Toasts

Mon Mar 1 21:32:06 UTC 2004

That was quite appropriate, as you were supposed to say "spasibo." :)

Alexei
----- Original Message -----
From: "Raul MacDiarmid" <raul_macdiarmid at WEB.DE>
To: <SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU>
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 2:29 PM
Subject: [SEELANGS] Toasts


> Very gratifying to strike such a nerve and get such interesting and
authoritative answers.  I suppose I should give my one example of hearing Na
zdorov'e: I had just bought a bottle of vodka from a street vender and he
put the bottle in a bag and handed it to me with a smile and said "na
zdorov'e."
>
> Thanks again
> RM
>
> Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list schrieb am 01.03.04
21:20:42:
> >
> > To get out of Moscow regarding toasts, here is what a young couple from
Velikiy Novgorod wrote me: "when you toast, most of the time you either say
Za vashe zdorov'e (or just vashe zdorov'e), or Bud'te zdorovy. However, you
will most likely almost never hear anyone say "na zdorov'e" as a toast. This
phrase, however, exists independently (from drinking), and is used in other
situations. At least that's how it is in Novgorod, and some places in
Belarus."
> > Cheers,
> > Robert Hunter
> > rhunter at monroecc.edu
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list on behalf of
Bryon
> > Sent: Mon 3/1/2004 3:19 AM
> > To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU
> > Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Toasts
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks for the thoughtful response, Alina.
> > Over the last several days I've been asking friends here (native
speakers) in person, and by e-mail, the same question that lead to all the
feedback. Interestingly, at first, about half said that "na" was OK as a
toast. Then, once they thought about it, they said it wasn't. The consensus
Saturday at a housewarming party (where no one used "na"!) was that "na" is
sometimes used in toasts, only improperly -- the influence of outside
forces, marriages and cultures, on the language.
> > Then again, this is Moscow, where it is now considered acceptable to
order "odno kofe."
> >
> > Bryon
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Alina Israeli
> > To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU
> > Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 5:53 AM
> > Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Toasts
> >
> >
> > >What, then, is factually correct? I, too, would be interested
> > >to know. I've been living in Russia continuously since 1996,
> > >and I've had many opportunities to listen to, and make,
> > >toasts. "Na" is almost always used -- even if, as you say,
> > >it's wrong to do so. I've never once heard "za" used without
> > >a pronoun.
> >
> > You don't have to have "za" in some cases, you can simply say "Vashe
> > zdorov'e!" But "zdorov'e" toast is the only one which allows the
> > preposition omission. You cannot omit it in any of the following (or any
> > other ones I could think of with a noun in them):
> >
> > Za prekrasnyx dam!
> > Za xozjajku doma!
> > Za imeninnika!
> > Za skorejshee okonhanie [of whatever]!
> >
> > and so on, whatever the occasion (if there is one).
> >
> > The original syntactic construction is "podnjat' tost za + Acc" or
"vypit'
> > za". The latter one was used in the title of a play by Zhuxovickij
"Vyp'em
> > za Kolumba!"
> >
> > If they say "na zdorov'e" while drinking, they are mimicking the use of
> > this phrase while eating (and obviously mocking it), which roughly means
> > 'it's good for you' which is usually a reply to a thank you at or after
the
> > meal. This mocking use implies that drinking is good for you.
> >
> > "Na zdorov'e" could also mean 'as you please, I don't care/none of my
> > problems'. For ex. as in the following dialog:
> >
> > - I reshila poexat' navestit' syna.
> > - Nu i ezzhajte na zdorov'e. (Mne-to kakoe delo?)
> >
> >
> > __________________________
> > Alina Israeli
> > LFS, American University
> > 4400 Mass. Ave., NW
> > Washington, DC 20016
> >
> > phone: (202) 885-2387
> > fax: (202) 885-1076
> >
>
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