedicated recorders being
>>>> "quarantined", virtually symbolic of the programme they are used for, is
>>>> certainly well taken. Food for thought.
>>>> 
>>>> * There is some interest from researchers in using connected phones (Eg.
>>>> with SIM cards) to record dialogue between people located remotely. Seems
>>>> questionable ethics wise to me but I may be missing a trick.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 28 March 2013 12:53, Margaret Carew <margaret.carew at batchelor.edu.au>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Hi
>>>> 
>>>> This is really interesting –  the BOLD website that I am familiar with
>>>> is a bit old now, so I wasn't up to date with these developments.
>>>> 
>>>> I know people who use their own phones to record for their own purposes,
>>>> especially at ceremonies . What we are trying to do is extend this practice,
>>>> and to introduce the notion of 'best practice'. This means recording the
>>>> best quality, recording basic metadata and contributing recordings so that
>>>> they can be curated and archived (also potentially used for other things
>>>> such as linguistic analysis and resource development).
>>>> 
>>>> Extending the current use of phones by promoting physical add ons such
>>>> as microphones seems at first glance, a bit tricky. There are a few reasons
>>>> for this, most related to the complex role that phones play in interpersonal
>>>> communication (worth its own study).  To curate the material means accessing
>>>> people's private phones which is fraught. Providing new phones is also
>>>> tricky because, they are phones, and get used as such, and this would cycle
>>>> back into the private domain. So I'm looking to introduce devices that only
>>>> record audio, because these are quarantined in a sense, less likely to be
>>>> used for other things. Part of what we are trying to do is raise the profile
>>>> of language documentation in North-Central Arnhem Land, a place where there
>>>> is a lot of local concern about language change, but no language centre and
>>>> few structured efforts at community based documentation work in  recent
>>>> years. Providing kits identified for language and cultural documentation is
>>>> one strategy towards this.
>>>> 
>>>> Regards
>>>> 
>>>> Margaret Carew
>>>> Project Linguist
>>>> Desert Peoples Centre, Alice Springs
>>>> Research, Teaching and Learning Division
>>>> Batchelor Institute of Indigenous Tertiary Education
>>>> 
>>>> tel: 08 8951 8344 | fax: 08 8951 8311
>>>> email:
>>>> margaret.carew at batchelor.edu.au<mailto:margaret.carew at batchelor.edu.au>  |
>>>> www.batchelor.edu.au<http://www.batchelor.edu.au/>
>>>> 
>>>> [cid:62C7A520-1D46-4659-809F-6392A5D1A8A5]
>>>> 
>>>> This email and any files transmitted with it are solely intended for the
>>>> use of the addressee(s) and may contain information that is confidential and
>>>> privileged. If you receive this email in error, please advise us by return
>>>> email immediately. Please also disregard the contents of the email, delete
>>>> it and destroy any copies immediately.
>>>> 
>>>> From: Mat Bettinson <mat at plothatching.com<mailto:mat at plothatching.com>>
>>>> Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 12:27:35 +1100
>>>> To: staff BIITE
>>>> <margaret.carew at batchelor.edu.au<mailto:margaret.carew at batchelor.edu.au>>
>>>> Cc: "r-n-l-d at lists.unimelb.edu.au<mailto:r-n-l-d at lists.unimelb.edu.au>"
>>>> <r-n-l-d at lists.unimelb.edu.au<mailto:r-n-l-d at lists.unimelb.edu.au>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [RNLD] basic audio recording gear
>>>> 
>>>> Margaret,
>>>> 
>>>> I can't recommend a cheap digital recorder of the type you mention,
>>>> other than suggesting a different class of device, particularly since you
>>>> mentioned BOLD:PNG.
>>>> 
>>>> As you may or may not know, BOLD:PNG moved on to using inexpensive
>>>> mobile phones and a custom Android application. 'Moved on' perhaps unfairly
>>>> suggests an upgrade with no drawbacks but that's probably not the case.
>>>> Steven Bird and Florian Hanke are on the pointy end of the project and may
>>>> correct this categorisation.
>>>> 
>>>> Using mobiles seems to be an excellent way to record certain genres such
>>>> as narratives but clearly aren't as suitable for having a third person
>>>> record dialogue between other interlocutors. Well, one can do that with a
>>>> phone too but it requires using an external microphone and interfacing
>>>> decent microphones to mobile phones is not exactly common.
>>>> 
>>>> I've been trying out add-on microphones to mixed success. There's no
>>>> technical impediment. Last year I rigged up a Sure SM57 microphone to an
>>>> Android smartphone with excellent results. I've yet to try it on a
>>>> directional boom-style condenser microphone. I did get poor results with one
>>>> or two models of super cheap Android phones but great results with a Huawei
>>>> U8150, about $70 delivered on ebay.
>>>> 
>>>> I would be interested to hear your thoughts on this. Do you think,
>>>> assuming the quality is up to scratch, that using phones with and without
>>>> add-on microphones would be suitable for your work?
>>>> 
>>>> Having some visibility on concerns and requirements in this regard would
>>>> be quite helpful in my research. I'd also like to make some recordings
>>>> available to back up claims about recording quality.
>>>> 
>>>> Additionally, mobile phones running interactive applications obviously
>>>> provide considerable other benefits. Not the least automatic recording of
>>>> meta data, synching of recordings wirelessly and of course the whole
>>>> re-speaking aspect of BOLD as implemented in Bird&Hanke's Aikuma application
>>>> (which is on Google Play right now).
>>>> 
>>>> I hope I haven't overstepped with this. I'm sure someone else will come
>>>> up with a more practical here and now suggestion.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 28 March 2013 11:22, Margaret Carew
>>>> <margaret.carew at batchelor.edu.au<mailto:margaret.carew at batchelor.edu.au>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Hi
>>>> 
>>>> I'm looking to buy a number of audio recorders for a project, working to
>>>> a similar concept to BOLD:PNG
>>>> http://www.boldpng.info/
>>>> 
>>>> The idea being that the recorders are provided to a few key people who
>>>> then record independently, and recordings are fed back into the central
>>>> project for curation (by me working with the team).
>>>> 
>>>> Budget is limited, and the cheaper the unit, the more we can buy. so I'm
>>>> looking at either Olympus WS-812 or the Zoom H-1, both priced under AUD$150.
>>>> 
>>>> Does anyone have any thoughts? I'm concerned the zoom unit might be
>>>> flimsy.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks
>>>> 
>>>> Margaret Carew
>>>> Project Linguist
>>>> Desert Peoples Centre, Alice Springs
>>>> Research, Teaching and Learning Division
>>>> Batchelor Institute of Indigenous Tertiary Education
>>>> 
>>>> tel: 08 8951 8344 | fax: 08 8951 8311
>>>> email:
>>>> margaret.carew at batchelor.edu.au<mailto:margaret.carew at batchelor.edu.au><mailto:margaret.carew at batchelor.edu.au<mailto:margaret.carew at batchelor.edu.au>>
>>>> |
>>>> www.batchelor.edu.au<http://www.batchelor.edu.au><http://www.batchelor.edu.au/>
>>>> 
>>>> [cid:62C7A520-1D46-4659-809F-6392A5D1A8A5]
>>>> 
>>>> This email and any files transmitted with it are solely intended for the
>>>> use of the addressee(s) and may contain information that is confidential and
>>>> privileged. If you receive this email in error, please advise us by return
>>>> email immediately. Please also disregard the contents of the email, delete
>>>> it and destroy any copies immediately.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Regards,
>>>> 
>>>> Mat Bettinson
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Regards,
>>>> 
>>>> Mat Bettinson
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Mange venlige hilsener,
>>>> 
>>>> Steffen
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Paul Trilsbeek
>>> Archive Manager
>>> The Language Archive
>>> Max Planck Institute for Psycholinguistics
>>> Wundtlaan 1
>>> 6525XD Nijmegen
>>> The Netherlands
>>> Tel. +31 24 3521203
>>> Fax +31 24 3521213
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 