Grammatical/Phraseological Query

[William Ryan]

This is normally considered to be a survival of the Old Russian accusative
plural, which survives in some dialects. The genitive-accusative spread to the
plural from the singular relatively late. The nominative-accusative in
expressions of this type survives now as a phraseological formula (cf. vyiti
zamuzh) despite the modernity of kosmonavt.
Will Ryan

Katherine Lahti wrote:

> Why reply off-list Tony?!?
>
> This is one of my favorite questions and would like to hear what the others
> have to say.
>
> In fact v + (nominative-looking) plural of male (?) professions is a pretty
> common locution usually with the meaning of intending to become one (of
> that group).
>
> On p. 246 of Robin's and Sime's *Political Russian* we have
>
> kandidat        v sud'i
>                 v gubernatory
>                 v chleny palaty predstavitelej
>                 v kongresmeny
>
> I think I've heard Russians say things like "On uchilsia v vrachi," and the
> like.
>
> There's also a famous children's ditty "Ja poidu v pozharnye, pust' menja
> nauchit." (I've heard it's Mayakovsky. I know I should know, but I don't.)
>
> About the question of what case it is, in *Continuing with Russian* (Now,
> Tony, why might I have an old copy of that lying around?) p. 260, C.T.
> states "The idea of joining a group or entering the ranks of something is
> sometimes expressed by a  motion verb plus "v" plus an accusative plural,
> which does not assume the genitive form for animates and, hence, is
> equivalent to the nominative plural." He gives the following examples:
>
> Ona vyshla v ljudi.
>
> On postupil (poshel) v soldaty.
>
> Interesting new case, the less-than-animate profession. Sitting at my
> office desk this afternoon I can somehow relate.
>
> Calling all others! What else do you have to say? As I said, this is one of
> my favorite weird things.
>
> >The Russian equivalent for "Astronaut Candidate" has me a bit puzzled as to
> >its underlying grammar/phraseology, and I'm hoping someone out there might
> >have an answer as to why this construction is used and why it is considered
> >grammatically correct.
> >
> >The phrase is:  "kandidat v astronavty."  What's puzzling, of course, is the
> >nominative plural ending on "astronavty."  I suspect it has to do with this
> >being an elliptical construction, but I've not been able to find out the
> >missing elements might be.  I suspect that there are other, non-space
> >related, analogies and would be grateful for whatever light my fellow
> >SEELANGers can shed on this.
> >
> >Please reply off list.
> >
> >Thanks in advance,
> >
> >Tony Vanchu
> >
> >Dr. Anthony J. Vanchu
> >Russian Language Program Director
> >TTI/JSC Language Education Center
> >Johnson Space Center
> >Houston, TX
> >(281) 483-0644
> >
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>
> Katherine Lahti, Associate Professor        tel.: (860) 297-2378
> Department of Modern Languages                         fax.: (860) 297-5111
> Trinity College                http://www.trincoll.edu/~lahti/
> Hartford, CT 06106
>
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--
##################################################################
W. F. Ryan, MA, DPhil, FSA
Warburg Institute (School of Advanced Study, University of London)
Woburn Square, LONDON  WC1H 0AB
tel: 020 7862 8940 (direct)
tel: 020 7862 8949 (switchboard)
fax: 020 7862 8939
Institute Webpage  fttp://www.sas.ac.uk/warburg/
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