Fw: klass

[Andrew Jameson]

Andrew Jameson
Chair, Russian Committee, ALL
Languages and Professional Development
1 Brook Street, Lancaster LA1 1SL UK
Tel: 01524 32371  (+44 1524 32371)

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> From: Daf <daf at meirionnydd.force9.co.uk>
> To: a.jameson at dial.pipex.com
> Subject: Re: klass
> Date: 14 April 1999 13:11
>
> -Lilya Kaganovsky wrote -[or maybe not; I get confused by the >>s as to who
> exactly wrote what]
> > >          (One of the best
> > > versions of this I've ever heard is "u menia na tarelke bol'she net
> > > komnaty"). As someone who's made mistakes saying both of the above to
> > > speakers in Moscow, I can attest that neither is acceptable there.
> > > So it seems to me a matter of pedagogical decision whether to accept
> > > emigre speech as a "corruption" of standard Russian or as an
> interesting
> > > linguistic variation.
>
> I loved "u menia na tarelke bol'she net komnaty". I feel pretty sure that
> one won't take off. If the hearer does not know English they simply won't
> believe their ears.
> But all in all I am confused. Are these emigres Russians in the States or
> English speakers living in Moscow? If the former how come someone needs to
> teach them Russian. If the latter I doubt much of it will catch on,
> certainly not sheer mistaken Russian. After many years of teaching English
> as a foreign language, I can honestly say that non of the foreign gems that
> came our way ever appeared in mainstream English. For that matter even
> large populations who remain and become integrated like the Pakistanis and
> Indians [many of whom use their own version of English at home in their own
> country as a lingua franca] have not persuaded the English to adopt the
> Indian use of present perfect for ownership of objects.
>
> Emily Tall wrote
> > > >Several of them have used "ikhnii" and "lozhit" (instead of kladyot)
> as well. Is the sanest approach
> > > > just to point out that those are "unacceptable" forms and leave it at
> that? When I do point
> > > >  it out they give me these strange looks...
>
> I'm sure "ikhnii" was current since forever. It certainly occurs in 19C
> literature. "lozhit" (instead of kladyot) on the other hand sounds very
> like a foreigner's assumption going from polozhit to lozhit as a logical
> move. I doubt a real Russian would do it, but then, from the depths of
> Wales perhaps I am out of touch.
> I'm still wondering to who it is suggested that these are unacceptable
> forms. If it is to American or English students of Russian then I am sure
> they need to know kladyot but should be congratulated on correct use of
> ikhnii. Surely the essential is for them to recognise, and as far as
> possible use, what Russians use. if I am teaching my grandmother to suck
> eggs, I apologise.
> Daf  [web page-http://www.meirionnydd.force9.co.uk]