Definite articles

[Dean Worth]

Dear Colleagues,
        Re the "the" the discussion about (the) Ukraine seems to me to be on the
wrong level: it has nothing to do with grammatical rules, and everything to
do with simple good manners. I have a friend named Robert Winter, and he
prefers to be called Robert, not Bob, so I call him Robert, which costs me
but a single extra syllable once a month or so. If our Ukrainian friends
and colleagues prefer to refer to their country as Ukraine, without the
article, why can't we do it their way, just to be obliging? After all, it's
not as if they were asking for Saskatchewan. Dean Worth


At 03:42 PM 8/18/00 -0400, you wrote:
>On Fri, 18 Aug 2000, Adassovsky Georges wrote:
>
>> In my opinion (and in the opinion of some linguists who teached me),
>> grammar rules come from the way people speak, and are recorded by
>> linguists. Languages stand on usage...
>
>And the "way people speak" is affected by social, political and cultural
>influences.  As these influences change and assert themselves, so does
>usage, and, eventually grammar rules.
>
>In the case of "the Ukraine" there have been arguments posed here
>that the grammar rule requires "the" to be stricken since Ukraine is now
>independent.  I have seen little if any refutation of these rules -
>participants only throw out (supposed) counterexamples.  So, the issue is
>really whether usage, which violates a grammar rule, will fall in line or
>whether the usage will force an exception to the rule.
>
>-- Stepan
>
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