on the Hunter posting

[Dr Yoshimasa Tsuji]

George Adassovsky wrote:
    No, it may certainly not. A "native speaker" is a person who  is recognised
    by national speakers as one of them, ans this may only be obtained by
    people who speak the given language since early childhood.
    No matter how long one have studied at university, and stayed in a foreign
    country, if he began the study of a language too late, he will never become
    a native speaker, and local people will always be able to perceive he is
    not really one of them.

My experience contradicts this. First of all what make one a true
"native speaker" is not necessarily an ability or a deep knowledge of
the given language. The criteror is completely different. If your
pronunciation (rhythm, enunciation, etc. all included) and the basic
knowledge of grammar is perfect, that is, if your command of the language
has reached the level of an eight year old user of the language, you will
be regarded as one of them. The reason why grown-ups do not acquire
"native level" command of the language is that they are usually not
interested in that sort of ability (being too busy learning special terms
in their own field of interest).
  I know very many people personally who speak more than one languages
with no trace of foreignness. Although it is very pleasant to speak
with them, I always notice that they rarely have the true command of the
language just as the majority of the other "native" speakers speak/write
quite unsatisfactorily. (I have observed students in Oxford and Tokyo
and have a conclusion that ordinary university students cannot speak/write
properly).
  On the other hand, as I watched Dr Donald Keen lecturing on Japanese
classic literature, I became deeply convinced that he has an incomparably
greater command of the Japanese language (his vocabulary being many times
greater) than myself even though his accent was very foreign. Koreans and
Mongolians will speak Japanese "like one of us" after a three year training,
but the vocabulary is usually poor (there are virtually no overlapping
of words with the Japanese language).

  What I should like to comment is this: if "native" means a skill in
pronuciation, you cannot teach pronunciation if you are not "native".
If "native" means the perfect knowledge of the basic grammar (I see too
often my compatriots using articles when they speak English!), I think
that is an essential requirement for the language
teacher. I think teaching a language is a profession in its own right that
requires two or more years of training even if your command of the
target language is perfect. I am saying you cannot teach Russian or whatever
simply because you speak it like a Russian; you will need a special
training as a teacher of the Russian Language As a Foreign Language.

I repeat my points: Being a "native speaker" means very little, i.e. the
skill of an eight year old. Language teacher will need far greater
skill and knowledge, but the skill in pronunciation (accent, especially)
can be dispensed with sometimes.

Cheers,
Tsuji