on the Hunter posting

[Dr Yoshimasa Tsuji]

Basically speaking, Georges Adassovsky endorsed all of the
important points I made, I hate to argue with him, but I
just want to tell him the facts about "acquiring perfect
pronunciation".

When I said I knew many bilingual/trilingual people, I was
talking about those who acquired the skill after having grown
up. The fact is this: for every language there exists a distance
to another language in terms of pronunciation and basic grammar.
  In the case of the Japanese language, Mongolian derived languages
like Mongolian, Tibetan, Korean, Manchurian languages are
very close to the Japanese language (regarding syntax and enunciation)
although not a word is common. On the other hand, Chinese, Vietnamese,
Thai languages are very different (the word order is like modern English,
enunciation very different). Therefore, it is very difficult for
Indo-European language speakers (Georges referred to "asian languages",
but being members of Indo-European family, they have nothing to do with
Mongolian or Chinese) to learn Japanese. Chinese, especially Taiwanese
have advantage only as far as they know Kanji. It is said Koreans speak
Japanese with an accent, but I am convinced that it is because they have
never had a proper training. If they have, they will never be discovered
as a foreigner.
   The reason why Japanese speak foreign languages in such a legendarily
poor manner is because of the extremely undeveloped muscular system of
enunciatory organs and because of the extremely few set of phonemes
(perhaps, only Indonesian is as poor). That is why there are many
Koreans speaking Japanese like a Japanese, but very few Japanese speaking
Korean like a Korean. However, this can be remedied.
  The major reason why it is so difficult for Japanese to learn English
is the lack of proper training: the grammar book of the English language
are meant for English/French/Spanish/German/Dutch audience, the teaching
of pronunciation is similar. Because of the vast distance from the
Japanese language, ordinary English grammar books for foreigners are
completely inadequate.
  Moreover, since it takes almost a life long effort for Japanese
to acquire a second language, they tend to concentrate their effort
upon enhancing the skill of translation. So, they don't have a single
voice trainer of the English language here in Tokyo. No wonder an adult
cannot acquire an English voice there. Pronunciation is a matter of
muscle training, nothing else. It can be acquired with proper training.
(look at how theatrical people train voices when they play various
roles. If you make a tiny portion of their efforts, your skill will
make an amazing difference).

In real like, the "right" accent is rarely needed (perhaps only
for actors and actresses). People may have funny accents, which
doesn't matter at all. What matters in pronunciation is the
clear distinction of basic phonemes only. Confusing "D","R","L"
like a man in the streets in Japan will not do, but as long as
distinction exists, the speaker will be understood (Look, every language
has a vast repertoire of local accents). Having non-standard accent is
not a disadvantage at all (look, there are so many Americans living
in England without any disadvantage). There is no such thing as
"wrong accent" as long as you are not teaching the "right" accent (I doubt
if people are interested in that sort of skill).

 Anyone who thinks the pronunciation skill can
be acquired by imitating "native" speakers is deeply mistaken (up the the
age of ten, it may be possible though). Adolescents do not detect any
mistakes in their pronunciation (look at those who invariably speak "f"
instead of "th" and think they speak "th"), and even when they do they don't
know how to correct them (when I watch my son learning English I was amazed
to see how intensely he tried to imitate the movement of enunciatory organs.
Not a student of mine at the university ever watched my lips...)
  Olympic game players will watch others and imitate in a matter of a few
days, but mediocre players need good coaches and trainers who can explain
how differently the others play and how to master the skill..

  Georges, I know many Ukrainians who originally came to Russia
as university students and speak Russian like a Russian. I agree
some Ukrainians tend to preserve their non-Russianness (there are too
many jokes about Ukrainians speaking Russian), but please admit that
there are also many who have lost all the traces of their origin.

Please let me repeat my points: adults need special training for
correcting accents and that sort of trainers do not usually exist.
That is why adults are hard to speak like a native. However, there is
little demand for a proper accent these days everywhere in the world,
because "accent" has lost its prestige everywhere.

With best wishes,
Tsuji

* Speaking about actresses, Nastasia Kinski in a Moscow film "The
Disgraced and Dispised" speaks like a Russian. Do you agree, Georges?
Kinski also appeared in an English film "Tess". She had a slight accent
in my ear, but was not foreign. Actors and actresses have proper
training not only of speech, but also all sorts of meta-language
skills (that is what "play" is about).