From wfr at SAS.AC.UK  Tue Apr  1 00:42:13 2008
From: wfr at SAS.AC.UK (William Ryan)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 01:42:13 +0100
Subject: a possibly minority position
In-Reply-To: <a0a13f6b0803311453r1c9f2848l681afa52ca7f30aa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.APR.2008.014213.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

It doesn't sound at all like Johnson to me. A quick look at Google shows 
attributions to several anons, Max Reger, Winston Churchill, Noel 
Coward, George Bernard Shaw, G. K. Chesterton and Voltaire, none with a 
verifiable reference. One Reger citation does give the recipient and 
date (Rudolph Louis, 1906) - but I would have been more convinced if it 
had been quoted in German. Sounds like one of those general purpose 
witticisms.
Will Ryan


Ajda Kljun wrote:
> Wasn't it the German musician Max Reger who said that? See
> http://books.google.si/books?id=wgoOxgWl6roC&pg=PA744&lpg=PA744&dq=%22smallest+room%22+reger&source=web&ots=wQeFp1K4gT&sig=4ulGjqG_7T2pNAvArXSREZGVsuc&hl=sl#PPA744,M1.
>
>
> Regards, Ajda.
>
> 2008/3/31, Jerry Katsell <jerry3 at roadrunner.com>:
>   
>> Dear John and Ryan and All,
>>
>> It seems that Dr. Samuel Johnson may have something to contribute to
>> toilet references, viz., "the smallest room in the house." As he wrote
>> once upon a time to one of his critics:
>>
>>
>> "I'm reading your letter. I'm sitting in the smallest room in the house.
>> It shall soon be behind me."
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Jerry Katsell
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
>> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Meredig, John
>> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 6:24 AM
>> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] a possibly minority position
>>
>> All this toilet talk reminds me of all the amusement I caused for my
>> German friends many years ago when I told them: Ich muss ins Klo. The
>> room vs. the fixture can indeed be an important distinction.
>>
>> John Meredig
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
>> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of William Ryan
>> Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 8:17 PM
>> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] a possibly minority position
>>
>> In British English the toilet unit itself is called, in a hardware
>> catalogue, a 'toilet pan' (hence the expression 'down the pan' = gone to
>> waste, ruined) or sometimes 'toilet pedestal', or just 'toilet', and
>> this is indeed the Russian 'unitaz' (from the British brand name Unitas,
>> c. 1870 - I have seen several with this trade mark in older Russian
>> houses). But 'toilet' is vague and can also be a room or whole edifice,
>> e.g. a public toilet.
>>
>> British and American euphemisms in this area differ a good deal and can
>> be a source of embarrassing international misunderstanding. I remember,
>> as a young student still unfamiliar with US English, being accosted by
>> an elderly American lady in the Bodleian Library in Oxford who asked me
>> if I could direct her to 'the little girl's room' (I am not sure where
>> the apostrophe goes). I was genuinely puzzled by this and unable to help
>> her.
>>
>> Will Ryan
>>
>>
>> Paul B. Gallagher wrote:
>>     
>>> Alina Israeli wrote:
>>>
>>>       
>>>> Tualet in Russian was borrowed from French and it means 1. a garment,
>>>>         
>>>> usually a fancy ensemble; 2. taking care of one's appearance
>>>> (zanimat'sja svoim tualetom); 3. a table with a mirror; 4. (finally
>>>> the euphemistic) bathroom.
>>>>
>>>> The English toilet would be translated as unitaz.
>>>>         
>>> When we need to disambiguate, an унитаз is called a "commode." This
>>> word can only refer to the fixture, never to the room. "Toilet" is
>>> ambiguous, at least in American English. It can even be a verb (!).
>>>
>>>       
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -
>>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -
>>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -
>>
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>>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
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>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>     

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From jerry3 at ROADRUNNER.COM  Tue Apr  1 05:07:06 2008
From: jerry3 at ROADRUNNER.COM (Jerry Katsell)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 22:07:06 -0700
Subject: a possibly minority position
In-Reply-To: <47F184E5.3040805@sas.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <MON.31.MAR.2008.220706.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Will and Ajda, You may be right, even Brahms attributes it to Max Reger:
"I am sitting in the smallest room of my house. I have your review
before me. It shall soon be behind me." My informant is English and told
me the quote is from somewhere in Boswell's Life of Johnson. Sometimes
it's hard to know who said what. "The cosmos is the smallest hole a man
can hide his head in." That could sound like Oscar Wilde, but belongs to
G.K. Chesterton. Perhaps someone may know an equivalent expression in
Russian for "the smallest room in the house". Anyone?

Will --- I'm surprised you didn't know "little girls' room". There is an
analogous "little boys' room". That's probably not British English
either.
Out here in the wilds of California (pronounced "Caleefornya" by our
head of state), restaurants often have "Caballeros" posted on the
loo-for-men door. Did someone mention WC? And then there's American
street slang: "head," as in the question: "'ey dude, where's the head
at?"

In Russian, I think it's mainly "tualet".

Jerry Katsell  

-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
[mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of William Ryan
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 5:42 PM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] a possibly minority position

It doesn't sound at all like Johnson to me. A quick look at Google shows

attributions to several anons, Max Reger, Winston Churchill, Noel 
Coward, George Bernard Shaw, G. K. Chesterton and Voltaire, none with a 
verifiable reference. One Reger citation does give the recipient and 
date (Rudolph Louis, 1906) - but I would have been more convinced if it 
had been quoted in German. Sounds like one of those general purpose 
witticisms.
Will Ryan


Ajda Kljun wrote:
> Wasn't it the German musician Max Reger who said that? See
>
http://books.google.si/books?id=wgoOxgWl6roC&pg=PA744&lpg=PA744&dq=%22sm
allest+room%22+reger&source=web&ots=wQeFp1K4gT&sig=4ulGjqG_7T2pNAvArXSRE
ZGVsuc&hl=sl#PPA744,M1.
>
>
> Regards, Ajda.
>
> 2008/3/31, Jerry Katsell <jerry3 at roadrunner.com>:
>   
>> Dear John and Ryan and All,
>>
>> It seems that Dr. Samuel Johnson may have something to contribute to
>> toilet references, viz., "the smallest room in the house." As he
wrote
>> once upon a time to one of his critics:
>>
>>
>> "I'm reading your letter. I'm sitting in the smallest room in the
house.
>> It shall soon be behind me."
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Jerry Katsell
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
>> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Meredig, John
>> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 6:24 AM
>> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] a possibly minority position
>>
>> All this toilet talk reminds me of all the amusement I caused for my
>> German friends many years ago when I told them: Ich muss ins Klo. The
>> room vs. the fixture can indeed be an important distinction.
>>
>> John Meredig
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
>> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of William Ryan
>> Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 8:17 PM
>> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] a possibly minority position
>>
>> In British English the toilet unit itself is called, in a hardware
>> catalogue, a 'toilet pan' (hence the expression 'down the pan' = gone
to
>> waste, ruined) or sometimes 'toilet pedestal', or just 'toilet', and
>> this is indeed the Russian 'unitaz' (from the British brand name
Unitas,
>> c. 1870 - I have seen several with this trade mark in older Russian
>> houses). But 'toilet' is vague and can also be a room or whole
edifice,
>> e.g. a public toilet.
>>
>> British and American euphemisms in this area differ a good deal and
can
>> be a source of embarrassing international misunderstanding. I
remember,
>> as a young student still unfamiliar with US English, being accosted
by
>> an elderly American lady in the Bodleian Library in Oxford who asked
me
>> if I could direct her to 'the little girl's room' (I am not sure
where
>> the apostrophe goes). I was genuinely puzzled by this and unable to
help
>> her.
>>
>> Will Ryan
>>
>>
>> Paul B. Gallagher wrote:
>>     
>>> Alina Israeli wrote:
>>>
>>>       
>>>> Tualet in Russian was borrowed from French and it means 1. a
garment,
>>>>         
>>>> usually a fancy ensemble; 2. taking care of one's appearance
>>>> (zanimat'sja svoim tualetom); 3. a table with a mirror; 4. (finally
>>>> the euphemistic) bathroom.
>>>>
>>>> The English toilet would be translated as unitaz.
>>>>         
>>> When we need to disambiguate, an унитаз is called a "commode." This
>>> word can only refer to the fixture, never to the room. "Toilet" is
>>> ambiguous, at least in American English. It can even be a verb (!).
>>>
>>>       
>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -
>>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your
subscription
>>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface
at:
>>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -
>>
>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -
>>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your
subscription
>>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface
at:
>>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -
>>
>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your
subscription
>>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface
at:
>>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>>
>>
>>     

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From G.Chew at RHUL.AC.UK  Tue Apr  1 06:15:01 2008
From: G.Chew at RHUL.AC.UK (Chew G)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 07:15:01 +0100
Subject: a possibly minority position
Message-ID: <TUE.1.APR.2008.071501.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

If we're talking about Reger, the secondary source is Slonimsky's Dictionary of Musical Invective, quoting Reger as follows: "Ich sitze in dem kleinsten Zimmer in meinem Hause. Ich habe Ihre Kritik vor mir. Im naechsten Augenblick wird sie hinter mir sein."  (On the web at http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse/1945/WSB/reger.html)
 
By the way, is there any equivalent in Russian to Czech "hajzl" (which as a non-expert I have always assumed comes from Austrian German "haeusl") for the lavatory?  Not exactly a euphemism though, and it's used pretty widely as a personal insult as well.
 
Geoff
 
 Geoffrey Chew
 Institute of Musicology, Masaryk University, Brno
 chewg at seznam.cz
 
 Department of Music, Royal Holloway, University of London
 g.chew at rhul.ac.uk

________________________________

From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list on behalf of William Ryan
Sent: Tue 1.4.08 01:42
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] a possibly minority position



It doesn't sound at all like Johnson to me. A quick look at Google shows
attributions to several anons, Max Reger, Winston Churchill, Noel
Coward, George Bernard Shaw, G. K. Chesterton and Voltaire, none with a
verifiable reference. One Reger citation does give the recipient and
date (Rudolph Louis, 1906) - but I would have been more convinced if it
had been quoted in German. Sounds like one of those general purpose
witticisms.
Will Ryan


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From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM  Tue Apr  1 07:21:53 2008
From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 08:21:53 +0100
Subject: Cyrillic encodings
In-Reply-To: <007e01c89381$579647f0$0501a8c0@inspiron>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.APR.2008.082153.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

So are you saying I should always set 'Character Set' in my email programme
to 'UTF-8' rather than to 'Automatic'? This won't cause other problems?

Best Wishes,

Robert




> Yes, and to the extend your computer savvy (or that of someone you know)
> allows, please try to set your keyboard and email programs to use UTF-8
> ("8-bit Unicode"). This is the standard toward which everything is going,
> and so you'd be doing yourself (and everyone else!) a favor by moving toward
> it.
> 
> Best wishes to all,
> David
> 
> David Powelstock
> Asst. Prof. of Russian & East European Literatures
> Chair, Program in Russian & East European Studies
> Brandeis University
> GRALL, MS 024
> Waltham, MA  02454-9110
> 781.736.3347 (Office)
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Philip Robinson
> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 11:18 AM
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] a possibly minority position
> 
> While we're on this subject, I am probably not the first person to make this
> request on SEELANGS, but it would be most helpful if those who post
> something in Cyrillic would also  provide a Latin transliteration.  As much
> as I prefer to read Russian and other languages in Cyrillic, about a third
> of the Cyrillic text in SEELANGS postings does not render correctly, and I
> use a variety of web-based and fat-client email readers with different
> encoding schemes to try to parse them.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Phil Robinson
> 
> At 09:08 PM 3/30/2008, you wrote:
>> Dustin Hosseini wrote:
>> 
>>> John,
>>> Could you transliterate the Russian words?  They came out garbled; or
>>> at least on my end they are all question marks ????
>> 
>> Not your fault.
>> 
>> John's Outlook Express 6 sent his message with the following parameters
>> (I've omitted the irrelevant parts):
>> 
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>> 
>> Seven-bit encoding will always convert Cyrillic to question marks, and
>> the information is cannot be recovered at the receiving end.
>> 
>> I have no idea why OE decided that this message required only Western
>> encoding, and 7-bit to boot -- I don't use the program. Sorry.
>> 
>> --
>> War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
>> --
>> Paul B. Gallagher
>> pbg translations, inc.
>> "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
>> http://pbg-translations.com
>> 
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your
>> subscription
>>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
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> -------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From wfr at SAS.AC.UK  Tue Apr  1 08:58:03 2008
From: wfr at SAS.AC.UK (William Ryan)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 09:58:03 +0100
Subject: a possibly minority position
In-Reply-To: <E5F8E4518B68AA439EE1BDFCF08ABE71F1058D@EXCH-DB-02.cc.rhul.local>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.APR.2008.095803.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Geoffrey: Begins to sound more convincing - but still second hand. Welsh 
has 'ty bach' (little house) as an analogy to the Czech.
Jerry: I doubt if 'little boy's room' would get much recognition in the 
UK either. Derision perhaps - I suggest you try asking the way to it 
next time you are in a London pub. 'Head' may well be US street slang 
but it has been the normal term in a nautical environment since the 18th 
century at least (UK and US I think). Common Russian euphemisms of 
varying degrees of acceptability are otkhozhee mesto, nuzhnik, nuzhnoe 
mesto, sortir, gal'iun (nautical 18th c. in origin, like 'head'). How an 
innocuous French verb like 'sortir' comes to be a Russian noun of some 
vulgarity is one of those transformations which makes etymology so 
fascinating.

Will Ryan


Chew G wrote:
> If we're talking about Reger, the secondary source is Slonimsky's Dictionary of Musical Invective, quoting Reger as follows: "Ich sitze in dem kleinsten Zimmer in meinem Hause. Ich habe Ihre Kritik vor mir. Im naechsten Augenblick wird sie hinter mir sein."  (On the web at http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse/1945/WSB/reger.html)
>  
> By the way, is there any equivalent in Russian to Czech "hajzl" (which as a non-expert I have always assumed comes from Austrian German "haeusl") for the lavatory?  Not exactly a euphemism though, and it's used pretty widely as a personal insult as well.
>  
> Geoff
>  
>  Geoffrey Chew
>  Institute of Musicology, Masaryk University, Brno
>  chewg at seznam.cz
>  
>  Department of Music, Royal Holloway, University of London
>  g.chew at rhul.ac.uk
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list on behalf of William Ryan
> Sent: Tue 1.4.08 01:42
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] a possibly minority position
>
>
>
> It doesn't sound at all like Johnson to me. A quick look at Google shows
> attributions to several anons, Max Reger, Winston Churchill, Noel
> Coward, George Bernard Shaw, G. K. Chesterton and Voltaire, none with a
> verifiable reference. One Reger citation does give the recipient and
> date (Rudolph Louis, 1906) - but I would have been more convinced if it
> had been quoted in German. Sounds like one of those general purpose
> witticisms.
> Will Ryan
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   

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From lino59 at AMERITECH.NET  Tue Apr  1 12:24:14 2008
From: lino59 at AMERITECH.NET (Deborah Hoffman)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 05:24:14 -0700
Subject: Document from GARF
In-Reply-To: <SEELANGS%200803311942121767.0AEB@BAMA.UA.EDU>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.APR.2008.052414.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Sorry that came out so garbled. I'll try again below. I remember someone recommending a document service earlier on the list, and I'm hoping that the fact I have the GARF file no. will make it possible to use a similar resource (if it could be provided again by someone I would be very appreciative).
   
  >Date:    Mon, 31 Mar 2008 12:27:10 -0700
>From:    Deborah Hoffman <lino59 at AMERITECH.NET>
>Subject: document from GARF
>
>Can anyone recommend a (relatively) convenient way to obtain the
 >following document? It is listed with Yad Vashem but I have tried several
 >times going that route without success and have given up.
>  
>  
Title                     List of survivors and perished from Lipecka Polana, prepared by the
                             Soviet Extraordinary State Commission, 02/04/1946; includes
                             itemization of property damage 
  Original title          &#1040;&#1082;&#1090;-&#1089;&#1087;&#1080;&#1089;&#1086;&#1082; (Akt-spisok)            
  Relevant places    LIPECKA POLANA, CHUST, CARPATHIAN RUTHENIA, CZECHOSLOVAKIA
  Earliest Date        02/04/1946             
  Latest Date          02/04/1946
  Group identity       Jewish     Mixed
  Type of material    List of Persecuted     Population census
  Number of names on list          123
  Language             Russian
  Record Group       M.33 - Records of the Extraordinary State Commission to Investigate  
                             German-Fascist Crimes Committed on Soviet Territory      
  File No.               JM/21194             
  No. of pages/frames      16             
  Archive of origin          GOSUDARSTVENNY ARKHIV  ROSSIYSKOY FEDERATSII -
                             RUSSIA, MOSKVA             
  Original file No.     7021-62-129
  Provenance          &#1492;&#1493;&#1493;&#1506;&#1491;&#1492; &#1500;&#1495;&#1511;&#1512; &#1508;&#1513;&#1506;&#1497; &#1492;&#1504;&#1488;&#1510;&#1497;&#1501; &#1489;&#1489;&#1512;&#1497;&#1492;``&#1502;, ChGK             
  Provenance -place Moskva            
 Microfilm code      JM/21194             &#1492;&#1506;&#1512;&#1514; &#1514;&#1493;&#1499;&#1503; &#1502;&#1514;&#1493;&#1512;&#1490;&#1502;&#1514;          &#1492;&#1506;&#1502;&#1493;&#1491;&#1497;&#1501; &#1495;&#1500;&#1511;&#1501; &#1495;&#1493;&#1494;&#1512;&#1497;&#1501; &#1506;&#1500;
                             &#1506;&#1510;&#1502;&#1501;             
  Source of record   Yad Vashem             
  Item Number        6230037



Deborah Hoffman, Esq.
Russian > English Legal and Literary Translations

A man ceases to be a beginner in any given science and becomes a master in that science when he has learned that he is going to be a beginner all his life. -- R. G. Collingwood

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From pstock at BRANDEIS.EDU  Tue Apr  1 13:09:12 2008
From: pstock at BRANDEIS.EDU (David Powelstock)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 09:09:12 -0400
Subject: Cyrillic encodings
In-Reply-To: <C417A121.2D12B%kcf19@dial.pipex.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.APR.2008.090912.0400.>

Hi, Robert (and all),

I'm not very familiar with email programs other than Outlook, which is what I use, but there should be a separate setting (somewhere!) for the encoding your program will use to *compose* emails. ('Automatic,' I think, must refer to how your program *decodes* incoming messages.)

Cheers,
David

-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Robert Chandler
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 3:22 AM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Cyrillic encodings

So are you saying I should always set 'Character Set' in my email programme to 'UTF-8' rather than to 'Automatic'? This won't cause other problems?

Best Wishes,

Robert




> Yes, and to the extend your computer savvy (or that of someone you 
> know) allows, please try to set your keyboard and email programs to 
> use UTF-8 ("8-bit Unicode"). This is the standard toward which 
> everything is going, and so you'd be doing yourself (and everyone 
> else!) a favor by moving toward it.
> 
> Best wishes to all,
> David
> 
> David Powelstock
> Asst. Prof. of Russian & East European Literatures Chair, Program in 
> Russian & East European Studies Brandeis University GRALL, MS 024 
> Waltham, MA  02454-9110
> 781.736.3347 (Office)
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list 
> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Philip Robinson
> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 11:18 AM
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] a possibly minority position
> 
> While we're on this subject, I am probably not the first person to 
> make this request on SEELANGS, but it would be most helpful if those 
> who post something in Cyrillic would also  provide a Latin 
> transliteration.  As much as I prefer to read Russian and other 
> languages in Cyrillic, about a third of the Cyrillic text in SEELANGS 
> postings does not render correctly, and I use a variety of web-based 
> and fat-client email readers with different encoding schemes to try to parse them.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Phil Robinson
> 
> At 09:08 PM 3/30/2008, you wrote:
>> Dustin Hosseini wrote:
>> 
>>> John,
>>> Could you transliterate the Russian words?  They came out garbled; 
>>> or at least on my end they are all question marks ????
>> 
>> Not your fault.
>> 
>> John's Outlook Express 6 sent his message with the following 
>> parameters (I've omitted the irrelevant parts):
>> 
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>> 
>> Seven-bit encoding will always convert Cyrillic to question marks, 
>> and the information is cannot be recovered at the receiving end.
>> 
>> I have no idea why OE decided that this message required only Western 
>> encoding, and 7-bit to boot -- I don't use the program. Sorry.
>> 
>> --
>> War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
>> --
>> Paul B. Gallagher
>> pbg translations, inc.
>> "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
>> http://pbg-translations.com
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>> -- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your 
>> subscription  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web 
>> Interface at:
>>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>> --
>> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your 
> subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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> subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
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From hadjiabrek at YAHOO.COM  Tue Apr  1 13:25:13 2008
From: hadjiabrek at YAHOO.COM (John Hope)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 06:25:13 -0700
Subject: Mikhalkov's 12
In-Reply-To: <71EB79178CB5D1418316AACE1A86ABE104D2793B43@EX7FM01.ad.uky.edu>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.APR.2008.062513.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

May I ask that the answer be posted to the list?  I'd
be eager to find this out as well.

Many thanks,

John P. Hope
Colgate University

--- "Ruder, Cynthia A" <Cynthia.Ruder at UKY.EDU> wrote:

> Seelangers:
> 
> Does anyone know if there a subtitled version of
> Mikhalkov's "12" has been released on DVD?  The ones
> I have been able to find seem to be only in Russian,
> unless I have misunderstood the promo information
> (which is entirely possible).  In any case, if
> anyone knows where to purchase a legal, subtitled
> copy, please respond to me OFF LIST at
> cynthia.ruder at uky.edu<mailto:cynthia.ruder at uky.edu>
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help.
> 
> Cynthia A. Ruder, Associate Professor
> University of Kentucky
> MCL/Russian & Eastern Studies
> 1055 Patterson
> Lexington, KY  40506-0027
> 859.257.7026
> 
>
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> control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the
> SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                    
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>
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> 
> 



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.  
http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com

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From Cynthia.Ruder at UKY.EDU  Tue Apr  1 13:38:19 2008
From: Cynthia.Ruder at UKY.EDU (Ruder, Cynthia A)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 09:38:19 -0400
Subject: The Twelve
Message-ID: <TUE.1.APR.2008.093819.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

SEELANGERS!

An update on my search for Mikhalkov's "12".  To date no one has been able to find a copy with subtitles.  The only copy available is a PAL version in Russian, which is great, unless you want to show the film to non-speakers of Russian!  In any case, as soon as I find out if there is a subtitled version, I'll post to the list.  And if someone else finds one, please let the list know, because many colleagues have written to ask that I let them know when I find a copy.  Thanks to everyone for your help and suggestions.

Best, Cindy


--
Cynthia A. Ruder, Associate Professor
Russian & Eastern Studies/MCL
University of Kentucky
1055 Patterson
Lexington, KY  40506-0027
859-257.7026

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From padunov at PITT.EDU  Tue Apr  1 13:44:42 2008
From: padunov at PITT.EDU (Padunov, Vladimir)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 09:44:42 -0400
Subject: The Twelve
In-Reply-To: <C417B30B.16B8%cynthia.ruder@uky.edu>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.APR.2008.094442.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

There will be no subtitled DVD of Mikhalkov's "12" until after the commercial release of the film to theaters by Sony Picture Classics.  The film is scheduled for release to theaters for the summer of 2008.  Subtitled DVDs will be available three to six months afterwards.

_________________________________________
Vladimir Padunov
Associate Director, Film Studies Program
Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures
427 Cathedral of Learning           voice: 1-412-624-5713
University of Pittsburgh               FAX: 1-412-624-9714
Pittsburgh, PA 15260                        padunov at pitt.edu

Russian Film Symposium   http://www.rusfilm.pitt.edu

KinoKultura                       http://www.kinokultura.com


-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ruder, Cynthia A
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 9:38 AM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: [SEELANGS] The Twelve

SEELANGERS!

An update on my search for Mikhalkov's "12".  To date no one has been able to find a copy with subtitles.  The only copy available is a PAL version in Russian, which is great, unless you want to show the film to non-speakers of Russian!  In any case, as soon as I find out if there is a subtitled version, I'll post to the list.  And if someone else finds one, please let the list know, because many colleagues have written to ask that I let them know when I find a copy.  Thanks to everyone for your help and suggestions.

Best, Cindy


--
Cynthia A. Ruder, Associate Professor
Russian & Eastern Studies/MCL
University of Kentucky
1055 Patterson
Lexington, KY  40506-0027
859-257.7026

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From jerry3 at ROADRUNNER.COM  Tue Apr  1 14:32:31 2008
From: jerry3 at ROADRUNNER.COM (Jerry Katsell)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 07:32:31 -0700
Subject: a possibly minority position
In-Reply-To: <E5F8E4518B68AA439EE1BDFCF08ABE71F1058D@EXCH-DB-02.cc.rhul.local>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.APR.2008.073231.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

 

Geoff,

 

 

 

 

 

Geoff, "Hajzl" probably does come from the German. It's vulgar in Czech, and
sometimes applied to naughty children by rough and ready parents: "Ty jseš
hajzl!" "Záchod" is standard; "toaleta" perhaps for a hotel lavatory;
"záchodek" for a country outhouse; and perhaps "koupelna" for a bathroom
with toilet and bidet included-the bathtub being the "koupel". Are there
others, in Brno specifically?

 

Will, The next time I'm in a London pub I'll be sure not to ask for "the
little boy's room." On "nuzhnik"-didn't the great Derzhavin when visiting
Tsarskoe Selo ask someone, Pushkin or another litseist, "Gde, bratets,
nuzhnik?" Probably an apocryphal event, but piquant in its own way.

 

Jerry Katsell 

 

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
[mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Chew G
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 11:15 PM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] a possibly minority position

 

If we're talking about Reger, the secondary source is Slonimsky's Dictionary
of Musical Invective, quoting Reger as follows: "Ich sitze in dem kleinsten
Zimmer in meinem Hause. Ich habe Ihre Kritik vor mir. Im naechsten
Augenblick wird sie hinter mir sein."  (On the web at
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse/1945/WSB/reger.html)

 

By the way, is there any equivalent in Russian to Czech "hajzl" (which as a
non-expert I have always assumed comes from Austrian German "haeusl") for
the lavatory?  Not exactly a euphemism though, and it's used pretty widely
as a personal insult as well.

 

Geoff

 

 Geoffrey Chew

 Institute of Musicology, Masaryk University, Brno

 chewg at seznam.cz

 

 Department of Music, Royal Holloway, University of London

 g.chew at rhul.ac.uk

 

________________________________

 

From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list on
behalf of William Ryan

Sent: Tue 1.4.08 01:42

To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU

Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] a possibly minority position

 

 

 

It doesn't sound at all like Johnson to me. A quick look at Google shows

attributions to several anons, Max Reger, Winston Churchill, Noel

Coward, George Bernard Shaw, G. K. Chesterton and Voltaire, none with a

verifiable reference. One Reger citation does give the recipient and

date (Rudolph Louis, 1906) - but I would have been more convinced if it

had been quoted in German. Sounds like one of those general purpose

witticisms.

Will Ryan

 

 

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From avardan at FREENET.AM  Tue Apr  1 15:29:29 2008
From: avardan at FREENET.AM (Ashot Vardanyan)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 19:29:29 +0400
Subject: > [SEELANGS] songs and games in the classroom
Message-ID: <TUE.1.APR.2008.192929.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Mr. Langran,

I'm teaching with your textbook at the University of Iowa and want to assure you that my audience only welcomes and enjoys the language acting out. Please don't drop the games and similar activities. At least here in Iowa my Americans are absolutely not rigid!!!

Ashot Vardanyan



03/31 21:41 John Langran <john at RUSLAN.CO.UK> wrote:
> Dear colleagues
> 
> A couple of further queries for the adaptation of my Ruslan course
> for the
> US market. I would be grateful if those teaching beginners Russian
> have time
> to respond.
> 
> 1.
> Do you like using language games that involve students moving around
> the
> classroom talking to each other in Russian? I have been encouraged to
> drop
> these from my US edition, as your classrooms are perhaps more
> "rigid" than
> ours in the UK. But I am not sure of this advice, and I want to check
> it.
> Example of such a game for beginners in the first few lessons of a
> beginners
> course.
> They already know - Izvinite! Ya-  Vy - Da - Net, and a few other
> necessary
> words.
> - students choose a profession - either inzhener, muzikant or
> zhurnalist.
> They don't tell anyone who they are.
> - they then have to get up from their seats and regroup in 3 groups,
> all the
> engineers together, etc, using Russian only. Teacher stays on hand to
> help
> with vocab etc as needed.
> 
> 2.
> Will there be any resistance from teachers to the idea of fun songs
> for
> learners using popular Russian tunes with new words? There is an
> example of
> such a song to the tune of "Iz-za ostrova na strezhen" at
> http://www.ruslan.co.uk/songs/Iz_aeroporta_v_centr.wmv - only low
> quality,
> the song is being recorded properly next week. It has been suggested
> that
> some teachers will see this as a mockery, but I think that the
> memorable
> context is a good aid to learning. There are likely to be 4 or 5 such
> items
> in the new book.
> 
> Thanks for any feedback
> 
> John Langran
> www.ruslan.co.uk
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your
> subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface
> at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
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> 
> 
>


--
http://www.freenet.am/

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From pr52 at CORNELL.EDU  Tue Apr  1 15:11:55 2008
From: pr52 at CORNELL.EDU (Philip Robinson)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 11:11:55 -0400
Subject: Cyrillic encodings
In-Reply-To: <002001c893f9$94ab8e70$0501a8c0@inspiron>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.APR.2008.111155.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Thanks for the good advice, David.  Yes, UTF-8 is a good solution, 
though my university-supplied mail program stunningly lacks the 
ability to tweak the encoding (either inbound or outbound), so I 
should probably replace it.  I think we are scheduled to move to 
Outlook soon, which would be an improvement.

Firefox and other browsers provide the capability of changing the 
encoding, so I pop open SEELANGS postings in two places, hoping for 
the best, though still around a third of the Cyrillic text is garbled 
(undoubtedly due to the issue of the differently-encoded outbound 
postings).  Hence my call for Latin transliteration, though I realize 
it's extra effort for everybody.  I enjoy this list, so I don't want 
to miss anything!

Cheers,

Phil

At 09:09 AM 4/1/2008, David Powelstock wrote:
>Hi, Robert (and all),
>
>I'm not very familiar with email programs other than Outlook, which 
>is what I use, but there should be a separate setting (somewhere!) 
>for the encoding your program will use to *compose* emails. 
>('Automatic,' I think, must refer to how your program *decodes* 
>incoming messages.)
>
>Cheers,
>David
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures 
>list [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Robert Chandler
>Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 3:22 AM
>To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
>Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Cyrillic encodings
>
>So are you saying I should always set 'Character Set' in my email 
>programme to 'UTF-8' rather than to 'Automatic'? This won't cause 
>other problems?
>
>Best Wishes,
>
>Robert
>
>
>
>
> > Yes, and to the extend your computer savvy (or that of someone you
> > know) allows, please try to set your keyboard and email programs to
> > use UTF-8 ("8-bit Unicode"). This is the standard toward which
> > everything is going, and so you'd be doing yourself (and everyone
> > else!) a favor by moving toward it.
> >
> > Best wishes to all,
> > David
> >
> > David Powelstock
> > Asst. Prof. of Russian & East European Literatures Chair, Program in
> > Russian & East European Studies Brandeis University GRALL, MS 024
> > Waltham, MA  02454-9110
> > 781.736.3347 (Office)
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
> > [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Philip Robinson
> > Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 11:18 AM
> > To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] a possibly minority position
> >
> > While we're on this subject, I am probably not the first person to
> > make this request on SEELANGS, but it would be most helpful if those
> > who post something in Cyrillic would also  provide a Latin
> > transliteration.  As much as I prefer to read Russian and other
> > languages in Cyrillic, about a third of the Cyrillic text in SEELANGS
> > postings does not render correctly, and I use a variety of web-based
> > and fat-client email readers with different encoding schemes to 
> try to parse them.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Phil Robinson
> >
> > At 09:08 PM 3/30/2008, you wrote:
> >> Dustin Hosseini wrote:
> >>
> >>> John,
> >>> Could you transliterate the Russian words?  They came out garbled;
> >>> or at least on my end they are all question marks ????
> >>
> >> Not your fault.
> >>
> >> John's Outlook Express 6 sent his message with the following
> >> parameters (I've omitted the irrelevant parts):
> >>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> >>
> >> Seven-bit encoding will always convert Cyrillic to question marks,
> >> and the information is cannot be recovered at the receiving end.
> >>
> >> I have no idea why OE decided that this message required only Western
> >> encoding, and 7-bit to boot -- I don't use the program. Sorry.
> >>
> >> --
> >> War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
> >> --
> >> Paul B. Gallagher
> >> pbg translations, inc.
> >> "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
> >> http://pbg-translations.com
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> --
> >> -- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your
> >> subscription  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web
> >> Interface at:
> >>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> --
> >> --
> >>
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ---  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your
> > subscription
> >   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> >                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ---
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ---  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your
> > subscription
> >   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> >                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ---
>
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>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM  Tue Apr  1 16:22:15 2008
From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 12:22:15 -0400
Subject: Cyrillic encodings
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20080401105416.02d2e620@cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.APR.2008.122215.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Philip Robinson wrote:

> Thanks for the good advice, David.  Yes, UTF-8 is a good solution, 
> though my university-supplied mail program stunningly lacks the ability 
> to tweak the encoding (either inbound or outbound), so I should probably 
> replace it.  I think we are scheduled to move to Outlook soon, which 
> would be an improvement.
> 
> Firefox and other browsers provide the capability of changing the 
> encoding, so I pop open SEELANGS postings in two places, hoping for the 
> best, though still around a third of the Cyrillic text is garbled 
> (undoubtedly due to the issue of the differently-encoded outbound 
> postings).  Hence my call for Latin transliteration, though I realize 
> it's extra effort for everybody.  I enjoy this list, so I don't want to 
> miss anything!

If you like Firefox, you might also like its email partner Thunderbird, 
or the newest integrated suite from the Mozilla organization, SeaMonkey. 
All will guess encodings based on the sender's specifications, but when 
the sender's program or website lies, you can manually override it.

<http://www.mozilla.org>

-- 
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
pbg translations, inc.
"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
http://pbg-translations.com

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From peitlovakatarina at TISCALI.IT  Tue Apr  1 16:23:03 2008
From: peitlovakatarina at TISCALI.IT (Peitlova Katarina)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 18:23:03 +0200
Subject: translation Ukrainian language
Message-ID: <TUE.1.APR.2008.182303.0200.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Who can help me ?What does  mean exactly : kolishnnja druzhica
колишння дружица - is it ex wife or spouse?
And abbr. of some office which makes passports in Ukraina:
МРВ УМВС.

Thank you very much

            Katarina PeitlovaTocci,PhDr.Italy


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From tdolack at UOREGON.EDU  Tue Apr  1 16:40:00 2008
From: tdolack at UOREGON.EDU (Tom Dolack)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 09:40:00 -0700
Subject: Cyrillic encodings
In-Reply-To: <47F26137.9030600@pbg-translations.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.APR.2008.094000.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Speaking of SeaMonkey, does anybody have any experience with "Zombie 
Keys" (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/seamonkey/addon/2335)? It's 
supposed to allow you to do the accented Cyrillic thing (or accented 
just about anything, for that matter) that comes up on the list 
periodically. I haven't tried it, but it looks promising. It may be of 
use to some list members.

Regards to the list,
Tom

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:)
> Philip Robinson wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the good advice, David.  Yes, UTF-8 is a good solution, 
>> though my university-supplied mail program stunningly lacks the 
>> ability to tweak the encoding (either inbound or outbound), so I 
>> should probably replace it.  I think we are scheduled to move to 
>> Outlook soon, which would be an improvement.
>>
>> Firefox and other browsers provide the capability of changing the 
>> encoding, so I pop open SEELANGS postings in two places, hoping for 
>> the best, though still around a third of the Cyrillic text is garbled 
>> (undoubtedly due to the issue of the differently-encoded outbound 
>> postings).  Hence my call for Latin transliteration, though I realize 
>> it's extra effort for everybody.  I enjoy this list, so I don't want 
>> to miss anything!
>
> If you like Firefox, you might also like its email partner 
> Thunderbird, or the newest integrated suite from the Mozilla 
> organization, SeaMonkey. All will guess encodings based on the 
> sender's specifications, but when the sender's program or website 
> lies, you can manually override it.
>
> <http://www.mozilla.org>
>

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From iamlearningenglish at GMAIL.COM  Tue Apr  1 16:43:56 2008
From: iamlearningenglish at GMAIL.COM (Dustin Hosseini)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 11:43:56 -0500
Subject: The Twelve
Message-ID: <TUE.1.APR.2008.114356.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Just a word on discs being "PAL"... if they're from Russia.

I've noticed that DVDs I have bought here that have been supposedly
"official" versions due print "PAL" on the box and often it is stated that
there are subtitles.  

This is all contrary to fact... The discs I've bought have almost always
ended up being Region 0, meaning that they could be played on any DVD
player, and most of the stated subtitles were actually nonexistent.  

Just an FYI: I did go down to a reputable shop, called Nastroenie, in Moscow
that sells licensed versions of DVDs, and neither of the "12" that I saw had
subtitles or other language selections.  

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From jknox at BOWDOIN.EDU  Tue Apr  1 17:02:11 2008
From: jknox at BOWDOIN.EDU (Jane Knox-Voina)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 13:02:11 -0400
Subject: [BULK]  Re: [SEELANGS] The Twelve
In-Reply-To: <LISTSERV%200804011143561757.0AEE@BAMA.UA.EDU>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.APR.2008.130211.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Yes, but  you VHS get through through Amazon (that is when the English 
subtitled version comes out see Padunov's note),  they will be 
converted. Jane Knox-Voina

Dustin Hosseini wrote:
> Just a word on discs being "PAL"... if they're from Russia.
>
> I've noticed that DVDs I have bought here that have been supposedly
> "official" versions due print "PAL" on the box and often it is stated that
> there are subtitles.  
>
> This is all contrary to fact... The discs I've bought have almost always
> ended up being Region 0, meaning that they could be played on any DVD
> player, and most of the stated subtitles were actually nonexistent.  
>
> Just an FYI: I did go down to a reputable shop, called Nastroenie, in Moscow
> that sells licensed versions of DVDs, and neither of the "12" that I saw had
> subtitles or other language selections.  
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>   

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From donna.seifer at COMCAST.NET  Tue Apr  1 17:19:33 2008
From: donna.seifer at COMCAST.NET (Donna Seifer)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 10:19:33 -0700
Subject: [BULK]  Re: [SEELANGS] The Twelve
In-Reply-To: <47F26A93.7010904@bowdoin.edu>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.APR.2008.101933.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Jane, 
I think you mean NTSC, not VHS. Yes?
Donna Seifer


On 4/1/08 10:02 AM, "Jane Knox-Voina" <jknox at BOWDOIN.EDU> wrote:

> Yes, but  you VHS get through through Amazon (that is when the English
> subtitled version comes out see Padunov's note),  they will be
> converted. Jane Knox-Voina
> 
> Dustin Hosseini wrote:
>> Just a word on discs being "PAL"... if they're from Russia.
>> 
>> I've noticed that DVDs I have bought here that have been supposedly
>> "official" versions due print "PAL" on the box and often it is stated that
>> there are subtitles.
>> 
>> This is all contrary to fact... The discs I've bought have almost always
>> ended up being Region 0, meaning that they could be played on any DVD
>> player, and most of the stated subtitles were actually nonexistent.
>> 
>> Just an FYI: I did go down to a reputable shop, called Nastroenie, in Moscow
>> that sells licensed versions of DVDs, and neither of the "12" that I saw had
>> subtitles or other language selections.
>> 
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>>   
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
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> 

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From jussi at HALLA-AHO.COM  Tue Apr  1 17:37:19 2008
From: jussi at HALLA-AHO.COM (Jussi Halla-aho)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 10:37:19 -0700
Subject: translation Ukrainian language
In-Reply-To: <001601c89414$a9c9f1a0$18aadf54@amministrazione>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.APR.2008.103719.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Kolyshnja druzhyna (not druzhyca) means ex-wife.

MRV UMVS stands for "mis'krajonnyj viddil upravlinnja
ministersta vnutrishnih sprav", a local representation
of the ministry of internal affairs.

Jussi Halla-aho
Helsinki

> Who can help me ?What does  mean exactly :
> kolishnnja druzhica
> колишння дружица - is it ex wife or
> spouse?
> And abbr. of some office which makes passports in
> Ukraina:
> МРВ УМВС.
> 
> Thank you very much
> 
>             Katarina PeitlovaTocci,PhDr.Italy
> 
> 
>
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> control your subscription
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> 

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From jdingley at YORKU.CA  Tue Apr  1 18:53:42 2008
From: jdingley at YORKU.CA (jdingley at YORKU.CA)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 11:53:42 -0700
Subject: a possibly minority position
In-Reply-To: <000301c89405$38574590$6401a8c0@D569F421>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.APR.2008.115342.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Hi,

Czech hajzl < (Austrian) German Häus(e)l

http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:bH6XOAuJ6A0J:www.kloepffer.de/Walter_Klopffer/Sidelines/HP_WKL_H.DOC+hopf+%22austriazismen&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=ca

John Dingley

Quoting Jerry Katsell <jerry3 at ROADRUNNER.COM>:

>
>
> Geoff,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Geoff, "Hajzl" probably does come from the German. It's vulgar in Czech, and
> sometimes applied to naughty children by rough and ready parents: "Ty jse¹
> hajzl!" "Záchod" is standard; "toaleta" perhaps for a hotel lavatory;
> "záchodek" for a country outhouse; and perhaps "koupelna" for a bathroom
> with toilet and bidet included-the bathtub being the "koupel". Are there
> others, in Brno specifically?
>
>
>
> Will, The next time I'm in a London pub I'll be sure not to ask for "the
> little boy's room." On "nuzhnik"-didn't the great Derzhavin when visiting
> Tsarskoe Selo ask someone, Pushkin or another litseist, "Gde, bratets,
> nuzhnik?" Probably an apocryphal event, but piquant in its own way.
>
>
>
> Jerry Katsell
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Chew G
> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 11:15 PM
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] a possibly minority position
>
>
>
> If we're talking about Reger, the secondary source is Slonimsky's Dictionary
> of Musical Invective, quoting Reger as follows: "Ich sitze in dem kleinsten
> Zimmer in meinem Hause. Ich habe Ihre Kritik vor mir. Im naechsten
> Augenblick wird sie hinter mir sein."  (On the web at
> http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse/1945/WSB/reger.html)
>
>
>
> By the way, is there any equivalent in Russian to Czech "hajzl" (which as a
> non-expert I have always assumed comes from Austrian German "haeusl") for
> the lavatory?  Not exactly a euphemism though, and it's used pretty widely
> as a personal insult as well.
>
>
>
> Geoff
>
>
>
>  Geoffrey Chew
>
>  Institute of Musicology, Masaryk University, Brno
>
>  chewg at seznam.cz
>
>
>
>  Department of Music, Royal Holloway, University of London
>
>  g.chew at rhul.ac.uk
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
>
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list on
> behalf of William Ryan
>
> Sent: Tue 1.4.08 01:42
>
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
>
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] a possibly minority position
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> It doesn't sound at all like Johnson to me. A quick look at Google shows
>
> attributions to several anons, Max Reger, Winston Churchill, Noel
>
> Coward, George Bernard Shaw, G. K. Chesterton and Voltaire, none with a
>
> verifiable reference. One Reger citation does give the recipient and
>
> date (Rudolph Louis, 1906) - but I would have been more convinced if it
>
> had been quoted in German. Sounds like one of those general purpose
>
> witticisms.
>
> Will Ryan
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>


---------------
http://members.shaw.ca/johndingley/home.html

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From uma_ni at BLUEBOTTLE.COM  Tue Apr  1 20:08:04 2008
From: uma_ni at BLUEBOTTLE.COM (Uma)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 13:08:04 -0700
Subject: translation Ukrainian language
In-Reply-To: <001601c89414$a9c9f1a0$18aadf54@amministrazione>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.APR.2008.130804.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Hi Katarina, 
I'm a native speaker of Ukrainian but the second part of your email came in figures not apllicable to any language at all :) :)
I think you got one word wrong: it should be druzhina
and yes, it means ex-wife

Best,
Kateryna Pashkovska





Quoting Peitlova Katarina <peitlovakatarina at TISCALI.IT>:

> Who can help me ?What does  mean exactly : kolishnnja druzhica
> колишння дружица - is it ex wife or spouse?
> And abbr. of some office which makes passports in Ukraina:
> МРВ УМВС.
> 
> Thank you very much
> 
>             Katarina PeitlovaTocci,PhDr.Italy
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your
> subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface
> at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
>

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From uma_ni at BLUEBOTTLE.COM  Tue Apr  1 20:13:42 2008
From: uma_ni at BLUEBOTTLE.COM (Uma)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 13:13:42 -0700
Subject: translation Ukrainian language
In-Reply-To: <001601c89414$a9c9f1a0$18aadf54@amministrazione>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.APR.2008.131342.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Oh, I'm sorry, i got the second part.
I don't remember exactly what &#1052;&#1056;&#1042; means
but &#1059;&#1052;&#1042;&#1057; stands for (I'm sorry I'll write it with Russian letters)
&#1084;&#1080;&#1085;&#1080;&#1089;&#1090;&#1077;&#1088;&#1089;&#1090;&#1074;&#1086; &#1074;&#1085;&#1091;&#1090;&#1088;&#1080;&#1096;&#1085;&#1080;&#1093; &#1089;&#1087;&#1088;&#1072;&#1074; &#1059;&#1082;&#1088;&#1072;&#1080;&#1085;&#1099;

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From dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU  Tue Apr  1 21:46:27 2008
From: dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU (Edward M Dumanis)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 17:46:27 -0400
Subject: Cyrillic encodings
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20080401105416.02d2e620@cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.APR.2008.174627.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Have you tried Mozila's Thunderbird?
Some view it the best e-mail agent, it is free and has no Outlook 
problems.
I do not think that it is a good idea to send everything in UTF-8.
Our university e-mail that I use is ASCII-based.
So, if somebody sends a UTF-8 message, I cannot read it without 
complicated processing.


Sincerely,

Edward Dumanis <dumanis at buffalo.edu>

On Tue, 1 Apr 2008, Philip Robinson wrote:

> Thanks for the good advice, David.  Yes, UTF-8 is a good solution, though my 
> university-supplied mail program stunningly lacks the ability to tweak the 
> encoding (either inbound or outbound), so I should probably replace it.  I 
> think we are scheduled to move to Outlook soon, which would be an 
> improvement.
>
> Firefox and other browsers provide the capability of changing the encoding, 
> so I pop open SEELANGS postings in two places, hoping for the best, though 
> still around a third of the Cyrillic text is garbled (undoubtedly due to the 
> issue of the differently-encoded outbound postings).  Hence my call for Latin 
> transliteration, though I realize it's extra effort for everybody.  I enjoy 
> this list, so I don't want to miss anything!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Phil
>
> At 09:09 AM 4/1/2008, David Powelstock wrote:
>> Hi, Robert (and all),
>> 
>> I'm not very familiar with email programs other than Outlook, which is what 
>> I use, but there should be a separate setting (somewhere!) for the encoding 
>> your program will use to *compose* emails. ('Automatic,' I think, must 
>> refer to how your program *decodes* incoming messages.)
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> David
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list 
>> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Robert Chandler
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 3:22 AM
>> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Cyrillic encodings
>> 
>> So are you saying I should always set 'Character Set' in my email programme 
>> to 'UTF-8' rather than to 'Automatic'? This won't cause other problems?
>> 
>> Best Wishes,
>> 
>> Robert
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> > Yes, and to the extend your computer savvy (or that of someone you
>> > know) allows, please try to set your keyboard and email programs to
>> > use UTF-8 ("8-bit Unicode"). This is the standard toward which
>> > everything is going, and so you'd be doing yourself (and everyone
>> > else!) a favor by moving toward it.
>> >
>> > Best wishes to all,
>> > David
>> >
>> > David Powelstock
>> > Asst. Prof. of Russian & East European Literatures Chair, Program in
>> > Russian & East European Studies Brandeis University GRALL, MS 024
>> > Waltham, MA  02454-9110
>> > 781.736.3347 (Office)
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
>> > [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Philip Robinson
>> > Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 11:18 AM
>> > To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
>> > Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] a possibly minority position
>> >
>> > While we're on this subject, I am probably not the first person to
>> > make this request on SEELANGS, but it would be most helpful if those
>> > who post something in Cyrillic would also  provide a Latin
>> > transliteration.  As much as I prefer to read Russian and other
>> > languages in Cyrillic, about a third of the Cyrillic text in SEELANGS
>> > postings does not render correctly, and I use a variety of web-based
>> > and fat-client email readers with different encoding schemes to try to 
>> parse them.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Phil Robinson
>> >
>> > At 09:08 PM 3/30/2008, you wrote:
>> >> Dustin Hosseini wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> John,
>> >>> Could you transliterate the Russian words?  They came out garbled;
>> >>> or at least on my end they are all question marks ????
>> >>
>> >> Not your fault.
>> >>
>> >> John's Outlook Express 6 sent his message with the following
>> >> parameters (I've omitted the irrelevant parts):
>> >>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>> >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>> >>
>> >> Seven-bit encoding will always convert Cyrillic to question marks,
>> >> and the information is cannot be recovered at the receiving end.
>> >>
>> >> I have no idea why OE decided that this message required only Western
>> >> encoding, and 7-bit to boot -- I don't use the program. Sorry.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
>> >> --
>> >> Paul B. Gallagher
>> >> pbg translations, inc.
>> >> "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
>> >> http://pbg-translations.com
>> >>
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> --
>> >> -- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your
>> >> subscription  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web
>> >> Interface at:
>> >>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> --
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >
>> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > ---  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your
>> > subscription
>> >   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>> >                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > ---
>> >
>> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > ---  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your
>> > subscription
>> >   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>> >                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > ---
>> 
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                   http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

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From rar at SLAVIC.UMASS.EDU  Tue Apr  1 21:53:58 2008
From: rar at SLAVIC.UMASS.EDU (Robert A. Rothstein)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 17:53:58 -0400
Subject: a possibly minority position
In-Reply-To: <47F1F91B.7000400@sas.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.APR.2008.175358.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Perhaps not very contemporary, but what about место, куда и/даже царь 
ходит пешком (mesto, kuda i/dazhe tsar' xodit peshkom). Or the variant 
construction я иду туда, куда и/даже царь ходит пешком (ia idu tuda, 
kuda i/dazhe tsar' xodit peshkom) ). Cf. Polish: "tam, gdzie król 
piechotą chodzi" and "tam, gdzie nawet dyktator musi iść osobiście." 
Yiddish also has "dort vu der meylekh geyt tsu fus" (where the king goes 
on foot) and "dort vu der keyser ken keyn sheliekh nit shikn" (where the 
tsar/emperor can't send an emissary).

Bob Rothstein

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From O.F.Boele at LET.LEIDENUNIV.NL  Tue Apr  1 22:10:18 2008
From: O.F.Boele at LET.LEIDENUNIV.NL (Boele, O.F.)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 00:10:18 +0200
Subject: Western professor of Russian in Russian film and literature
In-Reply-To: A<1207080822.47f29776b0b81@mail.bluebottle.com>
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.001018.0200.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

 
Dear Seelangers,

This is, perhaps, a peculiarly narrow question after the recent inquiry
about the "foreigner" in Russian literature, but I'd be very grateful if
you could name some examples of "western professors of Russian" in
Russian film (or literature). Of course, there is Bill Hansen in "Osenii
marafon" (1979) and Karl in the more obscure "Emigrantka" (2003), who
both end up in the vytrezvitel', but is that all? Any input would be
highly appreciated.

Regards,

Otto Boele
University of Leiden
The Netherlands

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From rar at SLAVIC.UMASS.EDU  Tue Apr  1 22:31:57 2008
From: rar at SLAVIC.UMASS.EDU (Robert A. Rothstein)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 18:31:57 -0400
Subject: a possibly minority position
In-Reply-To: <47F2AEF6.2010404@slavic.umass.edu>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.APR.2008.183157.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

This doesn't seem to have made it to the list:

Perhaps not very contemporary, but what about место, куда и/даже царь 
ходит пешком (mesto, kuda i/dazhe tsar' xodit peshkom). Or the variant 
construction я иду туда, куда и/даже царь ходит пешком (ia idu tuda, 
kuda i/dazhe tsar' xodit peshkom) ). Cf. Polish: "tam, gdzie król 
piechotą chodzi" and "tam, gdzie nawet dyktator musi iść osobiście." 
Yiddish also has "dort vu der meylekh geyt tsu fus" (where the king goes 
on foot) and "dort vu der keyser ken keyn sheliekh nit shikn" (where the 
tsar/emperor can't send an emissary).

Bob Rothstein

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From itigount at DU.EDU  Tue Apr  1 22:43:22 2008
From: itigount at DU.EDU (Inna Tigountsova)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 16:43:22 -0600
Subject: songs and games in the classroom
In-Reply-To: <000b01c8935c$9541f060$0301a8c0@windows2hfn6v8>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.APR.2008.164322.0600.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear John,
I think both of your examples are great, and I use very similar games and a variety of songs in my first-year Russian classes. Students love the vocab games when they all are sitting in a circle, person 1 stands behind person 2, and I show them a card with, say, the word "muzykant." Whoever says it first moves one step further sideways, etc. Songs in Riazanov's films are great even for the first-year, "Esli u vas netu teti" from "The Irony of Fate," for example, introduces them to Gen. sg. My more advanced students loved the songs from "Bremenskie muzykanty."
Hope this helps,

Inna Tigountsova

----- Original Message -----
From: John Langran <john at RUSLAN.CO.UK>
Date: Monday, March 31, 2008 3:39 pm
Subject: [SEELANGS] songs and games in the classroom
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU


> Dear colleagues
>  
>  A couple of further queries for the adaptation of my Ruslan course 
> for the
>  US market. I would be grateful if those teaching beginners Russian 
> have time
>  to respond.
>  
>  1.
>  Do you like using language games that involve students moving around 
> the
>  classroom talking to each other in Russian? I have been encouraged to 
> drop
>  these from my US edition, as your classrooms are perhaps more "rigid" 
> than
>  ours in the UK. But I am not sure of this advice, and I want to check 
> it.
>  Example of such a game for beginners in the first few lessons of a beginners
>  course.
>  They already know - Izvinite! Ya-  Vy - Da - Net, and a few other necessary
>  words.
>  - students choose a profession - either inzhener, muzikant or zhurnalist.
>  They don't tell anyone who they are.
>  - they then have to get up from their seats and regroup in 3 groups, 
> all the
>  engineers together, etc, using Russian only. Teacher stays on hand to 
> help
>  with vocab etc as needed.
>  
>  2.
>  Will there be any resistance from teachers to the idea of fun songs for
>  learners using popular Russian tunes with new words? There is an 
> example of
>  such a song to the tune of "Iz-za ostrova na strezhen" at
>  http://www.ruslan.co.uk/songs/Iz_aeroporta_v_centr.wmv - only low quality,
>  the song is being recorded properly next week. It has been suggested 
> that
>  some teachers will see this as a mockery, but I think that the memorable
>  context is a good aid to learning. There are likely to be 4 or 5 such 
> items
>  in the new book.
>  
>  Thanks for any feedback
>  
>  John Langran
>  www.ruslan.co.uk
>  
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>    options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                      http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
>  

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From kthresher at RANDOLPHCOLLEGE.EDU  Tue Apr  1 23:00:45 2008
From: kthresher at RANDOLPHCOLLEGE.EDU (Klawa Thresher)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 19:00:45 -0400
Subject: For Robert Chandler
In-Reply-To: A<C417A121.2D12B%kcf19@dial.pipex.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.APR.2008.190045.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Colleagues,

I apologize for doing this, but during the past week I have tried to
send an off-list message to Robert Chandler, but each time, after a
certain period, get the following message.  (I have checked the address,
and believe it is correct.)

So if you get this Robert, I would really appreciate learning how I can
contact you!

With best wishes,
Klawa Thresher
(kthresher at randolphcollege.edu)



Your message did not reach some or all of the intended recipients.

      Subject:	FW: Platonov
      Sent:	3/29/2008 8:48 PM

The following recipient(s) could not be reached:

      kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM on 3/30/2008 8:58 PM
            The e-mail system was unable to deliver the message, but did
not report a specific reason.  Check the address and try again.  If it
still fails, contact your system administrator.
            <exchange.randolphcollege.edu #4.0.0 smtp;450 Client host
rejected: cannot find your hostname, [192.149.97.195]>

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From vjhaynes at BELLSOUTH.NET  Tue Apr  1 23:38:39 2008
From: vjhaynes at BELLSOUTH.NET (Janey Haynes)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 23:38:39 +0000
Subject: songs and games in the classroom
In-Reply-To: <fb90fed82cbb.47f2662a@du.edu>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.APR.2008.233839.0000.>

As one without native fluency, but who loves the history, language, and customs of Russia (as well as a high school teacher of Russian), I have to say, games and songs of all persuations are welcome.  I have no problem using folk songs to teach grammatical or vocabularic concepts.  After all, don't we do it in English as well?  As to movement in the classroom, one of my kids' favorite games is "swat it!", where they swat vocabulary words on a white board, trying to beat the opposite team.  It gets to be quite fun!  I'd be interested in what you're producing.
Janey Haynes
Nashville, TN
-------------- Original message from Inna Tigountsova <itigount at DU.EDU>: -------------- 


> Dear John, 
> I think both of your examples are great, and I use very similar games and a 
> variety of songs in my first-year Russian classes. Students love the vocab games 
> when they all are sitting in a circle, person 1 stands behind person 2, and I 
> show them a card with, say, the word "muzykant." Whoever says it first moves one 
> step further sideways, etc. Songs in Riazanov's films are great even for the 
> first-year, "Esli u vas netu teti" from "The Irony of Fate," for example, 
> introduces them to Gen. sg. My more advanced students loved the songs from 
> "Bremenskie muzykanty." 
> Hope this helps, 
> 
> Inna Tigountsova 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: John Langran 
> Date: Monday, March 31, 2008 3:39 pm 
> Subject: [SEELANGS] songs and games in the classroom 
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU 
> 
> 
> > Dear colleagues 
> > 
> > A couple of further queries for the adaptation of my Ruslan course 
> > for the 
> > US market. I would be grateful if those teaching beginners Russian 
> > have time 
> > to respond. 
> > 
> > 1. 
> > Do you like using language games that involve students moving around 
> > the 
> > classroom talking to each other in Russian? I have been encouraged to 
> > drop 
> > these from my US edition, as your classrooms are perhaps more "rigid" 
> > than 
> > ours in the UK. But I am not sure of this advice, and I want to check 
> > it. 
> > Example of such a game for beginners in the first few lessons of a beginners 
> > course. 
> > They already know - Izvinite! Ya- Vy - Da - Net, and a few other necessary 
> > words. 
> > - students choose a profession - either inzhener, muzikant or zhurnalist. 
> > They don't tell anyone who they are. 
> > - they then have to get up from their seats and regroup in 3 groups, 
> > all the 
> > engineers together, etc, using Russian only. Teacher stays on hand to 
> > help 
> > with vocab etc as needed. 
> > 
> > 2. 
> > Will there be any resistance from teachers to the idea of fun songs for 
> > learners using popular Russian tunes with new words? There is an 
> > example of 
> > such a song to the tune of "Iz-za ostrova na strezhen" at 
> > http://www.ruslan.co.uk/songs/Iz_aeroporta_v_centr.wmv - only low quality, 
> > the song is being recorded properly next week. It has been suggested 
> > that 
> > some teachers will see this as a mockery, but I think that the memorable 
> > context is a good aid to learning. There are likely to be 4 or 5 such 
> > items 
> > in the new book. 
> > 
> > Thanks for any feedback 
> > 
> > John Langran 
> > www.ruslan.co.uk 
> > 
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription 
> > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: 
> > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ 
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> > 
> > 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription 
> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: 
> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> 

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From danewton at U.WASHINGTON.EDU  Tue Apr  1 23:49:13 2008
From: danewton at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Dan Newton)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 16:49:13 -0700
Subject: Shchedrin
Message-ID: <TUE.1.APR.2008.164913.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Does any of you know how to contact the composer Rodion Shchedrin?  Thank you in advance.
Gratefully,
Dan Newton

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From russell-valentino at UIOWA.EDU  Wed Apr  2 02:21:17 2008
From: russell-valentino at UIOWA.EDU (Valentino, Russell)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 21:21:17 -0500
Subject: two fashion terms
Message-ID: <TUE.1.APR.2008.212117.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Can anyone give me the English equivalents for ochki-babochki and tufli-lodochkoi?
 
Thanks in advance.
 
Russell Valentino

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From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU  Wed Apr  2 02:34:45 2008
From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 22:34:45 -0400
Subject: two fashion terms
In-Reply-To: <F95A1564051AD248BF86D88C5FDD59800368805F@IOWAEVS02.iowa.uiowa.edu>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.APR.2008.223445.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

The first one cats eyeglasses, the second one — pumps.

On Apr 1, 2008, at 10:21 PM, Valentino, Russell wrote:

> Can anyone give me the English equivalents for ochki-babochki and  
> tufli-lodochkoi?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Russell Valentino
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ---
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your  
> subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface  
> at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ---

Alina Israeli
LFS, American University
4400 Massachusetts Ave., NW
Washington DC. 20016
(202) 885-2387 	
fax (202) 885-1076
aisrael at american.edu




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From russell-valentino at UIOWA.EDU  Wed Apr  2 02:36:48 2008
From: russell-valentino at UIOWA.EDU (Valentino, Russell)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 21:36:48 -0500
Subject: two fashion terms
Message-ID: <TUE.1.APR.2008.213648.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Excellent, thank you.

________________________________

From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list on behalf of Alina Israeli
Sent: Tue 4/1/2008 9:34 PM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] two fashion terms



The first one cats eyeglasses, the second one - pumps.

On Apr 1, 2008, at 10:21 PM, Valentino, Russell wrote:

> Can anyone give me the English equivalents for ochki-babochki and 
> tufli-lodochkoi?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Russell Valentino
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your 
> subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface 
> at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---

Alina Israeli
LFS, American University
4400 Massachusetts Ave., NW
Washington DC. 20016
(202) 885-2387 
fax (202) 885-1076
aisrael at american.edu




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From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM  Wed Apr  2 06:35:45 2008
From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 07:35:45 +0100
Subject: For Robert Chandler
In-Reply-To: <6E497ADB607656479C24E6D7BF6B505A0AFB0F88@exchange.randolphcollege.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.073545.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Klawa and all,

I have no idea why this difficulty should have arisen. As far as I know,
other messages have been reaching me quite normally.  My address is indeed
kcf19 at dial.pipex.com

If the difficulty continues and you don't want to write on list, you could
write to me at
kcf19 at mail.ru  (Normally I don't check this so often, but I will check
regularly during the next few days!)

Best Wishes,

Robert Chandler

> Dear Colleagues,
> 
> I apologize for doing this, but during the past week I have tried to
> send an off-list message to Robert Chandler, but each time, after a
> certain period, get the following message.  (I have checked the address,
> and believe it is correct.)
> 
> So if you get this Robert, I would really appreciate learning how I can
> contact you!
> 
> With best wishes,
> Klawa Thresher
> (kthresher at randolphcollege.edu)
> 
> 
> 
> Your message did not reach some or all of the intended recipients.
> 
>       Subject: FW: Platonov
>       Sent: 3/29/2008 8:48 PM
> 
> The following recipient(s) could not be reached:
> 
>       kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM on 3/30/2008 8:58 PM
>             The e-mail system was unable to deliver the message, but did
> not report a specific reason.  Check the address and try again.  If it
> still fails, contact your system administrator.
>             <exchange.randolphcollege.edu #4.0.0 smtp;450 Client host
> rejected: cannot find your hostname, [192.149.97.195]>
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 

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From ornella at DISCACCIATI.EU  Wed Apr  2 07:26:37 2008
From: ornella at DISCACCIATI.EU (Ornella Discacciati)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 02:26:37 -0500
Subject: moskovsky tekst
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.022637.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Seelangers,
With a group of graduate students are working on �Moskovsky tekst in Russian Literature�. 
Bibliography is not rich (Lotman, Toporov...) Any suggestion? Are maybe other American 
scholars working on the same topic? It would be great to share information and enlarge the 
research group with the aim to organize a conference.
Thank you!

Ornella Discacciati
Professor of Russian Literature
Faculty of Humanities
Universit� degli Studi della Tuscia
Viterbo
Italy

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From peitlovakatarina at TISCALI.IT  Wed Apr  2 08:10:04 2008
From: peitlovakatarina at TISCALI.IT (Peitlova Katarina)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 10:10:04 +0200
Subject: Ukrainian transl.
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.101004.0200.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

 Thank you very much to all who helped me with the translation  of abbr. The problem is that these abbr. stand in the  head of the document and there's no  bound with the rest. The only one sure is the office which refers to the passports - MRV UMVS which could be  Department of the Ministry of Home Affair.
But the following  VPR  (could be Viddil pasportnoj registracii)  and have no idea what could be  MR UVS  which stands near the   VPR.

Any idea?  Tahnk you.
Katarina

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From ellenseelangs at GMAIL.COM  Wed Apr  2 08:18:21 2008
From: ellenseelangs at GMAIL.COM (Ellen Rutten)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 09:18:21 +0100
Subject: Russian-cyberspace.org - new editorial team,
 first call for submissions
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.091821.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Colleagues,

Since January 2008, Russian-cyberspace.org - an academic website dedicated
to Russian Internet studies - has altered its profile and is run by a new
editorial team. We are happy to introduce the new profile, and to draw your
attention to a first call for submissions for our online journal.

Russian-cyberspace.org represents scholars from various disciplines,
including cultural and media studies, sociology, political science and
ethnology. It aims to analyze the development of the Russian-speaking
Internet within Russia, as well as its various Diasporas. Our main fields of
interest: net culture and literature, net politics and social networking,
media identities, and cultural hybridity.

The new Russian-cyberspace.org issues a blog -
http://russ-cyberspace.livejournal.com/ - which deals with recent events on
the Runet (politics, culture, literature). In addition, we actively
encourage colleagues working in the field of Russian Internet studies to
send in their articles for publication on the website. We intend to publish
thematic issues twice a year and would like to draw your attention to a call
for submissions for our first issue, titled *Virtual Power: Russian Politics
and the Internet*. For more information, please either click
here<http://www.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/russ-cyb/library/texts/en/journal/journal_1.htm>or
surf to
http://www.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/russ-cyb/library/texts/en/journal/journal_1.htm.


Interested in the project? You are welcome to visit
Russian-cyberspace.orgor contact
russian.cyberspace at yahoo.com for any questions or comments.

Best regards,

The editors

Ekaterina Lapina-Kratasyuk (Moscow)
Ellen Rutten (Cambridge)
Robert A. Saunders (New York)
Henrike Schmidt (Berlin)
Vlad Strukov (London/Leeds)

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From T.Dickins at WLV.AC.UK  Wed Apr  2 08:27:10 2008
From: T.Dickins at WLV.AC.UK (Dickins, Thomas)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 09:27:10 +0100
Subject: Russian link
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.092710.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear all, 
 
Several people have contacted us to say that they are having difficulty accessing the online version of our Russian language course S azov (Russian from Scratch). The old website for S azov (http://www.gefix.net/sazov/ <https://exch.wlv.ac.uk/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.gefix.net/sazov/> ) is unfortunately no longer valid. Users should be automatically redirected to the new site, but if not, the current URL is http://weborg.net/sazov/ <https://exch.wlv.ac.uk/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://weborg.net/sazov/> . Alternatively, the same materials are available at http://www.wlv.ac.uk/Default.aspx?page=12159. 
 
Apologies for any inconvenience.
 
Tom & Irina

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From jussi at HALLA-AHO.COM  Wed Apr  2 08:36:12 2008
From: jussi at HALLA-AHO.COM (Jussi Halla-aho)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 01:36:12 -0700
Subject: Ukrainian transl.
In-Reply-To: <004201c89498$f5939990$79aadf54@amministrazione>
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.013612.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

MR UVS is most probably "Mis'krajonne upravlinnja
vnutrishnih sprav", i.e. municipal/regional office of
internal affairs.

Jussi Halla-aho
Helsinki

>  Thank you very much to all who helped me with the
> translation  of abbr. The problem is that these
> abbr. stand in the  head of the document and there's
> no  bound with the rest. The only one sure is the
> office which refers to the passports - MRV UMVS
> which could be  Department of the Ministry of Home
> Affair.
> But the following  VPR  (could be Viddil pasportnoj
> registracii)  and have no idea what could be  MR UVS
>  which stands near the   VPR.
> 
> Any idea?  Tahnk you.
> Katarina
> 
>
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> control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the
> SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                    
> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>
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> 
> 

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From Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK  Wed Apr  2 08:40:40 2008
From: Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK (Alexandra Smith)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 09:40:40 +0100
Subject: moskovsky tekst
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.094040.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Ornella,

My article on Pelevin's and Petrushevskaya's image of Moscow will be  
published next year (in English) and I could forward it to you in due  
course.

In addition to the list of works you've mentioned (penned by Lotman  
and Toporov) you might wish to consider some of these works (my list  
is not extensive, of course):

*Lilly, Ian. Moscow and Petersburg: The City in Russian Culture, Astra
Press: Nottingham, 2002.
*Olga Meerson. "Velimir Xlebnikov's Moskva, ty kto? and Andrei
Platonov's Happy Moscow: Identical Questions, with No Answers." Andrei
Platonov's Intertexts. Ed. Elena Kolesnikova. St. Petersburg:
Institute of Russian Literature, The Pushkin House / Pushkinskij dom,
2005.
* Smith, Alexandra. "A Case of Fluid Identity: Boris Pasternak as  
Flâneur and an
Invitation au Voyage", Wiener Slawistischer Almanach, band 58, 2006,
pp. 117-139. (I talk about Pasternak's strolls in Moscow in the 1910s).
*Smith, Alexandra. "Tsvetaeva's story 'The Chinaman' and its link with  
the Eurasian  Movement in Prague and in Paris in the 1920-30s",  The  
Soviet and
Post-Soviet Review, California, vol.28, No.3, 2001 [2002],  
pp.269-286.(I talk about Tsvetaeva's representation of Moscow in her  
story Kitaets)
*Smith, Alexandra. "The Return of the Flâneur in Platonov's Story  
'Doubting Makar'", in:  Livingstone, Angela, editor. ?Andrei Platonov:  
Special Issue, Volume  2, Essays in Poetics, volume 27, Keele, Autumn  
2002, pp.124-138. (I talk about Platonov's image of Moscow and compare  
some things to Benjamin).
*Chudakova's introduction to Chaianov's stories: Chaianov. A.
Romanticheskie povesti, Moscow: Ogonek, 1989. (there is also a very  
interesting article on Chaianov in one of the volumes of Tynianovskie  
chtenia: on the use of the fantastic in his works, I'll check the  
reference in my office and will let you know soon)
*Cooke, Olga Muller. "The Grotesque Style of Belyj's Moscow Novels",
The Slavic and East European Journal > Vol. 32, No. 3 (Autumn, 1988),  
pp. 399-414.
*Lilly, Ian K. "Moscow as City and Symbol in Pasternak's Doctor Zhivago",
Slavic Review > Vol. 40, No. 2 (Summer, 1981), pp. 241-250.
*Gerhard Richter. "The Monstrosity of the Body in Walter Benjamin's  
"Moscow Diary", Modern Language Studies > Vol. 25, No. 4 (Autumn,  
1995), pp. 85-126.
*Walker, Clint B.: "Transformation Metaphors in the 'Soviet Moscow  
Text' of the 1920s and 1930s" Dissertation Abstracts International,  
Section A: The Humanities and Social Sciences, (67:6) 2006 Dec,  
2175-76. U of Wisconsin, Madison, 2006. DA3222955 . (2006)

All best,
Alexandra


================

Alexandra Smith (PhD, University of London)
Lecturer in Russian
School of European Languages and Cultures
The University of Edinburgh
David Hume Tower
George Square
Edinburgh EX8 9JX
UK

tel. +44-(0)131-6511381
fax: +44- (0)131- 650-3604
e-mail: Alexandra.Smith at ed.ac.uk



-- 
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.

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From john at RUSLAN.CO.UK  Wed Apr  2 08:40:30 2008
From: john at RUSLAN.CO.UK (John Langran)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 09:40:30 +0100
Subject: a possibly minority position
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.094030.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

I have heard the toilet called белый дом - bely dom. Obviously outside 
toilets are often painted white to reflect the heat. Maybe this would not be 
used too often in front of visitors from the US!

John Langran
www.ruslan.co.uk


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert A. Rothstein" <rar at SLAVIC.UMASS.EDU>
To: <SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 10:53 PM
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] a possibly minority position


> Perhaps not very contemporary, but what about место, куда и/даже царь 
> ходит пешком (mesto, kuda i/dazhe tsar' xodit peshkom). Or the variant 
> construction я иду туда, куда и/даже царь ходит пешком (ia idu tuda, kuda 
> i/dazhe tsar' xodit peshkom) ). Cf. Polish: "tam, gdzie król piechotą 
> chodzi" and "tam, gdzie nawet dyktator musi iść osobiście." Yiddish also 
> has "dort vu der meylekh geyt tsu fus" (where the king goes on foot) and 
> "dort vu der keyser ken keyn sheliekh nit shikn" (where the tsar/emperor 
> can't send an emissary).
>
> Bob Rothstein
>
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From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM  Wed Apr  2 09:16:01 2008
From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 05:16:01 -0400
Subject: Ukrainian transl.
In-Reply-To: <004201c89498$f5939990$79aadf54@amministrazione>
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.051601.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Peitlova Katarina wrote:

> Thank you very much to all who helped me with the translation of 
> abbr.
> 
> The problem is that these abbr. stand in the head of the document and
> there's no bound with the rest. The only one sure is the office which
> refers to the passports - MRV UMVS which could be Department of the
> Ministry of Home Affair. But the following VPR (could be Viddil
> pasportnoj registracii) and have no idea what could be MR UVS which
> stands near the VPR.
> 
> Any idea?  Tahnk you.

Since you don't like the answers you've gotten so far, see for yourself:

Словник скорочень української мови
<http://www.ukrskor.info/>
Словник www.ukrskor.info є найбільшим у світі словником скорочень 
української мови в інтернеті та єдиним словником, який містить нові та
сучасні скорочення і поповнюєтся щоденно.
Скільки скорочених слів і синонімів містить словник? 10279 та 164 на черзі.

It's a good beginning of an acronym finder, but needs more contributions.

The УВС should probably be (головні) управління внутрішніх справ = 
(главное) управление внутренних дел = (Main) Internal Affairs 
Administration, an arm of the Ministry of same. You may prefer 
"department" or "directorate" for управління = управление; I leave that 
to your judgment.

Here's an explanation (in Ukrainian) of the structure of the MVS:
<http://ebk.net.ua/Book/SptpoU/3-4/322.htm>
Among other things, it clearly equates УМВС to Управління Міністерства 
внутрішніх справ. It also mentions міські (районні) відділи (управління) 
внутрішніх справ, which would be city/district offices/administrations 
of internal affairs.

And of course passports and visas would be issued by відділи 
(управління) паспортної, реєстраційної і міграційної роботи (ВПР і МР 
and УПР і МР) = отделы (управления) паспортной, регистрационной, и 
миграционной работы. Some sources have відділи (управління) паспортної, 
реєстраційної та міграційної роботи (ВПР та МР and УПР та МР), but this 
is ничего страшнего.

But then, I don't pretend to know Ukrainian. This stuff isn't hard to 
find, and others more expert than I will doubtless tie up the loose ends.

-- 
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
pbg translations, inc.
"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
http://pbg-translations.com

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From J.Dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK  Wed Apr  2 09:28:26 2008
From: J.Dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK (John Dunn)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 11:28:26 +0200
Subject: a possibly minority position
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.112826.0200.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

During the confrontation between President El'tsin and the Russian Supreme Soviet in 1992-93 the newspaper Moskovskij komosomolets was wont to refer to Moscow's Белый дом [Belyj dom], then the seat of the Supreme Soviet, as БиДе [BiDe].

John Dunn. 

-----Original Message-----
From: John Langran <john at RUSLAN.CO.UK>
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 09:40:30 +0100
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] a possibly minority position

I have heard the toilet called белый дом - bely dom. Obviously outside 
toilets are often painted white to reflect the heat. Maybe this would not be 
used too often in front of visitors from the US!

John Langran
www.ruslan.co.uk



John Dunn
Honorary Research Fellow, SMLC (Slavonic Studies)
University of Glasgow, Scotland

Address:
Via Carolina Coronedi Berti 6
40137 Bologna
Italy
Tel.: +39 051/1889 8661
e-mail: J.Dunn at slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk
johnanthony.dunn at fastwebnet.it

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From wfr at SAS.AC.UK  Wed Apr  2 11:16:53 2008
From: wfr at SAS.AC.UK (William Ryan)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 12:16:53 +0100
Subject: two fashion terms
In-Reply-To: <4A0627C6-C21E-4B7A-AC7E-897100FB9E7C@american.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.121653.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

I hesitate to intervene as a mere male, but  'pumps' is a bit ambiguous 
- in UK this is commonly used for flat shoes, male and female, although 
I believe increasingly also for ladies' evening dress shoes, perhaps 
under US influence. Lodochki used to be, and still are as far as I can 
see from Russian fashion websites, what in the UK are described as 
classic court shoes, i.e. high heels, solid back, low cut top. And 
ochki-babochki, as I recall, were known in the  UK as flyaway 
specs/glasses, or later as Dame Edna specs (from the stage character 
created by Barrie Humphries).

Will Ryan


Alina Israeli wrote:
> The first one cats eyeglasses, the second one — pumps.
>
> On Apr 1, 2008, at 10:21 PM, Valentino, Russell wrote:
>
>> Can anyone give me the English equivalents for ochki-babochki and 
>> tufli-lodochkoi?
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> Russell Valentino
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>
>>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
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>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>
>
> Alina Israeli
> LFS, American University
> 4400 Massachusetts Ave., NW
> Washington DC. 20016
> (202) 885-2387    
> fax (202) 885-1076
> aisrael at american.edu
>
>
>
>
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>

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From a.jameson2 at DSL.PIPEX.COM  Wed Apr  2 12:17:56 2008
From: a.jameson2 at DSL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 13:17:56 +0100
Subject: Two Reviews of USING RUSSIAN: A Guide...
In-Reply-To: <LISTSERV%200803301926406504.090D@BAMA.UA.EDU>
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.131756.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

REVIEW OF THE FIRST EDITION
Using Russian
A Guide to Contemporary Usage
Derek Offord
Cambridge University Press, 1996. Paper, Ј14.95 Cloth, Ј40. 407pp. ISBN 0521 45760 2 paper, Cloth 0521 45130 2.
It goes without saying that the appearance of this book is a major event in Russian language studies in the UK. It is part of a series designed by Cambridge University Press to put the insights of modern sociolinguistics to practical use in the teaching of languages. This has been brilliantly successful already in the case of French, German and Spanish, in particular in the description of language variety and register, regional variation, the acceptance of real forms of colloquial speech and popular usage as regards grammar and vocabulary. Russian has now merited this treatment, and it’s interesting to note that the volume produced is one third larger than those for more familiar languages.

There are two problems inherent in the production of a work such as this. The first is that, since it does not set out to describe systematically the structure of the language, the question arises of the logical arrangement of the material. The book starts quite properly with Varieties of language and register, and this must be mastered first for an understanding of the designations of level given in the rest of the book. It continues with broad sections on Problems of meaning: Russian words; Problems of translation E-R; Vocabulary and idiom; Language and everyday life; Verbal etiquette; Word-formation; Inflection; Prepositions; Syntax. The problem of ordering the material so as to create a logical sequence is well-nigh insuperable, but it might have been worth attempting a process model or alternatively a skills model to make the material more manageable. Sometimes rather disparate things are grouped together. An example of this is the section Etiquette, a Russian title, used for what in the UK is usually called (Speech) Functions. Subsections 6.4 to 6.17 could well form their own section entitled Speech Functions, somewhat expanded, and this might have been a worthwhile innovation.

The second problem the author had was one of volume. How much material could be included in each sub-section? Russians, ever keen on the finer points of their own language, have surely produced a book, large or small, on every one of the many subsections included here. Part of the content of “Language and everyday life” overlaps with a similar chapter in another classic, Genevra Gerhart’s The Russian’s World: Life and Language. Gerhart has, by the way, solved the structure problem in her book by taking human life as her model. Her chapter “Numbers” is 24 pages long, and she deals in full with reading and calculating arithmetic, geometry and algebra, the abacus, the Russian names for the Latin and Greek alphabets as well as fuller treatments of the topics in Offord 5.1 to 5.6. Which of these two treatments is the reader likely to want? It really is an impossible question to answer. 

One or two minor points came to mind as I worked through this book. Very little mention is made of substandard speech, “zhargon”, although the subject is now well documented. Perhaps a mention of its existence would not have come amiss. It would be worth checking the index against the glossary, to see if all terms are explained. “Valency” appears in the text in connection with prepositions, but is not listed in either. Rather curiously “Slavonicism” appears in the glossary only, and there is no section which comments on the stylistic differences between Church Slavonic and Old Russian derivatives. Even in the modern context I would have thought this was still significant. All in all, the book has become somewhat unwieldy - maybe some parts of the sections Inflection and Syntax which are available in other works could have made way for more detail in certain other areas. 

In commenting on the formal problems the author has had in creating this book, I do not wish to detract from the achievement that it represents. There are many delights to be found scattered throughout the book. I particularly enjoyed Section 4, with its innovatory sections on Transition words, Fillers, Particles and Interjections, and was pleased to note that Vulgar language (the list here consisting of about 1% of the available material?) has at least been given rights of citizenship. My own personal approach (purists please forgive me) to mastering this great treasure-trove of material is to sit down, leaf through, pencil in hand, and list the sections which I find most useful on the front flyleaf. Until then I won’t properly feel that I know my way around it, or “own” the information that it contains.
ANDREW JAMESON

REVIEW OF THE SECOND EDITION (Follows on from the first review)
Using Russian: A Guide to Contemporary Usage. Second Edition
Derek Offord and Natalia Gogolitsyna
Cambridge UP, 2005, 493pp, £22.99
ISBN 0-521-54761-X

The first edition of this essential volume, which should be on every Slavist’s bookshelf, was reviewed in Rusistika 18, 1998. It forms part of CUP’s much-praised series which describes language usage using the insights of modern sociolinguistics. In particular the description of geographical and social varieties of Russian, genres, and styles, is not currently to be found anywhere else, if I am not mistaken. The second edition has grown from 407 to 493 pages, and material has been reorganised into 12 chapters instead of the previous 10. A new chapter on stress has been added. 

Regarding the points made in the first review, it is good to see that a new section on slang has been included, although I contend that this is still worthy of fuller treatment. It is a pity however in such a large book that the index does not mention the existence of this section. The use of the word slang is slightly suspect – the modern term is substandard language in Russian and English, and many scientific studies now exist on the subject. The words argot and jargon are also used without further definition, which may be confusing. 

On the subject of Slavonicisms, I still feel that a proper section with a table of OCS versus Old Russian forms, with representative examples, would be useful, instead of summarising the subject in the glossary. Here by the way the forms noch’ and vsenoshchnaya are the wrong way round. 

Maybe Section 1.2 Varieties of language could be shortened, and it would be nice to have had a discussion of the separation between urban and rural Russian, and of the remarkable homogeneity of standard urban Russian – is it really so standardised, and what are the variations? Instead of quoting Coseriu, maybe Trudgill would have been more helpful.

A section on transliteration which laid down the basic principles and gave examples of the Library of Congress and British Standard systems would also have been very useful, perhaps something on the same lines as the explanation in Timberlake’s Reference Grammar of Russian. Students may well need a handy reference if their department has decided to use one of the standard systems.

The book overlaps in some ways with that other classic, Genevra Gerhart’s The Russian’s World. Gerhart deals more fully than Offord with numbers for example, and also gives the Russian names for the Latin and Greek alphabets. It would be helpful to have the telegraphic names for Russian letters; this can be very useful when spelling difficult words over the telephone.

However these minor comments do not diminish the value of the book. It is a tremendous achievement and we are very fortunate to have it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Dustin Hosseini
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 12:27 AM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: [SEELANGS] Using Russian Synonyms vs. Using Russian: A Guide...

Dear all,

I'd like to purchase at least one of these books; I might even consider buying them both.  

I've read a little about the "Using Russian: A Guide to Contemporary Usage"
and it looks like a good read and reference.  Amazon.com even had a preview of some parts of the book.  I'm very interested in the part about register
and Russian used in various settings (from a chat room to a courtroom).   

But what about "Using Russian Synonyms"?  Would some of you who have used this book please be so kind as to give some commentary about its advantages and disadvantages?  I could not find an online preview of this book anywhere.  If possible, an example or two of what the book offers would be appreciated as well.

Best regards,

Dustin H. 

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From a.jameson2 at DSL.PIPEX.COM  Wed Apr  2 12:17:56 2008
From: a.jameson2 at DSL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 13:17:56 +0100
Subject: Boodishnick
In-Reply-To: <000301c89266$0d218840$010a0a0a@Notebook>
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.131756.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

>From my Polnyi Russko-Angliiskii Slovar by A Alexandrow, Tipografiya
Morskago Ministerstva, 1885 page 45:
"Budochnik, s.m. a police-soldier"

-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
[mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Helena Tolstoy
Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 1:01 PM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Boodishnick

Possibly boodoshnik, a policeman, in some local version?

-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
[mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Robert Wessling
Sent: 30 March 2008 03:10
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Boodishnick

Neil,

Re-reading SEELANGS on an afternoon devoted to professional catch-up.  I
hope you and Andy are well.

Could you possibly recommend a socio-linguist who is a good speaker and can
speak knowledgeably (and engagingly) about linguistic differentiation (and
usage) in contemporary Ukraine?  We need such a scholar to come speak to us
(a mixed academic and community audience) next autumn.

Has Asya P. been communicating with you at all?

Best,

Rob


On 11/30/07 1:36 AM, "Neil Bermel" <n.bermel at SHEFFIELD.AC.UK> wrote:

> Dear all,
> 
> Here's one of those friend-of-a-friend-asked-me queries. I've checked 
> a number of obvious sources to which I have access, including Russian 
> print and online dictionaries and Yiddish and Ukrainian online 
> dictionaries and googling the word in various spellings (only one 
> hit...), but no luck. I'm not even sure if the word referred to is 
> best treated as Russian (seems unlikely), Ukrainian, Yiddish....
> 
> "A word cropped up in a piece of fiction I¹ve got to annotate for a 
> book proposal. The word is Œboodishnick¹, which is how it¹s spelt in 
> the fiction, but I¹m not sure whether it¹s correctly spelled. The 
> context is a pogrom in Odessa during the 1880s, and the word is used 
> by one of the mob, who shouts ŒWho murdered the boodishnick?¹ Could 
> you help with a possible translation?"
> 
> Any advice for this person will be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Neil
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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From snazarov at UVM.EDU  Wed Apr  2 12:51:13 2008
From: snazarov at UVM.EDU (Susanna Nazarova)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 08:51:13 -0400
Subject: songs and games in the classroom
In-Reply-To: <040120082338.28521.47F2C77E000CE75600006F6922230680329B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9C0A02970E080690@att.net>
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.085113.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Janey,
How exactly do you play this "swat it" game?
Thanks,
Susanna



Quoting Janey Haynes <vjhaynes at bellsouth.net>:

> As one without native fluency, but who loves the history, language,   
> and customs of Russia (as well as a high school teacher of Russian),  
>  I have to say, games and songs of all persuations are welcome.  I   
> have no problem using folk songs to teach grammatical or vocabularic  
>  concepts.  After all, don't we do it in English as well?  As to   
> movement in the classroom, one of my kids' favorite games is "swat   
> it!", where they swat vocabulary words on a white board, trying to   
> beat the opposite team.  It gets to be quite fun!  I'd be interested  
>  in what you're producing.
> Janey Haynes
> Nashville, TN
> -------------- Original message from Inna Tigountsova   
> <itigount at DU.EDU>: --------------
>
>
>> Dear John,
>> I think both of your examples are great, and I use very similar games and a
>> variety of songs in my first-year Russian classes. Students love   
>> the vocab games
>> when they all are sitting in a circle, person 1 stands behind   
>> person 2, and I
>> show them a card with, say, the word "muzykant." Whoever says it   
>> first moves one
>> step further sideways, etc. Songs in Riazanov's films are great even for the
>> first-year, "Esli u vas netu teti" from "The Irony of Fate," for example,
>> introduces them to Gen. sg. My more advanced students loved the songs from
>> "Bremenskie muzykanty."
>> Hope this helps,
>>
>> Inna Tigountsova
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: John Langran
>> Date: Monday, March 31, 2008 3:39 pm
>> Subject: [SEELANGS] songs and games in the classroom
>> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
>>
>>
>> > Dear colleagues
>> >
>> > A couple of further queries for the adaptation of my Ruslan course
>> > for the
>> > US market. I would be grateful if those teaching beginners Russian
>> > have time
>> > to respond.
>> >
>> > 1.
>> > Do you like using language games that involve students moving around
>> > the
>> > classroom talking to each other in Russian? I have been encouraged to
>> > drop
>> > these from my US edition, as your classrooms are perhaps more "rigid"
>> > than
>> > ours in the UK. But I am not sure of this advice, and I want to check
>> > it.
>> > Example of such a game for beginners in the first few lessons of   
>> a beginners
>> > course.
>> > They already know - Izvinite! Ya- Vy - Da - Net, and a few other necessary
>> > words.
>> > - students choose a profession - either inzhener, muzikant or zhurnalist.
>> > They don't tell anyone who they are.
>> > - they then have to get up from their seats and regroup in 3 groups,
>> > all the
>> > engineers together, etc, using Russian only. Teacher stays on hand to
>> > help
>> > with vocab etc as needed.
>> >
>> > 2.
>> > Will there be any resistance from teachers to the idea of fun songs for
>> > learners using popular Russian tunes with new words? There is an
>> > example of
>> > such a song to the tune of "Iz-za ostrova na strezhen" at
>> > http://www.ruslan.co.uk/songs/Iz_aeroporta_v_centr.wmv - only low quality,
>> > the song is being recorded properly next week. It has been suggested
>> > that
>> > some teachers will see this as a mockery, but I think that the memorable
>> > context is a good aid to learning. There are likely to be 4 or 5 such
>> > items
>> > in the new book.
>> >
>> > Thanks for any feedback
>> >
>> > John Langran
>> > www.ruslan.co.uk
>> >
>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
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>> > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >
>>
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>
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>



-- 
Susanna Nazarova
Norwich University

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From anthony.j.vanchu at NASA.GOV  Wed Apr  2 13:27:14 2008
From: anthony.j.vanchu at NASA.GOV (Vanchu, Anthony J. (JSC-AH)[TTI])
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 08:27:14 -0500
Subject: a possibly minority position
In-Reply-To: A<47F2AEF6.2010404@slavic.umass.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.082714.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

My personal favorite in all this is "место, которое не имеет двух толкований (mesto, kotoroe ne imeet dvukh tolkovanii)."

I don't, however, know if this is yet one of the numerous circumlocutions for referring to this place, or whether it was a unique quip by the speaker from whom I heard it.  Anyone ever hear this before?

Tony Vanchu

Dr. Anthony J. Vanchu
Director, JSC Language Education Center
TechTrans International, Inc.
NASA Johnson Space Center
Houston, TX
anthony.j.vanchu at nasa.gov
Phone:  (281) 483-0644
Fax:  (281) 483-4050

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From john at RUSLAN.CO.UK  Wed Apr  2 13:51:49 2008
From: john at RUSLAN.CO.UK (John Langran)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:51:49 +0100
Subject: songs and games in the classroom
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.145149.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Susanna
This is a swat game, I think, for beginners learning the numbers

7. Number practice
 Write the numbers 0 - 10 on the board in figures.
 The teacher or a learner calls out the numbers.
 Two learners stand by the board to see who can point to the numbers that 
are called out first.
 Another learner can keep the score in Russian.

John Langran
www.ruslan.co.uk



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Susanna Nazarova" <snazarov at UVM.EDU>
To: <SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] songs and games in the classroom


> Janey,
> How exactly do you play this "swat it" game?
> Thanks,
> Susanna
>
>
>
> Quoting Janey Haynes <vjhaynes at bellsouth.net>:
>
>> As one without native fluency, but who loves the history, language,   and 
>> customs of Russia (as well as a high school teacher of Russian),  I have 
>> to say, games and songs of all persuations are welcome.  I   have no 
>> problem using folk songs to teach grammatical or vocabularic  concepts. 
>> After all, don't we do it in English as well?  As to   movement in the 
>> classroom, one of my kids' favorite games is "swat   it!", where they 
>> swat vocabulary words on a white board, trying to   beat the opposite 
>> team.  It gets to be quite fun!  I'd be interested  in what you're 
>> producing.
>> Janey Haynes
>> Nashville, TN
>> -------------- Original message from Inna Tigountsova 
>> <itigount at DU.EDU>: --------------
>>
>>
>>> Dear John,
>>> I think both of your examples are great, and I use very similar games 
>>> and a
>>> variety of songs in my first-year Russian classes. Students love   the 
>>> vocab games
>>> when they all are sitting in a circle, person 1 stands behind   person 
>>> 2, and I
>>> show them a card with, say, the word "muzykant." Whoever says it   first 
>>> moves one
>>> step further sideways, etc. Songs in Riazanov's films are great even for 
>>> the
>>> first-year, "Esli u vas netu teti" from "The Irony of Fate," for 
>>> example,
>>> introduces them to Gen. sg. My more advanced students loved the songs 
>>> from
>>> "Bremenskie muzykanty."
>>> Hope this helps,
>>>
>>> Inna Tigountsova
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: John Langran
>>> Date: Monday, March 31, 2008 3:39 pm
>>> Subject: [SEELANGS] songs and games in the classroom
>>> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
>>>
>>>
>>> > Dear colleagues
>>> >
>>> > A couple of further queries for the adaptation of my Ruslan course
>>> > for the
>>> > US market. I would be grateful if those teaching beginners Russian
>>> > have time
>>> > to respond.
>>> >
>>> > 1.
>>> > Do you like using language games that involve students moving around
>>> > the
>>> > classroom talking to each other in Russian? I have been encouraged to
>>> > drop
>>> > these from my US edition, as your classrooms are perhaps more "rigid"
>>> > than
>>> > ours in the UK. But I am not sure of this advice, and I want to check
>>> > it.
>>> > Example of such a game for beginners in the first few lessons of
>>> a beginners
>>> > course.
>>> > They already know - Izvinite! Ya- Vy - Da - Net, and a few other 
>>> > necessary
>>> > words.
>>> > - students choose a profession - either inzhener, muzikant or 
>>> > zhurnalist.
>>> > They don't tell anyone who they are.
>>> > - they then have to get up from their seats and regroup in 3 groups,
>>> > all the
>>> > engineers together, etc, using Russian only. Teacher stays on hand to
>>> > help
>>> > with vocab etc as needed.
>>> >
>>> > 2.
>>> > Will there be any resistance from teachers to the idea of fun songs 
>>> > for
>>> > learners using popular Russian tunes with new words? There is an
>>> > example of
>>> > such a song to the tune of "Iz-za ostrova na strezhen" at
>>> > http://www.ruslan.co.uk/songs/Iz_aeroporta_v_centr.wmv - only low 
>>> > quality,
>>> > the song is being recorded properly next week. It has been suggested
>>> > that
>>> > some teachers will see this as a mockery, but I think that the 
>>> > memorable
>>> > context is a good aid to learning. There are likely to be 4 or 5 such
>>> > items
>>> > in the new book.
>>> >
>>> > Thanks for any feedback
>>> >
>>> > John Langran
>>> > www.ruslan.co.uk
>>> >
>>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>>> > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>>> > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>>> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>>> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Susanna Nazarova
> Norwich University
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

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From jwilson at SRAS.ORG  Wed Apr  2 13:56:25 2008
From: jwilson at SRAS.ORG (Josh Wilson)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 17:56:25 +0400
Subject: SRAS Announcements
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.175625.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Two annoucements from SRAS that may be of interest to this list: 

 

 

1) A new paid internship is available in Moscow, Russia.

 

The internship will focus on client management and marketing at SRAS's
partner company Alinga Consulting Group. Specific duties will include
facilitating sales, drafting proposals, attending networking events (such as
those hosted by the American Chamber of Commerce in Russia), and
facilitating communication between the clients and employees of an
international company. 

 

The compensation package will include visa and housing assistance, a living
stipend, and may include Russian lessons based on the needs of the chosen
applicant. The internship will last 90 days and have the option of becoming
a full-time position (with full work-visa support and salary) afterwards. 

 

The deadline to apply is April 15th! Find out more at:
http://www.sras.org/internship_in_moscow

 

 

 

2) SRAS is still accepting applications to some summer programs. This
month's SRAS Newsletter details which programs are still available.
http://www.sras.org/newsletter2.phtml?m=391

 

 

 

3) This month's SRAS Newsletter is a double issue containing two
professional interview: one with a professional translator and one with a
high school Russian teacher. It offers a new article on the history and
current state of East Siberia and an up-to-date, original web resources
detailing the current extent of Russia's vast resources (oil, gas, uranium,
agricultural land, and metals are some of what is covered). As always, the
newsletter also contains several original language resources for students
and teachers of Russian.  

 

The newsletter is located here: http://www.sras.org/newsletter2.phtml?m=391

 

 

Best,

 

Josh Wilson

Asst. Director

The School of Russian and Asian Studies

Editor-in-Chief

Vestnik, The Journal of Russian and Asian Studies

www.sras.org

jwilson at sras.org

 


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From kmhst16 at PITT.EDU  Wed Apr  2 14:17:44 2008
From: kmhst16 at PITT.EDU (Kristen Harkness)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 10:17:44 -0400
Subject: two fashion terms
In-Reply-To: <47F36B25.2030006@sas.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.101744.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Another two cents: We recently had a discussion about tufli-lodochkoi  
in my department (for Russian and the Czech variant).  We concluded  
that if you are translating for a US audience, not many people know  
what "court shoes" are these days so pumps is the better option.  In  
the US, "pumps" means a dressy woman's shoe with a heel.  They may  
have a sling back rather than a closed back, but a closed back is the  
"classic" variant.

Also, in the US ochki-babochki are more properly "cat eye  
glasses" (sometimes written "cat-eye glasses" or "cat's eye glasses"),  
not "cat eyeglasses."

Kristen Harkness


Kristen Harkness
PhD Candidate
University of Pittsburgh
History of Art and Architecture
104 Frick Fine Arts Building
Pittsburgh, PA 15260
kmhst16 at pitt.edu



On Apr 2, 2008, at 7:16 AM, William Ryan wrote:

> I hesitate to intervene as a mere male, but  'pumps' is a bit  
> ambiguous - in UK this is commonly used for flat shoes, male and  
> female, although I believe increasingly also for ladies' evening  
> dress shoes, perhaps under US influence. Lodochki used to be, and  
> still are as far as I can see from Russian fashion websites, what in  
> the UK are described as classic court shoes, i.e. high heels, solid  
> back, low cut top. And ochki-babochki, as I recall, were known in  
> the  UK as flyaway specs/glasses, or later as Dame Edna specs (from  
> the stage character created by Barrie Humphries).
>
> Will Ryan
>


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From peitlovakatarina at TISCALI.IT  Wed Apr  2 14:30:48 2008
From: peitlovakatarina at TISCALI.IT (Peitlova Katarina)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 16:30:48 +0200
Subject: Ukrainian
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.163048.0200.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Once more thanks to all who helped me. I really appreciate
every answer. 

To Mr.Gallagher - I DID like every answer. And thank you for the links.

Katarina Peitlova-Tocci,PhDr.
Italy

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From avardan at FREENET.AM  Wed Apr  2 14:57:27 2008
From: avardan at FREENET.AM (Ashot Vardanyan)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 18:57:27 +0400
Subject: > Re: [SEELANGS] two fashion terms
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.185727.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Since the translation of these definitions may vary, I made a little inquiry in the Russian Internet and found out the following links: 

for "tufli-lodochki" -- with a picture and comment: http://www.interlinks.ru/style/1690.html  

and for "ochki-babochki" -- with the explanation: http://www.prozzak.ru/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t22984.html 
 
(I'm sorry: the latter site contains somewhat slangish language). The next step -- to pick up the best equivalent in English -- is, I guess, up to English speakers: who knows, the translation, as I said, could be different depending on the location in America and/or Britain as well as other countries. 
 
Best,
Ashot Vardanyan,
University of Iowa

--
http://www.freenet.am/

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From Anne.Fisher at WILLIAMS.EDU  Wed Apr  2 15:24:50 2008
From: Anne.Fisher at WILLIAMS.EDU (Anne Fisher)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 11:24:50 -0400
Subject: language maintenance over the summer?
In-Reply-To: <D7C66F5492F56948BC9244768A3283662CFEFB@exchange03.unv.wlv.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.112450.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Seelangers,

My first-year Russian students are already asking how they can  
maintain their language over the summer. I'd like to suggest  
something for them to read, but obviously they will need texts  
specially prepared for beginning students of a foreign language.

I'd like to find material with an accompanying glossary, or material  
that is extremely simple, so that students don't have to work  
intensively with their own dictionaries. Does anyone have any  
suggestions?

Thank you,

Annie

____________________

"Reading is inescapably a social act."
- From John Clifford's introduction to a collection of articles  on  
Louise Rosenblatt's seminal Literature as Exploration.
____________________

Anne O. Fisher
Visiting Assistant Professor of Russian
Williams College
Department of German and Russian
995 Main Street, Weston Hall
Williamstown, MA  01267
anne.fisher AT williams.edu
office: 413.597.4723
fax: 413.597.3028
_____________________





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From stuart.goldberg at MODLANGS.GATECH.EDU  Wed Apr  2 15:39:01 2008
From: stuart.goldberg at MODLANGS.GATECH.EDU (Stuart Goldberg)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 11:39:01 -0400
Subject: language maintenance over the summer?
In-Reply-To: <A02C3B69-DF4E-491A-97F4-F280D8E23A8D@williams.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.113901.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Hi, Annie,

I recall reading _Chto ia videl_ toward the end of first year.  That 
might work.

Best,
Stuart

Anne Fisher wrote:
> Dear Seelangers,
>
> My first-year Russian students are already asking how they can 
> maintain their language over the summer. I'd like to suggest something 
> for them to read, but obviously they will need texts specially 
> prepared for beginning students of a foreign language.
>
> I'd like to find material with an accompanying glossary, or material 
> that is extremely simple, so that students don't have to work 
> intensively with their own dictionaries. Does anyone have any 
> suggestions?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Annie
>
> ____________________
>
> "Reading is inescapably a social act."
> - From John Clifford's introduction to a collection of articles  on 
> Louise Rosenblatt's seminal Literature as Exploration.
> ____________________
>
> Anne O. Fisher
> Visiting Assistant Professor of Russian
> Williams College
> Department of German and Russian
> 995 Main Street, Weston Hall
> Williamstown, MA  01267
> anne.fisher AT williams.edu
> office: 413.597.4723
> fax: 413.597.3028
> _____________________
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

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From ajda.kljun at GMAIL.COM  Wed Apr  2 15:53:47 2008
From: ajda.kljun at GMAIL.COM (Ajda Kljun)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 17:53:47 +0200
Subject: language maintenance over the summer?
In-Reply-To: <47F3A895.6060407@modlangs.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.175347.0200.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Annie,

perhaps you should point out some Russian cartoons, subtitled in English (I
know several are available on Youtube, for example Жил был пёс -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5au6UbfzXjQ<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73pjIQTGnic>).
There was a discussion about them on SEELANGS in December 2007, if I'm not
mistaken. As a learn-it-yourself student of Russian, I can tell you that I
love watching them: the storyline and the vocabulary aren't too complicated
and, well, they're fun. Kind regards,

Ajda.

2008/4/2, Stuart Goldberg <stuart.goldberg at modlangs.gatech.edu>:
>
> Hi, Annie,
>
> I recall reading _Chto ia videl_ toward the end of first year.  That might
> work.
>
> Best,
> Stuart
>
> Anne Fisher wrote:
>
> > Dear Seelangers,
> >
> > My first-year Russian students are already asking how they can maintain
> > their language over the summer. I'd like to suggest something for them to
> > read, but obviously they will need texts specially prepared for beginning
> > students of a foreign language.
> >
> > I'd like to find material with an accompanying glossary, or material
> > that is extremely simple, so that students don't have to work intensively
> > with their own dictionaries. Does anyone have any suggestions?
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Annie
> >
> > ____________________
> >
> > "Reading is inescapably a social act."
> > - From John Clifford's introduction to a collection of articles  on
> > Louise Rosenblatt's seminal Literature as Exploration.
> > ____________________
> >
> > Anne O. Fisher
> > Visiting Assistant Professor of Russian
> > Williams College
> > Department of German and Russian
> > 995 Main Street, Weston Hall
> > Williamstown, MA  01267
> > anne.fisher AT williams.edu
> > office: 413.597.4723
> > fax: 413.597.3028
> > _____________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> >  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> >                   http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                   http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>


From J.Dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK  Wed Apr  2 16:11:39 2008
From: J.Dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK (John Dunn)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 18:11:39 +0200
Subject: two fashion terms
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.181139.0200.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Far be it from me to add a further layer of confusion, but where I come from, pumps were what we wore on our feet for PE lessons in school (i.e. what were known elsewhere as plimsolls).  I suspect that both terms have been replaced by 'trainers', though, living as I do at the top of an ivory tower, I cannot speak with certainty.

John Dunn.

-----Original Message-----
From: Kristen Harkness <kmhst16 at PITT.EDU>
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 10:17:44 -0400
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] two fashion terms

Another two cents: We recently had a discussion about tufli-lodochkoi  
in my department (for Russian and the Czech variant).  We concluded  
that if you are translating for a US audience, not many people know  
what "court shoes" are these days so pumps is the better option.  In  
the US, "pumps" means a dressy woman's shoe with a heel.  They may  
have a sling back rather than a closed back, but a closed back is the  
"classic" variant.

Also, in the US ochki-babochki are more properly "cat eye  
glasses" (sometimes written "cat-eye glasses" or "cat's eye glasses"),  
not "cat eyeglasses."

Kristen Harkness


Kristen Harkness
PhD Candidate
University of Pittsburgh
History of Art and Architecture
104 Frick Fine Arts Building
Pittsburgh, PA 15260
kmhst16 at pitt.edu

John Dunn
Honorary Research Fellow, SMLC (Slavonic Studies)
University of Glasgow, Scotland

Address:
Via Carolina Coronedi Berti 6
40137 Bologna
Italy
Tel.: +39 051/1889 8661
e-mail: J.Dunn at slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk
johnanthony.dunn at fastwebnet.it

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From a.jameson2 at DSL.PIPEX.COM  Wed Apr  2 16:25:28 2008
From: a.jameson2 at DSL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 17:25:28 +0100
Subject: two fashion terms
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.172528.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

 > Russian Google > (top left click on) kartinki >insert туфли-лодочки
[tufli lodochki] in the search box
> and Bob's your uncle!!
Then do the same with ochki-babochki.
One picture is worth....etc
Andrew Jameson

-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
[mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ashot Vardanyan
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 2:57 PM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: [SEELANGS] > Re: [SEELANGS] two fashion terms

Since the translation of these definitions may vary, I made a little inquiry
in the Russian Internet and found out the following links: 

for "tufli-lodochki" -- with a picture and comment:
http://www.interlinks.ru/style/1690.html  

and for "ochki-babochki" -- with the explanation:
http://www.prozzak.ru/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t22984.html 
 
(I'm sorry: the latter site contains somewhat slangish language). The next
step -- to pick up the best equivalent in English -- is, I guess, up to
English speakers: who knows, the translation, as I said, could be different
depending on the location in America and/or Britain as well as other
countries. 
 
Best,
Ashot Vardanyan,
University of Iowa

--
http://www.freenet.am/

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From emilka at MAC.COM  Wed Apr  2 16:28:49 2008
From: emilka at MAC.COM (Emily Saunders)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 09:28:49 -0700
Subject: two fashion terms
In-Reply-To: <1207152699.40743afcJ.Dunn@slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.092849.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

I think what we have here are two nations separated by a "common  
language."  You'd have a similar problem translating car terminology,  
as fashion -- gearbox, stick-shift, automatic, wing, fender, hood,  
bonnet, windshield, windscreen and this isn't even going into the  
different interpretations of the word "pavement"...  How you translate  
ochki-babochki will necessarily be determined by the intended primary  
audience.  Pumps in my American English can be nothing but women's  
dress shoes -- or where one buys gas (aka petrol?)

Regards,

Emily Saunders

P.S. Listening in on all of the toilet humor has reminded me of two  
phrases I picked up from friends while studying in Vladivostok.  My  
guess is that these were rather localized expressions as I have not  
happened across them elsewhere.  One way of indicating your intention  
of heading to a certain place was to say:  Idu na zasedanie or Idu  
zasedat' (Иду на заседание or Иду заседать).   
Тhose feeling the negative aftereffects of over-imbibing they  
sometimes had to Kormit' unitazavra.  (Кормить  
унитазавра) -- a version of praying to the porcelain god or  
calling for Ralph?  I apologize for any negative mental images, but  
thought the language play was worth sharing.


On Apr 2, 2008, at 9:11 AM, John Dunn wrote:

> Far be it from me to add a further layer of confusion, but where I  
> come from, pumps were what we wore on our feet for PE lessons in  
> school (i.e. what were known elsewhere as plimsolls).  I suspect  
> that both terms have been replaced by 'trainers', though, living as  
> I do at the top of an ivory tower, I cannot speak with certainty.
>
> John Dunn.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kristen Harkness <kmhst16 at PITT.EDU>
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 10:17:44 -0400
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] two fashion terms
>
> Another two cents: We recently had a discussion about tufli-lodochkoi
> in my department (for Russian and the Czech variant).  We concluded
> that if you are translating for a US audience, not many people know
> what "court shoes" are these days so pumps is the better option.  In
> the US, "pumps" means a dressy woman's shoe with a heel.  They may
> have a sling back rather than a closed back, but a closed back is the
> "classic" variant.
>
> Also, in the US ochki-babochki are more properly "cat eye
> glasses" (sometimes written "cat-eye glasses" or "cat's eye glasses"),
> not "cat eyeglasses."
>
> Kristen Harkness
>
>
> Kristen Harkness
> PhD Candidate
> University of Pittsburgh
> History of Art and Architecture
> 104 Frick Fine Arts Building
> Pittsburgh, PA 15260
> kmhst16 at pitt.edu
>
> John Dunn
> Honorary Research Fellow, SMLC (Slavonic Studies)
> University of Glasgow, Scotland
>
> Address:
> Via Carolina Coronedi Berti 6
> 40137 Bologna
> Italy
> Tel.: +39 051/1889 8661
> e-mail: J.Dunn at slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk
> johnanthony.dunn at fastwebnet.it
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

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From wfr at SAS.AC.UK  Wed Apr  2 17:37:22 2008
From: wfr at SAS.AC.UK (William Ryan)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 18:37:22 +0100
Subject: two fashion terms
In-Reply-To: <1207152699.40743afcJ.Dunn@slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.183722.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

My youngest daughter (12) says they still call them 'gym pumps' (we live 
on the southern border of London); in my youth serious male ballroom 
dancers wore shiny black patent leather pumps, perhaps still do; 
Scottish and Irish folk dancers wear pumps, so do ballet dancers (at 
least in the UK). Most of these appear to be sold in the USA as 'flats', 
but sometimes also as 'pumps': Barneys New York are currently 
advertising 'Miu Miu Sweetheart pumps' at the sale price of $220. I also 
have found a few advertising sites which sell 'court shoes' in the US, 
both in the UK sense and in the sense of 'tennis shoes'. Utterly 
confusing, time-wasting, but fascinating - hard on Russian translators!

Will Ryan


John Dunn wrote:
> Far be it from me to add a further layer of confusion, but where I come from, pumps were what we wore on our feet for PE lessons in school (i.e. what were known elsewhere as plimsolls).  I suspect that both terms have been replaced by 'trainers', though, living as I do at the top of an ivory tower, I cannot speak with certainty.
>
> John Dunn.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kristen Harkness <kmhst16 at PITT.EDU>
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 10:17:44 -0400
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] two fashion terms
>
> Another two cents: We recently had a discussion about tufli-lodochkoi  
> in my department (for Russian and the Czech variant).  We concluded  
> that if you are translating for a US audience, not many people know  
> what "court shoes" are these days so pumps is the better option.  In  
> the US, "pumps" means a dressy woman's shoe with a heel.  They may  
> have a sling back rather than a closed back, but a closed back is the  
> "classic" variant.
>
> Also, in the US ochki-babochki are more properly "cat eye  
> glasses" (sometimes written "cat-eye glasses" or "cat's eye glasses"),  
> not "cat eyeglasses."
>
> Kristen Harkness
>
>
> Kristen Harkness
> PhD Candidate
> University of Pittsburgh
> History of Art and Architecture
> 104 Frick Fine Arts Building
> Pittsburgh, PA 15260
> kmhst16 at pitt.edu
>
> John Dunn
> Honorary Research Fellow, SMLC (Slavonic Studies)
> University of Glasgow, Scotland
>
> Address:
> Via Carolina Coronedi Berti 6
> 40137 Bologna
> Italy
> Tel.: +39 051/1889 8661
> e-mail: J.Dunn at slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk
> johnanthony.dunn at fastwebnet.it
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>   

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From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU  Wed Apr  2 18:21:19 2008
From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:21:19 -0400
Subject: two fashion terms
In-Reply-To: <47F3C452.2090807@sas.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.142119.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

I am sure that the glitterati who buy $220 shoes and spend in London  
more time than an occasional holiday know those terms. In fact those  
terms, if they are commonly used by the upper crust, may eventually  
trickle down to the average folk. On the other hand fashion is so  
changeable, take saddle shoes. When they were out of fashion the  
younger generation did not know the term even, and then they came  
back into fashion all of a sudden.

Alina

On Apr 2, 2008, at 1:37 PM, William Ryan wrote:

> My youngest daughter (12) says they still call them 'gym pumps' (we  
> live on the southern border of London); in my youth serious male  
> ballroom dancers wore shiny black patent leather pumps, perhaps  
> still do; Scottish and Irish folk dancers wear pumps, so do ballet  
> dancers (at least in the UK). Most of these appear to be sold in  
> the USA as 'flats', but sometimes also as 'pumps': Barneys New York  
> are currently advertising 'Miu Miu Sweetheart pumps' at the sale  
> price of $220. I also have found a few advertising sites which sell  
> 'court shoes' in the US, both in the UK sense and in the sense of  
> 'tennis shoes'. Utterly confusing, time-wasting, but fascinating -  
> hard on Russian translators!
>
> Will Ryan
>
>
> John Dunn wrote:
>> Far be it from me to add a further layer of confusion, but where I  
>> come from, pumps were what we wore on our feet for PE lessons in  
>> school (i.e. what were known elsewhere as plimsolls).  I suspect  
>> that both terms have been replaced by 'trainers', though, living  
>> as I do at the top of an ivory tower, I cannot speak with certainty.
>>
>> John Dunn.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Kristen Harkness <kmhst16 at PITT.EDU>
>> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
>> Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 10:17:44 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] two fashion terms
>>
>> Another two cents: We recently had a discussion about tufli- 
>> lodochkoi  in my department (for Russian and the Czech variant).   
>> We concluded  that if you are translating for a US audience, not  
>> many people know  what "court shoes" are these days so pumps is  
>> the better option.  In  the US, "pumps" means a dressy woman's  
>> shoe with a heel.  They may  have a sling back rather than a  
>> closed back, but a closed back is the  "classic" variant.
>>
>> Also, in the US ochki-babochki are more properly "cat eye   
>> glasses" (sometimes written "cat-eye glasses" or "cat's eye  
>> glasses"),  not "cat eyeglasses."
>>
>> Kristen Harkness
>>
>>
>> Kristen Harkness
>> PhD Candidate
>> University of Pittsburgh
>> History of Art and Architecture
>> 104 Frick Fine Arts Building
>> Pittsburgh, PA 15260
>> kmhst16 at pitt.edu
>>
>> John Dunn
>> Honorary Research Fellow, SMLC (Slavonic Studies)
>> University of Glasgow, Scotland
>>
>> Address:
>> Via Carolina Coronedi Berti 6
>> 40137 Bologna
>> Italy
>> Tel.: +39 051/1889 8661
>> e-mail: J.Dunn at slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk
>> johnanthony.dunn at fastwebnet.it
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> ----
>>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your  
>> subscription
>>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web  
>> Interface at:
>>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> ----
>>
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ---
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ---

Alina Israeli
LFS, American University
4400 Massachusetts Ave., NW
Washington DC. 20016
(202) 885-2387 	
fax (202) 885-1076
aisrael at american.edu




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From John.Pendergast at USMA.EDU  Wed Apr  2 18:21:53 2008
From: John.Pendergast at USMA.EDU (Pendergast, J. Mr DFL)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:21:53 -0400
Subject: two fashion terms
In-Reply-To: A<D6158637-9465-4571-8CAC-5FF02C55EB11@mac.com>
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.142153.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Apropos of the "toilet" P.S. below - and apologies if this one already came up in prior discussion - but a phrase that I always liked that I have heard among military colleagues (and which at least one civilian colleague met with a wince) is "idu tuda, kuda tsar' idyot peshkom." (иду туда, куда царь идёт пешком) 

John Pendergast
Assistant Professor of Russian
United States Military Academy
745 Brewerton Road
West Point, NY 10996
845-938-0310


-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Emily Saunders
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 12:29 PM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] two fashion terms

I think what we have here are two nations separated by a "common language."  You'd have a similar problem translating car terminology, as fashion -- gearbox, stick-shift, automatic, wing, fender, hood, bonnet, windshield, windscreen and this isn't even going into the different interpretations of the word "pavement"...  How you translate ochki-babochki will necessarily be determined by the intended primary audience.  Pumps in my American English can be nothing but women's dress shoes -- or where one buys gas (aka petrol?)

Regards,

Emily Saunders

P.S. Listening in on all of the toilet humor has reminded me of two phrases I picked up from friends while studying in Vladivostok.  My guess is that these were rather localized expressions as I have not happened across them elsewhere.  One way of indicating your intention of heading to a certain place was to say:  Idu na zasedanie or Idu  
zasedat' (Иду на заседание or Иду заседать).   
Тhose feeling the negative aftereffects of over-imbibing they sometimes had to Kormit' unitazavra.  (Кормить
унитазавра) -- a version of praying to the porcelain god or calling for Ralph?  I apologize for any negative mental images, but thought the language play was worth sharing.


On Apr 2, 2008, at 9:11 AM, John Dunn wrote:

> Far be it from me to add a further layer of confusion, but where I 
> come from, pumps were what we wore on our feet for PE lessons in 
> school (i.e. what were known elsewhere as plimsolls).  I suspect that 
> both terms have been replaced by 'trainers', though, living as I do at 
> the top of an ivory tower, I cannot speak with certainty.
>
> John Dunn.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kristen Harkness <kmhst16 at PITT.EDU>
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 10:17:44 -0400
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] two fashion terms
>
> Another two cents: We recently had a discussion about tufli-lodochkoi 
> in my department (for Russian and the Czech variant).  We concluded 
> that if you are translating for a US audience, not many people know 
> what "court shoes" are these days so pumps is the better option.  In 
> the US, "pumps" means a dressy woman's shoe with a heel.  They may 
> have a sling back rather than a closed back, but a closed back is the 
> "classic" variant.
>
> Also, in the US ochki-babochki are more properly "cat eye glasses" 
> (sometimes written "cat-eye glasses" or "cat's eye glasses"), not "cat 
> eyeglasses."
>
> Kristen Harkness
>
>
> Kristen Harkness
> PhD Candidate
> University of Pittsburgh
> History of Art and Architecture
> 104 Frick Fine Arts Building
> Pittsburgh, PA 15260
> kmhst16 at pitt.edu
>
> John Dunn
> Honorary Research Fellow, SMLC (Slavonic Studies) University of 
> Glasgow, Scotland
>
> Address:
> Via Carolina Coronedi Berti 6
> 40137 Bologna
> Italy
> Tel.: +39 051/1889 8661
> e-mail: J.Dunn at slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk johnanthony.dunn at fastwebnet.it
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your 
> subscription  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web 
> Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
>

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From donna.seifer at COMCAST.NET  Wed Apr  2 18:31:14 2008
From: donna.seifer at COMCAST.NET (Donna Seifer)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 11:31:14 -0700
Subject: two fashion terms
In-Reply-To: <7537E9E84ADB7043907093855059B2650FA81460@USMASVGDOIM214.usma.ds.army.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.113114.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

I was delighted to see this phrase recalled.
I learned it as a child from  my Russian grandfather.
Дедушка, куда идёшь?  Я иду туда, куда царь ХОДИТ пешком.
-- 
Donna T. Seifer
Tel:  503-246-0329
Fax:  503-246-7500
donnada at mac.com
donna.seifer at comcast.net








On 4/2/08 11:21 AM, "Pendergast, J. Mr DFL" <John.Pendergast at USMA.EDU>
wrote:

> Apropos of the "toilet" P.S. below - and apologies if this one already came up
> in prior discussion - but a phrase that I always liked that I have heard among
> military colleagues (and which at least one civilian colleague met with a
> wince) is "idu tuda, kuda tsar' idyot peshkom." (иду туда, куда царь идёт
> пешком) 
> 
> John Pendergast
> Assistant Professor of Russian
> United States Military Academy
> 745 Brewerton Road
> West Point, NY 10996
> 845-938-0310
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Emily Saunders
> Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 12:29 PM
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] two fashion terms
> 
> I think what we have here are two nations separated by a "common language."
> You'd have a similar problem translating car terminology, as fashion --
> gearbox, stick-shift, automatic, wing, fender, hood, bonnet, windshield,
> windscreen and this isn't even going into the different interpretations of the
> word "pavement"...  How you translate ochki-babochki will necessarily be
> determined by the intended primary audience.  Pumps in my American English can
> be nothing but women's dress shoes -- or where one buys gas (aka petrol?)
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Emily Saunders
> 
> P.S. Listening in on all of the toilet humor has reminded me of two phrases I
> picked up from friends while studying in Vladivostok.  My guess is that these
> were rather localized expressions as I have not happened across them
> elsewhere.  One way of indicating your intention of heading to a certain place
> was to say:  Idu na zasedanie or Idu
> zasedat' (Иду на заседание or Иду заседать).
> Тhose feeling the negative aftereffects of over-imbibing they sometimes had to
> Kormit' unitazavra.  (Кормить
> унитазавра) -- a version of praying to the porcelain god or calling for Ralph?
> I apologize for any negative mental images, but thought the language play was
> worth sharing.
> 
> 
> On Apr 2, 2008, at 9:11 AM, John Dunn wrote:
> 
>> Far be it from me to add a further layer of confusion, but where I
>> come from, pumps were what we wore on our feet for PE lessons in
>> school (i.e. what were known elsewhere as plimsolls).  I suspect that
>> both terms have been replaced by 'trainers', though, living as I do at
>> the top of an ivory tower, I cannot speak with certainty.
>> 
>> John Dunn.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Kristen Harkness <kmhst16 at PITT.EDU>
>> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
>> Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 10:17:44 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] two fashion terms
>> 
>> Another two cents: We recently had a discussion about tufli-lodochkoi
>> in my department (for Russian and the Czech variant).  We concluded
>> that if you are translating for a US audience, not many people know
>> what "court shoes" are these days so pumps is the better option.  In
>> the US, "pumps" means a dressy woman's shoe with a heel.  They may
>> have a sling back rather than a closed back, but a closed back is the
>> "classic" variant.
>> 
>> Also, in the US ochki-babochki are more properly "cat eye glasses"
>> (sometimes written "cat-eye glasses" or "cat's eye glasses"), not "cat
>> eyeglasses."
>> 
>> Kristen Harkness
>> 
>> 
>> Kristen Harkness
>> PhD Candidate
>> University of Pittsburgh
>> History of Art and Architecture
>> 104 Frick Fine Arts Building
>> Pittsburgh, PA 15260
>> kmhst16 at pitt.edu
>> 
>> John Dunn
>> Honorary Research Fellow, SMLC (Slavonic Studies) University of
>> Glasgow, Scotland
>> 
>> Address:
>> Via Carolina Coronedi Berti 6
>> 40137 Bologna
>> Italy
>> Tel.: +39 051/1889 8661
>> e-mail: J.Dunn at slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk johnanthony.dunn at fastwebnet.it
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your
>> subscription  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web
>> Interface at:
>>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ---
>> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 

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From n.bermel at SHEFFIELD.AC.UK  Wed Apr  2 19:04:13 2008
From: n.bermel at SHEFFIELD.AC.UK (Neil Bermel)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:04:13 -0400
Subject: Boodishnick
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.150413.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear all,
Thanks for your responses.  This query is about six months old, and was 
inadvertantly re-opened by a friend accidentally sending it to the list 
when writing to me.  So thanks for your suggestions; at this point, no 
more answers to the query about "boodishnick" are needed! 
Best regards,
Neil

-- 
Neil Bermel
Department of Russian & Slavonic Studies
University of Sheffield
Sheffield S10 2TN U.K.
Tel. +44 (0)114 222 7405
Fax +44 (0)114 222 7416

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From MorsbergerG at DOAKS.ORG  Wed Apr  2 19:42:41 2008
From: MorsbergerG at DOAKS.ORG (Morsberger, Grace)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:42:41 -0400
Subject: Boodishnick
In-Reply-To: <47F3D8AD.7010606@sheffield.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.154241.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Hey Neil,

You'll find the term in the Yiddish Policeman's Union by Michael Chabon. I
highly recommend it! How are you and Andy doing these days?

Yours,

Grace


On 4/2/08 3:04 PM, "Neil Bermel" <n.bermel at SHEFFIELD.AC.UK> wrote:

> Dear all,
> Thanks for your responses.  This query is about six months old, and was
> inadvertantly re-opened by a friend accidentally sending it to the list
> when writing to me.  So thanks for your suggestions; at this point, no
> more answers to the query about "boodishnick" are needed!
> Best regards,
> Neil

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From pstock at BRANDEIS.EDU  Wed Apr  2 19:44:55 2008
From: pstock at BRANDEIS.EDU (David Powelstock)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:44:55 -0400
Subject: two fashion terms
In-Reply-To: <D6158637-9465-4571-8CAC-5FF02C55EB11@mac.com>
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.154455.0400.>

Not to mention driving on the "right" (of course I mean, "correct") side of the road. 

-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Emily Saunders
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 12:29 PM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] two fashion terms

I think what we have here are two nations separated by a "common language."  You'd have a similar problem translating car terminology, as fashion -- gearbox, stick-shift, automatic, wing, fender, hood, bonnet, windshield, windscreen and this isn't even going into the different interpretations of the word "pavement"...  How you translate ochki-babochki will necessarily be determined by the intended primary audience.  Pumps in my American English can be nothing but women's dress shoes -- or where one buys gas (aka petrol?)

Regards,

Emily Saunders

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From press at ACADEMICSTUDIESPRESS.COM  Wed Apr  2 20:00:37 2008
From: press at ACADEMICSTUDIESPRESS.COM (Igor Nemirovsky)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:00:37 -0500
Subject: ACADEMIC STUDIES PRESS announcement
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.150037.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Colleagues, 

I am happy to inform you that our first publication in Slavic Studies, “In Quest 
of Tolstoy” by Hugh McLean is now available in print. 

Our forthcoming titles include the collection of Valentina Polukhina’s 
interviews “Brodsky through the Eyes of his Contemporaries” (in two 
volumes), "The Marsh of Gold. Pasternak on Inspiration and Creation", by 
Angela Livingstone, and “The Superstitious Muse: Mythopoetic Thinking and 
Russian Literature”, by David Bethea. 
For more information please turn to our web-site: 
www.academicstudispress.com
Save 25% when preorder. 

We have also started to work as a distributor of new Russian scholarly and 
academic books on Humanities. We offer great repertoire of titles and 
competitive prices. Please contact me to receive the price-list. 

Igor Nemirovsky
Director
Academic Studies Press
145 Lake Shore Road
Brighton MA 02135, USA
tel/fax (617)782-6290
igor.nemirovsky at academicstudiespress.com
www.academicstudispress.com

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From rrobin at GWU.EDU  Wed Apr  2 20:34:12 2008
From: rrobin at GWU.EDU (Richard Robin)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 16:34:12 -0400
Subject: Cyrillic encodings
In-Reply-To: <C417A121.2D12B%kcf19@dial.pipex.com>
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.163412.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

David Powelstock is absolutely right.

For those with Cyrillic e-mail issues, using UTF-8 is superior to
"automatic," because some e-mails come or are sent out with with an improper
metatag. "Good" e-mail programs can tell when a person is sending mail in
Cyrillic. Properly Cyrillicized mail has a proper metatag that tells the
e-mail program: "This is Cyrillic!"

Alas, not all e-mail programs deal with metatags correctly. By specifying
UTF-8, you have a better shot at getting your own Cyrillic read and being
able to read others' Cyrillic. (Even so, it doesn't always work.)

Since UTF-8 encompasses ALL languages, you are not losing anything.

If mail sent to you under UTF-8 comes out in weird letters, try changing the
character set.
If you get nothing but question marks in an e-mail sent to you, give up. The
Cyrillic (or any other non-Roman alphabet) has already been lost in
transition.

Best wishes,
Richard Robin

2008/4/1, Robert Chandler <kcf19 at dial.pipex.com>:
>
> So are you saying I should always set 'Character Set' in my email
> programme
> to 'UTF-8' rather than to 'Automatic'? This won't cause other problems?
>
> Best Wishes,
>
> Robert
>
>
>
>
> > Yes, and to the extend your computer savvy (or that of someone you know)
> > allows, please try to set your keyboard and email programs to use UTF-8
> > ("8-bit Unicode"). This is the standard toward which everything is
> going,
> > and so you'd be doing yourself (and everyone else!) a favor by moving
> toward
> > it.
> >
> > Best wishes to all,
> > David
> >
> > David Powelstock
> > Asst. Prof. of Russian & East European Literatures
> > Chair, Program in Russian & East European Studies
> > Brandeis University
> > GRALL, MS 024
> > Waltham, MA  02454-9110
> > 781.736.3347 (Office)
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
> > [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Philip Robinson
> > Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 11:18 AM
> > To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] a possibly minority position
> >
> > While we're on this subject, I am probably not the first person to make
> this
> > request on SEELANGS, but it would be most helpful if those who post
> > something in Cyrillic would also  provide a Latin transliteration.  As
> much
> > as I prefer to read Russian and other languages in Cyrillic, about a
> third
> > of the Cyrillic text in SEELANGS postings does not render correctly, and
> I
> > use a variety of web-based and fat-client email readers with different
> > encoding schemes to try to parse them.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Phil Robinson
> >
> > At 09:08 PM 3/30/2008, you wrote:
> >> Dustin Hosseini wrote:
> >>
> >>> John,
> >>> Could you transliterate the Russian words?  They came out garbled; or
> >>> at least on my end they are all question marks ????
> >>
> >> Not your fault.
> >>
> >> John's Outlook Express 6 sent his message with the following parameters
> >> (I've omitted the irrelevant parts):
> >>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> >>
> >> Seven-bit encoding will always convert Cyrillic to question marks, and
> >> the information is cannot be recovered at the receiving end.
> >>
> >> I have no idea why OE decided that this message required only Western
> >> encoding, and 7-bit to boot -- I don't use the program. Sorry.
> >>
> >> --
> >> War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
> >> --
> >> Paul B. Gallagher
> >> pbg translations, inc.
> >> "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
> >> http://pbg-translations.com
> >>
> >> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> -- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your
> >> subscription
> >>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> >>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> >> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> --
> >>
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> >   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> >                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> >   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> >                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>


-- 
Richard M. Robin, Ph.D.
Director Russian Language Program
Technical Adviser, GW Language Сenter
The George Washington University
Washington, DC 20052
202-994-7081
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Russkiy tekst v UTF-8


From anthony.j.vanchu at NASA.GOV  Wed Apr  2 20:54:07 2008
From: anthony.j.vanchu at NASA.GOV (Vanchu, Anthony J. (JSC-AH)[TTI])
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:54:07 -0500
Subject: ACADEMIC STUDIES PRESS announcement
In-Reply-To: A<LISTSERV%200804021500373440.11EC@BAMA.UA.EDU>
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.155407.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

For those who've tried to access this website with no success (myself
included), the correct URL is:  http://www.academicstudiespress.com/
("e" was missing in "studies" in the original posting).

Tony Vanchu

Dr. Anthony J. Vanchu
Director, JSC Language Education Center
TechTrans International, Inc.
NASA Johnson Space Center
Houston, TX
anthony.j.vanchu at nasa.gov
Phone:  (281) 483-0644
Fax:  (281) 483-4050


-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
[mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Igor Nemirovsky
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 3:01 PM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: [SEELANGS] ACADEMIC STUDIES PRESS announcement

Dear Colleagues, 

I am happy to inform you that our first publication in Slavic Studies,
"In Quest of Tolstoy" by Hugh McLean is now available in print. 

Our forthcoming titles include the collection of Valentina Polukhina's
interviews "Brodsky through the Eyes of his Contemporaries" (in two
volumes), "The Marsh of Gold. Pasternak on Inspiration and Creation", by
Angela Livingstone, and "The Superstitious Muse: Mythopoetic Thinking
and Russian Literature", by David Bethea. 
For more information please turn to our web-site: 
www.academicstudispress.com
Save 25% when preorder. 

We have also started to work as a distributor of new Russian scholarly
and academic books on Humanities. We offer great repertoire of titles
and competitive prices. Please contact me to receive the price-list. 

Igor Nemirovsky
Director
Academic Studies Press
145 Lake Shore Road
Brighton MA 02135, USA
tel/fax (617)782-6290
igor.nemirovsky at academicstudiespress.com
www.academicstudispress.com

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  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
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From rhoward at ACADEMIC-TRAVEL.COM  Wed Apr  2 21:19:48 2008
From: rhoward at ACADEMIC-TRAVEL.COM (Rachel Howard)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 16:19:48 -0500
Subject: Study Abroad Programs in Prague
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.161948.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

CET Academic Programs announces a May 1 application deadline for fall 2008
programs in Prague:  Central European Studies and Jewish Studies.  

CET has emerged as a leader in providing academically rigorous programs that
offer opportunities for immersion in the local environment.  Czech language
instruction is at the core of the programs, including a week of intensive
Czech language plus ongoing instruction of at least three hours per week. 
CET will provide Czech language lessons at intermediate and advanced levels
for those with prior experience; however, there is no language prerequisite
for the programs.  Students also take courses in Central European Studies
and Jewish Studies.  

Both programs feature excursions that are integrated into the curriculum. 
Jewish Studies students travel to Poland; this trip is much more than a
history lesson about the Holocaust--through meetings with local Jewish
groups and volunteer projects, student get to know the modern Jewish
communities.  Central European Studies students travel through Moravia,
Slovakia and Austria, meeting with local leaders to learn about political
and economic transitions.

More information is available at www.cetacademicprograms.com.  Scholarships
are available.

Please feel free to contact me with questions.
Rachel Howard
Czech Republic Programs Manager
CET Academic Programs
1920 N Street, NW
Washington, DC 20036
202-349-7341
rhoward at academic-travel.com

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From klinela at COMCAST.NET  Wed Apr  2 22:19:21 2008
From: klinela at COMCAST.NET (Laura Kline)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 18:19:21 -0400
Subject: language maintenance over the summer?
In-Reply-To: <A02C3B69-DF4E-491A-97F4-F280D8E23A8D@williams.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.181921.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

The Zlatoust series has some adaptations of literary works at a variety of
levels, including beginning. Russia Online (http://www.russia-on-line.com/)
carries them. They are around $6 each.
Best,
Laura Kline

-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
[mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Anne Fisher
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 11:25 AM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: [SEELANGS] language maintenance over the summer?

Dear Seelangers,

My first-year Russian students are already asking how they can  
maintain their language over the summer. I'd like to suggest  
something for them to read, but obviously they will need texts  
specially prepared for beginning students of a foreign language.

I'd like to find material with an accompanying glossary, or material  
that is extremely simple, so that students don't have to work  
intensively with their own dictionaries. Does anyone have any  
suggestions?

Thank you,

Annie

____________________

"Reading is inescapably a social act."
- From John Clifford's introduction to a collection of articles  on  
Louise Rosenblatt's seminal Literature as Exploration.
____________________

Anne O. Fisher
Visiting Assistant Professor of Russian
Williams College
Department of German and Russian
995 Main Street, Weston Hall
Williamstown, MA  01267
anne.fisher AT williams.edu
office: 413.597.4723
fax: 413.597.3028
_____________________





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  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
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  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
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From db2325 at COLUMBIA.EDU  Wed Apr  2 23:48:37 2008
From: db2325 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Dina Kupchanka)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 18:48:37 -0500
Subject: looking for a Russian Instructor in New York
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.184837.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Hello dear Seelangers!!!

I'm representing a Specialized Language Training Center, which is a private
language school in Washington. We are are looking for a Russian instructor
in New York, a native speaker, who loves language, teaching and would love
to learn a new interesting and very effective method of teaching. 

If you are interested, you please call at 301-529-1247 or send your
inquiries at kupchanka at gmail.com

Thank you all, 
Dina Kupchanka

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From sbauckus at EARTHLINK.NET  Thu Apr  3 03:14:53 2008
From: sbauckus at EARTHLINK.NET (Susan Bauckus)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 20:14:53 -0700
Subject: language maintenance over the summer?
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.201453.0700.>

I don�t wish to discourage people from reading literary texts, but the ones
available to students at that level are often dreary. When I had to read
those, I started to suspect that Russian literature was not all it was
cracked up to be. A nice set of texts for students on many levels are the
news items on the BBC Russian service at www.bbcrussian.com. People who
prefer something more stately than the newspaper format of the home page
can choose the "bez grafiki" option, which presents the texts in a single
row without columns or pictures. 

While dense, the texts are blessedly short � a headline and 1-2 sentences �
and complete. The topics are often familiar to American students, and
frequently include a fair number of familiar toponyms, names of well-known
figures, cognates, and frequently occurring vocabulary that are all likely
to help people along. I've never found any reading material that my
beginning students like as much as these, and they get a sense of
accomplishment from finishing them. Students can look up words by pasting
them into www.rambler.ru/dict, which will identify verbs in any form and
nouns in any case. Reading a few of these stories a day might be worthwhile
or at least part of a maintenance program. The BBC has pages in a few other
Slavic languages as well (Ukrainian, Macedonian, and Serbian).

If time permits you might be able to work these stories into your classes
so that your students gain some practice working w/ them before the term
ends. 

Susie Bauckus



> [Original Message]
> From: Laura Kline <klinela at COMCAST.NET>
> To: <SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU>
> Date: 4/2/2008 3:19:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] language maintenance over the summer?
>
> The Zlatoust series has some adaptations of literary works at a variety of
> levels, including beginning. Russia Online
(http://www.russia-on-line.com/)
> carries them. They are around $6 each.
> Best,
> Laura Kline
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Anne Fisher
> Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 11:25 AM
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: [SEELANGS] language maintenance over the summer?
>
> Dear Seelangers,
>
> My first-year Russian students are already asking how they can  
> maintain their language over the summer. I'd like to suggest  
> something for them to read, but obviously they will need texts  
> specially prepared for beginning students of a foreign language.
>
> I'd like to find material with an accompanying glossary, or material  
> that is extremely simple, so that students don't have to work  
> intensively with their own dictionaries. Does anyone have any  
> suggestions?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Annie
>
> ____________________
>
> "Reading is inescapably a social act."
> - From John Clifford's introduction to a collection of articles  on  
> Louise Rosenblatt's seminal Literature as Exploration.
> ____________________
>
> Anne O. Fisher
> Visiting Assistant Professor of Russian
> Williams College
> Department of German and Russian
> 995 Main Street, Weston Hall
> Williamstown, MA  01267
> anne.fisher AT williams.edu
> office: 413.597.4723
> fax: 413.597.3028
> _____________________
>

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From emilka at MAC.COM  Thu Apr  3 06:16:23 2008
From: emilka at MAC.COM (Emily Saunders)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 23:16:23 -0700
Subject: language maintenance over the summer?
In-Reply-To: <A02C3B69-DF4E-491A-97F4-F280D8E23A8D@williams.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.2.APR.2008.231623.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

The best method I've found for language maintenance is to pick  
activities that are language-related and that are entertaining in and  
of themselves.

1)  Music is one of the main things that comes to mind.  I'd advise  
students to get ahold of cds or downloaded copies of Russian groups  
that match their musical tastes.  And if they're not sure what those  
are, listen to some Russian radio online.  There are many stations,  
but my husband and I regularly stream http//:www.radiovbc.ru which is  
a pop station out of Vladivostok.  There is no way that 1st year  
students will understand all of the between songs commentary, but as a  
background to have around it'll keep them listening to the music and  
intonation of the language and here and there they'll pick up a few  
words they recognize.  Kino is a bit dated, but is one of the easier  
Russian rock groups for beginning students to understand the lyrics of  
-- Tsoi tends to sing at a measured pace with long-ish gaps between  
words.

2)  Movies are another -- and I have personally found that watching a  
movie WITH subtitles does much to improve ones comprehension of the  
target language.  Since we typically read a bit faster than actors  
pronounce their lines, you get the advantage of anticipation of what  
is going to be said and so the brain can occasionally fill in the gap  
with an aha! that's what they said.  I got that word!  A very  
satisfying feeling.  Also Ironia Sud'by is available on Netflix and is  
one of the easier movies to understand for beginning students.  I  
figure I got about a third of it when I was a beginning 2nd year  
student.  Plus it's just a classic!

3)  Read Russian translations of English language books that you  
already know or are reasonably familiar with.  Some of the first books  
I read from cover to cover in Russian were Agatha Christie novels.   
Because they were translations the syntax tended to mirror the  
original English which made for easier reading, and because they were  
mysteries, I wanted to get to the end and find out whodunit.  Also  
once when I was traveling in Bulgaria, I left my one and only piece of  
English reading material on a train.  I searched around, but failed to  
locate a market with foreign literature, but desperately wanted  
something to read.  I do not speak Bulgarian, but I found a copy of  
one of my favorite books (from childhood, actually) - Anne of Green  
Gables in Bulgarian.  Because I knew the contents of the book so well  
already, I was able to make sense of a lot of the Bulgarian with the  
help of my knowledge of Russian plus a pocket dictionary.  The point  
being that translations may seem like not real reading, but they can  
provide a certain degree of effective practice in the target language.

My two (three?) cents, for what they're worth!

Regards,

Emily Saunders

On Apr 2, 2008, at 8:24 AM, Anne Fisher wrote:

> Dear Seelangers,
>
> My first-year Russian students are already asking how they can  
> maintain their language over the summer. I'd like to suggest  
> something for them to read, but obviously they will need texts  
> specially prepared for beginning students of a foreign language.
>
> I'd like to find material with an accompanying glossary, or material  
> that is extremely simple, so that students don't have to work  
> intensively with their own dictionaries. Does anyone have any  
> suggestions?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Annie
>
> ____________________
>
> "Reading is inescapably a social act."
> - From John Clifford's introduction to a collection of articles  on  
> Louise Rosenblatt's seminal Literature as Exploration.
> ____________________
>
> Anne O. Fisher
> Visiting Assistant Professor of Russian
> Williams College
> Department of German and Russian
> 995 Main Street, Weston Hall
> Williamstown, MA  01267
> anne.fisher AT williams.edu
> office: 413.597.4723
> fax: 413.597.3028
> _____________________
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                   http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

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From k.r.hauge at ILOS.UIO.NO  Thu Apr  3 10:40:57 2008
From: k.r.hauge at ILOS.UIO.NO (=?windows-1252?Q?Kjetil_R=E5_Hauge?=)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 12:40:57 +0200
Subject: language maintenance over the summer?
In-Reply-To: <380-2200844331453644@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <THU.3.APR.2008.124057.0200.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Susan Bauckus wrote:
> I don’t wish to discourage people from reading literary texts, but the ones
> available to students at that level are often dreary. When I had to read
> those, I started to suspect that Russian literature was not all it was
> cracked up to be. A nice set of texts for students on many levels are the
> news items on the BBC Russian service at www.bbcrussian.com. People who
> prefer something more stately than the newspaper format of the home page
> can choose the "bez grafiki" option, which presents the texts in a single
> row without columns or pictures. 
> 
> While dense, the texts are blessedly short – a headline and 1-2 sentences –
> and complete. The topics are often familiar to American students, and
> frequently include a fair number of familiar toponyms, names of well-known
> figures, cognates, and frequently occurring vocabulary that are all likely
> to help people along. I've never found any reading material that my
> beginning students like as much as these, and they get a sense of
> accomplishment from finishing them. Students can look up words by pasting
> them into www.rambler.ru/dict, which will identify verbs in any form and
> nouns in any case. 

Instead of looking up words one by one, you can access BBC Russian news 
(and other pages) through a Gymnazilla server: 
<http://dev.eurac.edu:8080/cgi-bin/gymnazilla/start.pl>
... and get a page with pop-up translations into English.

-- 
---
Kjetil Rå Hauge, U. of Oslo, PO Box 1003 Blindern, N-0315 Oslo, Norway
Tel. +47/22856710, fax +47/22854140

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From fsgv020 at UNI-HAMBURG.DE  Thu Apr  3 12:27:19 2008
From: fsgv020 at UNI-HAMBURG.DE (Bernhard Brehmer)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 14:27:19 +0200
Subject: Final Call for Papers: Conference Perspectives on Slavistics III
 (Deadline extended!)
Message-ID: <THU.3.APR.2008.142719.0200.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

EXTENDED DEADLINE: April 15, 2008

 

Due to many requests, we have decided to extend the deadline for paper
submission to "Perspectives on Slavistics 3" to April 15, 2008.

 

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Final Call for Papers

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

 

The Department of Slavic Studies at the University of Hamburg and the
Department of Slavic Studies at the University of Tuebingen are pleased to
announce the Third International Conference "Perspectives on Slavistics".
The conference will take place in Hamburg, Germany, on August 28-31, 2008.
The goals of the conference are to encourage the study of Slavic languages
and literatures and to establish connections among scholars working in these
areas.

 

The following keynote speakers have accepted the invitation to present at
the conference:

 

- Patrice Dabrowski, Harvard University (USA)

- Gerd Hentschel, University of Oldenburg (Germany)

- Mikhail Iampolski, New York University (USA)

- Marek Lazinski, University of Warsaw (Poland)

- Karel Oliva, Czech Academy of Sciences (Czech Republic)

- Danko Sipka, Arizona State University (USA)

- Galin Tihanov, University of Manchester (UK)

 

Submissions from any scholar working on Slavic languages or literatures are
welcomed, including those in Slavic departments, as well as in specialized
linguistics or literature departments. We particularly want to encourage
young scholars to participate in this conference. Papers will be considered
on topics relating to the diachronic or synchronic study of Slavic languages
and literatures from any theoretical perspective.

 

There will be a special session on Electronic Resources of Slavic Languages.
The aim of the special session is to provide a forum for exchange of
information regarding the recent developments in the composition and design,
construction and use of different types of resources for Slavic languages.
We encourage submissions reporting on, but not limited to:

 

- corpora (large and small, general and genre-specific, annotated and
non-annotated, single language and parallel corpora, spoken and written
language corpora, treebanks);

- wide-coverage grammars;

- computational lexicons, electronic terminology databases, dictionaries

(mono-  and multilingual);

- speech collections;

- wordnets, framenets, ontologies;

- tools for acquisition, construction, annotation and management of language
resources.

 

Each paper submitted to the conference will be allowed thirty minutes
(including 10 minutes for discussion). Presentations should be in English in
order to open the conference up to researchers working on non-Slavic
languages and literatures. Data projectors and overhead projectors will be
provided upon request. The new deadline for submissions is April 15, 2008
(submission information and abstract specifications see below).

 

The participation fee will be 80 euros (40 euros for graduate students and
passive participants), to be paid in advance. Detailed information on
payment options and local arrangements will be provided by May 2008. 

The participation fee covers the abstract booklet, other conference
materials, refreshments and snacks.

 

Submission information and abstract specifications:

 

Abstracts for 20 minute talks (plus 10 minute discussion) should:

 

- be anonymous;

- not exceed 500 words (plus an additional page for tables, figures and
references,  if necessary);

- use one-column format, Times New Roman, 12pt, single-spacing;

- use the international transcription of Cyrillic characters into Latin
characters;

- be in Adobe PDF format (please do include all fonts in PDF documents).

 

Your abstract should present a hypothesis and outline your plan for
defending that hypothesis, i.e., it should specify research question(s), an
approach / method to the data, and obtained results. Each abstract will be
anonymously reviewed by independent reviewers.

 

Abstracts should be submitted electronically via the EasyChair Conference
Manager at:

 

 <http://www.easychair.org/conferences/?conf=pos3>
http://www.easychair.org/conferences/?conf=pos3

 

You will be requested to enter a user name and password to enter the site.
If you do not have an EasyChair account, enter the following URL:

 

 <http://www.easychair.org/conferences/account_apply.cgi>
http://www.easychair.org/conferences/account_apply.cgi

 

to obtain one. Your account access information will be emailed to you.

 

After having logged in to the system, you will be able to submit your
abstract by (1) providing an address for correspondence, (2) specifying the
author(s), (3) providing the title and a short abstract in plain text (the
short abstract should summarize the essentials of the proposal in maximally
two short sentences), (4) specifying at least two keywords,

(5) selecting the topic relevant to your paper (Linguistics, Literature or
Resources), (6) uploading the PDF file with the full anonymous abstract
including the title and the abstract body.

 

The contact author of the paper will receive an auto-generated notification
of receipt via email.

 

The abstracts must be submitted no later than April 15, 2008. 

Notifications of the Organizing Committee's decisions will be sent out by
May 25, 2008.

      

Organizing Committee:   

Bernhard Brehmer, University of Hamburg

Schamma Schahadat, University of Tuebingen Beata Trawinski, University of
Tuebingen Annette Werberger, University of Tuebingen

 

Program Committee:      

Tanja Anstatt, Bochum University (Germany) Tania Avgustinova, DFKI (Germany)
Tilman Berger, University of Tuebingen (Germany) Igor Boguslavsky, Technical
University of Madrid (Spain) Greville G. Corbett, University of Surrey (UK)
Tomaz Erjavec, Jozef Stefan Institute (Slovenia) Susanne Frank, University
of Regensburg (Germany) Steven Franks, Indiana University (USA) Erika
Greber, University of Erlangen-Nuremberg (Germany) Thomas Grob, University
of Konstanz (Germany) Eva Hajicová, Charles University (Czech Republic)
Bjoern Hansen, University of Regensburg (Germany) Eva Hausbacher, University
of Salzburg (Austria) Gerd Hentschel, University of Oldenburg (Germany)
Mikhail Iampolski, New York University (USA) Catriona Kelly, University of
Oxford (UK) Sebastian Kempgen, University of Bamberg (Germany) Walter
Koschmal, University of Regensburg (Germany) Vadim Borisovic Krys'ko,
Russian Academy of Sciences (Russia) Volkmar Lehmann, University of Hamburg
(Germany) Marek Lazinski, University of Warsaw (Poland) Holt Meyer,
University of Erfurt (Germany) Michael Moser, University of Vienna (Austria)
Stefan Michael Newerkla, University of Vienna (Austria) Riccardo Nicolosi,
University of Konstanz (Germany) Maciej Piasecki, Wroclaw University of
Technology (Poland) Gilbert C. Rappaport, University of Texas at Austin
(USA) Zygmunt Saloni, University of Warmia and Mazury (Poland) Sylvia Sasse,
Humboldt-University Berlin (Germany) Ulrich Schmid, University of St. Gallen
(Switzerland) Serge Sharoff, University of Leeds (UK) Kiril Simov, Bulgarian
Academy of Sciences (Bulgaria) Danko Sipka, Arizona State University (USA)
Frantisek Stícha, Czech Academy of Sciences (Czech Republic) Dirk Uffelmann,
University of Passau (Germany) Zygmunt Vetulani, Adam Mickiewicz University
Poznan (Poland) Christian Voss, Humboldt-University Berlin (Germany) Daniel
Weiss, University of Zurich (Switzerland) Bjoern Wiemer, Johannes Gutenberg
University Mainz (Germany) Georg Witte, Free University of Berlin (Germany)
Gerhild Zybatow, University of Leipzig (Germany)

 

Important Dates:

Abstract submission deadline: April 15, 2008 (extended) Notification of
acceptance: May 25, 2008

Conference: August 28-31, 2008

 

Conference webpage:  <http://www.sfb441.uni-tuebingen.de/pos3/>
http://www.sfb441.uni-tuebingen.de/pos3/

Contact: pos3 at barlach.sfb.uni-tuebingen.de Submission page:
<http://www.easychair.org/conferences/?conf=pos3>
http://www.easychair.org/conferences/?conf=pos3

 


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From lino59 at AMERITECH.NET  Thu Apr  3 13:35:59 2008
From: lino59 at AMERITECH.NET (Deborah Hoffman)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 06:35:59 -0700
Subject: kuda tsar' idet peshkom
In-Reply-To: <SEELANGS%200804021619531301.132F@BAMA.UA.EDU>
Message-ID: <THU.3.APR.2008.063559.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

This is an actual expression? And here all these years I thought Tom Lehrer had made it up (in "Lobachevsky").
   
  >Date:    Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:21:53 -0400
>From:    "Pendergast, J. Mr DFL" <John.Pendergast at USMA.EDU>
>Subject: Re: two fashion terms
>
>Apropos of the "toilet" P.S. below - and apologies if this one already
 >came up in prior discussion - but a phrase that I always liked that I
> have heard among military colleagues (and which at least one civilian
 >colleague met with a wince) is "idu tuda, kuda tsar' idyot peshkom."
 >(èäó òóäà, êóäà öàðü èä¸ò ïåøêîì) 
>
>John Pendergast
>Assistant Professor of Russian
>United States Military Academy
>745 Brewerton Road
>West Point, NY 10996
>845-938-0310



Deborah Hoffman, Esq.
Russian > English Legal and Literary Translations

A man ceases to be a beginner in any given science and becomes a master in that science when he has learned that he is going to be a beginner all his life. -- R. G. Collingwood

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From John.Pendergast at USMA.EDU  Thu Apr  3 13:42:27 2008
From: John.Pendergast at USMA.EDU (Pendergast, J. Mr DFL)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 09:42:27 -0400
Subject: kuda tsar' idet peshkom
In-Reply-To: A<418588.30615.qm@web80606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <THU.3.APR.2008.094227.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Certainly, though as Donna Seifer correctly pointed out, it should be KHODIT, since the Tsar would presumably make this trip quite regularly. 

-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Deborah Hoffman
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 9:36 AM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: [SEELANGS] kuda tsar' idet peshkom

This is an actual expression? And here all these years I thought Tom Lehrer had made it up (in "Lobachevsky").
   
  >Date:    Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:21:53 -0400
>From:    "Pendergast, J. Mr DFL" <John.Pendergast at USMA.EDU>
>Subject: Re: two fashion terms
>
>Apropos of the "toilet" P.S. below - and apologies if this one already
 >came up in prior discussion - but a phrase that I always liked that I
> have heard among military colleagues (and which at least one civilian
 >colleague met with a wince) is "idu tuda, kuda tsar' idyot peshkom."
 >(èäó òóäà, êóäà öàðü èä¸ò ïåøêîì) 
>
>John Pendergast
>Assistant Professor of Russian
>United States Military Academy
>745 Brewerton Road
>West Point, NY 10996
>845-938-0310



Deborah Hoffman, Esq.
Russian > English Legal and Literary Translations

A man ceases to be a beginner in any given science and becomes a master in that science when he has learned that he is going to be a beginner all his life. -- R. G. Collingwood

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From fjm6 at COLUMBIA.EDU  Thu Apr  3 14:00:10 2008
From: fjm6 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Frank J Miller)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 10:00:10 -0400
Subject: language maintenance over the summer?
In-Reply-To: <66CB3186-5401-4EF1-B0AD-0AB9A491439E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <THU.3.APR.2008.100010.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

These are wonderful suggestions. I would also recommend some of the 
numerous "audioknigi" MP-3 disks available from places like the St. 
Petersburg Bookstore in NY - www.ruskniga.com. These can be 
transferred to iPods. I recommend that students listen to a short 
text (Chekhov's short stories are available) over and over until they 
can understand every word - this greatly improves listening 
comprehension.

FM



>The best method I've found for language maintenance is to pick 
>activities that are language-related and that are entertaining in 
>and of themselves.
>
>1)  Music is one of the main things that comes to mind.  I'd advise 
>students to get ahold of cds or downloaded copies of Russian groups 
>that match their musical tastes.  And if they're not sure what those 
>are, listen to some Russian radio online.  There are many stations, 
>but my husband and I regularly stream http//:www.radiovbc.ru which 
>is a pop station out of Vladivostok.  There is no way that 1st year 
>students will understand all of the between songs commentary, but as 
>a background to have around it'll keep them listening to the music 
>and intonation of the language and here and there they'll pick up a 
>few words they recognize.  Kino is a bit dated, but is one of the 
>easier Russian rock groups for beginning students to understand the 
>lyrics of -- Tsoi tends to sing at a measured pace with long-ish 
>gaps between words.
>
>2)  Movies are another -- and I have personally found that watching 
>a movie WITH subtitles does much to improve ones comprehension of 
>the target language.  Since we typically read a bit faster than 
>actors pronounce their lines, you get the advantage of anticipation 
>of what is going to be said and so the brain can occasionally fill 
>in the gap with an aha! that's what they said.  I got that word!  A 
>very satisfying feeling.  Also Ironia Sud'by is available on Netflix 
>and is one of the easier movies to understand for beginning 
>students.  I figure I got about a third of it when I was a beginning 
>2nd year student.  Plus it's just a classic!
>
>3)  Read Russian translations of English language books that you 
>already know or are reasonably familiar with.  Some of the first 
>books I read from cover to cover in Russian were Agatha Christie 
>novels.  
>Because they were translations the syntax tended to mirror the 
>original English which made for easier reading, and because they 
>were mysteries, I wanted to get to the end and find out whodunit. 
>Also once when I was traveling in Bulgaria, I left my one and only 
>piece of English reading material on a train.  I searched around, 
>but failed to locate a market with foreign literature, but 
>desperately wanted something to read.  I do not speak Bulgarian, but 
>I found a copy of one of my favorite books (from childhood, 
>actually) - Anne of Green Gables in Bulgarian.  Because I knew the 
>contents of the book so well already, I was able to make sense of a 
>lot of the Bulgarian with the help of my knowledge of Russian plus a 
>pocket dictionary.  The point being that translations may seem like 
>not real reading, but they can provide a certain degree of effective 
>practice in the target language.
>
>My two (three?) cents, for what they're worth!
>
>Regards,
>
>Emily Saunders
>
>On Apr 2, 2008, at 8:24 AM, Anne Fisher wrote:
>
>>Dear Seelangers,
>>
>>My first-year Russian students are already asking how they can 
>>maintain their language over the summer. I'd like to suggest 
>>something for them to read, but obviously they will need texts 
>>specially prepared for beginning students of a foreign language.
>>
>>I'd like to find material with an accompanying glossary, or 
>>material that is extremely simple, so that students don't have to 
>>work intensively with their own dictionaries. Does anyone have any 
>>suggestions?
>>
>>Thank you,
>>
>>Annie
>>
>>____________________
>>
>>"Reading is inescapably a social act."
>>- From John Clifford's introduction to a collection of articles  on 
>>Louise Rosenblatt's seminal Literature as Exploration.
>>____________________
>>
>>Anne O. Fisher
>>Visiting Assistant Professor of Russian
>>Williams College
>>Department of German and Russian
>>995 Main Street, Weston Hall
>>Williamstown, MA  01267
>>anne.fisher AT williams.edu
>>office: 413.597.4723
>>fax: 413.597.3028
>>_____________________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>>options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>>                   http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>
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>-------------------------------------------------------------------------


-- 
Frank J. Miller
Professor of Slavic Languages
Russian Language Coordinator
Department of Slavic Languages
Columbia University
New York, NY 10027

Phone: 212-854-8155
Fax: 212-854-5009

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From Franssuasso at HOTMAIL.COM  Thu Apr  3 14:56:16 2008
From: Franssuasso at HOTMAIL.COM (Frans Suasso)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 16:56:16 +0200
Subject: kuda tsar' idet peshkom
Message-ID: <THU.3.APR.2008.165616.0200.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

The expression is German, or rather Austrian, because the Austrians had an 
Emperor long  before the Germans did.

The Expression is:

Wo selbst der Kaiser zu Fuss geht.

Some others  borrowed it. Not only the Russians,  but also the Dutch
:
Waar zelfs de keizer te voet gaat.

I( do not know about other  languages. Does anybody?

Frans Suasso, Naarden the Netherlands

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Deborah Hoffman" <lino59 at AMERITECH.NET>
To: <SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 3:35 PM
Subject: [SEELANGS] kuda tsar' idet peshkom


> This is an actual expression? And here all these years I thought Tom 
> Lehrer had made it up (in "Lobachevsky").
>
>  >Date:    Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:21:53 -0400
>>From:    "Pendergast, J. Mr DFL" <John.Pendergast at USMA.EDU>
>>Subject: Re: two fashion terms
>>
>>Apropos of the "toilet" P.S. below - and apologies if this one already
> >came up in prior discussion - but a phrase that I always liked that I
>> have heard among military colleagues (and which at least one civilian
> >colleague met with a wince) is "idu tuda, kuda tsar' idyot peshkom."
> >(èäó òóäà, êóäà öàðü èä¸ò ïåøêîì)
>>
>>John Pendergast
>>Assistant Professor of Russian
>>United States Military Academy
>>745 Brewerton Road
>>West Point, NY 10996
>>845-938-0310
>
>
>
> Deborah Hoffman, Esq.
> Russian > English Legal and Literary Translations
>
> A man ceases to be a beginner in any given science and becomes a master in 
> that science when he has learned that he is going to be a beginner all his 
> life. -- R. G. Collingwood
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> 

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From emilka at MAC.COM  Thu Apr  3 15:04:18 2008
From: emilka at MAC.COM (Emily Saunders)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 08:04:18 -0700
Subject: kuda tsar' idet peshkom
In-Reply-To: <BAY142-DAV171E6BC8E0F444454B9E7AFF70@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <THU.3.APR.2008.080418.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

The first language I ever heard the expression in was Croatian (my  
apologies for the likely spelling errors, it's been awhile and I'm not  
sure how to add the required diacriticals):  Idem tamo gdje i car ide  
pesice.

Emily

On Apr 3, 2008, at 7:56 AM, Frans Suasso wrote:

> The expression is German, or rather Austrian, because the Austrians  
> had an Emperor long  before the Germans did.
>
> The Expression is:
>
> Wo selbst der Kaiser zu Fuss geht.
>
> Some others  borrowed it. Not only the Russians,  but also the Dutch
> :
> Waar zelfs de keizer te voet gaat.
>
> I( do not know about other  languages. Does anybody?
>
> Frans Suasso, Naarden the Netherlands
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deborah Hoffman" <lino59 at AMERITECH.NET 
> >
> To: <SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU>
> Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 3:35 PM
> Subject: [SEELANGS] kuda tsar' idet peshkom
>
>
>> This is an actual expression? And here all these years I thought  
>> Tom Lehrer had made it up (in "Lobachevsky").
>>
>> >Date:    Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:21:53 -0400
>>> From:    "Pendergast, J. Mr DFL" <John.Pendergast at USMA.EDU>
>>> Subject: Re: two fashion terms
>>>
>>> Apropos of the "toilet" P.S. below - and apologies if this one  
>>> already
>> >came up in prior discussion - but a phrase that I always liked  
>> that I
>>> have heard among military colleagues (and which at least one  
>>> civilian
>> >colleague met with a wince) is "idu tuda, kuda tsar' idyot peshkom."
>> >(èäó òóäà, êóäà öàðü èä¸ò ïåøêîì)
>>>
>>> John Pendergast
>>> Assistant Professor of Russian
>>> United States Military Academy
>>> 745 Brewerton Road
>>> West Point, NY 10996
>>> 845-938-0310
>>
>>
>>
>> Deborah Hoffman, Esq.
>> Russian > English Legal and Literary Translations
>>
>> A man ceases to be a beginner in any given science and becomes a  
>> master in that science when he has learned that he is going to be a  
>> beginner all his life. -- R. G. Collingwood
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your  
>> subscription
>> options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>>                   http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                   http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

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From kpking at MTHOLYOKE.EDU  Thu Apr  3 15:12:49 2008
From: kpking at MTHOLYOKE.EDU (Katerina King)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 11:12:49 -0400
Subject: kuda tsar' idet peshkom
In-Reply-To: <BAY142-DAV171E6BC8E0F444454B9E7AFF70@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <THU.3.APR.2008.111249.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Czech:
kam i císař pán chodí pěšky

On 4/3/2008 10:56 AM, Frans Suasso wrote:
> The expression is German, or rather Austrian, because the Austrians had 
> an Emperor long  before the Germans did.
> 
> The Expression is:
> 
> Wo selbst der Kaiser zu Fuss geht.
> 
> Some others  borrowed it. Not only the Russians,  but also the Dutch
> :
> Waar zelfs de keizer te voet gaat.
> 
> I( do not know about other  languages. Does anybody?
> 
> Frans Suasso, Naarden the Netherlands
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deborah Hoffman" <lino59 at AMERITECH.NET>
> To: <SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU>
> Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 3:35 PM
> Subject: [SEELANGS] kuda tsar' idet peshkom
> 
> 
>> This is an actual expression? And here all these years I thought Tom 
>> Lehrer had made it up (in "Lobachevsky").

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From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU  Thu Apr  3 15:16:30 2008
From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 11:16:30 -0400
Subject: kuda tsar' peshkom xodil
In-Reply-To: <418588.30615.qm@web80606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <THU.3.APR.2008.111630.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

The actual expression is kuda tsar' peshkom xodil: http:// 
www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US% 
3Aofficial&q=%22%D0%BA%D1%83%D0%B4%D0%B0+%D1%86%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%8C+%D0% 
BF%D0%B5%D1%88%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BC%22&btnG=Search

Not that I could find anything to that effect in Tom Lehrer.

On Apr 3, 2008, at 9:35 AM, Deborah Hoffman wrote:

> This is an actual expression? And here all these years I thought  
> Tom Lehrer had made it up (in "Lobachevsky").
>
>> Date:    Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:21:53 -0400
>> From:    "Pendergast, J. Mr DFL" <John.Pendergast at USMA.EDU>
>> Subject: Re: two fashion terms
>>
>> Apropos of the "toilet" P.S. below - and apologies if this one  
>> already
>> came up in prior discussion - but a phrase that I always liked that I
>> have heard among military colleagues (and which at least one civilian
>> colleague met with a wince) is "idu tuda, kuda tsar' idyot peshkom."
>> (èäó òóäà, êóäà öàðü èä¸ò ïåøêîì)


Alina Israeli
LFS, American University
4400 Massachusetts Ave., NW
Washington DC. 20016
(202) 885-2387 	
fax (202) 885-1076
aisrael at american.edu




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From Franssuasso at HOTMAIL.COM  Thu Apr  3 15:24:21 2008
From: Franssuasso at HOTMAIL.COM (Frans Suasso)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 17:24:21 +0200
Subject: kuda tsar' peshkom xodil
Message-ID: <THU.3.APR.2008.172421.0200.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

You are right. Sunce the revolution Russians would use the past tense.

Frans Suasso


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alina Israeli" <aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU>
To: <SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] kuda tsar' peshkom xodil


The actual expression is kuda tsar' peshkom xodil: http://
www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%
3Aofficial&q=%22%D0%BA%D1%83%D0%B4%D0%B0+%D1%86%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%8C+%D0%
BF%D0%B5%D1%88%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BC%22&btnG=Search

Not that I could find anything to that effect in Tom Lehrer.

On Apr 3, 2008, at 9:35 AM, Deborah Hoffman wrote:

> This is an actual expression? And here all these years I thought  Tom 
> Lehrer had made it up (in "Lobachevsky").
>
>> Date:    Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:21:53 -0400
>> From:    "Pendergast, J. Mr DFL" <John.Pendergast at USMA.EDU>
>> Subject: Re: two fashion terms
>>
>> Apropos of the "toilet" P.S. below - and apologies if this one  already
>> came up in prior discussion - but a phrase that I always liked that I
>> have heard among military colleagues (and which at least one civilian
>> colleague met with a wince) is "idu tuda, kuda tsar' idyot peshkom."
>> (èäó òóäà, êóäà öàðü èä¸ò ïåøêîì)


Alina Israeli
LFS, American University
4400 Massachusetts Ave., NW
Washington DC. 20016
(202) 885-2387
fax (202) 885-1076
aisrael at american.edu




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From meersono at GEORGETOWN.EDU  Thu Apr  3 15:39:15 2008
From: meersono at GEORGETOWN.EDU (Olga Meerson)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 10:39:15 -0500
Subject: kuda tsar' peshkom xodil
Message-ID: <THU.3.APR.2008.103915.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

I heard it in the present. But the verb has definitely to be multidirectional, and so it was: kuda tsar' peshkom xodit. Alinushka, your version is politically updated but my experience still uncluded the present tense verb--and I am your generation, not older.
o.m.

----- Original Message -----
From: Frans Suasso <Franssuasso at HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Thursday, April 3, 2008 10:24 am
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] kuda tsar' peshkom xodil

> You are right. Sunce the revolution Russians would use the past tense.
> 
> Frans Suasso
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Alina Israeli" <aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU>
> To: <SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU>
> Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 5:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] kuda tsar' peshkom xodil
> 
> 
> The actual expression is kuda tsar' peshkom xodil: http://
> www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%
> 3Aofficial&q=%22%D0%BA%D1%83%D0%B4%D0%B0+%D1%86%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%8C+%D0%
> BF%D0%B5%D1%88%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BC%22&btnG=Search
> 
> Not that I could find anything to that effect in Tom Lehrer.
> 
> On Apr 3, 2008, at 9:35 AM, Deborah Hoffman wrote:
> 
> > This is an actual expression? And here all these years I thought  
> Tom 
> > Lehrer had made it up (in "Lobachevsky").
> >
> >> Date:    Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:21:53 -0400
> >> From:    "Pendergast, J. Mr DFL" <John.Pendergast at USMA.EDU>
> >> Subject: Re: two fashion terms
> >>
> >> Apropos of the "toilet" P.S. below - and apologies if this one  
> already>> came up in prior discussion - but a phrase that I always 
> liked that I
> >> have heard among military colleagues (and which at least one 
> civilian>> colleague met with a wince) is "idu tuda, kuda tsar' 
> idyot peshkom."
> >> (èäó òóäà, êóäà öàðü èä¸ò ïåøêîì)
> 
> 
> Alina Israeli
> LFS, American University
> 4400 Massachusetts Ave., NW
> Washington DC. 20016
> (202) 885-2387
> fax (202) 885-1076
> aisrael at american.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your 
> subscription  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS 
> Web Interface at:
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From hcaloger at LIBRARY.UWATERLOO.CA  Thu Apr  3 15:50:07 2008
From: hcaloger at LIBRARY.UWATERLOO.CA (Helena Calogeridis)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 11:50:07 -0400
Subject: kuda tsar' idet peshkom
In-Reply-To: <BAY142-DAV171E6BC8E0F444454B9E7AFF70@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <THU.3.APR.2008.115007.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Yes, in the Czech language the saying goes: Kam i císař chodí pěšky.
H. Calogeridis

-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Frans Suasso
Sent: Thursday, April 3, 2008 10:56 AM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] kuda tsar' idet peshkom

The expression is German, or rather Austrian, because the Austrians had an 
Emperor long  before the Germans did.

The Expression is:

Wo selbst der Kaiser zu Fuss geht.

Some others  borrowed it. Not only the Russians,  but also the Dutch
:
Waar zelfs de keizer te voet gaat.

I( do not know about other  languages. Does anybody?

Frans Suasso, Naarden the Netherlands

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Deborah Hoffman" <lino59 at AMERITECH.NET>
To: <SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 3:35 PM
Subject: [SEELANGS] kuda tsar' idet peshkom


> This is an actual expression? And here all these years I thought Tom 
> Lehrer had made it up (in "Lobachevsky").
>
>  >Date:    Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:21:53 -0400
>>From:    "Pendergast, J. Mr DFL" <John.Pendergast at USMA.EDU>
>>Subject: Re: two fashion terms
>>
>>Apropos of the "toilet" P.S. below - and apologies if this one already
> >came up in prior discussion - but a phrase that I always liked that I
>> have heard among military colleagues (and which at least one civilian
> >colleague met with a wince) is "idu tuda, kuda tsar' idyot peshkom."
> >(èäó òóäà, êóäà öàðü èä¸ò ïåøêîì)
>>
>>John Pendergast
>>Assistant Professor of Russian
>>United States Military Academy
>>745 Brewerton Road
>>West Point, NY 10996
>>845-938-0310
>
>
>
> Deborah Hoffman, Esq.
> Russian > English Legal and Literary Translations
>
> A man ceases to be a beginner in any given science and becomes a master in 
> that science when he has learned that he is going to be a beginner all his 
> life. -- R. G. Collingwood
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> 

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From hcaloger at LIBRARY.UWATERLOO.CA  Thu Apr  3 16:04:52 2008
From: hcaloger at LIBRARY.UWATERLOO.CA (Helena Calogeridis)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 12:04:52 -0400
Subject: kuda tsar' idet peshkom
In-Reply-To: <005a01c895a2$67b45050$371cf0f0$@uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <THU.3.APR.2008.120452.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Sorry, the message got somewhat scrambled. Here is the full phrase, minus the diacritics: Kam i cisar chodi pesky. 

-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Helena Calogeridis
Sent: Thursday, April 3, 2008 11:50 AM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] kuda tsar' idet peshkom

Yes, in the Czech language the saying goes: Kam i csar chod peky.
H. Calogeridis

-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Frans Suasso
Sent: Thursday, April 3, 2008 10:56 AM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] kuda tsar' idet peshkom

The expression is German, or rather Austrian, because the Austrians had an 
Emperor long  before the Germans did.

The Expression is:

Wo selbst der Kaiser zu Fuss geht.

Some others  borrowed it. Not only the Russians,  but also the Dutch
:
Waar zelfs de keizer te voet gaat.

I( do not know about other  languages. Does anybody?

Frans Suasso, Naarden the Netherlands

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Deborah Hoffman" <lino59 at AMERITECH.NET>
To: <SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 3:35 PM
Subject: [SEELANGS] kuda tsar' idet peshkom


> This is an actual expression? And here all these years I thought Tom 
> Lehrer had made it up (in "Lobachevsky").
>
>  >Date:    Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:21:53 -0400
>>From:    "Pendergast, J. Mr DFL" <John.Pendergast at USMA.EDU>
>>Subject: Re: two fashion terms
>>
>>Apropos of the "toilet" P.S. below - and apologies if this one already
> >came up in prior discussion - but a phrase that I always liked that I
>> have heard among military colleagues (and which at least one civilian
> >colleague met with a wince) is "idu tuda, kuda tsar' idyot peshkom."
> >( ,    )
>>
>>John Pendergast
>>Assistant Professor of Russian
>>United States Military Academy
>>745 Brewerton Road
>>West Point, NY 10996
>>845-938-0310
>
>
>
> Deborah Hoffman, Esq.
> Russian > English Legal and Literary Translations
>
> A man ceases to be a beginner in any given science and becomes a master in 
> that science when he has learned that he is going to be a beginner all his 
> life. -- R. G. Collingwood
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> 

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From nsm3 at COLUMBIA.EDU  Thu Apr  3 16:52:06 2008
From: nsm3 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Nadia Michoustina)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 12:52:06 -0400
Subject: Russian Typing Software
Message-ID: <THU.3.APR.2008.125206.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

   Dear Seelangs,

   Can anyone recommend a Russian typing tutor program-- to learn  
typing on a Russian keyboard fast.

   Many thanks,
Nadia Michoustina

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From Michael_Long at BAYLOR.EDU  Thu Apr  3 16:47:28 2008
From: Michael_Long at BAYLOR.EDU (Long, Michael)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 11:47:28 -0500
Subject: kuda tsar' peshkom xodil
Message-ID: <THU.3.APR.2008.114728.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

I've always heard the expression with the unidirectional verb and with 'dazhe' added: kuda dazhe tsar' idet peshkom.


-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list on behalf of Olga Meerson
Sent: Thu 4/3/2008 10:39 AM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] kuda tsar' peshkom xodil
 
I heard it in the present. But the verb has definitely to be multidirectional, and so it was: kuda tsar' peshkom xodit. Alinushka, your version is politically updated but my experience still uncluded the present tense verb--and I am your generation, not older.
o.m.

----- Original Message -----
From: Frans Suasso <Franssuasso at HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Thursday, April 3, 2008 10:24 am
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] kuda tsar' peshkom xodil

> You are right. Sunce the revolution Russians would use the past tense.
> 
> Frans Suasso
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Alina Israeli" <aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU>
> To: <SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU>
> Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 5:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] kuda tsar' peshkom xodil
> 
> 
> The actual expression is kuda tsar' peshkom xodil: http://
> www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%
> 3Aofficial&q=%22%D0%BA%D1%83%D0%B4%D0%B0+%D1%86%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%8C+%D0%
> BF%D0%B5%D1%88%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BC%22&btnG=Search
> 
> Not that I could find anything to that effect in Tom Lehrer.
> 
> On Apr 3, 2008, at 9:35 AM, Deborah Hoffman wrote:
> 
> > This is an actual expression? And here all these years I thought  
> Tom 
> > Lehrer had made it up (in "Lobachevsky").
> >
> >> Date:    Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:21:53 -0400
> >> From:    "Pendergast, J. Mr DFL" <John.Pendergast at USMA.EDU>
> >> Subject: Re: two fashion terms
> >>
> >> Apropos of the "toilet" P.S. below - and apologies if this one  
> already>> came up in prior discussion - but a phrase that I always 
> liked that I
> >> have heard among military colleagues (and which at least one 
> civilian>> colleague met with a wince) is "idu tuda, kuda tsar' 
> idyot peshkom."
> >> (èäó òóäà, êóäà öàðü èä¸ò ïåøêîì)
> 
> 
> Alina Israeli
> LFS, American University
> 4400 Massachusetts Ave., NW
> Washington DC. 20016
> (202) 885-2387
> fax (202) 885-1076
> aisrael at american.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
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> subscription  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS 
> Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
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> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
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> subscription  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS 
> Web Interface at:
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> 

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From dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU  Thu Apr  3 15:49:52 2008
From: dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU (Edward M Dumanis)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 11:49:52 -0400
Subject: kuda tsar' idet peshkom
In-Reply-To: <418588.30615.qm@web80606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <THU.3.APR.2008.114952.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Yes, it is.
I have also heard not mentioned yet "Pojdu tuda, ne skazhu kuda."

Sincerely,

Edward Dumanis <dumanis at buffalo.edu>

On Thu, 3 Apr 2008, Deborah Hoffman wrote:

> This is an actual expression? And here all these years I thought Tom Lehrer had made it up (in "Lobachevsky").
>
>  >Date:    Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:21:53 -0400
>> From:    "Pendergast, J. Mr DFL" <John.Pendergast at USMA.EDU>
>> Subject: Re: two fashion terms
>>
>> Apropos of the "toilet" P.S. below - and apologies if this one already
> >came up in prior discussion - but a phrase that I always liked that I
>> have heard among military colleagues (and which at least one civilian
> >colleague met with a wince) is "idu tuda, kuda tsar' idyot peshkom."
> >(èäó òóäà, êóäà öàðü èä¸ò ïåøêîì)
>>
>> John Pendergast
>> Assistant Professor of Russian
>> United States Military Academy
>> 745 Brewerton Road
>> West Point, NY 10996
>> 845-938-0310
>
>
>
> Deborah Hoffman, Esq.
> Russian > English Legal and Literary Translations
>
> A man ceases to be a beginner in any given science and becomes a master in that science when he has learned that he is going to be a beginner all his life. -- R. G. Collingwood
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

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From rar at SLAVIC.UMASS.EDU  Thu Apr  3 17:19:51 2008
From: rar at SLAVIC.UMASS.EDU (Robert A. Rothstein)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 13:19:51 -0400
Subject: kuda tsar' idet peshkom
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOC.4.64.0804031148170.6659@ubunix1.acsu.buffalo.edu>
Message-ID: <THU.3.APR.2008.131951.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

The Tom Lehrer version - in his song "Lobachevsky" - was

    [...]
    I am never forget the day my first book is published.
    Every chapter I stole from somewhere else.
    Index I copy from old Vladivostok telephone directory.
    This book was sensational!
    Pravda - well, Pravda - Pravda said: Ia idu kuda sam tsar' idet peshkom.
    It stinks.
    [...]

The entire text is published in his collection "Too Many Songs by Tom 
Lehrer." In a footnote he indicates that for the quote from "Pravda" 
(and another quote from "Izvestiia") "one should insert some phrase in 
Russian (if the audience does not speak Russian) or some Russian 
double-talk (if it does). The author's own choices varied from the 
merely inappropriate to the distinctly obscene." In the printed text he 
does not provide any suggestions for the two supposed quotations. The 
version that I quoted above is what I remember from his first record, 
which came out sometime in the 1950s, a version he presumably learned 
from some Russian emigre. I haven't listened to the record recently, but 
I'm fairly certain that he used "idet" rather than "khodit " since I 
remember the iambic rhythm.

Bob Rothstein

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From kalbouss at MAC.COM  Thu Apr  3 21:05:29 2008
From: kalbouss at MAC.COM (George Kalbouss)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 16:05:29 -0500
Subject: Tom Lehrer and the Tsar (idet peshkom).
In-Reply-To: <418588.30615.qm@web80606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <THU.3.APR.2008.160529.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

You can hear Lobachevsky on You Tube-- type in: Tom Lehrer Lobachevsky,
and it is, indeed,  "idet" in the song.

	By the way,  Tom Lehrer credited Danny Kaye as one of his inspirations.
One of Kaye's funniest bits is in a monologue in the movie, "Wonderman" 
(ca. 1945),
where he says, "I'm remember the time..." several times.  In this bit, 
he pretends
he's a famous opera singer who is trying to sing "Ochi chernye" while 
trying to
stifle a sneeze.

George Kalbouss
THE Ohio State University

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From wverzhger at AOL.COM  Thu Apr  3 21:38:07 2008
From: wverzhger at AOL.COM (wverzhger at AOL.COM)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 17:38:07 -0400
Subject: language maintenance over the summer?
In-Reply-To: <47F4B439.7000504@ilos.uio.no>
Message-ID: <THU.3.APR.2008.173807.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

And the articles on BBC World News service in Russian are often of enough worldwide interest that there is a similar, although not exact article of the same story on the English page.  I've been able to build new vocabulary, as well as reinforce common words/phrases used in various specialized areas of interest (politics, military, education, etc.)  There is also lots of audio in Russian that can help with listening comprehension.

William Vernola


-----Original Message-----
From: Kjetil Rå Hauge <k.r.hauge at ILOS.UIO.NO>
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Sent: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 6:40 am
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] language maintenance over the summer?


Susan Bauckus wrote: 
> I don’t wish to discourage people from reading literary texts, but the ones 
> available to students at that level are often dreary. When I had to read 
> those, I started to suspect that Russian literature was not all it was 
> cracked up to be. A nice set of texts for students on many levels are the 
> news items on the BBC Russian service at www.bbcrussian.com. People who 
> prefer something more stately than the newspaper format of the home page 
> can choose the "bez grafiki" option, which presents the texts in a single 
> row without columns or pictures. > > While dense, the texts are blessedly short – a headline and 1-2 sentences – 
> and complete. The topics are often familiar to American students, and 
> frequently include a fair number of familiar toponyms, names of well-known 
> figures, cognates, and frequently occurring vocabulary that are all likely 
> to help people along. I've never found any reading material that my 
> beginning students like as much as these, and they get a sense of 
> accomplishment from finishing them. Students can look up words by pasting 
> them into www.rambler.ru/dict, which will identify verbs in any form and 
> nouns in any case.  
Instead of looking up words one by one, you can access BBC Russian news (and other pages) through a Gymnazilla server: <http://dev.eurac.edu:8080/cgi-bin/gymnazilla/start.pl> 
... and get a page with pop-up translations into English. 
 
-- --- 
Kjetil Rå Hauge, U. of Oslo, PO Box 1003 Blindern, N-0315 Oslo, Norway 
Tel. +47/22856710, fax +47/22854140 
 
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From wverzhger at AOL.COM  Thu Apr  3 21:48:27 2008
From: wverzhger at AOL.COM (wverzhger at AOL.COM)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 17:48:27 -0400
Subject: language maintenance over the summer?
In-Reply-To: <66CB3186-5401-4EF1-B0AD-0AB9A491439E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <THU.3.APR.2008.174827.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

It's a good idea.? Most European countries with a high level of proficient English speakers subtitle the programs originally in English.? (Scandinavian countries, The Netherlands, and I think the Flemish speaking part of Belgium).? I actually learned some Swedish this way by watching "Dallas" in Sweden. The others in Europe stick to dubbing - cheaper, but much less effective for the reinforcement?of comprehending a fast and maybe even difficult audio passage.?

There are also some dual page books out there (one side English, the other Russian).? You can find them at most decent bookstores or order on line through Amazon.com or some other place.?

William Vernola

-----Original Message-----
From: Emily Saunders <emilka at MAC.COM>
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Sent: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 2:16 am
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] language maintenance over the summer?


The best method I've found for language maintenance is to pick activities that are language-related and that are entertaining in and of themselves.?
?
1) Music is one of the main things that comes to mind. I'd advise students to get ahold of cds or downloaded copies of Russian groups that match their musical tastes. And if they're not sure what those are, listen to some Russian radio online. There are many stations, but my husband and I regularly stream http//:www.radiovbc.ru which is a pop station out of Vladivostok. There is no way that 1st year students will understand all of the between songs commentary, but as a background to have around it'll keep them listening to the music and intonation of the language and here and there they'll pick up a few words they recognize. Kino is a bit dated, but is one of the easier Russian rock groups for beginning students to understand the lyrics of -- Tsoi tends to sing at a measured pace with long-ish gaps between words.?
?
2) Movies are another -- and I have personally found that watching a movie WITH subtitles does much to improve ones comprehension of the target language. Since we typically read a bit faster than actors pronounce their lines, you get the advantage of anticipation of what is going to be said and so the brain can occasionally fill in the gap with an aha! that's what they said. I got that word! A very satisfying feeling. Also Ironia Sud'by is available on Netflix and is one of the easier movies to understand for beginning students. I figure I got about a third of it when I was a beginning 2nd year student. Plus it's just a classic!?
?
3) Read Russian translations of English language books that you already know or are reasonably familiar with. Some of the first books I read from cover to cover in Russian were Agatha Christie novels. Because they were translations the syntax tended to mirror the original English which made for easier reading, and because they were mysteries, I wanted to get to the end and find out whodunit. Also once when I was traveling in Bulgaria, I left my one and only piece of English reading material on a train. I searched around, but failed to locate a market with foreign literature, but desperately wanted something to read. I do not speak Bulgarian, but I found a copy of one of my favorite books (from childhood, actually) - Anne of Green Gables in Bulgarian. Because I knew the contents of the book so well already, I was able to make sense of a lot of the Bulgarian with the help of my knowledge of Russian plus a pocket dictionary. The point being that translations may seem like not real reading, but they can provide a certain degree of effective practice in the target language.?
?
My two (three?) cents, for what they're worth!?
?
Regards,?
?
Emily Saunders?
?
On Apr 2, 2008, at 8:24 AM, Anne Fisher wrote:?
?
> Dear Seelangers,?
>?
> My first-year Russian students are already asking how they can > maintain their language over the summer. I'd like to suggest > something for them to read, but obviously they will need texts > specially prepared for beginning students of a foreign language.?
>?
> I'd like to find material with an accompanying glossary, or material > that is extremely simple, so that students don't have to work > intensively with their own dictionaries. Does anyone have any > suggestions??
>?
> Thank you,?
>?
> Annie?
>?
> ____________________?
>?
> "Reading is inescapably a social act."?
> - From John Clifford's introduction to a collection of articles on > Louise Rosenblatt's seminal Literature as Exploration.?
> ____________________?
>?
> Anne O. Fisher?
> Visiting Assistant Professor of Russian?
> Williams College?
> Department of German and Russian?
> 995 Main Street, Weston Hall?
> Williamstown, MA 01267?
> anne.fisher AT williams.edu?
> office: 413.597.4723?
> fax: 413.597.3028?
> _____________________?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------?
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> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:?
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From franssuasso at HOTMAIL.COM  Sat Apr  5 22:38:58 2008
From: franssuasso at HOTMAIL.COM (Frans Suasso)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 00:38:58 +0200
Subject: language maintenance over the summer?
Message-ID: <SUN.6.APR.2008.003858.0200.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

 The explanation is slightly different.Dubbing is far more expensive then 
subtitling (easily 10/20 times as expensive, depending on the number of 
actors you need)   Therefore small countries like Holland and the flemish 
speaking part of Belgium with relative small audiences opt for subtitling
Apart from that we would not have enough actors to get the required variety 
in voices.

Many countries in Europe do give subtitles for the deaf via teletext or a 
similar system, in most countries  on page 888.

Frans Suasso, Naarden the Netherlands
former director of programmes of Radio Netherlands

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <wverzhger at AOL.COM>
To: <SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:48 PM
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] language maintenance over the summer?


> It's a good idea.? Most European countries with a high level of proficient 
> English speakers subtitle the programs originally in English.? 
> (Scandinavian countries, The Netherlands, and I think the Flemish speaking 
> part of Belgium).? I actually learned some Swedish this way by watching 
> "Dallas" in Sweden. The others in Europe stick to dubbing - cheaper, but 
> much less effective for the reinforcement?of comprehending a fast and 
> maybe even difficult audio passage.?
>
> There are also some dual page books out there (one side English, the other 
> Russian).? You can find them at most decent bookstores or order on line 
> through Amazon.com or some other place.?
>
> William Vernola
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Emily Saunders <emilka at MAC.COM>
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Sent: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 2:16 am
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] language maintenance over the summer?
>
>
> The best method I've found for language maintenance is to pick activities 
> that are language-related and that are entertaining in and of themselves.?
> ?
> 1) Music is one of the main things that comes to mind. I'd advise students 
> to get ahold of cds or downloaded copies of Russian groups that match 
> their musical tastes. And if they're not sure what those are, listen to 
> some Russian radio online. There are many stations, but my husband and I 
> regularly stream http//:www.radiovbc.ru which is a pop station out of 
> Vladivostok. There is no way that 1st year students will understand all of 
> the between songs commentary, but as a background to have around it'll 
> keep them listening to the music and intonation of the language and here 
> and there they'll pick up a few words they recognize. Kino is a bit dated, 
> but is one of the easier Russian rock groups for beginning students to 
> understand the lyrics of -- Tsoi tends to sing at a measured pace with 
> long-ish gaps between words.?
> ?
> 2) Movies are another -- and I have personally found that watching a movie 
> WITH subtitles does much to improve ones comprehension of the target 
> language. Since we typically read a bit faster than actors pronounce their 
> lines, you get the advantage of anticipation of what is going to be said 
> and so the brain can occasionally fill in the gap with an aha! that's what 
> they said. I got that word! A very satisfying feeling. Also Ironia Sud'by 
> is available on Netflix and is one of the easier movies to understand for 
> beginning students. I figure I got about a third of it when I was a 
> beginning 2nd year student. Plus it's just a classic!?
> ?
> 3) Read Russian translations of English language books that you already 
> know or are reasonably familiar with. Some of the first books I read from 
> cover to cover in Russian were Agatha Christie novels. Because they were 
> translations the syntax tended to mirror the original English which made 
> for easier reading, and because they were mysteries, I wanted to get to 
> the end and find out whodunit. Also once when I was traveling in Bulgaria, 
> I left my one and only piece of English reading material on a train. I 
> searched around, but failed to locate a market with foreign literature, 
> but desperately wanted something to read. I do not speak Bulgarian, but I 
> found a copy of one of my favorite books (from childhood, actually) - Anne 
> of Green Gables in Bulgarian. Because I knew the contents of the book so 
> well already, I was able to make sense of a lot of the Bulgarian with the 
> help of my knowledge of Russian plus a pocket dictionary. The point being 
> that translations may seem like not real reading, but they can provide a 
> certain degree of effective practice in the target language.?
> ?
> My two (three?) cents, for what they're worth!?
> ?
> Regards,?
> ?
> Emily Saunders?
> ?
> On Apr 2, 2008, at 8:24 AM, Anne Fisher wrote:?
> ?
>> Dear Seelangers,?
>>?
>> My first-year Russian students are already asking how they can > maintain 
>> their language over the summer. I'd like to suggest > something for them 
>> to read, but obviously they will need texts > specially prepared for 
>> beginning students of a foreign language.?
>>?
>> I'd like to find material with an accompanying glossary, or material > 
>> that is extremely simple, so that students don't have to work > 
>> intensively with their own dictionaries. Does anyone have any > 
>> suggestions??
>>?
>> Thank you,?
>>?
>> Annie?
>>?
>> ____________________?
>>?
>> "Reading is inescapably a social act."?
>> - From John Clifford's introduction to a collection of articles on > 
>> Louise Rosenblatt's seminal Literature as Exploration.?
>> ____________________?
>>?
>> Anne O. Fisher?
>> Visiting Assistant Professor of Russian?
>> Williams College?
>> Department of German and Russian?
>> 995 Main Street, Weston Hall?
>> Williamstown, MA 01267?
>> anne.fisher AT williams.edu?
>> office: 413.597.4723?
>> fax: 413.597.3028?
>> _____________________?
>>?
>>?
>>?
>>?
>>?
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------?
>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription?
>> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:?
>> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/?
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------?
>>?
> ?
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------?
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription?
> ?options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:?
> ? http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/?
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------?
> ?
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From kalbouss at MAC.COM  Fri Apr  4 00:09:03 2008
From: kalbouss at MAC.COM (George Kalbouss)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 19:09:03 -0500
Subject: language maintenance over the summer?
In-Reply-To: <BAY142-DAV9712CF5627436CA05FE72AFF70@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <THU.3.APR.2008.190903.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

	Regarding dubbing,  in 1971, I was living with my family in Finland; 
the Finns
subtitle rather than dub.  I took my family (daughters 4 and 6) to see a
Charlie Brown movie,  I don't remember the title, but the plot was all 
about
Charlie Brown entering a spelling bee.  My family did fine,  but I have 
no idea
of how crazy the subtitlers became trying to find Finnish equivalents 
to the words that
Charlie was supposed to spell, or worse, misspell.  A saving grace was 
that most Finns in the
audience knew English anyway!

George Kalbouss
The Ohio State University
On Apr 5, 2008, at 5:38 PM, Frans Suasso wrote:

> The explanation is slightly different.Dubbing is far more expensive 
> then subtitling (easily 10/20 times as expensive, depending on the 
> number of actors you need)   Therefore small countries like Holland 
> and the flemish speaking part of Belgium with relative small audiences 
> opt for subtitling
> Apart from that we would not have enough actors to get the required 
> variety in voices.
>
> Many countries in Europe do give subtitles for the deaf via teletext 
> or a similar system, in most countries  on page 888.
>
> Frans Suasso, Naarden the Netherlands
> former director of programmes of Radio Netherlands
>

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From ajda.kljun at GMAIL.COM  Thu Apr  3 23:15:44 2008
From: ajda.kljun at GMAIL.COM (Ajda Kljun)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 01:15:44 +0200
Subject: kuda tsar' idet peshkom
In-Reply-To: <47F511B7.4020600@slavic.umass.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.4.APR.2008.011544.0200.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Also in Slovene: "iti tja, kamor gre še cesar peš". Regards,

Ajda.

2008/4/3, Robert A. Rothstein <rar at slavic.umass.edu>:
>
> The Tom Lehrer version - in his song "Lobachevsky" - was
>
>   [...]
>   I am never forget the day my first book is published.
>   Every chapter I stole from somewhere else.
>   Index I copy from old Vladivostok telephone directory.
>   This book was sensational!
>   Pravda - well, Pravda - Pravda said: Ia idu kuda sam tsar' idet peshkom.
>   It stinks.
>   [...]
>
> The entire text is published in his collection "Too Many Songs by Tom
> Lehrer." In a footnote he indicates that for the quote from "Pravda" (and
> another quote from "Izvestiia") "one should insert some phrase in Russian
> (if the audience does not speak Russian) or some Russian double-talk (if it
> does). The author's own choices varied from the merely inappropriate to the
> distinctly obscene." In the printed text he does not provide any suggestions
> for the two supposed quotations. The version that I quoted above is what I
> remember from his first record, which came out sometime in the 1950s, a
> version he presumably learned from some Russian emigre. I haven't listened
> to the record recently, but I'm fairly certain that he used "idet" rather
> than "khodit " since I remember the iambic rhythm.
>
> Bob Rothstein
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                   http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

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From ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET  Thu Apr  3 23:44:24 2008
From: ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET (ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 16:44:24 -0700
Subject: kuda tsar' peshkom xodil
In-Reply-To: <95C5DB8A7E9D2442AC8B014C5577A06201DDF38A@FS-EXCHANGE2.bayl
 or.edu>
Message-ID: <THU.3.APR.2008.164424.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

At 09:47 AM 4/3/2008, you wrote:
>I've always heard the expression with the unidirectional verb and 
>with 'dazhe' added: kuda dazhe tsar' idet peshkom.
>....
>I heard it in the present. But the verb has definitely to be 
>multidirectional, and so it was: kuda tsar' peshkom xodit. 
>Alinushka, your version is politically updated but my experience 
>still uncluded the present tense verb--and I am your generation, not older.
>o.m.


I also heard it unidirectionally.  Maybe that's wrong, but there is a 
precedent:  birds migrate unidirectionally, not round-trip.
If I ponder long enough, I probably could come up with a 
cognitive/conceptual explanation that would unify the tsar to the 
crapper (not obscene!  Invented by Mr. Crapper!) and cranes to the 
south.  But too old...  too tired...
Jules Levin
Los Angeles

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From wverzhger at AOL.COM  Fri Apr  4 00:53:49 2008
From: wverzhger at AOL.COM (wverzhger at AOL.COM)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 20:53:49 -0400
Subject: language maintenance over the summer?
In-Reply-To: <BAY142-DAV9712CF5627436CA05FE72AFF70@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <THU.3.APR.2008.205349.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

What about the dubbing done in Russia during the 90s and most of the early 2000s?? It was that one guy with the notoriously monotone, unemotional voice that I was really refering? to, since the original topic was really about Russian.? I agree about the expense of dubbing with mulitple voices.? It just wasn't that way earlier in Russia.? Things are probably changing - I haven't been there in 5+ years.? I have been to Moldova and Kazakhstan not too long ago and the notorious one voice (male) is?still dubbing?all of the lines.?


-----Original Message-----
From: Frans Suasso <franssuasso at HOTMAIL.COM>
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Sent: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 6:38 pm
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] language maintenance over the summer?


The explanation is slightly different.Dubbing is far more expensive then subtitling (easily 10/20 times as expensive, depending on the number of actors you need) Therefore small countries like Holland and the flemish speaking part of Belgium with relative small audiences opt for subtitling?
Apart from that we would not have enough actors to get the required variety in voices.?
?
Many countries in Europe do give subtitles for the deaf via teletext or a similar system, in most countries on page 888.?
?
Frans Suasso, Naarden the Netherlands?
former director of programmes of Radio Netherlands?
?
----- Original Message ----- From: <wverzhger at AOL.COM>?
To: <SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU>?
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:48 PM?
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] language maintenance over the summer??
?
> It's a good idea.? Most European countries with a high level of proficient > English speakers subtitle the programs originally in English.? > (Scandinavian countries, The Netherlands, and I think the Flemish speaking > part of Belgium).? I actually learned some Swedish this way by watching > "Dallas" in Sweden. The others in Europe stick to dubbing - cheaper, but > much less effective for the reinforcement?of comprehending a fast and > maybe even difficult audio passage.??
>?
> There are also some dual page books out there (one side English, the other > Russian).? You can find them at most decent bookstores or order on line > through Amazon.com or some other place.??
>?
> William Vernola?
>?
> -----Original Message-----?
> From: Emily Saunders <emilka at MAC.COM>?
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU?
> Sent: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 2:16 am?
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] language maintenance over the summer??
>?
>?
> The best method I've found for language maintenance is to pick activities > that are language-related and that are entertaining in and of themselves.??
> ??
> 1) Music is one of the main things that comes to mind. I'd advise students > to get ahold of cds or downloaded copies of Russian groups that match > their musical tastes. And if they're not sure what those are, listen to > some Russian radio online. There are many stations, but my husband and I > regularly stream http//:www.radiovbc.ru which is a pop station out of > Vladivostok. There is no way that 1st year students will understand all of > the between songs commentary, but as a background to have around it'll > keep them listening to the music and intonation of the language and here > and there they'll pick up a few words they recognize. Kino is a bit dated, > but is one of the easier Russian rock groups for beginning students to > understand the lyrics of -- Tsoi tends to sing at a measured pace with > long-ish gaps between words.??
> ??
> 2) Movies are another -- and I have personally found that watching a movie > WITH subtitles does much to improve ones comprehension of the target > language. Since we typically read a bit faster than actors pronounce their > lines, you get the advantage of anticipation of what is going to be said > and so the brain can occasionally fill in the gap with an aha! that's what > they said. I got that word! A very satisfying feeling. Also Ironia Sud'by > is available on Netflix and is one of the easier movies to understand for > beginning students. I figure I got about a third of it when I was a > beginning 2nd year student. Plus it's just a classic!??
> ??
> 3) Read Russian translations of English language books that you already > know or are reasonably familiar with. Some of the first books I read from > cover to cover in Russian were Agatha Christie novels. Because they were > translations the syntax tended to mirror the original English which made > for easier reading, and because they were mysteries, I wanted to get to > the end and find out whodunit. Also once when I was traveling in Bulgaria, > I left my one and only piece of English reading material on a train. I > searched around, but failed to locate a market with foreign literature, > but desperately wanted something to read. I do not speak Bulgarian, but I > found a copy of one of my favorite books (from childhood, actually) - Anne > of Green Gables in Bulgarian. Because I knew the contents of the book so > well already, I was able to make sense of a lot of the Bulgarian with the > help of my knowledge of Russian plus a pocket dictionary. The point being > that translations may seem like not real reading, but they can provide a > certain degree of effective practice in the target language.??
> ??
> My two (three?) cents, for what they're worth!??
> ??
> Regards,??
> ??
> Emily Saunders??
> ??
> On Apr 2, 2008, at 8:24 AM, Anne Fisher wrote:??
> ??
>> Dear Seelangers,??
>>??
>> My first-year Russian students are already asking how they can > maintain >> their language over the summer. I'd like to suggest > something for them >> to read, but obviously they will need texts > specially prepared for >> beginning students of a foreign language.??
>>??
>> I'd like to find material with an accompanying glossary, or material > >> that is extremely simple, so that students don't have to work > >> intensively with their own dictionaries. Does anyone have any > >> suggestions???
>>??
>> Thank you,??
>>??
>> Annie??
>>??
>> ____________________??
>>??
>> "Reading is inescapably a social act."??
>> - From John Clifford's introduction to a collection of articles on > >> Louise Rosenblatt's seminal Literature as Exploration.??
>> ____________________??
>>??
>> Anne O. Fisher??
>> Visiting Assistant Professor of Russian??
>> Williams College??
>> Department of German and Russian??
>> 995 Main Street, Weston Hall??
>> Williamstown, MA 01267??
>> anne.fisher AT williams.edu??
>> office: 413.597.4723??
>> fax: 413.597.3028??
>> _____________________??
>>??
>>??
>>??
>>??
>>??
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------??
>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription??
>> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:??
>> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/??
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------??
>>??
> ??
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------??
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription??
> ?options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:??
> ? http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/??
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------??
> ??
>?
>?
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------?
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription?
> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:?
> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/?
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------?
>?
> ?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------?
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?options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:?
? http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/?
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From nflrc at HAWAII.EDU  Fri Apr  4 01:16:33 2008
From: nflrc at HAWAII.EDU (National Foreign Language Resource Center)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 15:16:33 -1000
Subject: FINAL REMINDER: 2008 SLRF Conference Call for Proposals deadline
 April 15
Message-ID: <THU.3.APR.2008.151633.1000.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Our apologies for any cross-postings . . .

The SLRF 2008 Call for Proposals deadline (April 15) is fast approaching.
Submit your proposal online today!

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

The Department of Second Language Studies at the University of Hawaii at
Manoa is pleased to announce. . .

CALL FOR PROPOSALS:

31st Annual Second Language Research Forum (SLRF)
October 17-19, 2008
University of Hawaii at Manoa
Honolulu, Hawaii
http://nflrc.hawaii.edu/slrf08/

ONLINE PROPOSAL SUBMISSION SYSTEM OPEN! (See Call for Proposals
section for complete details and instructions for proposal submissions)

PROPOSAL SUBMISSION DEADLINE: April 15, 2008
Notification of selection: Mid-May 2008

Theme:  EXPLORING SLA: PERSPECTIVES, POSITIONS, AND PRACTICES

Plenary speakers:
- Dr. Harald Clahsen (University of Essex)
- Dr. Alan Firth (Newcastle University)
- Dr. Eva Lam (Northwestern University)
- Dr. Richard Schmidt (University of Hawai'i at Manoa)


We welcome all areas of second language research, including, but not
limited to:
- Instructed SLA
- Acquisition of grammar and phonology
- Child SLA
- L2 Processing
- Language and learner characteristics
- Language and cognition
- Discourse and interaction
- Language and socialization
- Bilingualism and multilingualism
- Language and ideology
- Literacy development
- Learner corpora
- Language learning and technology
- Second language measurement


1) PAPERS:
Individual papers will be allotted 20 minutes (plus 10 minutes for
discussion).

2) POSTERS:
Posters will be displayed for a full day.  Posters are intended for
one-on-one discussion or reports of work in progress.

3) COLLOQIUA:
The colloquia/panels consist of individual paper presentations that relate
to a specific or related topics of interest.  They are offered in 2-hour
sessions.


Please see our website for complete proposal submission instructions and
additional updates:  http://nflrc.hawaii.edu/slrf08/.

Deadline for submissions is April 15, 2008.

For any proposal submission questions, please contact the SLRF 2008
Program Chairs at slrf2008program at gmail.com.


*************************************************************************
  N           National Foreign Language Resource Center
   F          University of Hawai'i
    L         1859 East-West Road, #106
     R        Honolulu HI 96822
      C       voice: (808) 956-9424, fax: (808) 956-5983
              email: nflrc at hawaii.edu
VISIT OUR WEBSITE!   http://www.nflrc.hawaii.edu
*************************************************************************

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From donna.seifer at COMCAST.NET  Fri Apr  4 01:23:26 2008
From: donna.seifer at COMCAST.NET (Donna Seifer)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 18:23:26 -0700
Subject: kuda tsar' idet peshkom
In-Reply-To: <7537E9E84ADB7043907093855059B2650FAEE8A8@USMASVGDOIM214.usma.ds.army.edu>
Message-ID: <THU.3.APR.2008.182326.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

DEAR SEELANGERS:
In memory of my Belarussian-born grandfather, Mitrofan Adamovich Tyrkich,
and my New Jersey-born father, Nikolai Mitrofanovich Tyrkich, I wish to
affirm that as a child growing up in the USA in the 1950s, I often heard
"idu tuda, kuda tsar' khodit peshkom." Вот и всё.

Donna (from grandmother Domna Petrovna)
Turkish (Americanization of Tyrkich)
Seifer (from first marriage, and from the Hebrew "sefer" for "book"

Donna Turkish Seifer, M.A.
Portland, OR  97219
donnada at mac.com
donna.seifer at comcast.net







On 4/3/08 6:42 AM, "Pendergast, J. Mr DFL" <John.Pendergast at USMA.EDU> wrote:

> Certainly, though as Donna Seifer correctly pointed out, it should be KHODIT,
> since the Tsar would presumably make this trip quite regularly.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Deborah Hoffman
> Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 9:36 AM
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: [SEELANGS] kuda tsar' idet peshkom
> 
> This is an actual expression? And here all these years I thought Tom Lehrer
> had made it up (in "Lobachevsky").
>    
>> Date:    Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:21:53 -0400
>> From:    "Pendergast, J. Mr DFL" <John.Pendergast at USMA.EDU>
>> Subject: Re: two fashion terms
>> 
>> Apropos of the "toilet" P.S. below - and apologies if this one already
>> came up in prior discussion - but a phrase that I always liked that I
>> have heard among military colleagues (and which at least one civilian
>> colleague met with a wince) is "idu tuda, kuda tsar' idyot peshkom."
>> (èäó òóäà, êóäà öàðü èä¸ò ïåøêîì)
>> 
>> John Pendergast
>> Assistant Professor of Russian
>> United States Military Academy
>> 745 Brewerton Road
>> West Point, NY 10996
>> 845-938-0310
> 
> 
> 
> Deborah Hoffman, Esq.
> Russian > English Legal and Literary Translations
> 
> A man ceases to be a beginner in any given science and becomes a master in
> that science when he has learned that he is going to be a beginner all his
> life. -- R. G. Collingwood
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From jwilson at SRAS.ORG  Fri Apr  4 06:18:32 2008
From: jwilson at SRAS.ORG (Josh Wilson)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 10:18:32 +0400
Subject: language maintenance over the summer?
In-Reply-To: <8CA64057AAFAD68-1480-30F1@MBLK-M37.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.4.APR.2008.101832.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

A lot of the dubbing for TV still has one uninspired voice doing the
dubbing. A lot of them will go a bit further and have one male voice and one
female voice - both uninspired. Some of the best dubbing on tv is actually
on 2x2, the Russian cartoon channel - which makes fairly careful note of
voice quality and style and tries to imitate it closely as well as providing
appropriate emotion.

Films are getting better about using multiple actors - who actually act.
Many big name films dubbed for theatrical release even pull in big name
stars to the dubbing - and bill them as the dubbers in marketing materials. 

In all, while this less annoying - I still find dubbing in general to be
itself annoying. I would much rather see and hear the original actors and
have to read the lines in English than have to listen to dubbed voices that
don't match the lips. It's much more educational that way as well. 



Josh Wilson
Asst. Director
The School of Russian and Asian Studies
Editor-in-Chief
Vestnik, The Journal of Russian and Asian Studies
www.sras.org
jwilson at sras.org

-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
[mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of wverzhger at AOL.COM
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 4:54 AM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] language maintenance over the summer?

What about the dubbing done in Russia during the 90s and most of the early
2000s?? It was that one guy with the notoriously monotone, unemotional voice
that I was really refering? to, since the original topic was really about
Russian.? I agree about the expense of dubbing with mulitple voices.? It
just wasn't that way earlier in Russia.? Things are probably changing - I
haven't been there in 5+ years.? I have been to Moldova and Kazakhstan not
too long ago and the notorious one voice (male) is?still dubbing?all of the
lines.?


-----Original Message-----
From: Frans Suasso <franssuasso at HOTMAIL.COM>
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Sent: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 6:38 pm
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] language maintenance over the summer?


The explanation is slightly different.Dubbing is far more expensive then
subtitling (easily 10/20 times as expensive, depending on the number of
actors you need) Therefore small countries like Holland and the flemish
speaking part of Belgium with relative small audiences opt for subtitling?
Apart from that we would not have enough actors to get the required variety
in voices.?
?
Many countries in Europe do give subtitles for the deaf via teletext or a
similar system, in most countries on page 888.?
?
Frans Suasso, Naarden the Netherlands?
former director of programmes of Radio Netherlands?
?
----- Original Message ----- From: <wverzhger at AOL.COM>?
To: <SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU>?
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:48 PM?
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] language maintenance over the summer??
?
> It's a good idea.? Most European countries with a high level of proficient
> English speakers subtitle the programs originally in English.? >
(Scandinavian countries, The Netherlands, and I think the Flemish speaking >
part of Belgium).? I actually learned some Swedish this way by watching >
"Dallas" in Sweden. The others in Europe stick to dubbing - cheaper, but >
much less effective for the reinforcement?of comprehending a fast and >
maybe even difficult audio passage.??
>?
> There are also some dual page books out there (one side English, the other
> Russian).? You can find them at most decent bookstores or order on line >
through Amazon.com or some other place.??
>?
> William Vernola?
>?
> -----Original Message-----?
> From: Emily Saunders <emilka at MAC.COM>?
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU?
> Sent: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 2:16 am?
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] language maintenance over the summer??
>?
>?
> The best method I've found for language maintenance is to pick activities
> that are language-related and that are entertaining in and of
themselves.??
> ??
> 1) Music is one of the main things that comes to mind. I'd advise students
> to get ahold of cds or downloaded copies of Russian groups that match >
their musical tastes. And if they're not sure what those are, listen to >
some Russian radio online. There are many stations, but my husband and I >
regularly stream http//:www.radiovbc.ru which is a pop station out of >
Vladivostok. There is no way that 1st year students will understand all of >
the between songs commentary, but as a background to have around it'll >
keep them listening to the music and intonation of the language and here >
and there they'll pick up a few words they recognize. Kino is a bit dated, >
but is one of the easier Russian rock groups for beginning students to >
understand the lyrics of -- Tsoi tends to sing at a measured pace with >
long-ish gaps between words.??
> ??
> 2) Movies are another -- and I have personally found that watching a movie
> WITH subtitles does much to improve ones comprehension of the target >
language. Since we typically read a bit faster than actors pronounce their >
lines, you get the advantage of anticipation of what is going to be said >
and so the brain can occasionally fill in the gap with an aha! that's what >
they said. I got that word! A very satisfying feeling. Also Ironia Sud'by >
is available on Netflix and is one of the easier movies to understand for >
beginning students. I figure I got about a third of it when I was a >
beginning 2nd year student. Plus it's just a classic!??
> ??
> 3) Read Russian translations of English language books that you already >
know or are reasonably familiar with. Some of the first books I read from >
cover to cover in Russian were Agatha Christie novels. Because they were >
translations the syntax tended to mirror the original English which made >
for easier reading, and because they were mysteries, I wanted to get to >
the end and find out whodunit. Also once when I was traveling in Bulgaria, >
I left my one and only piece of English reading material on a train. I >
searched around, but failed to locate a market with foreign literature, >
but desperately wanted something to read. I do not speak Bulgarian, but I >
found a copy of one of my favorite books (from childhood, actually) - Anne >
of Green Gables in Bulgarian. Because I knew the contents of the book so >
well already, I was able to make sense of a lot of the Bulgarian with the >
help of my knowledge of Russian plus a pocket dictionary. The point being >
that translations may seem like not real reading, but they can provide a >
certain degree of effective practice in the target language.??
> ??
> My two (three?) cents, for what they're worth!??
> ??
> Regards,??
> ??
> Emily Saunders??
> ??
> On Apr 2, 2008, at 8:24 AM, Anne Fisher wrote:??
> ??
>> Dear Seelangers,??
>>??
>> My first-year Russian students are already asking how they can > maintain
>> their language over the summer. I'd like to suggest > something for them
>> to read, but obviously they will need texts > specially prepared for >>
beginning students of a foreign language.??
>>??
>> I'd like to find material with an accompanying glossary, or material > >>
that is extremely simple, so that students don't have to work > >>
intensively with their own dictionaries. Does anyone have any > >>
suggestions???
>>??
>> Thank you,??
>>??
>> Annie??
>>??
>> ____________________??
>>??
>> "Reading is inescapably a social act."??
>> - From John Clifford's introduction to a collection of articles on > >>
Louise Rosenblatt's seminal Literature as Exploration.??
>> ____________________??
>>??
>> Anne O. Fisher??
>> Visiting Assistant Professor of Russian??
>> Williams College??
>> Department of German and Russian??
>> 995 Main Street, Weston Hall??
>> Williamstown, MA 01267??
>> anne.fisher AT williams.edu??
>> office: 413.597.4723??
>> fax: 413.597.3028??
>> _____________________??
>>??
>>??
>>??
>>??
>>??
>>
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>> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:??
>> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/??
>>
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>>??
> ??
>
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> ??
>?
>?
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> ?
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?options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:?
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From john at RUSLAN.CO.UK  Fri Apr  4 09:41:30 2008
From: john at RUSLAN.CO.UK (John Langran)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 10:41:30 +0100
Subject: RUSLAN 1 PROOF READERS NEEDED
Message-ID: <FRI.4.APR.2008.104130.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

COULD YOU PROOF READ A LESSON OF RUSLAN 1 ?

I have now more or less finished work on the basic content of Ruslan 1 for 
the US, and have done what I can to americanise/ze the English. I now need 
to get the book proofed and because this is being done on zero budget I am 
asking for volunteers, particularly from teachers who may already be using 
the course in its English edition, and also from others who are interested, 
to proof read one or more lessons of the book in the next 3 weeks. The task 
would be to check for English English that still needs translating to 
American English. If you spot any typos in the Russian in the process, that 
would be a bonus, but most of the Russian has been pasted direct from the 
old UK editions and is therefore already OK.

I would send you your lesson/s as a pdf file.
Participants will of course receive a copy of the book on publication.
Thanks to anyone who has the time to help.

Please reply off list to john at ruslan.co.uk

John Langran
www.ruslan.co.uk

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From john at RUSLAN.CO.UK  Fri Apr  4 09:27:32 2008
From: john at RUSLAN.CO.UK (John Langran)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 10:27:32 +0100
Subject: Songs and Games - Thanks
Message-ID: <FRI.4.APR.2008.102732.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Thanks to those who responded on this topic both on and off list, and to a 
couple of people who responded off list in favour of my "Does your a... fit 
you" which I had thought was a dead duck.

Responses were 100% in favour of keeping the language games, and split on 
the songs. I shall definitely include the original Russian texts of the 
songs as an additional reference, as requested. Good idea, thanks.

John Langran
www.ruslan.co.uk 

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From pstock at BRANDEIS.EDU  Fri Apr  4 12:22:32 2008
From: pstock at BRANDEIS.EDU (David Powelstock)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 08:22:32 -0400
Subject: News item: AP Language, Computer Courses Cut - washingtonpost.com
Message-ID: <FRI.4.APR.2008.082232.0400.>

SEELANGers,

This may be of interest. Among the AP exams to be cut is Italian language. Can anyone speak to the status of the Russian AP prototype. Is it moving forward? Have these cuts at the College Board threatened it?

*****

The College Board told U.S. teachers in an e-mail yesterday that four underenrolled Advanced Placement courses will be eliminated after the 2008-09 academic year in the first significant retrenchment of the college preparatory program in its 53-year history.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/03/AR2008040303925.html?sub=AR

*****

Cheers,
David Powelstock

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From kmfplatt at SAS.UPENN.EDU  Fri Apr  4 12:29:47 2008
From: kmfplatt at SAS.UPENN.EDU (Kevin M. F. Platt)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 08:29:47 -0400
Subject: Possible Plagiarism
In-Reply-To: <SEELANGS%200804031638196068.1AA7@BAMA.UA.EDU>
Message-ID: <FRI.4.APR.2008.082947.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear SEELANGers:

One of my students turned this piece of writing in for a weekly  
reading response question about Gorky's "26 men and a girl" (I asked  
them what they thought the significance of Tanya is in the story). I  
am 95% certain that it is plagiarized, but I can't figure out from  
where. Does anyone recognize it as their own or as something on their  
shelves? Let me know off line, please.

This short story, published in 1899 in a collection entitled,  
“Creatures that Once Were Men,” is an unflinching look at the manner  
in which men react to a crushing, stifling regime and how their  
humanity is essentially dissolved over time. Tanya plays the role of  
innocence, of hope, and of the possibility of redemption for the  
twenty-six men in this narrative. Though “dull beasts,” the twenty- 
six are “still men, and, like all men, could not live without  
worshipping something or other.” Living in a situation that offered  
no returns for their labor, Tanya was something they could possess: “… 
we all regarded her as something of our own, something existing as it  
were only by virtue of our kringels.” She carries the burden of  
unrequited love without the knowledge or responsibility, a love so  
deep it could just as easily crush its receiver as its giver.
The capitalistic exploitation in this story appears to extend forever  
– the prisoners appear to be eternally trapped in a static state,  
where nothing changes around them. Their humanity is kept intact by  
Tanya’s fleeting presence, the hope she represents flitting in and  
out of their lives, only taking, never giving. At the end of Gorky’s  
tale, Tanya is revealed to be nothing more than a servant to the gold- 
embroiderers’ next door, the innocence she represents extinguished in  
a moment of sexual passion. The men return to their state of  
perpetual labor as Tanya is thrown aside, crushed by their desire for  
an ideal.



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From padunov at PITT.EDU  Fri Apr  4 14:05:01 2008
From: padunov at PITT.EDU (Padunov, Vladimir)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 10:05:01 -0400
Subject: KinoKultura 20 (April 2008)
Message-ID: <FRI.4.APR.2008.100501.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

The April issue of KinoKultura (20) is now available on line:
http://www.kinokultura.com/2008/issue20.shtml

Articles
Tom Birchenough: The Koktebel Studio
Dar'ia Borisova: The Forum of National Cinematographies Played at Being a Film School
Barbara Wurm: The International Film Festival Rotterdam - A Festival of Significance for Russian Cinema; In Focus: Svetlana Proskurina
Birgit Beumers: Returning to the Roots: Central Asia in Rottterdam

Interview
Inna Smailova: Interview with Abai Kulbai: The Keeper of Eternal Values in Cinema

Film Reviews
Julie Christensen on Aleko Tsabadze's Russian Triangle (Georgia, 2007)
Robert (Chip) Crane on Anna Melikian's Mermaid (2007)
Emma Helena Čulík on Tamás Tóth and Aleksandr Bashirov's Wolf (2006)
Marko Dumančić on Ivan Solovov's Father (2005)
Olga Klimova on Marina Liubakova's Cruelty (2007)
Mark Lipovetsky on Slava Ross' A Dumb, Fat Hare (2007)
Alexander Prokhorov on Sergei Bodrov's Mongol (2007)
Michael Ransome on Tamara Vladimirtseva and Andrei Panin's Gagarin's Grandson
Masha Salazkina on Dmitrii Meskhiev's 7 Stalls (2007)
Dawn Seckler on Pavel Chukhrai's The Russian Game (2007)

DoubleView:
Olga Mesropova on Andrei Konchalovskii's Gloss (2007)
Sasha Razor on Andrei Konchalovskii's Gloss (2007)

Television
David MacFadyen on Sergei Arlanov's KidsCorps
Jamie Miller on Oleg Massarygin and Maia Todorovskaia's Stalin's Wife

Central Asia and Turkic-Language Countries: Reviews
Gerald McCausland on Ernest Abdyjaparov's Pure Coolness (Kyrgyzstan)
Stephen M. Norris on Zhanna Issabaeva's Karoy (Kazakhstan)
Elena Stishova on Abai Kulbai's Strizh (Kazakhstan)

Happy reading

Birgit Beumers and Vladimir Padunov

_________________________________________
Vladimir Padunov
Associate Director, Film Studies Program
Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures
427 Cathedral of Learning           voice: 1-412-624-5713
University of Pittsburgh               FAX: 1-412-624-9714
Pittsburgh, PA 15260                        padunov at pitt.edu

Russian Film Symposium   http://www.rusfilm.pitt.edu

KinoKultura                       http://www.kinokultura.com

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From crosenth at USM.MAINE.EDU  Fri Apr  4 14:08:09 2008
From: crosenth at USM.MAINE.EDU (Charlotte Rosenthal)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 10:08:09 -0400
Subject: RUSLAN 1 PROOF READERS NEEDED
Message-ID: <FRI.4.APR.2008.100809.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Professor Langran:

I would be willing to proofread for you.  I currently use another textbook, but would be very open to changing.  This would give me a chance to decide.  Please let me know when your text will be ready for purchase, so that if I decided to adopt it, whether I could order it for the fall semester of 2008 (starting at the beginning of September).

Sincerely,
Charlotte Rosenthal
Professor of Russian

Charlotte Rosenthal, Ph. D.
Associate Professor of Russian
Dept. of Modern & Classical Langs. and Lits University of Southern Maine
Portland, ME 04104-9300 U.S.A.

crosenth at usm.maine.edu
>>> John Langran <john at RUSLAN.CO.UK> 04/04/08 5:41 AM >>>
COULD YOU PROOF READ A LESSON OF RUSLAN 1 ?

I have now more or less finished work on the basic content of Ruslan 1 for 
the US, and have done what I can to americanise/ze the English. I now need 
to get the book proofed and because this is being done on zero budget I am 
asking for volunteers, particularly from teachers who may already be using 
the course in its English edition, and also from others who are interested, 
to proof read one or more lessons of the book in the next 3 weeks. The task 
would be to check for English English that still needs translating to 
American English. If you spot any typos in the Russian in the process, that 
would be a bonus, but most of the Russian has been pasted direct from the 
old UK editions and is therefore already OK.

I would send you your lesson/s as a pdf file.
Participants will of course receive a copy of the book on publication.
Thanks to anyone who has the time to help.

Please reply off list to john at ruslan.co.uk

John Langran
www.ruslan.co.uk

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From a.jameson2 at DSL.PIPEX.COM  Fri Apr  4 15:20:00 2008
From: a.jameson2 at DSL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 16:20:00 +0100
Subject: FW: [SEELANGS] Final Call for Papers: Conference Perspectives on
 Slavistics III (Deadline extended!)
Message-ID: <FRI.4.APR.2008.162000.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
[mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Bernhard Brehmer
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 12:27 PM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: [SEELANGS] Final Call for Papers: Conference Perspectives on
Slavistics III (Deadline extended!)

EXTENDED DEADLINE: April 15, 2008
Due to many requests, we have decided to extend the deadline for paper
submission to "Perspectives on Slavistics 3" to April 15, 2008.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Final Call for Papers

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% 

The Department of Slavic Studies at the University of Hamburg and the
Department of Slavic Studies at the University of Tuebingen are pleased to
announce the Third International Conference "Perspectives on Slavistics".
The conference will take place in Hamburg, Germany, on August 28-31, 2008.
The goals of the conference are to encourage the study of Slavic languages
and literatures and to establish connections among scholars working in these
areas. 

The following keynote speakers have accepted the invitation to present at
the conference: 

- Patrice Dabrowski, Harvard University (USA)
- Gerd Hentschel, University of Oldenburg (Germany)
- Mikhail Iampolski, New York University (USA)
- Marek Lazinski, University of Warsaw (Poland)
- Karel Oliva, Czech Academy of Sciences (Czech Republic)
- Danko Sipka, Arizona State University (USA)
- Galin Tihanov, University of Manchester (UK) 

Submissions from any scholar working on Slavic languages or literatures are
welcomed, including those in Slavic departments, as well as in specialized
linguistics or literature departments. We particularly want to encourage
young scholars to participate in this conference. Papers will be considered
on topics relating to the diachronic or synchronic study of Slavic languages
and literatures from any theoretical perspective. 

There will be a special session on Electronic Resources of Slavic Languages.
The aim of the special session is to provide a forum for exchange of
information regarding the recent developments in the composition and design,
construction and use of different types of resources for Slavic languages.
We encourage submissions reporting on, but not limited to: 

- corpora (large and small, general and genre-specific, annotated and
non-annotated, single language and parallel corpora, spoken and written
language corpora, treebanks);

- wide-coverage grammars;

- computational lexicons, electronic terminology databases, dictionaries

(mono-  and multilingual);

- speech collections;

- wordnets, framenets, ontologies;

- tools for acquisition, construction, annotation and management of language
resources. 

Each paper submitted to the conference will be allowed thirty minutes
(including 10 minutes for discussion). Presentations should be in English in
order to open the conference up to researchers working on non-Slavic
languages and literatures. Data projectors and overhead projectors will be
provided upon request. The new deadline for submissions is April 15, 2008
(submission information and abstract specifications see below). 

The participation fee will be 80 euros (40 euros for graduate students and
passive participants), to be paid in advance. Detailed information on
payment options and local arrangements will be provided by May 2008. The
participation fee covers the abstract booklet, other conference materials,
refreshments and snacks. 

Submission information and abstract specifications: 

Abstracts for 20 minute talks (plus 10 minute discussion) should: 

- be anonymous;

- not exceed 500 words (plus an additional page for tables, figures and
references,  if necessary);

- use one-column format, Times New Roman, 12pt, single-spacing;

- use the international transcription of Cyrillic characters into Latin
characters;

- be in Adobe PDF format (please do include all fonts in PDF documents). 

Your abstract should present a hypothesis and outline your plan for
defending that hypothesis, i.e., it should specify research question(s), an
approach / method to the data, and obtained results. Each abstract will be
anonymously reviewed by independent reviewers. 

Abstracts should be submitted electronically via the EasyChair Conference
Manager at:
 <http://www.easychair.org/conferences/?conf=pos3>
http://www.easychair.org/conferences/?conf=pos3
You will be requested to enter a user name and password to enter the site.
If you do not have an EasyChair account, enter the following URL:
 <http://www.easychair.org/conferences/account_apply.cgi>
http://www.easychair.org/conferences/account_apply.cgi
to obtain one. Your account access information will be emailed to you.
After having logged in to the system, you will be able to submit your
abstract by (1) providing an address for correspondence, (2) specifying the
author(s), (3) providing the title and a short abstract in plain text (the
short abstract should summarize the essentials of the proposal in maximally
two short sentences), (4) specifying at least two keywords,
(5) selecting the topic relevant to your paper (Linguistics, Literature or
Resources), (6) uploading the PDF file with the full anonymous abstract
including the title and the abstract body.

The contact author of the paper will receive an auto-generated notification
of receipt via email.
The abstracts must be submitted no later than April 15, 2008. 
Notifications of the Organizing Committee's decisions will be sent out by
May 25, 2008.

Organizing Committee:
Bernhard Brehmer, University of Hamburg
Schamma Schahadat, University of Tuebingen Beata Trawinski, University of
Tuebingen Annette Werberger, University of Tuebingen 

Program Committee:      

Tanja Anstatt, Bochum University (Germany) Tania Avgustinova, DFKI (Germany)
Tilman Berger, University of Tuebingen (Germany) Igor Boguslavsky, Technical
University of Madrid (Spain) Greville G. Corbett, University of Surrey (UK)
Tomaz Erjavec, Jozef Stefan Institute (Slovenia) Susanne Frank, University
of Regensburg (Germany) Steven Franks, Indiana University (USA) Erika
Greber, University of Erlangen-Nuremberg (Germany) Thomas Grob, University
of Konstanz (Germany) Eva Hajicová, Charles University (Czech Republic)
Bjoern Hansen, University of Regensburg (Germany) Eva Hausbacher, University
of Salzburg (Austria) Gerd Hentschel, University of Oldenburg (Germany)
Mikhail Iampolski, New York University (USA) Catriona Kelly, University of
Oxford (UK) Sebastian Kempgen, University of Bamberg (Germany) Walter
Koschmal, University of Regensburg (Germany) Vadim Borisovic Krys'ko,
Russian Academy of Sciences (Russia) Volkmar Lehmann, University of Hamburg
(Germany) Marek Lazinski, University of Warsaw (Poland) Holt Meyer,
University of Erfurt (Germany) Michael Moser, University of Vienna (Austria)
Stefan Michael Newerkla, University of Vienna (Austria) Riccardo Nicolosi,
University of Konstanz (Germany) Maciej Piasecki, Wroclaw University of
Technology (Poland) Gilbert C. Rappaport, University of Texas at Austin
(USA) Zygmunt Saloni, University of Warmia and Mazury (Poland) Sylvia Sasse,
Humboldt-University Berlin (Germany) Ulrich Schmid, University of St. Gallen
(Switzerland) Serge Sharoff, University of Leeds (UK) Kiril Simov, Bulgarian
Academy of Sciences (Bulgaria) Danko Sipka, Arizona State University (USA)
Frantisek Stícha, Czech Academy of Sciences (Czech Republic) Dirk Uffelmann,
University of Passau (Germany) Zygmunt Vetulani, Adam Mickiewicz University
Poznan (Poland) Christian Voss, Humboldt-University Berlin (Germany) Daniel
Weiss, University of Zurich (Switzerland) Bjoern Wiemer, Johannes Gutenberg
University Mainz (Germany) Georg Witte, Free University of Berlin (Germany)
Gerhild Zybatow, University of Leipzig (Germany) 

Important Dates:

Abstract submission deadline: April 15, 2008 (extended) Notification of
acceptance: May 25, 2008

Conference: August 28-31, 2008 

Conference webpage:  <http://www.sfb441.uni-tuebingen.de/pos3/>
http://www.sfb441.uni-tuebingen.de/pos3/

Contact: pos3 at barlach.sfb.uni-tuebingen.de Submission page:
<http://www.easychair.org/conferences/?conf=pos3>
http://www.easychair.org/conferences/?conf=pos3

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From lily.alexander at UTORONTO.CA  Fri Apr  4 16:39:23 2008
From: lily.alexander at UTORONTO.CA (Lily Alexander)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 11:39:23 -0500
Subject: Time and Space - the best pieces
In-Reply-To: <003501c89667$5958aa40$0300a8c0@ANDREW>
Message-ID: <FRI.4.APR.2008.113923.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Colleagues,

I am trying to put together a collection on Time and Space in Art and 
Culture - a reader for the upper level - and very savvy - undergraduate 
students.

Modernism, postmodernism, contemporary visual culture, cyberspace, media 
and new media are also included.
Of course - there is a lot, and I am looking simply for the best, creme 
de la creme on the subject.

What I am looking for is the segments, chapters and articles between 10 
and 30 pages from the well-known theorists and less known original 
thinkers, who explore some aspects of time and space representation, 
conceptualization or functioning in the realm of culture and text.  I 
would prefer the ideas and concepts to close readings and case studies, 
although case studies (analyzes of specific work) of course are 
unavoidable.  Case studies would be included if the work is well known 
and its analysis is theoretically rich. Preference is given to 
experimentations and conventions breaking / violations of the rules. 
However original, thought provoking, paradigm shifting and 
non-traditional takes on the classical art or seemingly well-studied 
cultures or texts would be also appreciated.

The segments from the theorists of Russia and Eastern Europe (among 
others, such as Continental and Eastern/Asian thinkers) are welcome. 
Ideally, these pieces are already translated into English and could be 
of interest beyond Slavic studies.

Examples: Gogol on sculpture as pagan art, Panovsky's article on the 
dynamization of space and spatialization of time, Bakhtin on the 
chronotope in narrative systems, Raushenbah on the inverse perspective 
in art and space travel - these are desirable pieces in the context of 
others - for example, Deleuze on the baroque, McLuhan [on] in Space: A 
Cultural Geography (Richard Cavell), etc.

Please reply off or on list - whatever you prefer. Do not hesitate to 
recommend your own pieces as well, if you happened to be an author of an 
unknown or forgotten masterpiece.

With gratitude and best wishes,


Lily Alexander
 

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From ERIN.COLLOPY at TTU.EDU  Fri Apr  4 16:08:12 2008
From: ERIN.COLLOPY at TTU.EDU (Collopy, Erin)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 11:08:12 -0500
Subject: Query: Summer Russian language programs in Ukraine
Message-ID: <FRI.4.APR.2008.110812.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Seelangers,

 

A colleague in ESL has the opportunity to spend some time in Ukraine
this summer and she would like to study Russian formally while there.
Does anyone know of a decent summer Russian language program in Ukraine?
She would go to Russia but she won't have time to receive a visa before
she leaves the States at the end of the semester.

 

Please send me your responses off list.

 

Best regards,

Erin Collopy

 

 

___________________________

Erin Collopy, Ph.D.

Assistant Professor

Russian Language and Literature

Classical & Modern Languages & Literatures

Texas Tech University

Lubbock, TX 79409

806-742-3145, ext. 248

806-742-3306 fax

erin.collopy at ttu.edu

 


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From actrmbrs at SBCGLOBAL.NET  Fri Apr  4 16:14:08 2008
From: actrmbrs at SBCGLOBAL.NET (George Morris)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 11:14:08 -0500
Subject: ACTR Russian Scholar Laureate Award
Message-ID: <FRI.4.APR.2008.111408.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

REMINDER TO HIGH SCHOOL TEACHERS OF RUSSIAN: the ACTR Russian Scholar 
Laureate Award has a deadline of May 1 for 2008 nominations. Each school may nominate 
ONE sophomore or junior Russian student at any level for this award. Nomination letter 
must be on school stationery and signed by the principal or vice-principal. A color photo 
suitable for publication in the ACTR Letter must also be sent by email or by snail mail. 
Information required: school name and address, name of principal, teacher's name, 
student's name and home mailing and email addresses, his/her gpa, current grade in 
Russian, and whether a sophomore or junior.
     Send to: ACTR Russian Scholar Laureate, 3109 Yale Blvd., St. Charles, MO 63301-0462 
or <actr-laureate at sbcglobal.net> no later than May 1, 2008. Email the same address for a 
PDF file explaining the program and containing a nomination form. Awardees receive a 
certificate, lapel pin, and full recognition in the fall issue of the ACTR Letter. Membership in 
ACTR is not required to take advantage of this program.

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From n_shevchuk at YAHOO.COM  Fri Apr  4 18:51:43 2008
From: n_shevchuk at YAHOO.COM (Nina Shevchuk)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 11:51:43 -0700
Subject: Writing mapping project -- now in Russian!
Message-ID: <FRI.4.APR.2008.115143.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Colleagues:
The International WAC/WID Mapping Project at UC-Davis (Research on Activity/Initiatives
Worldwide Devoted to Student Writing in Disciplines) began in 2006 with the aim to identify, compile, analyze, and
facilitate activity and interest in writing in the disciplines in 
higher education around the world. We are interested both in first-language 
and English-language initiatives. 
The Project is sponsored in part by the International Network of WAC
Programs (INWAC).

The preliminary survey is now available in Russian. As teachers and colleagues, we hope you will take a moment to 
complete it on this website:
 http://mappingproject.ucdavis.edu/preliminarysurvey/
and/or forward the link to our colleagues in Russia and former Soviet countries. 
The survey collects confidential data about students' writing in your
program. At this stage, researchers are especially interested in 
student writing in and across disciplines other than English, including other
languages. 

For us, as teachers of Russian, this survey also represents a
chance to reflect upon our own disciplinary practices in regards to
writing as a learning tool at all stages of language acquisition and,
later on, in inter-cultural studies.

All responses are anonymously collected in a database that serves as the basis for various studies. 
I'll be happy to answer any questions that you or your colleagues might have.

Thank you,

Nina Shevchuk-Murray, MS, MA


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.  
http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com

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From maryana.bendus at GMAIL.COM  Fri Apr  4 18:49:02 2008
From: maryana.bendus at GMAIL.COM (Maryana Bendus)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 14:49:02 -0400
Subject: Query: Summer Russian language programs in Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <1D6D2BA337C63E4481E40C14B765CB2A01258873@CETUS.net.ttu.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.4.APR.2008.144902.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Erin,

Do you know exactly to which city your colleague plans to go? I'm from
Ukraine, but currently doing my Ph.D in Linguistics in Purdue
University, Indiana.

Best,
Maryana Bendus

On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 12:08 PM, Collopy, Erin <ERIN.COLLOPY at ttu.edu> wrote:
> Dear Seelangers,
>
>
>
>  A colleague in ESL has the opportunity to spend some time in Ukraine
>  this summer and she would like to study Russian formally while there.
>  Does anyone know of a decent summer Russian language program in Ukraine?
>  She would go to Russia but she won't have time to receive a visa before
>  she leaves the States at the end of the semester.
>
>
>
>  Please send me your responses off list.
>
>
>
>  Best regards,
>
>  Erin Collopy
>
>
>
>
>
>  ___________________________
>
>  Erin Collopy, Ph.D.
>
>  Assistant Professor
>
>  Russian Language and Literature
>
>  Classical & Modern Languages & Literatures
>
>  Texas Tech University
>
>  Lubbock, TX 79409
>
>  806-742-3145, ext. 248
>
>  806-742-3306 fax
>
>  erin.collopy at ttu.edu
>
>
>
>
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

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From ERIN.COLLOPY at TTU.EDU  Fri Apr  4 19:34:08 2008
From: ERIN.COLLOPY at TTU.EDU (Collopy, Erin)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 14:34:08 -0500
Subject: Query: Summer Russian language programs in Ukraine
In-Reply-To: A<88a96efd0804041149p43f39966jd30165c67c6979dd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.4.APR.2008.143408.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Maryna,

 

I don't think the city matters as much as the program. She wants to
study Russian and she'll already be in Turkey. I'd appreciate any
suggestions.

 

Best,

Erin

 

_____________________________________________

Erin Collopy

Assistant Professor

Classical & Modern Languages & Literatures

Texas Tech University

Lubbock, TX 79409

806-793-3590

erin.collopy at ttu.edu

-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
[mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Maryana Bendus
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 1:49 PM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Query: Summer Russian language programs in
Ukraine

 

Dear Erin,

 

Do you know exactly to which city your colleague plans to go? I'm from

Ukraine, but currently doing my Ph.D in Linguistics in Purdue

University, Indiana.

 

Best,

Maryana Bendus

 

On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 12:08 PM, Collopy, Erin <ERIN.COLLOPY at ttu.edu>
wrote:

> Dear Seelangers,

> 

> 

> 

>  A colleague in ESL has the opportunity to spend some time in Ukraine

>  this summer and she would like to study Russian formally while there.

>  Does anyone know of a decent summer Russian language program in
Ukraine?

>  She would go to Russia but she won't have time to receive a visa
before

>  she leaves the States at the end of the semester.

> 

> 

> 

>  Please send me your responses off list.

> 

> 

> 

>  Best regards,

> 

>  Erin Collopy

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>  ___________________________

> 

>  Erin Collopy, Ph.D.

> 

>  Assistant Professor

> 

>  Russian Language and Literature

> 

>  Classical & Modern Languages & Literatures

> 

>  Texas Tech University

> 

>  Lubbock, TX 79409

> 

>  806-742-3145, ext. 248

> 

>  806-742-3306 fax

> 

>  erin.collopy at ttu.edu

> 

> 

> 

> 

>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-

>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your
subscription

>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface
at:

>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/

>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-

> 

> 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------
-

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  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:

                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/

------------------------------------------------------------------------
-

 


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From avardan at FREENET.AM  Fri Apr  4 20:45:47 2008
From: avardan at FREENET.AM (Ashot Vardanyan)
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 00:45:47 +0400
Subject: > [SEELANGS] RUSLAN 1 PROOF READERS NEEDED
Message-ID: <SAT.5.APR.2008.004547.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

I wish I could do it till mid-May but, just in case, if you need similar assistance in the period of May 15 - August 20, it'll be my pleasure to help you.

Ashot Vardanyan,
University of Iowa

04/04 10:00 John Langran <john at RUSLAN.CO.UK> wrote:
> COULD YOU PROOF READ A LESSON OF RUSLAN 1 ?
> 
> I have now more or less finished work on the basic content of Ruslan
> 1 for 
> the US, and have done what I can to americanise/ze the English. I now
> need 
> to get the book proofed and because this is being done on zero budget
> I am 
> asking for volunteers, particularly from teachers who may already be
> using 
> the course in its English edition, and also from others who are
> interested, 
> to proof read one or more lessons of the book in the next 3 weeks.
> The task 
> would be to check for English English that still needs translating to
> 
> American English. If you spot any typos in the Russian in the
> process, that 
> would be a bonus, but most of the Russian has been pasted direct from
> the 
> old UK editions and is therefore already OK.
> 
> I would send you your lesson/s as a pdf file.
> Participants will of course receive a copy of the book on
> publication.
> Thanks to anyone who has the time to help.
> 
> Please reply off list to john at ruslan.co.uk
> 
> John Langran
> www.ruslan.co.uk
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your
> subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface
> at:
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> 
> 
>


--
http://www.freenet.am/

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From iamlearningenglish at GMAIL.COM  Fri Apr  4 22:01:15 2008
From: iamlearningenglish at GMAIL.COM (Dustin Hosseini)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 17:01:15 -0500
Subject: Query: Summer Russian language programs in Ukraine
Message-ID: <FRI.4.APR.2008.170115.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

I'm afraid the city might actually make a difference.  Historically, cities
in western Ukraine tend to be pro-Ukrainian language in everyday life and
lately even officially.  On the other hand, eastern Ukraine tends to be more
pro-Russian.  

So whereas in Lvov they'd prefer to speak Ukrainian, people would rather
speak Russian in say Kharkov.  

In Kiev you can get away with both Russian and Ukrainian, unless you run
into some street vendors who absolutely refuse to speak Russian; I've
experienced this on numerous occasions while visiting Kiev.  Again, these
were street vendors who were selling tourist items - not those working in
general services (hotels, shops, banks, etc).  

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From maryana.bendus at GMAIL.COM  Fri Apr  4 22:38:40 2008
From: maryana.bendus at GMAIL.COM (Maryana Bendus)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 15:38:40 -0700
Subject: Query: Summer Russian language programs in Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <LISTSERV%200804041701152751.196F@BAMA.UA.EDU>
Message-ID: <FRI.4.APR.2008.153840.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

That's exactly what I wanted to mention. And that's exactly right! You
will have a lot of options in big cities, and a lot more practice in
Russian in Eastern Ukraine. I'm from L'viv - and we all speak
Ukrainian there. Russian is very rare as an everyday spoken language
in almost all cities in the west of Ukraine. Kyiv is much more
Ukrainian-speaking now than it was some even 5 years ago, but you'll
have much more Russian language practice there than in western cities.

Best,
Maryana

On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 3:01 PM, Dustin Hosseini
<iamlearningenglish at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm afraid the city might actually make a difference.  Historically, cities
>  in western Ukraine tend to be pro-Ukrainian language in everyday life and
>  lately even officially.  On the other hand, eastern Ukraine tends to be more
>  pro-Russian.
>
>  So whereas in Lvov they'd prefer to speak Ukrainian, people would rather
>  speak Russian in say Kharkov.
>
>  In Kiev you can get away with both Russian and Ukrainian, unless you run
>  into some street vendors who absolutely refuse to speak Russian; I've
>  experienced this on numerous occasions while visiting Kiev.  Again, these
>  were street vendors who were selling tourist items - not those working in
>  general services (hotels, shops, banks, etc).
>
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

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From fomina_brainina at YAHOO.COM  Sat Apr  5 11:57:26 2008
From: fomina_brainina at YAHOO.COM (Maria Fomina)
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 04:57:26 -0700
Subject: Looking for a Russian Instructor in New York
Message-ID: <SAT.5.APR.2008.045726.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Deer SEELANGSes
Could you please send me this post from Dina Kupchanka
Thanks a lot

Maria Fomina


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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From Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK  Sat Apr  5 12:18:22 2008
From: Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK (Alexandra Smith)
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 13:18:22 +0100
Subject: Chair in Russian (St Andrews)
Message-ID: <SAT.5.APR.2008.131822.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Source: jobs.ac.uk
--------------------------
University of St Andrews
Chair In Russian
School Of Modern Languages
Department Of Russian
We wish to appoint an outstanding scholar with an international  
reputation in any area of Russian Studies to a Chair in Russian, by 1  
September 2008 or as soon as possible thereafter. You should be able  
to demonstrate a sustained research and publications record of  
international standing, have a proven capacity for academic  
leadership, have a commitment to the achievement of the highest  
standards in teaching and programme development at undergraduate and  
postgraduate levels, and be ready to play a major role in shaping the  
future of Russian Studies at St Andrews.

Please quote ref: ME138/08
Closing date: 16 May 2008

Application forms and further particulars are available from Human  
Resources, University of St Andrews, College Gate, North Street, St  
Andrews, Fife KY16 9AJ, (tel: 01334 462571, by fax 01334 462570 or by  
e-mail Jobline at st-andrews.ac.uk. The advertisement, further  
particulars and a downloadable application form can be found at  
http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/employment/.

The University is committed to equality of opportunity.

The University of St Andrews is a charity registered in Scotland (No SC013532)




========================================
Alexandra Smith (PhD, University of London)
Reader in Russian
Department of European Languages and Cultures
School of  Languages, Literatures and Cultures
The University of Edinburgh
David Hume Tower
George Square
Edinburgh EX8 9JX
UK

tel. +44-(0)131-6511381
fax: +44- (0)131- 650-3604
e-mail: Alexandra.Smith at ed.ac.uk





-- 
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.

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From frosset at WHEATONMA.EDU  Sat Apr  5 16:41:30 2008
From: frosset at WHEATONMA.EDU (Francoise Rosset)
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 12:41:30 -0400
Subject: Sources on Russian (popular?) culture 1880-1910s
Message-ID: <SAT.5.APR.2008.124130.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear SEELangers:

I'm looking for suggestions for an (undergraduate) non-Russian major 
student asking about _general_ sources discussing "cultural norms," 
"attitudes toward gender, religion, education, the family" around 
Chekhov's time.

The library has suggested books like _Natasha's Dance_ and _Cultural 
Mythologies_. All my material on Chekhov is about stage history or 
literature (including *Anton Chekhov and His Times*, which consists of 
correspondence). I could also suggest various specific things on the 
"Woman Question," Sofia Kovalevskaia, The Kreutzer Sonata, Kollontai 
etc. But I don't have anything general to suggest and very little on 
religion, education. Perhaps a few articles?

Thank you,
-FR






Francoise Rosset, Associate Professor
Chair, Russian and Russian Studies
Coordinator, German and Russian
Wheaton College
Norton, Massachusetts 02766
Office: (508) 285-3696
FAX:   (508) 286-3640

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From brooksjef at GMAIL.COM  Sat Apr  5 17:22:29 2008
From: brooksjef at GMAIL.COM (jeff brooks)
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 13:22:29 -0400
Subject: Sources on Russian (popular?) culture 1880-1910s
In-Reply-To: <web-17468937@wheatonma.edu>
Message-ID: <SAT.5.APR.2008.132229.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

On popular fiction, your student might take a look at my When Russia Learned
to Read available in a paperback edition from Northwestern in the series
Studies in Russian Literature and Theory. In it I explore the popular
literature of this period (lubochnaia literatura), which was widely read by
ordinary people, commented upon by Dostoevsky and others, and rivaled by
Tolstoy and his publishing house Posrednik. I also discuss the popular
literature in the early 20th century including detective stories, adventure
novels, and Verbitskaia and women's literature, which appealed to a more
diverse public. In the book I describe the authors, publishers, and readers
of the popular fiction, including their experience with education and
literacy. I also analyze the major themes of the popular fiction and Russian
culture including rebellion and freedom, success and social mobility,
science and the occult, and nationalism, empire, and the Russian
identity. Of course, these themes interested the interests of the great
writers of the era from Dostoevsky and Tolstoy to Chekhov and Gorky.

Cheers,

Jeffrey Brooks
Professor of Russian History
The Johns Hopkins University


.On Sat, Apr 5, 2008 at 12:41 PM, Francoise Rosset <frosset at wheatonma.edu>
wrote:

> Dear SEELangers:
>
> I'm looking for suggestions for an (undergraduate) non-Russian major
> student asking about _general_ sources discussing "cultural norms,"
> "attitudes toward gender, religion, education, the family" around Chekhov's
> time.
>
> The library has suggested books like _Natasha's Dance_ and _Cultural
> Mythologies_. All my material on Chekhov is about stage history or
> literature (including *Anton Chekhov and His Times*, which consists of
> correspondence). I could also suggest various specific things on the "Woman
> Question," Sofia Kovalevskaia, The Kreutzer Sonata, Kollontai etc. But I
> don't have anything general to suggest and very little on religion,
> education. Perhaps a few articles?
>
> Thank you,
> -FR
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Francoise Rosset, Associate Professor
> Chair, Russian and Russian Studies
> Coordinator, German and Russian
> Wheaton College
> Norton, Massachusetts 02766
> Office: (508) 285-3696
> FAX:   (508) 286-3640
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                   http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

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From Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK  Sat Apr  5 17:35:27 2008
From: Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK (Alexandra Smith)
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 18:35:27 +0100
Subject: Sources on Russian (popular?) culture 1880-1910s
In-Reply-To: <web-17468937@wheatonma.edu>
Message-ID: <SAT.5.APR.2008.183527.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Francoise,

Unfortunately Orlando Figes's book Natasha Dance has too many errors  
and it's not a reliable source of information.

I hope some books listed below will be of some help to your student:

1.Engelstein, Laura. The Keys to Happiness: Sex and the Search for  
Modernity in Fin-de-Siecle Russia (1992);
2. Amy Mandelker "FRAMING ANNA KARENINA: Tolstoy, the Woman Question,  
and the Victorian Novel".
3.  Schuler, Catherine. " Women In Russian Theatre: The Actress in the  
Silver Age (Gender in Performance)".
4.     Olga Vainshtein. "Dandy. Fashion, Literature and Lifestyle", 2006.
5. John Hutchinson. "Late Imperial Russia, 1890-1917", 1999.
6, Kelly, Catriona. Refining Russia: Advice Literature, Polite  
Culture, and Gender from Catherine to Yeltsin (OUP 2001).
7.Hosking, Geoffrey. Russia: People and Empire (1552-1917); and:  
Russia and the Russians.

All best,
Sasha Smith




================================
Alexandra Smith (PhD, University of London)
Reader in Russian
Department of European Languages and Cultures
School of  Languages, Literatures and Cultures
The University of Edinburgh
David Hume Tower
George Square
Edinburgh EX8 9JX
UK

tel. +44-(0)131-6511381
fax: +44- (0)131- 650-3604
e-mail: Alexandra.Smith at ed.ac.uk


Quoting Francoise Rosset <frosset at WHEATONMA.EDU>:

> Dear SEELangers:
>
> I'm looking for suggestions for an (undergraduate) non-Russian major
> student asking about _general_ sources discussing "cultural norms,"
> "attitudes toward gender, religion, education, the family" around
> Chekhov's time.
>
> The library has suggested books like _Natasha's Dance_ and _Cultural
> Mythologies_. All my material on Chekhov is about stage history or
> literature (including *Anton Chekhov and His Times*, which consists of
> correspondence). I could also suggest various specific things on the
> "Woman Question," Sofia Kovalevskaia, The Kreutzer Sonata, Kollontai
> etc. But I don't have anything general to suggest and very little on
> religion, education. Perhaps a few articles?
>
> Thank you,
> -FR
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Francoise Rosset, Associate Professor
> Chair, Russian and Russian Studies
> Coordinator, German and Russian
> Wheaton College
> Norton, Massachusetts 02766
> Office: (508) 285-3696
> FAX:   (508) 286-3640
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------



-- 
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.

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From sbauckus at EARTHLINK.NET  Sat Apr  5 20:01:55 2008
From: sbauckus at EARTHLINK.NET (Susan Bauckus)
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 13:01:55 -0700
Subject: language maintenance over the summer?
Message-ID: <SAT.5.APR.2008.130155.0700.>

Audio books, radio, movies, and all those authentic materials are enriching
and fun, but students who've had only one year of study and who are willing
to pursue these activities probably don't need to have it suggested to them
because they are likely to be very ambitious to take on such an enormous
challenge. For some students, including very good ones, it's daunting and I
wonder if it may be counterproductive. A challenge for us is to figure out
how to help beginning students when they want to work on maintenance by
themselves. I don't know the answer to that question and doubt there's a
single answer, but I'm not convinced that telling 1st year students to do
the same thing that advanced students would do is much of an answer either. 

Or is it? Has anyone had experience with students who have followed
suggestions made on this thread or elsewhere, and what has happened? I
would love to know more about this. 
Thanks,
Susi

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From lekic at ACTR.ORG  Sat Apr  5 16:52:53 2008
From: lekic at ACTR.ORG (Masha Lekic)
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 12:52:53 -0400
Subject: News item: AP Language,
 Computer Courses Cut - washingtonpost.com
In-Reply-To: <01f201c8964e$8f031ae0$0501a8c0@inspiron>
Message-ID: <SAT.5.APR.2008.125253.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

SEELANGers, 

The recent decision by College Board does not affect the Prototype AP
Russian administration.  Thank for the inquiry and thanks to SEELANGers for
support of entering freshmen students presenting AP Russian score reports as
part of their university matriculations.  Interest in the test has continued
to rise, which we hope reflects increasing interest in Russian more
generally among US students.

Best,

Masha Lekic (ACTR and University of Maryland)


On 04.04.2008 08:22, "David Powelstock" <pstock at BRANDEIS.EDU> wrote:

> SEELANGers,
> 
> This may be of interest. Among the AP exams to be cut is Italian language. Can
> anyone speak to the status of the Russian AP prototype. Is it moving forward?
> Have these cuts at the College Board threatened it?
> 
> *****
> 
> The College Board told U.S. teachers in an e-mail yesterday that four
> underenrolled Advanced Placement courses will be eliminated after the 2008-09
> academic year in the first significant retrenchment of the college preparatory
> program in its 53-year history.
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/03/AR200804030392
> 5.html?sub=AR
> 
> *****
> 
> Cheers,
> David Powelstock
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 

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From emilka at MAC.COM  Sat Apr  5 20:56:11 2008
From: emilka at MAC.COM (Emily Saunders)
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 13:56:11 -0700
Subject: language maintenance over the summer?
In-Reply-To: <380-220084652015520@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <SAT.5.APR.2008.135611.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

It has been my experience that in order to get a student to actually  
(more than just one time) do anything over the summer that at all has  
a whiff of academia to it (regardless of any end of semester good  
intentions), it needs to be fun.  I, too, in my early Russian language  
studies years, bought those lovely simplified books with Russian on  
the one side and English on the other, and never got through more than  
one, maybe two pages of it.  Why?  Because it was hard and frustrating  
and because honestly I wasn't too worried about finding out how the  
stories ended.  And, I suppose, heresy of heresies, because I'm not a  
big fan of Chekhov and those books seem crammed full of his stuff with  
a few short stories by Gogol and Tolstoy thrown in for good measure.   
19th century literature, even simplified, and 1st year ability just  
make for a little too much hard work to be a fun afternoon's  
exercise.  Unless it has been assigned as homework, the likelihood  
that the student will actually do it is fairly slim.

In the rather unsubtle course I took on using the communicative  
approach a few years back it was bashed into our heads that students  
need exposure, exposure, exposure to the language -- hopefully mostly  
comprehensible inputs, but in general exposure -- before being asked  
to actively produce.  What better exposure than listening to music or  
watching a movie with English language subtitles.  Music in particular  
fits in with daily life in a way that no other activity does.  You can  
put a CD on in the car or while you're doing the dishes.  If you hear  
the same innocuous pop song over and over and over again, phrases like  
from the, may ye all forgive me, Kirkorov "wonder" hit:  "Ty moja  
ban'ka, ya tvoj ban'sh'ik," will eventually sink in.  And the best  
part is that you weren't even noticing it as it happened, and because  
it is music (and not an audio book) you do not have to understand  
every single word in order to enjoy it.  There's a Thompson Twins  
single from the '80's that still baffles me -- "Hold me now, hold me  
in your lovin' arms" and then "warm my heart"? "one fine hour"? "wan  
tripe fart"?  Still can't really guess at it, but that didn't keep me  
from listening to it growing up.  And with listening to music you get  
a two fer:  students get more exposure to the target language AND some  
acquaintance with a bit of low-brow Russian pop-culture, which will  
buy them some social currency when they go over for an exchange and  
get to mix with people their own age.

At any rate, I should say that from my own personal experience  
studying Russian in the late '80's early '90's, listening to Akvarium,  
Kino, and Mashina Vremeni was invaluable to me in keeping up my  
Russian over summers and then later in bonding with Russian roommates  
when I went on an ACC exchange.  So, while I guess I am taking a wee  
bit of umbrage at the notion that suggesting students listen to music  
and watch movies (WITH ENGLISH SUBTITLES) is at all  
"counterproductive," in general I mean these suggestions to be  
helpful.  They were methods that worked well for me.

That being said, I'd be interested in any other suggestions that have  
worked well for others.  I will be teaching a community ed beginning  
Russian class this spring, and have been putting together a few "what  
you can do outside of class" recommendations since we'll be meeting  
only once a week.  Specific URLs or book titles are extremely welcome.

Regards,

Emily Saunders

On Apr 5, 2008, at 1:01 PM, Susan Bauckus wrote:

> Audio books, radio, movies, and all those authentic materials are  
> enriching
> and fun, but students who've had only one year of study and who are  
> willing
> to pursue these activities probably don't need to have it suggested  
> to them
> because they are likely to be very ambitious to take on such an  
> enormous
> challenge. For some students, including very good ones, it's  
> daunting and I
> wonder if it may be counterproductive. A challenge for us is to  
> figure out
> how to help beginning students when they want to work on maintenance  
> by
> themselves. I don't know the answer to that question and doubt  
> there's a
> single answer, but I'm not convinced that telling 1st year students  
> to do
> the same thing that advanced students would do is much of an answer  
> either.
>
> Or is it? Has anyone had experience with students who have followed
> suggestions made on this thread or elsewhere, and what has happened? I
> would love to know more about this.
> Thanks,
> Susi
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------


From klinela at COMCAST.NET  Sat Apr  5 21:14:37 2008
From: klinela at COMCAST.NET (Laura Kline)
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 17:14:37 -0400
Subject: language maintenance over the summer?
In-Reply-To: <4444DFC2-24CF-4C84-9DEF-14D207361C3D@mac.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.5.APR.2008.171437.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Over the past few summers I have held "Russian Tea" every two weeks to help
students keep their Russian active, and have had quite a few students come.
Perhaps you can find a student or two who would organize a regular
conversation group.
Best,
Laura Kline

-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
[mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Emily Saunders
Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 4:56 PM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] language maintenance over the summer?

It has been my experience that in order to get a student to actually  
(more than just one time) do anything over the summer that at all has  
a whiff of academia to it (regardless of any end of semester good  
intentions), it needs to be fun.  I, too, in my early Russian language  
studies years, bought those lovely simplified books with Russian on  
the one side and English on the other, and never got through more than  
one, maybe two pages of it.  Why?  Because it was hard and frustrating  
and because honestly I wasn't too worried about finding out how the  
stories ended.  And, I suppose, heresy of heresies, because I'm not a  
big fan of Chekhov and those books seem crammed full of his stuff with  
a few short stories by Gogol and Tolstoy thrown in for good measure.   
19th century literature, even simplified, and 1st year ability just  
make for a little too much hard work to be a fun afternoon's  
exercise.  Unless it has been assigned as homework, the likelihood  
that the student will actually do it is fairly slim.

In the rather unsubtle course I took on using the communicative  
approach a few years back it was bashed into our heads that students  
need exposure, exposure, exposure to the language -- hopefully mostly  
comprehensible inputs, but in general exposure -- before being asked  
to actively produce.  What better exposure than listening to music or  
watching a movie with English language subtitles.  Music in particular  
fits in with daily life in a way that no other activity does.  You can  
put a CD on in the car or while you're doing the dishes.  If you hear  
the same innocuous pop song over and over and over again, phrases like  
from the, may ye all forgive me, Kirkorov "wonder" hit:  "Ty moja  
ban'ka, ya tvoj ban'sh'ik," will eventually sink in.  And the best  
part is that you weren't even noticing it as it happened, and because  
it is music (and not an audio book) you do not have to understand  
every single word in order to enjoy it.  There's a Thompson Twins  
single from the '80's that still baffles me -- "Hold me now, hold me  
in your lovin' arms" and then "warm my heart"? "one fine hour"? "wan  
tripe fart"?  Still can't really guess at it, but that didn't keep me  
from listening to it growing up.  And with listening to music you get  
a two fer:  students get more exposure to the target language AND some  
acquaintance with a bit of low-brow Russian pop-culture, which will  
buy them some social currency when they go over for an exchange and  
get to mix with people their own age.

At any rate, I should say that from my own personal experience  
studying Russian in the late '80's early '90's, listening to Akvarium,  
Kino, and Mashina Vremeni was invaluable to me in keeping up my  
Russian over summers and then later in bonding with Russian roommates  
when I went on an ACC exchange.  So, while I guess I am taking a wee  
bit of umbrage at the notion that suggesting students listen to music  
and watch movies (WITH ENGLISH SUBTITLES) is at all  
"counterproductive," in general I mean these suggestions to be  
helpful.  They were methods that worked well for me.

That being said, I'd be interested in any other suggestions that have  
worked well for others.  I will be teaching a community ed beginning  
Russian class this spring, and have been putting together a few "what  
you can do outside of class" recommendations since we'll be meeting  
only once a week.  Specific URLs or book titles are extremely welcome.

Regards,

Emily Saunders

On Apr 5, 2008, at 1:01 PM, Susan Bauckus wrote:

> Audio books, radio, movies, and all those authentic materials are  
> enriching
> and fun, but students who've had only one year of study and who are  
> willing
> to pursue these activities probably don't need to have it suggested  
> to them
> because they are likely to be very ambitious to take on such an  
> enormous
> challenge. For some students, including very good ones, it's  
> daunting and I
> wonder if it may be counterproductive. A challenge for us is to  
> figure out
> how to help beginning students when they want to work on maintenance  
> by
> themselves. I don't know the answer to that question and doubt  
> there's a
> single answer, but I'm not convinced that telling 1st year students  
> to do
> the same thing that advanced students would do is much of an answer  
> either.
>
> Or is it? Has anyone had experience with students who have followed
> suggestions made on this thread or elsewhere, and what has happened? I
> would love to know more about this.
> Thanks,
> Susi
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

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  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
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From oothappam at EARTHLINK.NET  Sat Apr  5 21:16:13 2008
From: oothappam at EARTHLINK.NET (Herself)
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 14:16:13 -0700
Subject: language maintenance over the summer?
Message-ID: <SAT.5.APR.2008.141613.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Would anyone here object to a comment on this topic by a person who has been 
studying Russian by herself- with no teacher or class, for a year?
Nola
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Susan Bauckus" <sbauckus at EARTHLINK.NET>
To: <SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] language maintenance over the summer?


> Audio books, radio, movies, and all those authentic materials are 
> enriching
> and fun, but students who've had only one year of study and who are 
> willing
> to pursue these activities probably don't need to have it suggested to 
> them
> because they are likely to be very ambitious to take on such an enormous
> challenge. For some students, including very good ones, it's daunting and 
> I
> wonder if it may be counterproductive. A challenge for us is to figure out
> how to help beginning students when they want to work on maintenance by
> themselves. I don't know the answer to that question and doubt there's a
> single answer, but I'm not convinced that telling 1st year students to do
> the same thing that advanced students would do is much of an answer 
> either.
>
> Or is it? Has anyone had experience with students who have followed
> suggestions made on this thread or elsewhere, and what has happened? I
> would love to know more about this.
> Thanks,
> Susi
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


From sbauckus at EARTHLINK.NET  Sat Apr  5 22:59:08 2008
From: sbauckus at EARTHLINK.NET (Susan Bauckus)
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 15:59:08 -0700
Subject: language maintenance over the summer?
Message-ID: <SAT.5.APR.2008.155908.0700.>

I'm sorry to cause umbrage. and I don't think that watching movies or
listening to pop music is a bad thing for beginning students, although I
have doubts about audiobooks and literary works except for exemplary people
who like to climb high mountains. we all know that people who learn
languages well are largely self-taught, but when and w/ what materials does
that kind autonomous learning start, and do materials and activities differ
from one stage to the next? how much language do most students get from
music and movies, even w/ subtitles � without support they'd get in the
classroom � after one year of study? Movies and music are fun and
motivating and offer other rewards, and that alone may justify them, but
it's not clear to me whether many people learn much language that way after
one year of study. I don't mean to ask what people can learn in principle
if they apply themselves to a universe of materials in a superhuman
fashion. after all, we don't expect that kind of effort of our students in
the classroom, where they have us to help them -- we don't teach a second
year class to first year students. Once again, I don't know the answer to
this but am curious. 

I think it would be very interesting to hear from someone who is studying
by herself.




> [Original Message]
> From: Emily Saunders <emilka at MAC.COM>
> To: <SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU>
> Date: 4/5/2008 1:56:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] language maintenance over the summer?
>
> It has been my experience that in order to get a student to actually  
> (more than just one time) do anything over the summer that at all has  
> a whiff of academia to it (regardless of any end of semester good  
> intentions), it needs to be fun.  I, too, in my early Russian language  
> studies years, bought those lovely simplified books with Russian on  
> the one side and English on the other, and never got through more than  
> one, maybe two pages of it.  Why?  Because it was hard and frustrating  
> and because honestly I wasn't too worried about finding out how the  
> stories ended.  And, I suppose, heresy of heresies, because I'm not a  
> big fan of Chekhov and those books seem crammed full of his stuff with  
> a few short stories by Gogol and Tolstoy thrown in for good measure.   
> 19th century literature, even simplified, and 1st year ability just  
> make for a little too much hard work to be a fun afternoon's  
> exercise.  Unless it has been assigned as homework, the likelihood  
> that the student will actually do it is fairly slim.
>
> In the rather unsubtle course I took on using the communicative  
> approach a few years back it was bashed into our heads that students  
> need exposure, exposure, exposure to the language -- hopefully mostly  
> comprehensible inputs, but in general exposure -- before being asked  
> to actively produce.  What better exposure than listening to music or  
> watching a movie with English language subtitles.  Music in particular  
> fits in with daily life in a way that no other activity does.  You can  
> put a CD on in the car or while you're doing the dishes.  If you hear  
> the same innocuous pop song over and over and over again, phrases like  
> from the, may ye all forgive me, Kirkorov "wonder" hit:  "Ty moja  
> ban'ka, ya tvoj ban'sh'ik," will eventually sink in.  And the best  
> part is that you weren't even noticing it as it happened, and because  
> it is music (and not an audio book) you do not have to understand  
> every single word in order to enjoy it.  There's a Thompson Twins  
> single from the '80's that still baffles me -- "Hold me now, hold me  
> in your lovin' arms" and then "warm my heart"? "one fine hour"? "wan  
> tripe fart"?  Still can't really guess at it, but that didn't keep me  
> from listening to it growing up.  And with listening to music you get  
> a two fer:  students get more exposure to the target language AND some  
> acquaintance with a bit of low-brow Russian pop-culture, which will  
> buy them some social currency when they go over for an exchange and  
> get to mix with people their own age.
>
> At any rate, I should say that from my own personal experience  
> studying Russian in the late '80's early '90's, listening to Akvarium,  
> Kino, and Mashina Vremeni was invaluable to me in keeping up my  
> Russian over summers and then later in bonding with Russian roommates  
> when I went on an ACC exchange.  So, while I guess I am taking a wee  
> bit of umbrage at the notion that suggesting students listen to music  
> and watch movies (WITH ENGLISH SUBTITLES) is at all  
> "counterproductive," in general I mean these suggestions to be  
> helpful.  They were methods that worked well for me.
>
> That being said, I'd be interested in any other suggestions that have  
> worked well for others.  I will be teaching a community ed beginning  
> Russian class this spring, and have been putting together a few "what  
> you can do outside of class" recommendations since we'll be meeting  
> only once a week.  Specific URLs or book titles are extremely welcome.
>
> Regards,
>
> Emily Saunders
>
> On Apr 5, 2008, at 1:01 PM, Susan Bauckus wrote:
>
> > Audio books, radio, movies, and all those authentic materials are  
> > enriching
> > and fun, but students who've had only one year of study and who are  
> > willing
> > to pursue these activities probably don't need to have it suggested  
> > to them
> > because they are likely to be very ambitious to take on such an  
> > enormous
> > challenge. For some students, including very good ones, it's  
> > daunting and I
> > wonder if it may be counterproductive. A challenge for us is to  
> > figure out
> > how to help beginning students when they want to work on maintenance  
> > by
> > themselves. I don't know the answer to that question and doubt  
> > there's a
> > single answer, but I'm not convinced that telling 1st year students  
> > to do
> > the same thing that advanced students would do is much of an answer  
> > either.
> >
> > Or is it? Has anyone had experience with students who have followed
> > suggestions made on this thread or elsewhere, and what has happened? I
> > would love to know more about this.
> > Thanks,
> > Susi
> >
> >
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> >  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> >                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> >
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

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From ewb2 at CORNELL.EDU  Sun Apr  6 00:21:18 2008
From: ewb2 at CORNELL.EDU (E Wayles Browne)
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 20:21:18 -0400
Subject: language maintenance over the summer?
In-Reply-To: <001901c89762$474b1030$2101a8c0@Nola>
Message-ID: <SAT.5.APR.2008.202118.0400.>

I would very much like to hear your comments. In general I
encourage students to tell me their views, because
they know some things I can learn from.
-- 
Wayles Browne, Assoc. Prof. of Linguistics
Department of Linguistics
Morrill Hall 220, Cornell University
Ithaca, New York 14853, U.S.A.

tel. 607-255-0712 (o), 607-273-3009 (h)
fax 607-255-2044 (write FOR W. BROWNE)
e-mail ewb2 at cornell.edu

> Would anyone here object to a comment on this topic by a person who has
> been
> studying Russian by herself- with no teacher or class, for a year?
> Nola

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------


From oothappam at EARTHLINK.NET  Sun Apr  6 01:04:57 2008
From: oothappam at EARTHLINK.NET (Herself)
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 18:04:57 -0700
Subject: language maintenance-this is long, so get a cup of tea!
Message-ID: <SAT.5.APR.2008.180457.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

    On the  topic  of what students could do over the summer:  I think they should find something- a hobby, an obsession, a real love- that they normally are very interested in, and study new things about it in Russian. They can keep their textbooks and dictionaries around in case they need them, and  hopefully they will end up using those for reference-but NOT put pressure upon themselves to "keep up the Russian". They DO need to keep it up, of course,  but not with the attitude that that is what they are doing. They have to  do something FUN that they already like...and incorporate Russian into it. Examples: if it is sewing-then find out about Russian patterns and designs and sewing books-try to buy a Russian pattern and made something-they'd have to follow the directions in Russian..if it is a sport, watch it or read about it in Russian, join an online group or website dedicated to that sport, in Russian. If they love computers,make  a website in Russian. If someone  has a second computer, buy Russian Windows and install that and learn to use it. 
    Students might enjoy this whole question as a summer assignment. It might be fun to give  students who plan to continue in Russian and who will be back in the fall this assignment for the summer :  
                       "Help us find ideas of how students can continue learning Russian over the summer. Find everything you can in any genre of media you can, and as you go through your summer, keep a list of things you found that were fun and also got you thinking about/listening to/speaking/writing/reading/thinking  in Russian. When you come back in the autumn, a prize will be awarded to the student with the most useful or long list--or the list containing the most things that are so useful that we can incorporate them into our suggested activities".
 The prize could be something like 2 tickets to a museum exhibit, play, film, DDT concert or something Russian-related.(If it was me, I'd work hard to get those DDT tickets!!)

    I am studying on my own and so there is no summer break for me. But I have noticed things about this studying of Russian. One is that I do need a break sometimes, despite my high motivation for learning this language. And with languages, when you are away from the material, you will forget  and then have to re-learn things again later. So, realizing this, I decided to make a personal rule for myself: Do something each day, anything, as long  as it is in Russian. Just something! So when I feel burnt-out from these grammar books, I do one of the following things: Watch a Russian film (of course!), watch Russian TV(I have DishNetwork and a few Russian channels. Watching the news is fun, especially because one of my daughters has  now "fallen in love" with one of the Russian reporters!  And I love one particular TV show where a taxi driver picks up people who then become contestants on the show and have to answer questions during the ride for a prize. I love seeing the views of Moscow through the cab window, hearing the popular tunes they play, and observing the behavior of the passengers and trying to understand the words. ) Browse Russian websites. Use Google.ru. Listen to Russian songs and get the Russian lyrics and try to sing along-this is very good! Memorize short Russian poems for children. Read children's tales. Watch Russian cartoons. Try to cook a recipe from a Russian cookbook. Look at www.Russiantable.com and decide what chocolates I want to order and see how I like them. Look at Russian recipe and cooking websites! Read recipes. Talk to people on Skype who want to practice Russian or who prefer to speak Russian. Listen to audio files of Винни пух and read along with the text and try to understand. Watch ridiculous videos on youtube which are in Russian. 
    I stop doing something if I start to feel bored, and then go to something completely different.Even if I am ill, I find something! Listen to my little mp3 player while in bed, to Pimsleur lessons, or to Russian songs.
 
    I realize that nothing here is new to any of you. I am sure you are aware of many more things than I've found! And it seems there is an endless universe of great "Russian stuff" on the internet and in other media.(And I am sooooo glad!)
 As long as I follow my self-imposed personal rule, I'm ok. I end up absorbing things even when I don't realize it. Later I will find a word and remember that I saw it already somewhere. I might not remember where, but it is familiar. Doing this every day has taken the strangeness away from Russian for me. It all seems familiar and comfortable and not so intimidating. And I like that feeling of joy that I get when something that seemed unimportant turns up later in a grammar book and I already saw it or heard it before and it is easier to learn because of that. And memories need connections to make them really stick. I am at the point now where this does not feel like drudgery anymore. It is more fun because I have built up a little foundation  of things that can be connected to, in my brain. New things I study slways seem to click in there somehow because of something I saw somewhere before.It is all becoming more meaningful. (And it may also have something to do with that "Russian language learning curve")

    Another thing I would like to mention is that because I am on my own, I have bought a variety of used textbooks. At first it was a little confusing because I could not really decide which to use as a base. Then I sort of worked out a system where I would pick one and go as far in that one as I can, then stop and take up another, and go as far as I can in that one, and so on. Over time, I would get back to the first one again and see that I have progressed and can now go much farther in that one..and so then I continue on again with them all. It was rough  in the beginning because after the authors finish with the usual introduction of alphabet and pronounciation rules, then anything goes. Some begin discussing all 6 cases, others do not mention them at all, but start giving simple dialogs. Some seem to be addressing 6th grade students and others seem to be addressing very academically motivated graduate students, and the approaches are all so different. It was very slow going for a while because each book had me doing something different. Now I have found which books I like best and use them for my "base" and use the others as extra sources for reinforcing things or for excercises-in other words, I  don't follow the others chapter-by-chapter, but use them when I need extra practice or clarification. And that is the main advantage of this oddball method of mine- the clarification. I feel fortunate to have   many books because sometimes the explanation in one about a topic is  really mystifying. And in the next, I still don't understand it. But in another, the author will have explained that same thing in a different way and it just hits me the right way and suddenly I understand! It is like having several people explain something to me, and finally one explains it in a way which I can understand.

    I hope something of what I have written is helpful, somehow. I am having so much fun studying this on my own, that I rather envy kids who get to study  it at a college or university and who have lots of people around them who also love the language-that must really be fantastic!

Sincerely,

 Nola G.
 California
P.S. I know this will sound crazy,  but it really helps to keep a grammar book in THE BATHROOM. I have found answers to many questions in there! 







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From ewb2 at CORNELL.EDU  Sun Apr  6 02:13:44 2008
From: ewb2 at CORNELL.EDU (E Wayles Browne)
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 22:13:44 -0400
Subject: language maintenance-this is long, so get a cup of tea!
In-Reply-To: <005301c89782$3b633840$2101a8c0@Nola>
Message-ID: <SAT.5.APR.2008.221344.0400.>

I'd like to second the suggestions below. One rapid way to find
things you'll want to read in Russian:
Choose something that you're really interested in, let's say,
basketball or tornadoes or Nashville.
Read about it in the English-language Wikipedia (fastest way
to get there: open Google and type
wiki basketball
and hit return).
Next look along the left-hand column on the Wikipedia page.
You will see Languages, and very frequently there will be a
link Russkij that you can click on. The Russian Wikipedia
article won't be an exact translation of the English article,
but it will give you something to read about basketball
(or tornadoes, or Nashville)! Most computers nowadays are willing
to show Russian Wiki pages in Russian.

I like the suggestion about getting multiple textbooks too.
A famous English teacher and translator in Croatia once told me
that he worked the same way on his English-language hobby as a
young schoolboy. He got all the English textbooks he could find
and went through them, one after the other. Things that didn't
stick the first time would become more and more familiar to him
when he encountered them in book after book. He suggested that
going once through 15 books would be better than going 15 times
through the same book.

Best wishes,
-- 
Wayles Browne, Assoc. Prof. of Linguistics
Department of Linguistics
Morrill Hall 220, Cornell University
Ithaca, New York 14853, U.S.A.

tel. 607-255-0712 (o), 607-273-3009 (h)
fax 607-255-2044 (write FOR W. BROWNE)
e-mail ewb2 at cornell.edu

>     On the  topic  of what students could do over the summer:  I think
> they should find something- a hobby, an obsession, a real love- that
> they normally are very interested in, and study new things about it in
> Russian. They can keep their textbooks and dictionaries around in case
> they need them, and  hopefully they will end up using those for
> reference-but NOT put pressure upon themselves to "keep up the
> Russian". They DO need to keep it up, of course,  but not with the
> attitude that that is what they are doing. They have to  do something
> FUN that they already like...and incorporate Russian into it.
> Examples: if it is sewing-then find out about Russian patterns and
> designs and sewing books-try to buy a Russian pattern and made
> something-they'd have to follow the directions in Russian..if it is a
> sport, watch it or read about it in Russian, join an online group or
> website dedicated to that sport, in Russian. If they love
> computers,make  a website in Russian. If someone  has a second
> computer, buy Russian Windows and install that and learn to use it....


>
>     Another thing I would like to mention is that because I am on my own,
> I have bought a variety of used textbooks. At first it was a little
> confusing because I could not really decide which to use as a base.
> Then I sort of worked out a system where I would pick one and go as
> far in that one as I can, then stop and take up another, and go as far
> as I can in that one, and so on. Over time, I would get back to the
> first one again and see that I have progressed and can now go much
> farther in that one..and so then I continue on again with them all. It
> was rough  in the beginning because after the authors finish with the
> usual introduction of alphabet and pronounciation rules, then anything
> goes. Some begin discussing all 6 cases, others do not mention them at
> all, but start giving simple dialogs. Some seem to be addressing 6th
> grade students and others seem to be addressing very academically
> motivated graduate students, and the approaches are all so different.
> It was very slow going for a while because each book had me doing
> something different. Now I have found which books I like best and use
> them for my "base" and use the others as extra sources for reinforcing
> things or for excercises-in other words, I  don't follow the others
> chapter-by-chapter, but use them when I need extra practice or
> clarification. And that is the main advantage of this oddball method
> of mine- the clarification. I feel fortunate to have   many books
> because sometimes the explanation in one about a topic is  really
> mystifying. And in the next, I still don't understand it. But in
> another, the author will have explained that same thing in a different
> way and it just hits me the right way and suddenly I understand! It is
> like having several people explain something to me, and finally one
> explains it in a way which I can understand.
> ...

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From resco at UMICH.EDU  Sun Apr  6 02:49:02 2008
From: resco at UMICH.EDU (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Alina_Makin?=)
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 21:49:02 -0500
Subject: language maintenance over the summer?
Message-ID: <SAT.5.APR.2008.214902.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

I agree that summer language maintenance should be based on fun and 
*interactive* activities.  My elementary and intermediate students this year 
had a riot corresponding with Russians at a basic level through 
http://www.vkontakte.ru website.  Beyond reading and writing activities at 
the personal correspondence level, they also got hooked up with some of their 
regular e-pals through skype and got a chance to talk, which was extremely 
popular.  Obviously, you need to warn them about possible abuse of internet 
communication but this generation of learners seems to have got it down very 
well by now.  They all report how much fun and language learning they got 
through it, so I am kind of inclined to suggest it as one of several possible 
summer activities.  Obviously, there is no singular answer to this question and 
one should suggest a variety of activities appropriate to every learning style 
and type of learner, or a mix of them.

Alina Makin
University of Michigan

 

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From ajda.kljun at GMAIL.COM  Sun Apr  6 09:51:43 2008
From: ajda.kljun at GMAIL.COM (Ajda Kljun)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 11:51:43 +0200
Subject: language maintenance over the summer?
In-Reply-To: <LISTSERV%200804052149027995.08A6@BAMA.UA.EDU>
Message-ID: <SUN.6.APR.2008.115143.0200.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Seelangers,

since several people have expressed interest in hearing the experiences of
people who are learning Russian by themselves, here are my two cents on
music and movies.

As far as learning Russian through music goes, here are my personal
experiences: I think the first Russian song I downloaded was Aquarium's
Chai. Apart from the repeating chorus, it only has six lines of text, so
it's no wonder I knew it by heart pretty quickly. Then I started to listen
to Zemfira and found out that there are English translations of several of
her songs on http://russmus.net/. I translated the rest of the songs with
the help of language translators such as http://translation.paralink.com/.
The English text often did not make much sense, but it helped me to get a
fast word-to-word translation without having to look up one word at a time.
The rest I tried to figure out by looking in various dictionaries I found
online. (Have I mentioned that I am the 'likes to climb high mountains' type
of learner? :)) I also love Kino and find Tsoi quite easy to understand.
Since I am a student of classical piano, I have some favorites the average
student might not share. For example, I printed out the complete text of
Boris Godunov in Russian and listened to the opera while reading what
they're actually saying. That was fun.

About Russian movies: I have really enjoyed some of Sokurov's movies. Often,
a sentence of the narrator is followed by lots of silence which gave me time
to realize what words he just said, repeat the sentence in my head and then
move on to the next sentence. Most of the time, I could actually enjoy the
movie already in the second viewing :) I also plan to watch his Russian Ark
with the help of the commentary on this site:
http://www.angelfire.com/ult/cmcdouga/arkhome.htm. Very excited about that!
Changing the genre completely - one time, my brother downloaded Blade Runner
dubbed in Russian (by accident), so we watched it together. The story is so
simple that we could mostly figure out what they were saying without
actually understanding the words. I guess watching Russian soap operas could
work in the same way.

One thing I have to mention though is the fact that my native tongue is
Slovene. So I already understood the way Slavic languages work when I
started to learn Russian, which probably made it a lot easier for me. But
from my experience in learning other languages - Italian, English and German
- I can say that lots of exposure worked in all cases. Also, I found out
that working with texts which really really interest me made me much more
motivated.

Kind regards,
Ajda Kljun.


2008/4/6, Alina Makin <resco at umich.edu>:
>
> I agree that summer language maintenance should be based on fun and
> *interactive* activities.  My elementary and intermediate students this
> year
> had a riot corresponding with Russians at a basic level through
> http://www.vkontakte.ru website.  Beyond reading and writing activities at
> the personal correspondence level, they also got hooked up with some of
> their
> regular e-pals through skype and got a chance to talk, which was extremely
> popular.  Obviously, you need to warn them about possible abuse of
> internet
> communication but this generation of learners seems to have got it down
> very
> well by now.  They all report how much fun and language learning they got
> through it, so I am kind of inclined to suggest it as one of several
> possible
> summer activities.  Obviously, there is no singular answer to this
> question and
> one should suggest a variety of activities appropriate to every learning
> style
> and type of learner, or a mix of them.
>
>
> Alina Makin
> University of Michigan
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

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From rar at SLAVIC.UMASS.EDU  Sun Apr  6 14:30:23 2008
From: rar at SLAVIC.UMASS.EDU (Robert A. Rothstein)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 10:30:23 -0400
Subject: kuda tsar' peshkom xodil
In-Reply-To: <8DC9B331-C71F-4F34-BD87-D2E57730534B@american.edu>
Message-ID: <SUN.6.APR.2008.103023.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Although I introduced the expression into the discussion of euphemisms 
in the form "...khodit peshkom," with the verb that would seem to be 
required by the rules of Russian grammar, I wonder if native speakers 
would agree with my contention that "idet" is also possible. In support 
of this I would argue that "ia idu tuda, kuda sam tsar' khodit peshkom" 
is simply a statement of fact, while "ia idu tuda, kuda sam tsar' idet 
peshkom" is a proverbial expression - and therefore potentially a poetic 
utterance in Jakobson's sense - with a consistent iambic rhythm and with 
the determinate verb making the expression more vivid.

I can't think of another such example involving the 
determinate/indeterminate opposition (the contrast between "ia kazhdyi 
den' khozhu na rabotu" and "ia kazhdyi den' idu na rabotu v 8 chasov" is 
not really parallel), but there are examples involving the 
perfective/imperfective opposition. In the "zhestokii romans" "Marusia 
otravilas'," for example, there's a line: "V bol'nitsu privozili i klali 
na krovat'."  Not repetition, not process, so why not 
"privezli...polozhili"? Presumably for vividness - it's as if we're 
witnessing the events.

Bob Rothstein

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From jschill at AMERICAN.EDU  Sun Apr  6 15:38:08 2008
From: jschill at AMERICAN.EDU (John Schillinger)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 11:38:08 -0400
Subject: language maintenance over the summer?
In-Reply-To: <a0a13f6b0804060251w73e4ad5av6d8ff68f8e80676c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.6.APR.2008.113808.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

	I agree with the "musical" approach.  Students really build  
vocabulary and pronunciation with music, and it's relatively painless.
	One of the most successful approaches I used (back in the day...) was  
in the last week of classes to give every student in my first year  
class a cassette tape recording with songs that were from various pop  
song collections, of the time,  such as the Soyuz/Союз series, with  
such titles as "Khochesh no molchish' "/"Хочешь но  
молчишь" and Marikhuana/ Марихуана (by Linda).  The  
songs had good repetition, catchy tunes and we translated them in  
class in the weeks prior to the end of the spring semester, so  
everyone was familiar with the content.  The students really did  
listen to them on their Walkmen over the summer, and it kept them  
involved in Russian.   Now with MP3 players and iPods, this would be  
even easier....


John Schillinger
Emeritus Prof. of Russian
American University

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From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM  Sun Apr  6 15:50:55 2008
From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 16:50:55 +0100
Subject: Platonov: Nalazhivat' razlichnye konflikty (UTF 8)
Message-ID: <SUN.6.APR.2008.165055.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear all,

Can anyone help with an ambiguity we are trying to preserve in the
following?

А Козлов тотчас-же начал падать пролетарской верой и захотел уйти внутрь
города, чтобы писать там опорачивающие заявления и налаживать различные
конфликты – с целью организационных достижений.

This conclusion of Pashkin’s left Kozlov without consolation.  He at once
began to falter in his proletarian faith and wanted to head off inside the
town, in order to write defamatory reports there and to arrange
(??налаживать) different conflicts with a view to organizational
achievements.

It should be unclear whether Kozlov is wishing to resolve these conflicts or
to stir them up.

I would also like to know whether anyone is able to read the Cyrillic in
this message (set to UTF 8) and not in the duplicate I am about to send (set
to Automatic).

Vsego dobrogo,

R.

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From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM  Sun Apr  6 15:52:52 2008
From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 16:52:52 +0100
Subject: Platonov: Nalazhivat' razlichnye konflikty (Automatic)
Message-ID: <SUN.6.APR.2008.165252.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear all,

Can anyone help with an ambiguity we are trying to preserve in the
following?

А Козлов тотчас-же начал падать пролетарской верой и захотел уйти внутрь
города, чтобы писать там опорачивающие заявления и налаживать различные
конфликты – с целью организационных достижений.

This conclusion of Pashkin’s left Kozlov without consolation.  He at once
began to falter in his proletarian faith and wanted to head off inside the
town, in order to write defamatory reports there and to arrange
(??налаживать) different conflicts with a view to organizational
achievements.

It should be unclear whether Kozlov is wishing to resolve these conflicts or
to stir them up.

I would also like to know whether anyone is able to read the Cyrillic in
this message (set to Automatic) and not in the previous one (set to UTF 8).

Vsego dobrogo,

R.

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From pstock at BRANDEIS.EDU  Sun Apr  6 16:05:26 2008
From: pstock at BRANDEIS.EDU (David Powelstock)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 12:05:26 -0400
Subject: Platonov: Nalazhivat' razlichnye konflikty (Automatic)
In-Reply-To: <C41EB064.2D5DF%kcf19@dial.pipex.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.6.APR.2008.120526.0400.>

How about "see to various conflicts"?
David P. 

-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
[mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Robert Chandler
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 11:53 AM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: [SEELANGS] Platonov: Nalazhivat' razlichnye konflikty (Automatic)

Dear all,

Can anyone help with an ambiguity we are trying to preserve in the
following?

А Козлов тотчас-же начал падать пролетарской верой и захотел уйти внутрь
города, чтобы писать там опорачивающие заявления и налаживать различные
конфликты – с целью организационных достижений.

This conclusion of Pashkin’s left Kozlov without consolation.  He at once
began to falter in his proletarian faith and wanted to head off inside the
town, in order to write defamatory reports there and to arrange
(??налаживать) different conflicts with a view to organizational
achievements.

It should be unclear whether Kozlov is wishing to resolve these conflicts or
to stir them up.

I would also like to know whether anyone is able to read the Cyrillic in
this message (set to Automatic) and not in the previous one (set to UTF 8).

Vsego dobrogo,

R.

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From pstock at BRANDEIS.EDU  Sun Apr  6 16:35:28 2008
From: pstock at BRANDEIS.EDU (David Powelstock)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 12:35:28 -0400
Subject: Platonov: Nalazhivat' razlichnye konflikty (Automatic)
In-Reply-To: <C41EB064.2D5DF%kcf19@dial.pipex.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.6.APR.2008.123528.0400.>

Dear Robert, and all,

I was able to read both messages. The one you set to UTF 8 came through as
UTF 8. The one set to Automatic came through as Windows Cyrillic (CP-1251).

However, using Outlook 2003, in the message set to UTF-8, I had to fiddle a
little. This seems to be a bug in Outlook, as I encounter it frequently.
I'll describe what I had to do, in case it might help some others read
Cyrillic messages they thought were unsalvagable.

When the message first arrived, the Cyrillic showed as question marks.
I opened the message, then clicked View > Encoding. There I could see that
Outlook had (correctly) marked the message as UTF-8. But the message still
read incorrectly! What I had to do was first, in that same Encoding menu,
select some other encoding, say Windows Cyrillic. Now the message looks like
a different kind of jibberish. However, if I go back into View > Encoding
and now select UTF-8 again, the Cyrillic will display correctly. If you're
trying this at home, you should now close the message and answer "yes" when
it asks if you want to save changes.

I'm not sure how to explain this bizarre behavior (Outlook's, not mine). I
believe it has something to do with configuration of my univ.'s mail server
configuration. In addition to separate settings within the client that
affect decoding of incoming and encoding of outgoing messages, Outlook also
has two types of data file types, on of which supports UTF more happily than
the other, and the server configuration affects which type Outlook uses. But
if any of you are using Outlook and getting messages where Cyrillic comes
out as question marks, I recommend that you try the procedure above. It's a
hassle, but at least you might get to read your message!

Best wishes,

David Powelstock



-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
[mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Robert Chandler
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 11:53 AM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: [SEELANGS] Platonov: Nalazhivat' razlichnye konflikty (Automatic)

Dear all,

Can anyone help with an ambiguity we are trying to preserve in the
following?

А Козлов тотчас-же начал падать пролетарской верой и захотел уйти внутрь
города, чтобы писать там опорачивающие заявления и налаживать различные
конфликты – с целью организационных достижений.

This conclusion of Pashkin’s left Kozlov without consolation.  He at once
began to falter in his proletarian faith and wanted to head off inside the
town, in order to write defamatory reports there and to arrange
(??налаживать) different conflicts with a view to organizational
achievements.

It should be unclear whether Kozlov is wishing to resolve these conflicts or
to stir them up.

I would also like to know whether anyone is able to read the Cyrillic in
this message (set to Automatic) and not in the previous one (set to UTF 8).

Vsego dobrogo,

R.

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From maberdy at GMAIL.COM  Sun Apr  6 17:19:40 2008
From: maberdy at GMAIL.COM (Michele A. Berdy)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 21:19:40 +0400
Subject: sub-titles
Message-ID: <SUN.6.APR.2008.211940.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Seelangers, o ye who know and see all...

Have any of you seen a multi-language film with sub-titles that distinguish between the languages spoken? If so, how did the sub-titles make the language distinction clear? Font? Italics? Other?

Feel free to send comments off list (this is fairly obscure...)
Thanks

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From colkitto at ROGERS.COM  Sun Apr  6 17:24:16 2008
From: colkitto at ROGERS.COM (Robert Orr)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 13:24:16 -0400
Subject: Platonov: Nalazhivat' razlichnye konflikty (Automatic)
Message-ID: <SUN.6.APR.2008.132416.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

I think David's come about as close as possible.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Powelstock" <pstock at BRANDEIS.EDU>
To: <SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Platonov: Nalazhivat' razlichnye konflikty 
(Automatic)


> How about "see to various conflicts"?
> David P.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Robert Chandler
> Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 11:53 AM
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: [SEELANGS] Platonov: Nalazhivat' razlichnye konflikty (Automatic)
>
> Dear all,
>
> Can anyone help with an ambiguity we are trying to preserve in the
> following?
>
> А Козлов тотчас-же начал падать пролетарской верой и захотел уйти внутрь
> города, чтобы писать там опорачивающие заявления и налаживать различные
> конфликты – с целью организационных достижений.
>
> This conclusion of Pashkin’s left Kozlov without consolation.  He at once
> began to falter in his proletarian faith and wanted to head off inside the
> town, in order to write defamatory reports there and to arrange
> (??налаживать) different conflicts with a view to organizational
> achievements.
>
> It should be unclear whether Kozlov is wishing to resolve these conflicts 
> or
> to stir them up.
>
> I would also like to know whether anyone is able to read the Cyrillic in
> this message (set to Automatic) and not in the previous one (set to UTF 
> 8).
>
> Vsego dobrogo,
>
> R.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> 

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From a.jameson2 at DSL.PIPEX.COM  Sun Apr  6 17:24:31 2008
From: a.jameson2 at DSL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 18:24:31 +0100
Subject: Sources on Russian (popular?) culture 1880-1910s
Message-ID: <SUN.6.APR.2008.182431.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

It's curious that there are so few books which contain the most obvious
information about Russian society before or after the Revolution. The
obvious everyday things were considered to be so obvious (in East and West)
that they did not need to be said.
The closest thing at undergraduate level to what you are seeking is probably
Ronald Hingley, RUSSIAN WRITERS AND SOCIETY IN THE 19th CENTURY London,
Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1977, Second Edition. (ISBN: 0297773755) 196pp. It
is a general description of the social background to Russian literature
under a clear set of headings. There's very likely to be an American
edition.
Another interesting title is Ronald Hingley. THE RUSSIAN MIND New York,
Scribner 1977, First Edition. (bookseller's blurb..) Hingley is the author
of more than 20 books on Russian literature, language, history and politics.
In this book he applies his broad knowledge of, and experience with Russians
in many different situations, exploring the phenomena of campus revolts,
women's lib, female political assassins, alcoholism, the cult of youth, and
more, during the Brezhnev era, before glasnost and perestroika. Included are
Reference Notes, Index to Reference Notes, and a general Index. viii, 307
pp.
Two other works contain background information to Russian studies, both by
Genevra Gerhart THE RUSSIAN'S WORLD. LIFE AND LANGUAGE (Slavica) and (with
Eloise M Boyle) THE RUSSIAN CONTEXT. THE CULTURE BEHIND THE LANGUAGE
(Slavica).

Andrew Jameson
Malvern UK


-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
[mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Francoise Rosset
Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 4:42 PM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: [SEELANGS] Sources on Russian (popular?) culture 1880-1910s

Dear SEELangers:

I'm looking for suggestions for an (undergraduate) non-Russian major student
asking about _general_ sources discussing "cultural norms," 
"attitudes toward gender, religion, education, the family" around Chekhov's
time.

The library has suggested books like _Natasha's Dance_ and _Cultural
Mythologies_. All my material on Chekhov is about stage history or
literature (including *Anton Chekhov and His Times*, which consists of
correspondence). I could also suggest various specific things on the "Woman
Question," Sofia Kovalevskaia, The Kreutzer Sonata, Kollontai etc. But I
don't have anything general to suggest and very little on religion,
education. Perhaps a few articles?

Thank you,
-FR
Francoise Rosset, Associate Professor
Chair, Russian and Russian Studies
Coordinator, German and Russian
Wheaton College
Norton, Massachusetts 02766
Office: (508) 285-3696
FAX:   (508) 286-3640

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From colkitto at ROGERS.COM  Sun Apr  6 17:32:09 2008
From: colkitto at ROGERS.COM (Robert Orr)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 13:32:09 -0400
Subject: language maintenance over the summer?
Message-ID: <SUN.6.APR.2008.133209.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

There's another thing students can try.

If you hear people speaking Russian in malls etc., do try practising - most 
people will be delighted to help -and who knows where it may lead.


--- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ajda Kljun" <ajda.kljun at GMAIL.COM>
To: <SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 5:51 AM
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] language maintenance over the summer?


> Dear Seelangers,
>
> since several people have expressed interest in hearing the experiences of
> people who are learning Russian by themselves, here are my two cents on
> music and movies.
>
> As far as learning Russian through music goes, here are my personal
> experiences: I think the first Russian song I downloaded was Aquarium's
> Chai. Apart from the repeating chorus, it only has six lines of text, so
> it's no wonder I knew it by heart pretty quickly. Then I started to listen
> to Zemfira and found out that there are English translations of several of
> her songs on http://russmus.net/. I translated the rest of the songs with
> the help of language translators such as http://translation.paralink.com/.
> The English text often did not make much sense, but it helped me to get a
> fast word-to-word translation without having to look up one word at a 
> time.
> The rest I tried to figure out by looking in various dictionaries I found
> online. (Have I mentioned that I am the 'likes to climb high mountains' 
> type
> of learner? :)) I also love Kino and find Tsoi quite easy to understand.
> Since I am a student of classical piano, I have some favorites the average
> student might not share. For example, I printed out the complete text of
> Boris Godunov in Russian and listened to the opera while reading what
> they're actually saying. That was fun.
>
> About Russian movies: I have really enjoyed some of Sokurov's movies. 
> Often,
> a sentence of the narrator is followed by lots of silence which gave me 
> time
> to realize what words he just said, repeat the sentence in my head and 
> then
> move on to the next sentence. Most of the time, I could actually enjoy the
> movie already in the second viewing :) I also plan to watch his Russian 
> Ark
> with the help of the commentary on this site:
> http://www.angelfire.com/ult/cmcdouga/arkhome.htm. Very excited about 
> that!
> Changing the genre completely - one time, my brother downloaded Blade 
> Runner
> dubbed in Russian (by accident), so we watched it together. The story is 
> so
> simple that we could mostly figure out what they were saying without
> actually understanding the words. I guess watching Russian soap operas 
> could
> work in the same way.
>
> One thing I have to mention though is the fact that my native tongue is
> Slovene. So I already understood the way Slavic languages work when I
> started to learn Russian, which probably made it a lot easier for me. But
> from my experience in learning other languages - Italian, English and 
> German
> - I can say that lots of exposure worked in all cases. Also, I found out
> that working with texts which really really interest me made me much more
> motivated.
>
> Kind regards,
> Ajda Kljun.
>
>
> 2008/4/6, Alina Makin <resco at umich.edu>:
>>
>> I agree that summer language maintenance should be based on fun and
>> *interactive* activities.  My elementary and intermediate students this
>> year
>> had a riot corresponding with Russians at a basic level through
>> http://www.vkontakte.ru website.  Beyond reading and writing activities 
>> at
>> the personal correspondence level, they also got hooked up with some of
>> their
>> regular e-pals through skype and got a chance to talk, which was 
>> extremely
>> popular.  Obviously, you need to warn them about possible abuse of
>> internet
>> communication but this generation of learners seems to have got it down
>> very
>> well by now.  They all report how much fun and language learning they got
>> through it, so I am kind of inclined to suggest it as one of several
>> possible
>> summer activities.  Obviously, there is no singular answer to this
>> question and
>> one should suggest a variety of activities appropriate to every learning
>> style
>> and type of learner, or a mix of them.
>>
>>
>> Alina Makin
>> University of Michigan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>>
>
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> 

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From pr52 at CORNELL.EDU  Sun Apr  6 17:41:49 2008
From: pr52 at CORNELL.EDU (Philip Robinson)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 13:41:49 -0400
Subject: Platonov: Nalazhivat' razlichnye konflikty (Automatic)
In-Reply-To: <C41EB064.2D5DF%kcf19@dial.pipex.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.6.APR.2008.134149.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Hello Robert,

I was able to read the Cyrillic in both messages 
via our university web-based mail client 
(SquirrelMail), in Firefox (defaulting to Western 
ISO-8859-1 encoding, but probably intelligently 
guessing the correct encodings for your two messages).

However, the Cyrillic messages came out as 
different kinds of gibberish in our university 
"fat client" Eudora reader.  So when I feel like 
catching up on SEELANGS, I pop open the browser 
and say a prayer (which usually works out!).

Best,

Phil Robinson

At 11:52 AM 4/6/2008, you wrote:
>Dear all,
>
>Can anyone help with an ambiguity we are trying to preserve in the
>following?
>
>À Êîçëîâ òîò÷àñ-æå íà÷àë ïàäàòü ïðîëåòàðñêîé âåðîé è çàõîòåë óéòè âíóòðü
>ãîðîäà, ÷òîáû ïèñàòü òàì îïîðà÷èâàþùèå çàÿâëåíèÿ è íàëàæèâàòü ðàçëè÷íûå
>êîíôëèêòû ­ ñ öåëüþ îðãàíèçàöèîííûõ äîñòèæåíèé.
>
>This conclusion of Pashkin’s left Kozlov without consolation.  He at once
>began to falter in his proletarian faith and wanted to head off inside the
>town, in order to write defamatory reports there and to arrange
>(??íàëàæèâàòü) different conflicts with a view to organizational
>achievements.
>
>It should be unclear whether Kozlov is wishing to resolve these conflicts or
>to stir them up.
>
>I would also like to know whether anyone is able to read the Cyrillic in
>this message (set to Automatic) and not in the previous one (set to UTF 8).
>
>Vsego dobrogo,
>
>R.
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From colkitto at ROGERS.COM  Sun Apr  6 17:53:10 2008
From: colkitto at ROGERS.COM (Robert Orr)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 13:53:10 -0400
Subject: sub-titles
Message-ID: <SUN.6.APR.2008.135310.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

I can't remember if they did this in the movie in question, but you might 
want to check out "Solomon and Gaynor", with extensive dialogue in English, 
Welsh, and Yiddish (the latter two subtitled).


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michele A. Berdy" <maberdy at GMAIL.COM>
To: <SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 1:19 PM
Subject: [SEELANGS] sub-titles


Seelangers, o ye who know and see all...

Have any of you seen a multi-language film with sub-titles that distinguish 
between the languages spoken? If so, how did the sub-titles make the 
language distinction clear? Font? Italics? Other?

Feel free to send comments off list (this is fairly obscure...)
Thanks

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From k.r.hauge at ILOS.UIO.NO  Sun Apr  6 17:53:58 2008
From: k.r.hauge at ILOS.UIO.NO (=?UTF-8?B?S2pldGlsIFLDpSBIYXVnZQ==?=)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 19:53:58 +0200
Subject: sub-titles
In-Reply-To: <00b701c8980a$6eec1640$b59bc10a@Sony>
Message-ID: <SUN.6.APR.2008.195358.0200.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Michele A. Berdy wrote:
> Seelangers, o ye who know and see all...
> 
> Have any of you seen a multi-language film with sub-titles that distinguish between the languages spoken? If so, how did the sub-titles make the language distinction clear? Font? Italics? Other?

I cannot recall any specific cases, but there is an idea/distant memory 
at the back of my head that it would be indicated by colour: yellow, 
while main-language subtitles usually are in white.

-- 
--- Kjetil Rå Hauge, U. of Oslo
--- tel. +47/22856710, fax +1/5084372444

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From ewb2 at CORNELL.EDU  Sun Apr  6 17:59:39 2008
From: ewb2 at CORNELL.EDU (E Wayles Browne)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 13:59:39 -0400
Subject: Platonov: Nalazhivat' razlichnye konflikty (Automatic)
In-Reply-To: <C41EB064.2D5DF%kcf19@dial.pipex.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.6.APR.2008.135939.0400.>

I could read the Cyrillic in both messages (using Safari
on a Macintosh to read Webmail at Cornell University).

However, I see that the Cyrillic has disappeared in what
my program copied below from your original message (instead it's
all Latin letters with diacritical marks).

As for a good ambiguous verb, what about
"to unharness various conflicts" or "to unhitch
various conflicts"? "Lend a hand to various
conflicts"? "Disengage"? "Take various conflicts in hand"?

-- 
Wayles Browne, Assoc. Prof. of Linguistics
Department of Linguistics
Morrill Hall 220, Cornell University
Ithaca, New York 14853, U.S.A.

tel. 607-255-0712 (o), 607-273-3009 (h)
fax 607-255-2044 (write FOR W. BROWNE)
e-mail ewb2 at cornell.edu

> Dear all,
>
> Can anyone help with an ambiguity we are trying to preserve in the
> following?
>
> À Êîçëîâ òîò÷àñ-æå íà÷àë ïàäàòü ïðîëåòàðñêîé âåðîé è çàõîòåë óéòè âíóòðü
> ãîðîäà, ÷òîáû ïèñàòü òàì îïîðà÷èâàþùèå çàÿâëåíèÿ è íàëàæèâàòü ðàçëè÷íûå
> êîíôëèêòû – ñ öåëüþ îðãàíèçàöèîííûõ äîñòèæåíèé.
>
> This conclusion of Pashkin’s left Kozlov without consolation.  He at once
> began to falter in his proletarian faith and wanted to head off inside the
> town, in order to write defamatory reports there and to arrange
> (??íàëàæèâàòü) different conflicts with a view to organizational
> achievements.
>
> It should be unclear whether Kozlov is wishing to resolve these conflicts
> or
> to stir them up.
>
> I would also like to know whether anyone is able to read the Cyrillic in
> this message (set to Automatic) and not in the previous one (set to UTF
> 8).
>
> Vsego dobrogo,
>
> R.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

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From sbauckus at EARTHLINK.NET  Sun Apr  6 18:11:27 2008
From: sbauckus at EARTHLINK.NET (Susan Bauckus)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 11:11:27 -0700
Subject: language maintenance-this is long, so get a cup of tea!
Message-ID: <SUN.6.APR.2008.111127.0700.>

Thank you, Nola, for your inspired ideas. I wonder if your suggestion of
asking for ideas for independent learning would be a good in-class project,
or series of projects, during the first year of classroom study. Students
could be assigned, with some guidelines and support, to find a few
activities and areas of inquiry of interest to them, and then have a
general discussion about what they found out and what they might like to do
on their own, with the understanding that anything they did would be
worthwhile. 

Susie


> [Original Message]
> From: Herself <oothappam at EARTHLINK.NET>
> To: <SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU>
> Date: 4/5/2008 6:05:22 PM
> Subject: [SEELANGS] language maintenance-this is long, so get a cup of
tea!
>
>     On the  topic  of what students could do over the summer:  I think
they should find something- a hobby, an obsession, a real love- that they
normally are very interested in, and study new things about it in Russian.
They can keep their textbooks and dictionaries around in case they need
them, and  hopefully they will end up using those for reference-but NOT put
pressure upon themselves to "keep up the Russian". They DO need to keep it
up, of course,  but not with the attitude that that is what they are doing.
They have to  do something FUN that they already like...and incorporate
Russian into it. Examples: if it is sewing-then find out about Russian
patterns and designs and sewing books-try to buy a Russian pattern and made
something-they'd have to follow the directions in Russian..if it is a
sport, watch it or read about it in Russian, join an online group or
website dedicated to that sport, in Russian. If they love computers,make  a
website in Russian. If someone  has a second computer, buy Russian Windows
and install that and learn to use it. 
>     Students might enjoy this whole question as a summer assignment. It
might be fun to give  students who plan to continue in Russian and who will
be back in the fall this assignment for the summer :  
>                        "Help us find ideas of how students can continue
learning Russian over the summer. Find everything you can in any genre of
media you can, and as you go through your summer, keep a list of things you
found that were fun and also got you thinking about/listening
to/speaking/writing/reading/thinking  in Russian. When you come back in the
autumn, a prize will be awarded to the student with the most useful or long
list--or the list containing the most things that are so useful that we can
incorporate them into our suggested activities".
>  The prize could be something like 2 tickets to a museum exhibit, play,
film, DDT concert or something Russian-related.(If it was me, I'd work hard
to get those DDT tickets!!)
>
>     I am studying on my own and so there is no summer break for me. But I
have noticed things about this studying of Russian. One is that I do need a
break sometimes, despite my high motivation for learning this language. And
with languages, when you are away from the material, you will forget  and
then have to re-learn things again later. So, realizing this, I decided to
make a personal rule for myself: Do something each day, anything, as long 
as it is in Russian. Just something! So when I feel burnt-out from these
grammar books, I do one of the following things: Watch a Russian film (of
course!), watch Russian TV(I have DishNetwork and a few Russian channels.
Watching the news is fun, especially because one of my daughters has  now
"fallen in love" with one of the Russian reporters!  And I love one
particular TV show where a taxi driver picks up people who then become
contestants on the show and have to answer questions during the ride for a
prize. I love seeing the views of Moscow through the cab window, hearing
the popular tunes they play, and observing the behavior of the passengers
and trying to understand the words. ) Browse Russian websites. Use
Google.ru. Listen to Russian songs and get the Russian lyrics and try to
sing along-this is very good! Memorize short Russian poems for children.
Read children's tales. Watch Russian cartoons. Try to cook a recipe from a
Russian cookbook. Look at www.Russiantable.com and decide what chocolates I
want to order and see how I like them. Look at Russian recipe and cooking
websites! Read recipes. Talk to people on Skype who want to practice
Russian or who prefer to speak Russian. Listen to audio files of Винни
пух and read along with the text and try to understand. Watch ridiculous
videos on youtube which are in Russian. 
>     I stop doing something if I start to feel bored, and then go to
something completely different.Even if I am ill, I find something! Listen
to my little mp3 player while in bed, to Pimsleur lessons, or to Russian
songs.
>  
>     I realize that nothing here is new to any of you. I am sure you are
aware of many more things than I've found! And it seems there is an endless
universe of great "Russian stuff" on the internet and in other media.(And I
am sooooo glad!)
>  As long as I follow my self-imposed personal rule, I'm ok. I end up
absorbing things even when I don't realize it. Later I will find a word and
remember that I saw it already somewhere. I might not remember where, but
it is familiar. Doing this every day has taken the strangeness away from
Russian for me. It all seems familiar and comfortable and not so
intimidating. And I like that feeling of joy that I get when something that
seemed unimportant turns up later in a grammar book and I already saw it or
heard it before and it is easier to learn because of that. And memories
need connections to make them really stick. I am at the point now where
this does not feel like drudgery anymore. It is more fun because I have
built up a little foundation  of things that can be connected to, in my
brain. New things I study slways seem to click in there somehow because of
something I saw somewhere before.It is all becoming more meaningful. (And
it may also have something to do with that "Russian language learning
curve")
>
>     Another thing I would like to mention is that because I am on my own,
I have bought a variety of used textbooks. At first it was a little
confusing because I could not really decide which to use as a base. Then I
sort of worked out a system where I would pick one and go as far in that
one as I can, then stop and take up another, and go as far as I can in that
one, and so on. Over time, I would get back to the first one again and see
that I have progressed and can now go much farther in that one..and so then
I continue on again with them all. It was rough  in the beginning because
after the authors finish with the usual introduction of alphabet and
pronounciation rules, then anything goes. Some begin discussing all 6
cases, others do not mention them at all, but start giving simple dialogs.
Some seem to be addressing 6th grade students and others seem to be
addressing very academically motivated graduate students, and the
approaches are all so different. It was very slow going for a while because
each book had me doing something different. Now I have found which books I
like best and use them for my "base" and use the others as extra sources
for reinforcing things or for excercises-in other words, I  don't follow
the others chapter-by-chapter, but use them when I need extra practice or
clarification. And that is the main advantage of this oddball method of
mine- the clarification. I feel fortunate to have   many books because
sometimes the explanation in one about a topic is  really mystifying. And
in the next, I still don't understand it. But in another, the author will
have explained that same thing in a different way and it just hits me the
right way and suddenly I understand! It is like having several people
explain something to me, and finally one explains it in a way which I can
understand.
>
>     I hope something of what I have written is helpful, somehow. I am
having so much fun studying this on my own, that I rather envy kids who get
to study  it at a college or university and who have lots of people around
them who also love the language-that must really be fantastic!
>
> Sincerely,
>
>  Nola G.
>  California
> P.S. I know this will sound crazy,  but it really helps to keep a grammar
book in THE BATHROOM. I have found answers to many questions in there! 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

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From Franssuasso at HOTMAIL.COM  Sun Apr  6 18:29:14 2008
From: Franssuasso at HOTMAIL.COM (Frans Suasso)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 20:29:14 +0200
Subject: sub-titles
Message-ID: <SUN.6.APR.2008.202914.0200.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Depending on the system you use for subtitling, you can use different colors 
e.g. yellow and white.

There ios no real need fot that however: the audience knows it is aonother 
language, because they hear it and they see another speaker.

Frans Suasso

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michele A. Berdy" <maberdy at GMAIL.COM>
To: <SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 7:19 PM
Subject: [SEELANGS] sub-titles


Seelangers, o ye who know and see all...

Have any of you seen a multi-language film with sub-titles that distinguish 
between the languages spoken? If so, how did the sub-titles make the 
language distinction clear? Font? Italics? Other?

Feel free to send comments off list (this is fairly obscure...)
Thanks

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From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM  Sun Apr  6 18:41:10 2008
From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 14:41:10 -0400
Subject: Platonov: Nalazhivat' razlichnye konflikty (Automatic)
In-Reply-To: <C41EB064.2D5DF%kcf19@dial.pipex.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.6.APR.2008.144110.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Robert Chandler wrote:

> Dear all,
> 
> Can anyone help with an ambiguity we are trying to preserve in the
> following?
> 
> А Козлов тотчас-же начал падать пролетарской верой и захотел уйти внутрь
> города, чтобы писать там опорачивающие заявления и налаживать различные
> конфликты – с целью организационных достижений.
> 
> This conclusion of Pashkin’s left Kozlov without consolation.  He at once
> began to falter in his proletarian faith and wanted to head off inside the
> town, in order to write defamatory reports there and to arrange
> (??налаживать) different conflicts with a view to organizational
> achievements.
> 
> It should be unclear whether Kozlov is wishing to resolve these conflicts or
> to stir them up.
> 
> I would also like to know whether anyone is able to read the Cyrillic in
> this message (set to Automatic) and not in the previous one (set to UTF 8).

No trouble whatsoever with either message. Unicode (UTF-8) and Cyrillic 
(Windows 1251) are both fine by me.

-- 
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
pbg translations, inc.
"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
http://pbg-translations.com

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From jerry3 at ROADRUNNER.COM  Sun Apr  6 19:02:53 2008
From: jerry3 at ROADRUNNER.COM (Jerry Katsell)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 12:02:53 -0700
Subject: Privet!
Message-ID: <SUN.6.APR.2008.120253.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

 

 

            Dear All,

 

My dad, who left Russia (Irkutsk) with part of our family when he was
about ten (then two years in Harbin and Japan before coming to the US in
1925), remembered snatches of songs that I believe are from perhaps the
provincial Russian theater or operettas. I wonder if someone out there
among the Seelangtsy might identify them:

 

1.      Marusia, ty, Marusia

Otkryvai tvoi glaza,   

No doktor otvechaet,            

Davnym davno umerla.

 

 

2.      Ia Vam skazhu

Odin sekret,

Kogo liubliu,

Togo i net.

 

 

            Thanks,

 

            Jerry Katsell


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From hhalva at MINDSPRING.COM  Sun Apr  6 19:18:25 2008
From: hhalva at MINDSPRING.COM (Helen Halva)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 15:18:25 -0400
Subject: Platonov: Nalazhivat' razlichnye konflikty (Automatic)
In-Reply-To: <010c01c8980b$0ad36ef0$a095f163@yourg9zekrp5zf>
Message-ID: <SUN.6.APR.2008.151825.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Conceivably "negotiate various conflicts"?

HH


Robert Orr wrote:
> I think David's come about as close as possible.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Powelstock" 
> <pstock at BRANDEIS.EDU>
> To: <SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU>
> Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 12:05 PM
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Platonov: Nalazhivat' razlichnye konflikty 
> (Automatic)
>
>
>> How about "see to various conflicts"?
>> David P.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
>> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Robert Chandler
>> Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 11:53 AM
>> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
>> Subject: [SEELANGS] Platonov: Nalazhivat' razlichnye konflikty 
>> (Automatic)
>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> Can anyone help with an ambiguity we are trying to preserve in the
>> following?
>>
>> � ������ ������-�� ����� ������ ������������ ����� � ������� ���� ������
>> ������, ����� ������ ��� ������������� ��������� � ���������� ���������
>> ��������� � � ����� ��������������� ����������.
>>
>> This conclusion of Pashkin�s left Kozlov without consolation.  He at 
>> once
>> began to falter in his proletarian faith and wanted to head off 
>> inside the
>> town, in order to write defamatory reports there and to arrange
>> (??����������) different conflicts with a view to organizational
>> achievements.
>>
>> It should be unclear whether Kozlov is wishing to resolve these 
>> conflicts or
>> to stir them up.
>>
>> I would also like to know whether anyone is able to read the Cyrillic in
>> this message (set to Automatic) and not in the previous one (set to 
>> UTF 8).
>>
>> Vsego dobrogo,
>>
>> R.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>
>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>
>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>
>>
>>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

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From esjogren at NC.RR.COM  Sun Apr  6 19:19:27 2008
From: esjogren at NC.RR.COM (Ernest Sjogren)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 15:19:27 -0400
Subject: Platonov: Nalazhivat' razlichnye konflikty (Automatic)
Message-ID: <SUN.6.APR.2008.151927.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

> However, I see that the Cyrillic has disappeared in what my program copied below from your original message (instead it's all Latin letters with diacritical marks).

To see it as Cyrillic characters again, set the encoding of your e-mail reader (whichever one it may be) to Windows 1251 (Cyrillic).

Ernie Sjogren


...

>> А Козлов тотчас-же начал падать пролетарской верой и захотел уйти внутрь
>> города, чтобы писать там опорачивающие заявления и налаживать различные
>> конфликты – с целью организационных достижений.
>>

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From pstock at BRANDEIS.EDU  Sun Apr  6 19:28:47 2008
From: pstock at BRANDEIS.EDU (David Powelstock)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 15:28:47 -0400
Subject: Platonov: Nalazhivat' razlichnye konflikty (Automatic)
In-Reply-To: <47F91946.5040108@pbg-translations.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.6.APR.2008.152847.0400.>

Paul, could you please say what program and operating system you're using?
Thanks!
David 

-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
[mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul B. Gallagher
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 2:41 PM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Platonov: Nalazhivat' razlichnye konflikty
(Automatic)

Robert Chandler wrote:

> Dear all,
> 
> Can anyone help with an ambiguity we are trying to preserve in the 
> following?
> 
> А Козлов тотчас-же начал падать пролетарской верой и захотел уйти 
> внутрь города, чтобы писать там опорачивающие заявления и налаживать 
> различные конфликты – с целью организационных достижений.
> 
> This conclusion of Pashkin’s left Kozlov without consolation.  He at 
> once began to falter in his proletarian faith and wanted to head off 
> inside the town, in order to write defamatory reports there and to 
> arrange
> (??налаживать) different conflicts with a view to organizational 
> achievements.
> 
> It should be unclear whether Kozlov is wishing to resolve these 
> conflicts or to stir them up.
> 
> I would also like to know whether anyone is able to read the Cyrillic 
> in this message (set to Automatic) and not in the previous one (set to UTF
8).

No trouble whatsoever with either message. Unicode (UTF-8) and Cyrillic
(Windows 1251) are both fine by me.

--
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
pbg translations, inc.
"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
http://pbg-translations.com

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From grylkova at UFL.EDU  Sun Apr  6 19:31:00 2008
From: grylkova at UFL.EDU (Galina Rylkova)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 15:31:00 -0400
Subject: Platonov: Nalazhivat' razlichnye konflikty (Automatic)
In-Reply-To: <008301c8981c$6ffc6fa0$0501a8c0@inspiron>
Message-ID: <SUN.6.APR.2008.153100.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

How about "to set up conflicts"?
Galina Rylkova

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From brooksjef at GMAIL.COM  Sun Apr  6 19:43:15 2008
From: brooksjef at GMAIL.COM (jeff brooks)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 15:43:15 -0400
Subject: Privet!
In-Reply-To: <000001c89818$d1be5d10$6401a8c0@D569F421>
Message-ID: <SUN.6.APR.2008.154315.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

The first can be found in many pre-revolutionary songbooks.  There were
hundreds of these published in the last decade of Imperial Russia. These
were urban songs particularly popular with the lower classes but familiar to
others as well.

Here are some titles, publishers, and dates of publication.


любила маруса дгуга своего. балаов. 1910. XVIс



шурин, а. я., маруса отравиласъ. бедная швейка. одесса. тип. я.х. шеран.

   1913. 16с



Маруся отравилась, сытин. 1912



Маруся отравилась       сытин 1915



Маруся отравилась      максимов  1911



Cheers,



Jeffrey Brooks




On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 3:02 PM, Jerry Katsell <jerry3 at roadrunner.com> wrote:

>
>
>
>
>            Dear All,
>
>
>
> My dad, who left Russia (Irkutsk) with part of our family when he was
> about ten (then two years in Harbin and Japan before coming to the US in
> 1925), remembered snatches of songs that I believe are from perhaps the
> provincial Russian theater or operettas. I wonder if someone out there
> among the Seelangtsy might identify them:
>
>
>
> 1.      Marusia, ty, Marusia
>
> Otkryvai tvoi glaza,
>
> No doktor otvechaet,
>
> Davnym davno umerla.
>
>
>
>
>
> 2.      Ia Vam skazhu
>
> Odin sekret,
>
> Kogo liubliu,
>
> Togo i net.
>
>
>
>
>
>            Thanks,
>
>
>
>            Jerry Katsell
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>


From pashuk at KNOLOGY.NET  Sun Apr  6 20:12:17 2008
From: pashuk at KNOLOGY.NET (Oleg Pashuk)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 16:12:17 -0400
Subject: Platonov: Nalazhivat' razlichnye konflikty (UTF 8)
Message-ID: <SUN.6.APR.2008.161217.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Here, налаживать means "to settle."

Good luck,
Oleg Pashuk

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Chandler" <kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM>
To: <SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 11:50 AM
Subject: [SEELANGS] Platonov: Nalazhivat' razlichnye konflikty (UTF 8)


Dear all,

Can anyone help with an ambiguity we are trying to preserve in the
following?

А Козлов тотчас-же начал падать пролетарской верой и захотел уйти внутрь
города, чтобы писать там опорачивающие заявления и налаживать различные
конфликты – с целью организационных достижений.

This conclusion of Pashkin’s left Kozlov without consolation.  He at once
began to falter in his proletarian faith and wanted to head off inside the
town, in order to write defamatory reports there and to arrange
(??налаживать) different conflicts with a view to organizational
achievements.

It should be unclear whether Kozlov is wishing to resolve these conflicts or
to stir them up.

I would also like to know whether anyone is able to read the Cyrillic in
this message (set to UTF 8) and not in the duplicate I am about to send (set
to Automatic).

Vsego dobrogo,

R.

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From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU  Sun Apr  6 21:03:48 2008
From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 17:03:48 -0400
Subject: Privet!
In-Reply-To: <000001c89818$d1be5d10$6401a8c0@D569F421>
Message-ID: <SUN.6.APR.2008.170348.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Here it is: http://ngavan.msk.ru/gan/a01/b91/c0000/d0858/ind.shtml

On Apr 6, 2008, at 3:02 PM, Jerry Katsell wrote:

>
>
> 1.      Marusia, ty, Marusia
>
> Otkryvai tvoi glaza,
>
> No doktor otvechaet,
>
> Davnym davno umerla.
>
>
> 2.      Ia Vam skazhu
>
> Odin sekret,
>
> Kogo liubliu,
>
> Togo i net.
>
>

Alina Israeli
LFS, American University
4400 Massachusetts Ave., NW
Washington DC. 20016
(202) 885-2387 	
fax (202) 885-1076
aisrael at american.edu




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From aspektor at FAS.HARVARD.EDU  Sun Apr  6 23:46:16 2008
From: aspektor at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Alex Spektor)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 19:46:16 -0400
Subject: Privet!
In-Reply-To: <e91a66240804061243o2722183p5137e78d6fe2588b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.6.APR.2008.194616.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

the second can be found on the recent Auktsyon album "Chainik vina" sung by
Khvostenko.

s

Quoting jeff brooks <brooksjef at GMAIL.COM>:

> The first can be found in many pre-revolutionary songbooks.  There were
> hundreds of these published in the last decade of Imperial Russia. These
> were urban songs particularly popular with the lower classes but familiar to
> others as well.
>
> Here are some titles, publishers, and dates of publication.
>
>
> ÌÀÂÉÌÁ ÍÁÒÕÓÁ ÄÇÕÇÁ Ó×ÏÅÇÏ. ÂÁÌÁÏ×. 1910. XVIÓ
>
>
>
> ÛÕÒÉÎ, Á. Ñ., ÍÁÒÕÓÁ ÏÔÒÁ×ÉÌÁÓß. ÂÅÄÎÁÑ Û×ÅÊËÁ. ÏÄÅÓÓÁ. ÔÉÐ. Ñ.È. ÛÅÒÁÎ.
>
>    1913. 16Ó
>
>
>
> íÁÒÕÓÑ ÏÔÒÁ×ÉÌÁÓØ, ÓÙÔÉÎ. 1912
>
>
>
> íÁÒÕÓÑ ÏÔÒÁ×ÉÌÁÓØ       ÓÙÔÉÎ 1915
>
>
>
> íÁÒÕÓÑ ÏÔÒÁ×ÉÌÁÓØ      ÍÁËÓÉÍÏ×  1911
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Jeffrey Brooks
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 3:02 PM, Jerry Katsell <jerry3 at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >            Dear All,
> >
> >
> >
> > My dad, who left Russia (Irkutsk) with part of our family when he was
> > about ten (then two years in Harbin and Japan before coming to the US in
> > 1925), remembered snatches of songs that I believe are from perhaps the
> > provincial Russian theater or operettas. I wonder if someone out there
> > among the Seelangtsy might identify them:
> >
> >
> >
> > 1.      Marusia, ty, Marusia
> >
> > Otkryvai tvoi glaza,
> >
> > No doktor otvechaet,
> >
> > Davnym davno umerla.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 2.      Ia Vam skazhu
> >
> > Odin sekret,
> >
> > Kogo liubliu,
> >
> > Togo i net.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >            Thanks,
> >
> >
> >
> >            Jerry Katsell
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> >  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> >                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
>

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From rar at SLAVIC.UMASS.EDU  Mon Apr  7 00:16:29 2008
From: rar at SLAVIC.UMASS.EDU (Robert A. Rothstein)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 20:16:29 -0400
Subject: Privet!
In-Reply-To: <000001c89818$d1be5d10$6401a8c0@D569F421>
Message-ID: <SUN.6.APR.2008.201629.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Jerry Katsell wrote:
>  I wonder if someone out there
> among the Seelangtsy might identify them:
>
>  
> 2.      Ia Vam skazhu
>
> Odin sekret,
>
> Kogo liubliu,
>
> Togo i net.
>   

There's one version at 
http://www.shansonprofi.ru/archiv/books/russhanson/p5.html.

Bob Rothstein

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From klinela at COMCAST.NET  Mon Apr  7 00:33:04 2008
From: klinela at COMCAST.NET (Laura Kline)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 20:33:04 -0400
Subject: Reading Russian Text?
In-Reply-To: <LISTSERV%200804052149027995.08A6@BAMA.UA.EDU>
Message-ID: <SUN.6.APR.2008.203304.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Can anyone recommend a good textbook for students who want to focus on
developing reading skills only? They would be starting at the beginning
level.
Thank you!
Laura 



Laura Kline, Ph.D
Senior Lecturer in Russian
Department of German and Slavic Studies
Wayne State University
443 Manoogian Hall
906 W. Warren
Detroit, MI  48202
fax: 313-577-3266
af7585 at wayne.edu

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From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM  Mon Apr  7 00:51:54 2008
From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 20:51:54 -0400
Subject: Platonov: Nalazhivat' razlichnye konflikty (Automatic)
In-Reply-To: <008301c8981c$6ffc6fa0$0501a8c0@inspiron>
Message-ID: <SUN.6.APR.2008.205154.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Resending because I didn't realize David Powelstock had redirected 
replies to his personal address.

David Powelstock wrote:

> Paul, could you please say what program and operating system you're using?
> Thanks!

You can see what email program anyone is using (unless it's a webmail)
by examining the source code of the message. It's usually listed as
"X-mailer," sometimes as "User-Agent:"

In my case, it's:
	User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0;
	en-US; rv:1.7.13) Gecko/20060414
In human language, that's Mozilla 1.7.13. My OS is Win2K SP4.

Then once it gets to SEELANGS, it gets remailed by:
	X-Mailer: L-Soft HDMail 1.1-3

Your message identifies your email program thus:
	X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11

John Langran's invitation to edit Ruslan 1 the other day said:
	X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180

And so forth.

-- 
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
pbg translations, inc.
"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
http://pbg-translations.com

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From emilka at MAC.COM  Mon Apr  7 03:51:44 2008
From: emilka at MAC.COM (Emily Saunders)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 20:51:44 -0700
Subject: sub-titles
In-Reply-To: <47F90E36.7010404@ilos.uio.no>
Message-ID: <SUN.6.APR.2008.205144.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

A good film to check with would be Kukushka/The Cuckoo, since the film  
has three different languages (Russian, Finnish, and Lapp) and the  
main point of the movie is that the actors don't understand each  
other.  How that movie handles subtitles could be quite illustrative.   
I don't have a copy about me or I'd put it on and see (I saw it on  
Russian television with subtitles for only two of the languages and I  
don't remember how they handled them).

Regards,

Emily Saunders


On Apr 6, 2008, at 10:53 AM, Kjetil Rå Hauge wrote:

> Michele A. Berdy wrote:
>> Seelangers, o ye who know and see all...
>> Have any of you seen a multi-language film with sub-titles that  
>> distinguish between the languages spoken? If so, how did the sub- 
>> titles make the language distinction clear? Font? Italics? Other?
>
> I cannot recall any specific cases, but there is an idea/distant  
> memory at the back of my head that it would be indicated by colour:  
> yellow, while main-language subtitles usually are in white.
>
> -- 
> --- Kjetil Rå Hauge, U. of Oslo
> --- tel. +47/22856710, fax +1/5084372444
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                   http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

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From jerry3 at ROADRUNNER.COM  Mon Apr  7 03:53:06 2008
From: jerry3 at ROADRUNNER.COM (Jerry Katsell)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 20:53:06 -0700
Subject: Spasibo!
Message-ID: <SUN.6.APR.2008.205306.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

 

 

            I want to thank Robert, Alex, Liza, Alina and Jeff for
responding to my query and identifying the snatches of songs

            my dad brought with him from just pre- and just
post-revolutionary Russia. I got to hear Aleksei Khvostenko's version of
"Taina,"

            which ends with the lines: Ia vam skazhu odin sekret://Kogo
liubliu togo zdes' net. The other song is entitled: "Marusia otravilas'"

            and apparently has a number of versions.

 

            Bol'shoe spasibo vsem Vam!

 

            Jerry Katsell


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From john at RUSLAN.CO.UK  Mon Apr  7 07:56:33 2008
From: john at RUSLAN.CO.UK (John Langran)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 08:56:33 +0100
Subject: RUSLAN 1 PROOFREADING
Message-ID: <MON.7.APR.2008.085633.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear colleagues
Thank you very much. I have had 16 offers of help with this. I shall sort 
out a schedule today and reply to people off list.
I do not need any more offers at this stage, thanks.
John Langran
www.ruslan.co.uk

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From mgorham at GERMSLAV.UFL.EDU  Mon Apr  7 10:11:39 2008
From: mgorham at GERMSLAV.UFL.EDU (Michael Gorham)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 06:11:39 -0400
Subject: Reminder: [Call for nominations for the 2008 AATSEEL book prizes
 (May 1, 2008 nomination deadline)]
Message-ID: <MON.7.APR.2008.061139.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

The Publications Committee of AATSEEL is soliciting nominations for its 
annual awards competition. As in the past, awards will be given for 
"Best Book in Literary/Cultural Studies," "Best Translation into 
English," "Best Contribution to Slavic Linguistics," and "Best 
Contribution to Language Pedagogy." For the prizes in literary/cultural 
studies and translation, all books published in 2006 and 2007 are 
eligible. For the prize in linguistics, books or ground-breaking 
articles published in 2006 and 2007 are eligible. For the prize in 
language pedagogy, books, textbooks, computer software, testing 
materials, and other instructional tools published in 2005, 2006 or 2007 
are eligible. To make a nomination in any of these four categories, 
please send one copy of the nominated publication to: Professor Michael 
Gorham, Department of Germanic and Slavic Studies, University of 
Florida, 263 Dauer Hall, Gainesville, FL 32611-7430. For more 
information about the AATSEEL book prizes, see 
http://www.aatseel.org/prizes.
The deadline for nominations is: May 1, 2008.

-- 
Michael S. Gorham
Chair, AATSEEL Publications Committee
Associate Professor of Russian Studies
Department of Germanic and Slavic Studies
University of Florida

263 Dauer Hall
P.O. Box 115430
Gainesville, FL 32611-7430

Tel: 352-392-2101 x206
Fax: 352-392-1067
http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/mgorham


-- 
Michael S. Gorham
Associate Professor of Russian Studies
Department of Germanic and Slavic Studies
University of Florida

263 Dauer Hall
P.O. Box 115430
Gainesville, FL 32611-7430

Tel: 352-392-2101 x206
Fax: 352-392-1067
http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/mgorham


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From mlauner at FSU.EDU  Mon Apr  7 10:37:06 2008
From: mlauner at FSU.EDU (Michael Launer)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 06:37:06 -0400
Subject: POSSIBLE PLAGIARISM
In-Reply-To: <001701c89884$e5c86640$0401a8c0@windows2hfn6v8>
Message-ID: <MON.7.APR.2008.063706.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

My wife Marilyn Young, an emerita professor of Communication, actually 
caught and nailed someone who tried to plagiarize his MA thesis.

Marilyn suggested the following:

Try Turnitin.com; or even just Google.

Happy Hunting. Hope this works.

MKL

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From losinkina at YAHOO.CO.UK  Mon Apr  7 11:10:32 2008
From: losinkina at YAHOO.CO.UK (Lyubov Osinkina)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 12:10:32 +0100
Subject: Flat in St. Petersburg for rent
Message-ID: <MON.7.APR.2008.121032.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

 
Large studio flat, overlooking the Summer Garden and
Peter and Paul Fortress. Available to rent both
long-term (preferred) and short-term.
Reasonably priced. Fully furnished and with all
facilities. Can accommodate both single individuals
and couples. Ideal for academics. Close to libraries
and university.
Further details, including photographs of the flat,
can be obtained at: lyubov.osinkina at chch.ox.ac.uk




      ___________________________________________________________ 
Yahoo! For Good helps you make a difference  

http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/

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From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM  Mon Apr  7 11:16:07 2008
From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 12:16:07 +0100
Subject: Unfortunate oversight in 'Russian Short Stories from Pushkin to
 Buida'
Message-ID: <MON.7.APR.2008.121607.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear all,

I¹ve just (over 2 years after publication!) noticed a shameful oversight in
this volume.

The translation of Teffi¹s story, ŒLove¹ should be credited not, as at
present, as Œby Robert Chandler¹, but as Œby Robert Chandler with Jane
Costlow¹.

It was Jane who first drew my attention to this beautiful story.  She
generously sent me a draft translation she had once done and then gave me
carte blanche to take from it as much or as little as I wanted.  I took
quite a lot from her translation and then rewarded her generosity with
shocking forgetfulness.  And Jane was too kind even to point this out to me.

I am trying to get this corrected in future reprints.  In the meantime,
perhaps people with copies could correct it for themselves?

Thanks,

Robert

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From jcostlow at BATES.EDU  Mon Apr  7 11:25:26 2008
From: jcostlow at BATES.EDU (Jane Costlow)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 07:25:26 -0400
Subject: Unfortunate oversight in 'Russian Short Stories from Pushkin
 to Buida'
In-Reply-To: <C41FC107.2D6AB%kcf19@dial.pipex.com>
Message-ID: <MON.7.APR.2008.072526.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

To Robert and colleagues -

This is enormously gracious on your part, Robert. It is a wonderful 
story - and I'm grateful, as always, for your yeoman's labors in 
bringing a broader range of brilliant Russian writing to the general 
public. We are all the richer for it.

Thanks for your integrity here - I really had quite forgotten about it!

Jane Costlow

Robert Chandler wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I¹ve just (over 2 years after publication!) noticed a shameful oversight in
> this volume.
>
> The translation of Teffi¹s story, ŒLove¹ should be credited not, as at
> present, as Œby Robert Chandler¹, but as Œby Robert Chandler with Jane
> Costlow¹.
>
> It was Jane who first drew my attention to this beautiful story.  She
> generously sent me a draft translation she had once done and then gave me
> carte blanche to take from it as much or as little as I wanted.  I took
> quite a lot from her translation and then rewarded her generosity with
> shocking forgetfulness.  And Jane was too kind even to point this out to me.
>
> I am trying to get this corrected in future reprints.  In the meantime,
> perhaps people with copies could correct it for themselves?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Robert
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>   

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From meersono at GEORGETOWN.EDU  Mon Apr  7 13:03:21 2008
From: meersono at GEORGETOWN.EDU (Olga Meerson)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 09:03:21 -0400
Subject: Privet!
Message-ID: <MON.7.APR.2008.090321.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

The second song (Ia vam skazhu // odin sekret...), which used to be quite a hit (a 'Schlager') at the beginning of the 20th Century, has a wonderful remake, a song written based on it, and then also performed, by Alexei Khvostenko. One of the most poetic songs in all of the Russian song treasury: its ability to resurrect things from triteness is truly comparable to Pushkin's 'Egyptian Nights'. Its starts with the words "Khranite vechno tajnu etu,// ne otkryvajte nikomu: // Prinosit noch i blesk rassveta// V prozrachnykh krylyshkakh Amur". It is so beautiful!
o

----- Original Message -----
From: Alina Israeli <aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU>
Date: Sunday, April 6, 2008 5:03 pm
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Privet!

> Here it is: http://ngavan.msk.ru/gan/a01/b91/c0000/d0858/ind.shtml
> 
> On Apr 6, 2008, at 3:02 PM, Jerry Katsell wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > 1.      Marusia, ty, Marusia
> >
> > Otkryvai tvoi glaza,
> >
> > No doktor otvechaet,
> >
> > Davnym davno umerla.
> >
> >
> > 2.      Ia Vam skazhu
> >
> > Odin sekret,
> >
> > Kogo liubliu,
> >
> > Togo i net.
> >
> >
> 
> Alina Israeli
> LFS, American University
> 4400 Massachusetts Ave., NW
> Washington DC. 20016
> (202) 885-2387 	
> fax (202) 885-1076
> aisrael at american.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your 
> subscription  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS 
> Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> 
> 

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From byrdc at UGA.EDU  Mon Apr  7 13:48:12 2008
From: byrdc at UGA.EDU (Charles Byrd)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 08:48:12 -0500
Subject: Hiring of Hearty Eaters in Russia
Message-ID: <MON.7.APR.2008.084812.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

In the 1981 blockbuster movie, "Moscow Does Not Believe in Tears,"  Tonya's father tells 
his future son-in-law how in the old days (1920s? 1930s?) potential factory workers were 
supplied with a meal, and only those who ate the most were hired.  Can anyone point me to 
a source explaining the history and logic of this policy?  Was it that the hungriest were most 
deserving of jobs in a strictly moral sense?  Or that high caloric intake would enhance 
productivity, a hearty appetite being presumably a sign of good health?   Was this a strictly 
Bolshevik policy or one with pre-revolutionary origins?  One of my students is captivated by 
the parallelism of this moment from "Moscow Does Not Believe in Tears" and a similar 
reference in the 2007 American movie "Wristcutters" which includes Russian characters.  
Here the grandmother says: "We have a saying in  Russia, 'How much you eat, that's how 
worthy you are.' My grandpa, before he'd hire anybody, he'd feed them a free meal. Those 
who ate the most � that's the ones he hired..." (All at table, in unison) "Cause those were 
the best workers."

Thanks,

Charles Byrd
University of Georgia

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From richterl at INDIANA.EDU  Mon Apr  7 14:20:16 2008
From: richterl at INDIANA.EDU (Richter, Laurence Raymond)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 10:20:16 -0400
Subject: Hiring of Hearty Eaters in Russia
In-Reply-To: <LISTSERV%200804070848129102.05EC@BAMA.UA.EDU>
Message-ID: <MON.7.APR.2008.102016.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Hello there Charlie.

The association of ample appetites and ample figures being indicative of good health and stamina is not rare or new, nor is it restricted to Russia. No candidates for high public office in Germany in the decades following the war had a chance to win if they weren't conspicuously overweight. And look at the evidence right in the Russian language. Remember that popravit'sja can mean either to recover from an illness or to put on weight. And the word for 'worse' in Russian really means 'skinnier.' Remember the Russian joke that I first heard in the 70's: Studies show that 90% of Russian men prefer fat women. The other 10% prefer VERY fat women.


Laurence R. Richter
431 W. Jed Street
Bloomington, IN 47403-3569
Hm 812-334-2523  Cl 812-219-5710
________________________________________
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Charles Byrd [byrdc at UGA.EDU]
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 9:48 AM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: [SEELANGS] Hiring of Hearty Eaters in Russia

In the 1981 blockbuster movie, "Moscow Does Not Believe in Tears,"  Tonya's father tells
his future son-in-law how in the old days (1920s? 1930s?) potential factory workers were
supplied with a meal, and only those who ate the most were hired.  Can anyone point me to
a source explaining the history and logic of this policy?  Was it that the hungriest were most
deserving of jobs in a strictly moral sense?  Or that high caloric intake would enhance
productivity, a hearty appetite being presumably a sign of good health?   Was this a strictly
Bolshevik policy or one with pre-revolutionary origins?  One of my students is captivated by
the parallelism of this moment from "Moscow Does Not Believe in Tears" and a similar
reference in the 2007 American movie "Wristcutters" which includes Russian characters.
Here the grandmother says: "We have a saying in  Russia, 'How much you eat, that's how
worthy you are.' My grandpa, before he'd hire anybody, he'd feed them a free meal. Those
who ate the most – that's the ones he hired..." (All at table, in unison) "Cause those were
the best workers."

Thanks,

Charles Byrd
University of Georgia

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From avardan at FREENET.AM  Mon Apr  7 15:22:37 2008
From: avardan at FREENET.AM (Ashot Vardanyan)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 19:22:37 +0400
Subject: > [SEELANGS] Reading Russian Text?
Message-ID: <MON.7.APR.2008.192237.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

I'd share my ideas on the sources I used. In most of these books, you can either ignore the grammar-related assignments or just slightly reflect on them to connect with the texts. The latter have good follow-up questions that can also help in the development of both reading and further oral speech.

1. "Mir Russkix" by Z. Dabars et al, Dubuque, IA 1997

2. "Pattern Drills in Russian" by N. Maltzoff, New York, 1960

3. "Russkii yazyk dlya vsex" by V. Kostomarov, Ed., Moscow, 1977

4. "Russian Intermediate Reader" by I. Mihalchenko, Ed., 1977

5. "Beginner's Russian Reader" by L. Pargment, New York, 1963

Best,
Ashot Vardanyan, University of Iowa



04/07 00:36 Laura Kline <klinela at COMCAST.NET> wrote:
> Can anyone recommend a good textbook for students who want to focus on
> developing reading skills only? They would be starting at the
> beginning
> level.
> Thank you!
> Laura 
> 
> 
> 
> Laura Kline, Ph.D
> Senior Lecturer in Russian
> Department of German and Slavic Studies
> Wayne State University
> 443 Manoogian Hall
> 906 W. Warren
> Detroit, MI  48202
> fax: 313-577-3266
> af7585 at wayne.edu
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your
> subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface
> at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
>


--
http://www.freenet.am/

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From ad2262 at COLUMBIA.EDU  Mon Apr  7 15:23:10 2008
From: ad2262 at COLUMBIA.EDU (anna dvigubski)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 10:23:10 -0500
Subject: studying russian in moscow
Message-ID: <MON.7.APR.2008.102310.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

dear all,

could you please recommend a good russian language program in
moscow for a student who has already had two years of russian at
university level here? ideal would be a program in moscow that goes on
for about two or three months in the spring, but any other suggestions
would be much appreciated as well.

thank you.
anna dvigubski,
columbia university

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From john at RUSLAN.CO.UK  Mon Apr  7 15:46:20 2008
From: john at RUSLAN.CO.UK (John Langran)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 16:46:20 +0100
Subject: studying russian in moscow
Message-ID: <MON.7.APR.2008.164620.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

I promote these courses, with Swedish management, and pretty reliable, 
generally
www.ruslan.co.uk/courses.htm#inrussia

John Langran
www.ruslan.co.uk



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "anna dvigubski" <ad2262 at COLUMBIA.EDU>
To: <SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU>
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 4:23 PM
Subject: [SEELANGS] studying russian in moscow


> dear all,
>
> could you please recommend a good russian language program in
> moscow for a student who has already had two years of russian at
> university level here? ideal would be a program in moscow that goes on
> for about two or three months in the spring, but any other suggestions
> would be much appreciated as well.
>
> thank you.
> anna dvigubski,
> columbia university
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

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From lzaharkov at WITTENBERG.EDU  Mon Apr  7 16:30:28 2008
From: lzaharkov at WITTENBERG.EDU (Lila W. Zaharkov)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 12:30:28 -0400
Subject: > [SEELANGS] Reading Russian Text?
In-Reply-To: <200804071522.m37FMbjv005285@anubis.freenet.am>
Message-ID: <MON.7.APR.2008.123028.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

At 11:22 AM 04/07/2008, you wrote:






These are oldies and goodies, , but what about the modern proficiency 
method by Irene Thompson, Reading Real Russian??? LZ
>I'd share my ideas on the sources I used. In most of these books, you can 
>either ignore the grammar-related assignments or just slightly reflect on 
>them to connect with the texts. The latter have good follow-up questions 
>that can also help in the development of both reading and further oral speech.
>
>1. "Mir Russkix" by Z. Dabars et al, Dubuque, IA 1997
>
>2. "Pattern Drills in Russian" by N. Maltzoff, New York, 1960
>
>3. "Russkii yazyk dlya vsex" by V. Kostomarov, Ed., Moscow, 1977
>
>4. "Russian Intermediate Reader" by I. Mihalchenko, Ed., 1977
>
>5. "Beginner's Russian Reader" by L. Pargment, New York, 1963
>
>Best,
>Ashot Vardanyan, University of Iowa
>
>
>
>04/07 00:36 Laura Kline <klinela at COMCAST.NET> wrote:
> > Can anyone recommend a good textbook for students who want to focus on
> > developing reading skills only? They would be starting at the
> > beginning
> > level.
> > Thank you!
> > Laura
> >
> >
> >
> > Laura Kline, Ph.D
> > Senior Lecturer in Russian
> > Department of German and Slavic Studies
> > Wayne State University
> > 443 Manoogian Hall
> > 906 W. Warren
> > Detroit, MI  48202
> > fax: 313-577-3266
> > af7585 at wayne.edu
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your
> > subscription
> >   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface
> > at:
> >                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
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> >
> >
> >
>
>
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>
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From emilka at MAC.COM  Mon Apr  7 17:43:05 2008
From: emilka at MAC.COM (Emily Saunders)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 10:43:05 -0700
Subject: Possible Plagiarism
In-Reply-To: <4CEE38A0-9C15-4DA9-BF07-2515A532ACA7@sas.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <MON.7.APR.2008.104305.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Hello,

I tried the method that has worked for me in the past -- entering in  
parts of sentences that I didn't think the student could have written  
into Google -- but it didn't turn up anything.  I agree that the  
excerpt sounds plagiarized.  I don't think I ever used the word  
"unflinching" in any piece of undergraduate writing I ever turned in.   
Perhaps one possible solution is to double check the quotes included.   
If there have been more than one translator of this work, and the  
quotes do not match the edition that you gave your students to work  
from (or the copy that the student in question has back in his/her  
dorm room), then you may be able to prove plagiarism without first  
determining the source it was taken from.

A somewhat long-shot suggestion,

Emily Saunders

On Apr 4, 2008, at 5:29 AM, Kevin M. F. Platt wrote:

> Dear SEELANGers:
>
> One of my students turned this piece of writing in for a weekly  
> reading response question about Gorky's "26 men and a girl" (I asked  
> them what they thought the significance of Tanya is in the story). I  
> am 95% certain that it is plagiarized, but I can't figure out from  
> where. Does anyone recognize it as their own or as something on  
> their shelves? Let me know off line, please.
>
> This short story, published in 1899 in a collection entitled,  
> “Creatures that Once Were Men,” is an unflinching look at the manner  
> in which men react to a crushing, stifling regime and how their  
> humanity is essentially dissolved over time. Tanya plays the role of  
> innocence, of hope, and of the possibility of redemption for the  
> twenty-six men in this narrative. Though “dull beasts,” the twenty- 
> six are “still men, and, like all men, could not live without  
> worshipping something or other.” Living in a situation that offered  
> no returns for their labor, Tanya was something they could possess:  
> “…we all regarded her as something of our own, something existing as  
> it were only by virtue of our kringels.” She carries the burden of  
> unrequited love without the knowledge or responsibility, a love so  
> deep it could just as easily crush its receiver as its giver.
> The capitalistic exploitation in this story appears to extend  
> forever – the prisoners appear to be eternally trapped in a static  
> state, where nothing changes around them. Their humanity is kept  
> intact by Tanya’s fleeting presence, the hope she represents  
> flitting in and out of their lives, only taking, never giving. At  
> the end of Gorky’s tale, Tanya is revealed to be nothing more than a  
> servant to the gold-embroiderers’ next door, the innocence she  
> represents extinguished in a moment of sexual passion. The men  
> return to their state of perpetual labor as Tanya is thrown aside,  
> crushed by their desire for an ideal.
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                   http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

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From Ronald.LeBlanc at UNH.EDU  Mon Apr  7 17:48:45 2008
From: Ronald.LeBlanc at UNH.EDU (LeBlanc, Ronald)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 13:48:45 -0400
Subject: Hiring of Hearty Eaters in Russia
Message-ID: <MON.7.APR.2008.134845.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear SEELANGers,

Re: hearty eaters.

In his book, “Crowds and Power” (1962), Elias Canetti notes that in many cultures the person who can eat more than anyone else – what he calls a “champion eater” – is accorded great respect and is often taken by people to be their chief.

Several years ago I published an article in The Russian Review that examined Olesha’s Andrei Babichev in this and other food-related contexts (“Gluttony and Power in Olesha’s Envy”).

I must admit, however, that I’m not familiar with the practice from the 1920s or 1930s that you refer to.

It certainly seems to me that potential productivity (from high caloric intake) could well have been one of the motivations behind choosing potential factory workers on the basis of their capacity for eating large quantities of food.

I, too, would be very interested in hearing more about the history behind this putative Stalinist-era practice, if anyone is familiar with the details.

Thanks,

Ron


Ronald D. LeBlanc
Professor of Russian and Humanities
Department of Languages, Literatures, and Cultures
Murkland Hall
University of New Hampshire
Durham, NH 03824
603-862-3553
ronald.leblanc at unh.edu



-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list on behalf of Richter, Laurence Raymond
Sent: Mon 4/7/2008 10:20 AM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Hiring of Hearty Eaters in Russia
 
Hello there Charlie.

The association of ample appetites and ample figures being indicative of good health and stamina is not rare or new, nor is it restricted to Russia. No candidates for high public office in Germany in the decades following the war had a chance to win if they weren't conspicuously overweight. And look at the evidence right in the Russian language. Remember that popravit'sja can mean either to recover from an illness or to put on weight. And the word for 'worse' in Russian really means 'skinnier.' Remember the Russian joke that I first heard in the 70's: Studies show that 90% of Russian men prefer fat women. The other 10% prefer VERY fat women.


Laurence R. Richter
431 W. Jed Street
Bloomington, IN 47403-3569
Hm 812-334-2523  Cl 812-219-5710
________________________________________
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Charles Byrd [byrdc at UGA.EDU]
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 9:48 AM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: [SEELANGS] Hiring of Hearty Eaters in Russia

In the 1981 blockbuster movie, "Moscow Does Not Believe in Tears,"  Tonya's father tells
his future son-in-law how in the old days (1920s? 1930s?) potential factory workers were
supplied with a meal, and only those who ate the most were hired.  Can anyone point me to
a source explaining the history and logic of this policy?  Was it that the hungriest were most
deserving of jobs in a strictly moral sense?  Or that high caloric intake would enhance
productivity, a hearty appetite being presumably a sign of good health?   Was this a strictly
Bolshevik policy or one with pre-revolutionary origins?  One of my students is captivated by
the parallelism of this moment from "Moscow Does Not Believe in Tears" and a similar
reference in the 2007 American movie "Wristcutters" which includes Russian characters.
Here the grandmother says: "We have a saying in  Russia, 'How much you eat, that's how
worthy you are.' My grandpa, before he'd hire anybody, he'd feed them a free meal. Those
who ate the most - that's the ones he hired..." (All at table, in unison) "Cause those were
the best workers."

Thanks,

Charles Byrd
University of Georgia

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                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
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From tine.roesen at IF.UIB.NO  Mon Apr  7 18:08:11 2008
From: tine.roesen at IF.UIB.NO (Tine Roesen)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 20:08:11 +0200
Subject: Possible Plagiarism
In-Reply-To: <E1A9E117-0E59-47CE-A053-0CC3267794EB@mac.com>
Message-ID: <MON.7.APR.2008.200811.0200.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Hello,

Have you tried Google Scholar (www.scholar.google.com)?
I just plotted in some words from your citation, and FM Borras: Maxim 
Gorky the Writer: An Interpretation (1967) came up. Maybe its the one?

Best,
Tine Roesen
Bergen/Copenhagen

Emily Saunders wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I tried the method that has worked for me in the past -- entering in  
> parts of sentences that I didn't think the student could have written  
> into Google -- but it didn't turn up anything.  I agree that the  
> excerpt sounds plagiarized.  I don't think I ever used the word  
> "unflinching" in any piece of undergraduate writing I ever turned 
> in.   Perhaps one possible solution is to double check the quotes 
> included.   If there have been more than one translator of this work, 
> and the  quotes do not match the edition that you gave your students 
> to work  from (or the copy that the student in question has back in 
> his/her  dorm room), then you may be able to prove plagiarism without 
> first  determining the source it was taken from.
>
> A somewhat long-shot suggestion,
>
> Emily Saunders
>
> On Apr 4, 2008, at 5:29 AM, Kevin M. F. Platt wrote:
>
>> Dear SEELANGers:
>>
>> One of my students turned this piece of writing in for a weekly  
>> reading response question about Gorky's "26 men and a girl" (I asked  
>> them what they thought the significance of Tanya is in the story). I  
>> am 95% certain that it is plagiarized, but I can't figure out from  
>> where. Does anyone recognize it as their own or as something on  
>> their shelves? Let me know off line, please.
>>
>> This short story, published in 1899 in a collection entitled,  
>> “Creatures that Once Were Men,” is an unflinching look at the manner  
>> in which men react to a crushing, stifling regime and how their  
>> humanity is essentially dissolved over time. Tanya plays the role of  
>> innocence, of hope, and of the possibility of redemption for the  
>> twenty-six men in this narrative. Though “dull beasts,” the twenty- 
>> six are “still men, and, like all men, could not live without  
>> worshipping something or other.” Living in a situation that offered  
>> no returns for their labor, Tanya was something they could possess:  
>> “…we all regarded her as something of our own, something existing as  
>> it were only by virtue of our kringels.” She carries the burden of  
>> unrequited love without the knowledge or responsibility, a love so  
>> deep it could just as easily crush its receiver as its giver.
>> The capitalistic exploitation in this story appears to extend  
>> forever – the prisoners appear to be eternally trapped in a static  
>> state, where nothing changes around them. Their humanity is kept  
>> intact by Tanya’s fleeting presence, the hope she represents  
>> flitting in and out of their lives, only taking, never giving. At  
>> the end of Gorky’s tale, Tanya is revealed to be nothing more than a  
>> servant to the gold-embroiderers’ next door, the innocence she  
>> represents extinguished in a moment of sexual passion. The men  
>> return to their state of perpetual labor as Tanya is thrown aside,  
>> crushed by their desire for an ideal.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>
>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>> options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>>                   http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>
>>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From avardan at FREENET.AM  Mon Apr  7 18:30:48 2008
From: avardan at FREENET.AM (Ashot Vardanyan)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 22:30:48 +0400
Subject: > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
Message-ID: <MON.7.APR.2008.223048.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Michele,

My notes are somewhat different from what you want but might be of interest as well.

I want to share my observation and impression on the language(s) and subtitles of two films – Russian “Prisoner of Mountain” (“Kavkazskii plennik”) and American / British “Borat: cultural learnings of America for make benefit glorious nation of Kazakhstan”. In both films the non-Armenian viewer naively reckons s/he hears the same language from the characters as s/he reads the English subtitles.

The scene of the former is set in the Russian North Caucasus, supposedly in Chechnya, the country that definitely has its own language. The filmmakers, however, run a unique trick: the local men and women speak in the main three languages of the entire Caucasus: Georgian, Azerbaijani, which is very similar to Turkish, and Armenian. There might be other Caucasian languages that I don’t know; however, from the outset, it was unusual to hear Georgian between Abdul-Murat and his daughter, but later the idea of the producers became clear: they probably aimed at demonstrating the commonality of all Caucasians which is, in turn, very dissonant to truth. The entire Caucasus is a bundle of problems. 

Armenian, my language, is represented by its “hamshena” dialect that is used by Armenians populating the Black Sea region. It appears only in the episode of the children’s talk, when a boy asks Dina if it is already time for her to marry. It seems to me, this is also political. The filmmakers couldn’t help knowing that Armenia and Russia are allies in all domains, whereas Georgia and Azerbaijan informally supported Chechnya’s insurgency and had other conflicts in their relations with Russia.

In “Borat…”, Azamat Bagatov, the partner of the main character, speaks Armenian during all the span of the film. As a matter of fact, the person who stars for him is an American Armenian actor Ken Davitian. He uses the mixture of the Eastern and Western Armenian dialects. I don’t remember what language Borat speaks, to the best of my memory, it’s either / both Russian or / and Kazakh but it’s definitely not Armenian. However, viewers don’t know this and follow the subtitles being under the impression the characters sound the same language.

…The quality of this film is a different topic.

Best,
Ashot Vardanyan, 
University of Iowa.


04/06 17:25 "Michele A. Berdy" <maberdy at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> Seelangers, o ye who know and see all...
> 
> Have any of you seen a multi-language film with sub-titles that
> distinguish between the languages spoken? If so, how did the
> sub-titles make the language distinction clear? Font? Italics?
> Other?
> 
> Feel free to send comments off list (this is fairly obscure...)
> Thanks
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your
> subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface
> at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
>


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From sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET  Mon Apr  7 18:52:48 2008
From: sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET (Sarah Hurst)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 10:52:48 -0800
Subject: > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
In-Reply-To: <200804071830.m37IUmjv006572@anubis.freenet.am>
Message-ID: <MON.7.APR.2008.105248.0800.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

In Borat the two main characters are supposed to be speaking the same language to each other (ostensibly Kazakh). As it’s really a nonsense language each actor just speaks in whatever foreign language he knows, with Sasha Baron-Cohen throwing in quite a few Polish words, I think. So it wouldn’t really make sense to differentiate the subtitles and indicate that one actor is speaking Armenian.

Sarah Hurst

-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ashot Vardanyan
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 10:31 AM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles

Dear Michele,

My notes are somewhat different from what you want but might be of interest as well.

I want to share my observation and impression on the language(s) and subtitles of two films – Russian “Prisoner of Mountain” (“Kavkazskii plennik”) and American / British “Borat: cultural learnings of America for make benefit glorious nation of Kazakhstan”. In both films the non-Armenian viewer naively reckons s/he hears the same language from the characters as s/he reads the English subtitles.

The scene of the former is set in the Russian North Caucasus, supposedly in Chechnya, the country that definitely has its own language. The filmmakers, however, run a unique trick: the local men and women speak in the main three languages of the entire Caucasus: Georgian, Azerbaijani, which is very similar to Turkish, and Armenian. There might be other Caucasian languages that I don’t know; however, from the outset, it was unusual to hear Georgian between Abdul-Murat and his daughter, but later the idea of the producers became clear: they probably aimed at demonstrating the commonality of all Caucasians which is, in turn, very dissonant to truth. The entire Caucasus is a bundle of problems. 

Armenian, my language, is represented by its “hamshena” dialect that is used by Armenians populating the Black Sea region. It appears only in the episode of the children’s talk, when a boy asks Dina if it is already time for her to marry. It seems to me, this is also political. The filmmakers couldn’t help knowing that Armenia and Russia are allies in all domains, whereas Georgia and Azerbaijan informally supported Chechnya’s insurgency and had other conflicts in their relations with Russia.

In “Borat…”, Azamat Bagatov, the partner of the main character, speaks Armenian during all the span of the film. As a matter of fact, the person who stars for him is an American Armenian actor Ken Davitian. He uses the mixture of the Eastern and Western Armenian dialects. I don’t remember what language Borat speaks, to the best of my memory, it’s either / both Russian or / and Kazakh but it’s definitely not Armenian. However, viewers don’t know this and follow the subtitles being under the impression the characters sound the same language.

…The quality of this film is a different topic.

Best,
Ashot Vardanyan, 
University of Iowa.


04/06 17:25 "Michele A. Berdy" <maberdy at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> Seelangers, o ye who know and see all...
> 
> Have any of you seen a multi-language film with sub-titles that
> distinguish between the languages spoken? If so, how did the
> sub-titles make the language distinction clear? Font? Italics?
> Other?
> 
> Feel free to send comments off list (this is fairly obscure...)
> Thanks
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your
> subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface
> at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
>


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From irinasix at KU.EDU  Mon Apr  7 19:07:30 2008
From: irinasix at KU.EDU (Six, Irina Anatolyevna)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 14:07:30 -0500
Subject: Hiring of Hearty Eaters in Russia
In-Reply-To: A<LISTSERV%200804070848129102.05EC@BAMA.UA.EDU>
Message-ID: <MON.7.APR.2008.140730.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

I guess this is a common Russian belief that those who are heavy eaters
are also hard workers.  My immediate association was the line from
Pushkin's 

SKAZKA O POPE I O RABOTNIKE EGO BALDE 

Zhivet Balda v popovom dome,
Spit sebe na solome,
Est za chetverykh,
Rabotaet za semerykh;

I would advise to search in folklore for the prove of this traditional
belief. 

Thanks,
Irina Six

Dr. Irina Fediunina Six
Lecturer 
Slavic Languages and Literatures
Wescoe Hall
1445 Jayhawk Blvd., Room 2135
Lawrence, KS 66045-7590
(785) 864-1230
fax (785) 864 4298
irinasix at ku.edu
www.ku.edu/~slavic


-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
[mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Charles Byrd
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 8:48 AM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: [SEELANGS] Hiring of Hearty Eaters in Russia


In the 1981 blockbuster movie, "Moscow Does Not Believe in Tears,"
Tonya's father tells 
his future son-in-law how in the old days (1920s? 1930s?) potential
factory workers were 
supplied with a meal, and only those who ate the most were hired.  Can
anyone point me to 
a source explaining the history and logic of this policy?  Was it that
the hungriest were most 
deserving of jobs in a strictly moral sense?  Or that high caloric
intake would enhance 
productivity, a hearty appetite being presumably a sign of good health?
Was this a strictly 
Bolshevik policy or one with pre-revolutionary origins?  One of my
students is captivated by 
the parallelism of this moment from "Moscow Does Not Believe in Tears"
and a similar 
reference in the 2007 American movie "Wristcutters" which includes
Russian characters.  
Here the grandmother says: "We have a saying in  Russia, 'How much you
eat, that's how 
worthy you are.' My grandpa, before he'd hire anybody, he'd feed them a
free meal. Those 
who ate the most - that's the ones he hired..." (All at table, in
unison) "Cause those were 
the best workers."

Thanks,

Charles Byrd
University of Georgia

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From avardan at FREENET.AM  Mon Apr  7 19:13:04 2008
From: avardan at FREENET.AM (Ashot Vardanyan)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 23:13:04 +0400
Subject: > Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] Reading Russian Text?
Message-ID: <MON.7.APR.2008.231304.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

If you judge by the year, hers are also oldies and goodies... To develop students' TECHNIQUE OF READING, I used those books quite successfully since they provide the most common reading patterns which, I guess, didn't superannuate. This is just what I meant.

In that regard, items 2, 3, and 5 are much better for the beginners.

04/07 16:33 "Lila W. Zaharkov" <lzaharkov at WITTENBERG.EDU> wrote:
> At 11:22 AM 04/07/2008, you wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These are oldies and goodies, , but what about the modern proficiency
> 
> method by Irene Thompson, Reading Real Russian??? LZ
> >I'd share my ideas on the sources I used. In most of these books,
> you can 
> >either ignore the grammar-related assignments or just slightly
> reflect on 
> >them to connect with the texts. The latter have good follow-up
> questions 
> >that can also help in the development of both reading and further
> oral speech.
> >
> >1. "Mir Russkix" by Z. Dabars et al, Dubuque, IA 1997
> >
> >2. "Pattern Drills in Russian" by N. Maltzoff, New
> York, 1960
> >
> >3. "Russkii yazyk dlya vsex" by V. Kostomarov, Ed.,
> Moscow, 1977
> >
> >4. "Russian Intermediate Reader" by I. Mihalchenko,
> Ed., 1977
> >
> >5. "Beginner's Russian Reader" by L. Pargment, New
> York, 1963
> >
> >Best,
> >Ashot Vardanyan, University of Iowa
> >
> >
> >
> >04/07 00:36 Laura Kline <klinela at COMCAST.NET> wrote:
> > > Can anyone recommend a good textbook for students who want
> to focus on
> > > developing reading skills only? They would be starting at
> the
> > > beginning
> > > level.
> > > Thank you!
> > > Laura
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Laura Kline, Ph.D
> > > Senior Lecturer in Russian
> > > Department of German and Slavic Studies
> > > Wayne State University
> > > 443 Manoogian Hall
> > > 906 W. Warren
> > > Detroit, MI  48202
> > > fax: 313-577-3266
> > > af7585 at wayne.edu
> > >
> > >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your
> > > subscription
> > >   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web
> Interface
> > > at:
> > >                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> > >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >--
> >http://www.freenet.am/
> >
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your
> subscription
> >   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web
> Interface at:
> >                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your
> subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface
> at:
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> 
>


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From valentina.apresjan at GMAIL.COM  Mon Apr  7 19:19:13 2008
From: valentina.apresjan at GMAIL.COM (valentina apresjan)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 23:19:13 +0400
Subject: studying russian in moscow
In-Reply-To: <LISTSERV%200804071023106250.07DD@BAMA.UA.EDU>
Message-ID: <MON.7.APR.2008.231913.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

check this site russianinmoscow.ruslang.ru at the Russian Language Institute

On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 7:23 PM, anna dvigubski <ad2262 at columbia.edu> wrote:

> dear all,
>
> could you please recommend a good russian language program in
> moscow for a student who has already had two years of russian at
> university level here? ideal would be a program in moscow that goes on
> for about two or three months in the spring, but any other suggestions
> would be much appreciated as well.
>
> thank you.
> anna dvigubski,
> columbia university
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
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>

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From es9 at SOAS.AC.UK  Mon Apr  7 19:44:47 2008
From: es9 at SOAS.AC.UK (Evgeny Steiner)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 19:44:47 +0000
Subject: > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
Message-ID: <MON.7.APR.2008.194447.0000.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

"Really a nonsense language"???
Sasha Baron-Cohen was talking good Hebrew.

Evgeny Steiner
Sainsbury Inst. for the Japanese Art

-----Original Message-----
From: Sarah Hurst <sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET>
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 10:52:48 -0800
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles

In Borat the two main characters are supposed to be speaking the same language to each other (ostensibly Kazakh). As it’s really a nonsense language each actor just speaks in whatever foreign language he knows, with Sasha Baron-Cohen throwing in quite a few Polish words, I think. So it wouldn’t really make sense to differentiate the subtitles and indicate that one actor is speaking Armenian.

Sarah Hurst

-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ashot Vardanyan
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 10:31 AM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles

Dear Michele,

My notes are somewhat different from what you want but might be of interest as well.

I want to share my observation and impression on the language(s) and subtitles of two films – Russian “Prisoner of Mountain” (“Kavkazskii plennik”) and American / British “Borat: cultural learnings of America for make benefit glorious nation of Kazakhstan”. In both films the non-Armenian viewer naively reckons s/he hears the same language from the characters as s/he reads the English subtitles.

The scene of the former is set in the Russian North Caucasus, supposedly in Chechnya, the country that definitely has its own language. The filmmakers, however, run a unique trick: the local men and women speak in the main three languages of the entire Caucasus: Georgian, Azerbaijani, which is very similar to Turkish, and Armenian. There might be other Caucasian languages that I don’t know; however, from the outset, it was unusual to hear Georgian between Abdul-Murat and his daughter, but later the idea of the producers became clear: they probably aimed at demonstrating the commonality of all Caucasians which is, in turn, very dissonant to truth. The entire Caucasus is a bundle of problems. 

Armenian, my language, is represented by its “hamshena” dialect that is used by Armenians populating the Black Sea region. It appears only in the episode of the children’s talk, when a boy asks Dina if it is already time for her to marry. It seems to me, this is also political. The filmmakers couldn’t help knowing that Armenia and Russia are allies in all domains, whereas Georgia and Azerbaijan informally supported Chechnya’s insurgency and had other conflicts in their relations with Russia.

In “Borat…”, Azamat Bagatov, the partner of the main character, speaks Armenian during all the span of the film. As a matter of fact, the person who stars for him is an American Armenian actor Ken Davitian. He uses the mixture of the Eastern and Western Armenian dialects. I don’t remember what language Borat speaks, to the best of my memory, it’s either / both Russian or / and Kazakh but it’s definitely not Armenian. However, viewers don’t know this and follow the subtitles being under the impression the characters sound the same language.

…The quality of this film is a different topic.

Best,
Ashot Vardanyan, 
University of Iowa.


04/06 17:25 "Michele A. Berdy" <maberdy at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> Seelangers, o ye who know and see all...
> 
> Have any of you seen a multi-language film with sub-titles that
> distinguish between the languages spoken? If so, how did the
> sub-titles make the language distinction clear? Font? Italics?
> Other?
> 
> Feel free to send comments off list (this is fairly obscure...)
> Thanks
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your
> subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface
> at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
>


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From ah69 at COLUMBIA.EDU  Mon Apr  7 21:06:43 2008
From: ah69 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Andy Hicks)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 16:06:43 -0500
Subject: sub-titles
Message-ID: <MON.7.APR.2008.160643.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

I wrote the subtitles for the 1995 movie Kolja, which is based in part on
the conflict between -- and some eventual mixing of -- Czech and Russian. 
Unfortunately, at the moment I can't find my U.S. dvd of the movie, so I
can't confirm whether we ended up using italics for the Russian or not.  

I synchronized that set of titles along with with people from Miramax and
LVT/Laser Video Titles, so my experience probably represents the mainstream
approach, at least as of 13 years ago.  At the time, I was suggesting
various ways to preserve the linguistic shading.  Printing the subtitles in
different colors was rejected immediately.  Putting the Russian in brackets
was considered but rejected (likely due to character count).  If you can
find a dvd before I do, you'll know whether I managed to argue successfully
for italics.

There are two important instances of language mixing in the film that we
were unable to mark typographically.  In the first, the Czech protagonist
has to make a subway announcement in poorly remembered/reconstructed
Russian.  It's one of the bigger laughs in the movie for Czechs, and to get
the humor across in the titles I resorted to all types of deformed English
including misspellings.  In the second, the Russian child character
gradually starts mixing Czech into his Russian, ending up with a sort of
common Slavic hybrid; that element just dropped by the wayside for English
speakers.

In general, I had a lot more bad English grammar in the draft than in the
final set of titles.  The movie folks in the room felt that those
intentional mistakes would break the spell for the audience.  Generally we
left in one blatant error to establish that a character was butchering the
language, and then left the rest to  the imagination.

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From sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET  Mon Apr  7 21:24:36 2008
From: sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET (Sarah Hurst)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 13:24:36 -0800
Subject: > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
In-Reply-To: <1207597487.9dcab8ces9@soas.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <MON.7.APR.2008.132436.0800.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

It's nonsense if one is talking Hebrew, the other is replying in Armenian, and they are both pretending to be speaking Kazakh.

-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Evgeny Steiner
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 11:45 AM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles

"Really a nonsense language"???
Sasha Baron-Cohen was talking good Hebrew.

Evgeny Steiner
Sainsbury Inst. for the Japanese Art

-----Original Message-----
From: Sarah Hurst <sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET>
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 10:52:48 -0800
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles

In Borat the two main characters are supposed to be speaking the same language to each other (ostensibly Kazakh). As it’s really a nonsense language each actor just speaks in whatever foreign language he knows, with Sasha Baron-Cohen throwing in quite a few Polish words, I think. So it wouldn’t really make sense to differentiate the subtitles and indicate that one actor is speaking Armenian.

Sarah Hurst

-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ashot Vardanyan
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 10:31 AM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles

Dear Michele,

My notes are somewhat different from what you want but might be of interest as well.

I want to share my observation and impression on the language(s) and subtitles of two films – Russian “Prisoner of Mountain” (“Kavkazskii plennik”) and American / British “Borat: cultural learnings of America for make benefit glorious nation of Kazakhstan”. In both films the non-Armenian viewer naively reckons s/he hears the same language from the characters as s/he reads the English subtitles.

The scene of the former is set in the Russian North Caucasus, supposedly in Chechnya, the country that definitely has its own language. The filmmakers, however, run a unique trick: the local men and women speak in the main three languages of the entire Caucasus: Georgian, Azerbaijani, which is very similar to Turkish, and Armenian. There might be other Caucasian languages that I don’t know; however, from the outset, it was unusual to hear Georgian between Abdul-Murat and his daughter, but later the idea of the producers became clear: they probably aimed at demonstrating the commonality of all Caucasians which is, in turn, very dissonant to truth. The entire Caucasus is a bundle of problems. 

Armenian, my language, is represented by its “hamshena” dialect that is used by Armenians populating the Black Sea region. It appears only in the episode of the children’s talk, when a boy asks Dina if it is already time for her to marry. It seems to me, this is also political. The filmmakers couldn’t help knowing that Armenia and Russia are allies in all domains, whereas Georgia and Azerbaijan informally supported Chechnya’s insurgency and had other conflicts in their relations with Russia.

In “Borat…”, Azamat Bagatov, the partner of the main character, speaks Armenian during all the span of the film. As a matter of fact, the person who stars for him is an American Armenian actor Ken Davitian. He uses the mixture of the Eastern and Western Armenian dialects. I don’t remember what language Borat speaks, to the best of my memory, it’s either / both Russian or / and Kazakh but it’s definitely not Armenian. However, viewers don’t know this and follow the subtitles being under the impression the characters sound the same language.

…The quality of this film is a different topic.

Best,
Ashot Vardanyan, 
University of Iowa.


04/06 17:25 "Michele A. Berdy" <maberdy at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> Seelangers, o ye who know and see all...
> 
> Have any of you seen a multi-language film with sub-titles that
> distinguish between the languages spoken? If so, how did the
> sub-titles make the language distinction clear? Font? Italics?
> Other?
> 
> Feel free to send comments off list (this is fairly obscure...)
> Thanks
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your
> subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface
> at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
>


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No virus found in this outgoing message.
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From burry.7 at OSU.EDU  Mon Apr  7 23:59:24 2008
From: burry.7 at OSU.EDU (Alexander Burry)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 18:59:24 -0500
Subject: AATSEEL Call for Papers
Message-ID: <MON.7.APR.2008.185924.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Seelangers, &#8232;&#8232;

The Call for Papers for the 2008 Annual Meeting of the American Association&#8232;of Teachers 
of Slavic and East European Languages (AATSEEL) to be held in&#8232;San Francisco is posted at 
the following site:&#8232;&#8232;

http://www.aatseel.org/program/

We invite scholars in our field who want to participate in the conference to&#8232;submit 
abstracts of their papers by the first deadline, April 15, 2008. This first deadline allows 
for revision and resubmission of abstracts, should reviewers deem that necessary. The 
second deadline (August 1, 2008) does not allow for resubmission.

All abstracts&#8232;will undergo double-blind peer review, and authors will be informed about&#8232;
their participation in the conference by September 1.&#8232;&#8232;

We will accept panel declarations until August 1. We also encourage AATSEEL&#8232;members to 
form their own complete panels with the understanding that all&#8232;presenters will submit 
individual abstracts.&#8232;&#8232;

Proposals for roundtables and forums should be submitted by August 1 as&amp;#8232;well.&#8232;&#8232;

All abstract authors must be AATSEEL members in good standing for 2008, or&#8232;request a 
waiver of membership from the Chair of the AATSEEL Program&#8232;Committee, when they 
submit their abstracts for peer review. For information&#8232;on AATSEEL membership, details 
on conference participation, and guidelines for&#8232;preparing abstracts, please follow the links 
from AATSEEL's homepage&#8232;(http://www.aatseel.org).&#8232;&amp;#8232;

Please share this information with other colleagues in the field who may not&#8232;be members 
of SEELANGS.&#8232;&#8232;

Best wishes, &#8232;&#8232;
Alexander Burry &#8232;
Chair, AATSEEL Program Committee

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From lino59 at AMERITECH.NET  Tue Apr  8 01:14:20 2008
From: lino59 at AMERITECH.NET (Deborah Hoffman)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 18:14:20 -0700
Subject: possible plagiarism
In-Reply-To: <SEELANGS%200804071251500172.0D9F@BAMA.UA.EDU>
Message-ID: <MON.7.APR.2008.181420.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

This is just a thought - something about this excerpt seems "older," i.e. "dull beasts," and the fact that the author felt no need to disclaim the gender relation in "Tanya was something they could possess: “
we all regarded her as something of our own." I'm wondering if it's a physical book in your university library - the kind I might have consulted as an undergrad before the Internet, something not likely to have been uploaded onto Google. I agree the translation can be a clue, especially the use of "kringel" rather than "pretzel" which I've seen elsewhere.
   
  On Apr 4, 2008, at 5:29 AM, Kevin M. F. Platt wrote:

> Dear SEELANGers:
>
> One of my students turned this piece of writing in for a weekly  
> reading response question about Gorky's "26 men and a girl" (I
asked
  
> them what they thought the significance of Tanya is in the story).
I
  
> am 95% certain that it is plagiarized, but I can't figure out from
  
> where. Does anyone recognize it as their own or as something on  
> their shelves? Let me know off line, please.
>
> This short story, published in 1899 in a collection entitled,  
> “Creatures that Once Were Men,” is an unflinching look at the
manner  
> in which men react to a crushing, stifling regime and how their  
> humanity is essentially dissolved over time. Tanya plays the role
of
  
> innocence, of hope, and of the possibility of redemption for the  
> twenty-six men in this narrative. Though “dull beasts,” the
twenty- 
> six are “still men, and, like all men, could not live without  
> worshipping something or other.” Living in a situation that
offered
  
> no returns for their labor, Tanya was something they could
possess:  
> “
we all regarded her as something of our own, something
existing
as  
> it were only by virtue of our kringels.” She carries the burden
of
  
> unrequited love without the knowledge or responsibility, a love so
  
> deep it could just as easily crush its receiver as its giver.
> The capitalistic exploitation in this story appears to extend  
> forever – the prisoners appear to be eternally trapped in a
static
  
> state, where nothing changes around them. Their humanity is kept  
> intact by Tanya’s fleeting presence, the hope she represents  
> flitting in and out of their lives, only taking, never giving. At
  
> the end of Gorky’s tale, Tanya is revealed to be nothing more
than
a  
> servant to the gold-embroiderers’ next door, the innocence she  
> represents extinguished in a moment of sexual passion. The men  
> return to their state of perpetual labor as Tanya is thrown aside,
  
> crushed by their desire for an ideal.



Deborah Hoffman, Esq.
Russian > English Legal and Literary Translations

A man ceases to be a beginner in any given science and becomes a master in that science when he has learned that he is going to be a beginner all his life. -- R. G. Collingwood

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From trubikhina at AOL.COM  Tue Apr  8 02:21:03 2008
From: trubikhina at AOL.COM (trubikhina at AOL.COM)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 22:21:03 -0400
Subject: possible plagiarism
In-Reply-To: <351336.56492.qm@web80603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <MON.7.APR.2008.222103.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

 Just put it through turnitin.com and you'll find out the source (if indeed the paper is plagiarized).




Julia Trubikhina

Assistant Professor of Russian
Russian Program Coordinator
Department of Modern Languages and Literatures
Montclair State University
Dickson Hall, Room 138
Montclair, NJ 07043





 


 

-----Original Message-----
From: Deborah Hoffman <lino59 at AMERITECH.NET>
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Sent: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 9:14 pm
Subject: [SEELANGS] possible plagiarism










This is just a thought - something about this excerpt seems "older," i.e. "dull 
beasts," and the fact that the author felt no need to disclaim the gender 
relation in "Tanya was something they could possess: “…we all regarded her as 
something of our own." I'm wondering if it's a physical book in your university 
library - the kind I might have consulted as an undergrad before the Internet, 
something not likely to have been uploaded onto Google. I agree the translation 
can be a clue, especially the use of "kringel" rather than "pretzel" which I've 
seen elsewhere.
   
  On Apr 4, 2008, at 5:29 AM, Kevin M. F. Platt wrote:

> Dear SEELANGers:
>
> One of my students turned this piece of writing in for a weekly  
> reading response question about Gorky's "26 men and a girl" (I
asked
  
> them what they thought the significance of Tanya is in the story).
I
  
> am 95% certain that it is plagiarized, but I can't figure out from
  
> where. Does anyone recognize it as their own or as something on  
> their shelves? Let me know off line, please.
>
> This short story, published in 1899 in a collection entitled,  
> “Creatures that Once Were Men,” is an unflinching look at the
manner  
> in which men react to a crushing, stifling regime and how their  
> humanity is essentially dissolved over time. Tanya plays the role
of
  
> innocence, of hope, and of the possibility of redemption for the  
> twenty-six men in this narrative. Though “dull beasts,” the
twenty- 
> six are “still men, and, like all men, could not live without  
> worshipping something or other.” Living in a situation that
offered
  
> no returns for their labor, Tanya was something they could
possess:  
> “…we all regarded her as something of our own, something
existing
as  
> it were only by virtue of our kringels.” She carries the burden
of
  
> unrequited love without the knowledge or responsibility, a love so
  
> deep it could just as easily crush its receiver as its giver.
> The capitalistic exploitation in this story appears to extend  
> forever – the prisoners appear to be eternally trapped in a
static
  
> state, where nothing changes around them. Their humanity is kept  
> intact by Tanya’s fleeting presence, the hope she represents  
> flitting in and out of their lives, only taking, never giving. At
  
> the end of Gorky’s tale, Tanya is revealed to be nothing more
than
a  
> servant to the gold-embroiderers’ next door, the innocence she  
> represents extinguished in a moment of sexual passion. The men  
> return to their state of perpetual labor as Tanya is thrown aside,
  
> crushed by their desire for an ideal.



Deborah Hoffman, Esq.
Russian > English Legal and Literary Translations

A man ceases to be a beginner in any given science and becomes a master in that 
science when he has learned that he is going to be a beginner all his life. -- 
R. G. Collingwood

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From dustin.hosseini at GMAIL.COM  Tue Apr  8 09:13:04 2008
From: dustin.hosseini at GMAIL.COM (Dustin Hosseini)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 04:13:04 -0500
Subject: Plagiarism/Cheating in Russia
Message-ID: <TUE.8.APR.2008.041304.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Plagiarism/Cheating in Russia

Just a thought, while we're on this subject, why not give a lecture to your
students on the concept of plagiarism in Russia, or rather, the lack
thereof?   At least in
academic circles, plagiarism does not exist as a cultural concept that is
close to the one that exists in English language culture... this
also goes for 'cheating' on tests and examinations.

Anyway, it's just a thought.  While some of you are certain to see it as
counterproductive, it would give students a more insightful glimpse into
certain aspects of Russian culture which are perpetually at odds with, for
example, American culture. 

Additionally, such a lecture might cajole the student into giving
himself/herself/themself(ves) up if they really did cheat, and genuinely
feel guilty about it.  

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From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU  Tue Apr  8 13:11:39 2008
From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 09:11:39 -0400
Subject: possible plagiarism
In-Reply-To: <351336.56492.qm@web80603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.8.APR.2008.091139.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

College papers I also written for money, I've seen adds myself. In  
the olden day the adds were posted with tear-off numbers on campus,  
like roommate needed, now they come via Internet. In fact adds for  
college degrees and PhD's come as well periodically (with the letters  
of recommendation from professors!).

On the subject of writing for students under the guise of tutoring  
there was a mea culpa article, I believe in the New York Times a few  
years ago.

>

Alina Israeli
LFS, American University
4400 Massachusetts Ave., NW
Washington DC. 20016
(202) 885-2387 	
fax (202) 885-1076
aisrael at american.edu




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From Lyssakov at EU.SPB.RU  Tue Apr  8 13:22:15 2008
From: Lyssakov at EU.SPB.RU (Pavel Lyssakov)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 17:22:15 +0400
Subject: IMARS
Message-ID: <TUE.8.APR.2008.172215.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Colleagues,

This is a reminder of the approaching application deadline to the
International MA in Russian Studies program (IMARS) at the European
University at St Petersburg, for the Fall'2008 semester

For more information please write to <imars at eu.spb.ru> and/or go to our
website www.eu.spb.ru (choose the English version).

Sincerely,

Pavel Lyssakov



Dr Pavel Lyssakov
Director, IMARS

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From arlene.forman at OBERLIN.EDU  Tue Apr  8 14:04:52 2008
From: arlene.forman at OBERLIN.EDU (Arlene Forman)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 09:04:52 -0500
Subject: Rental Advice for St. Petersburg
Message-ID: <TUE.8.APR.2008.090452.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

I was wondering whether someone had their pulse on the apartment rental
situation in Petersburg.  What would a modest apartment accessible to
transport run nowadays?  This would be an extended stay (9 months) for one
of our graduates (a young woman) and we are trying to work out a realistic
budget.  Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance for your assistance.

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From ashot-vardanyan at UIOWA.EDU  Tue Apr  8 14:55:58 2008
From: ashot-vardanyan at UIOWA.EDU (Vardanyan, Ashot)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 09:55:58 -0500
Subject: Armenian, Hebrew...
Message-ID: <TUE.8.APR.2008.095558.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Oh, yes, I completely agree, I didn't mean there would be a need for that. It isn't even important for the audience. I found the fact per se interesting.

Ashot Vardanyan



04/07 18:58 Sarah Hurst <sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET> wrote:
> In Borat the two main characters are supposed to be speaking the same language to each other (ostensibly Kazakh). As it's really a nonsense language each actor just speaks in whatever foreign language he knows, with Sasha Baron-Cohen throwing in quite a few Polish words, I think. So it wouldn't really make sense to differentiate the subtitles and indicate that one actor is speaking Armenian.
> 
> Sarah Hurst


Notice: This UI Health Care e-mail (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  Please reply to the sender that you have received the message in error, then delete it.  Thank you.

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From es9 at SOAS.AC.UK  Tue Apr  8 15:02:48 2008
From: es9 at SOAS.AC.UK (Evgeny Steiner)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 15:02:48 +0000
Subject: > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
Message-ID: <TUE.8.APR.2008.150248.0000.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

-----Original Message-----
From: Sarah Hurst <sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET>
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 13:24:36 -0800
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles

It's nonsense if one is talking Hebrew, the other is replying in Armenian, and they are both pretending to be speaking Kazakh.

Oh, I thought it was a rather cunning joke to make that Anti-Semitic simpleton to speak Hebrew. But possibly the authors of Borat had to be more considerate to those film critics to whom either Armenian or Hebrew sound like nonsense.

ES
-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Evgeny Steiner
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 11:45 AM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles

"Really a nonsense language"???
Sasha Baron-Cohen was talking good Hebrew.

Evgeny Steiner
Sainsbury Inst. for the Japanese Art

-----Original Message-----
From: Sarah Hurst <sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET>
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 10:52:48 -0800
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles

In Borat the two main characters are supposed to be speaking the same language to each other (ostensibly Kazakh). As it’s really a nonsense language each actor just speaks in whatever foreign language he knows, with Sasha Baron-Cohen throwing in quite a few Polish words, I think. So it wouldn’t really make sense to differentiate the subtitles and indicate that one actor is speaking Armenian.

Sarah Hurst

-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ashot Vardanyan
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 10:31 AM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles

Dear Michele,

My notes are somewhat different from what you want but might be of interest as well.

I want to share my observation and impression on the language(s) and subtitles of two films – Russian “Prisoner of Mountain” (“Kavkazskii plennik”) and American / British “Borat: cultural learnings of America for make benefit glorious nation of Kazakhstan”. In both films the non-Armenian viewer naively reckons s/he hears the same language from the characters as s/he reads the English subtitles.

The scene of the former is set in the Russian North Caucasus, supposedly in Chechnya, the country that definitely has its own language. The filmmakers, however, run a unique trick: the local men and women speak in the main three languages of the entire Caucasus: Georgian, Azerbaijani, which is very similar to Turkish, and Armenian. There might be other Caucasian languages that I don’t know; however, from the outset, it was unusual to hear Georgian between Abdul-Murat and his daughter, but later the idea of the producers became clear: they probably aimed at demonstrating the commonality of all Caucasians which is, in turn, very dissonant to truth. The entire Caucasus is a bundle of problems. 

Armenian, my language, is represented by its “hamshena” dialect that is used by Armenians populating the Black Sea region. It appears only in the episode of the children’s talk, when a boy asks Dina if it is already time for her to marry. It seems to me, this is also political. The filmmakers couldn’t help knowing that Armenia and Russia are allies in all domains, whereas Georgia and Azerbaijan informally supported Chechnya’s insurgency and had other conflicts in their relations with Russia.

In “Borat…”, Azamat Bagatov, the partner of the main character, speaks Armenian during all the span of the film. As a matter of fact, the person who stars for him is an American Armenian actor Ken Davitian. He uses the mixture of the Eastern and Western Armenian dialects. I don’t remember what language Borat speaks, to the best of my memory, it’s either / both Russian or / and Kazakh but it’s definitely not Armenian. However, viewers don’t know this and follow the subtitles being under the impression the characters sound the same language.

…The quality of this film is a different topic.

Best,
Ashot Vardanyan, 
University of Iowa.


04/06 17:25 "Michele A. Berdy" <maberdy at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> Seelangers, o ye who know and see all...
> 
> Have any of you seen a multi-language film with sub-titles that
> distinguish between the languages spoken? If so, how did the
> sub-titles make the language distinction clear? Font? Italics?
> Other?
> 
> Feel free to send comments off list (this is fairly obscure...)
> Thanks
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your
> subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface
> at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
>


--
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From avs2120 at COLUMBIA.EDU  Tue Apr  8 15:18:40 2008
From: avs2120 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Andrey Shcherbenok)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 11:18:40 -0400
Subject: Rental Advice for St. Petersburg
In-Reply-To: <LISTSERV%200804080904528311.06AF@BAMA.UA.EDU>
Message-ID: <TUE.8.APR.2008.111840.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

As far as I know, street price for a studio (odnokomnatnaia kvartira) in the
cheapest building (Khruschevka) in, say, Kupchino (one of the cheapest
areas) within 3-4 bus stops to the nearest subway, would run her about $600
a month. A trip to the city center (say, Nevsky) from such area on public
transportation will take her about 50 minutes. Hope this helps.
Andrey

------------
Andrey Shcherbenok, Ph.D.
Mellon Postdoctoral Fellow, Society of Fellows in the Humanities
Lecturer, Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures
Columbia University
avs2120 at columbia.edu

-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
[mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Arlene Forman
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 10:05 AM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: [SEELANGS] Rental Advice for St. Petersburg

I was wondering whether someone had their pulse on the apartment rental
situation in Petersburg.  What would a modest apartment accessible to
transport run nowadays?  This would be an extended stay (9 months) for one
of our graduates (a young woman) and we are trying to work out a realistic
budget.  Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance for your assistance.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
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From ashot-vardanyan at UIOWA.EDU  Tue Apr  8 16:46:52 2008
From: ashot-vardanyan at UIOWA.EDU (Vardanyan, Ashot)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 11:46:52 -0500
Subject: > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
Message-ID: <TUE.8.APR.2008.114652.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Anyway, if it comes to my personal opinion, I was not very happy to hear my mother tongue in such a mean film. I had a feeling my language was associated with the humiliating plot of the content. Now, I think some Jews could have the same view.
 
Ashot

________________________________

From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list on behalf of Evgeny Steiner
Sent: Tue 08-Apr-08 10:02
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles



-----Original Message-----
From: Sarah Hurst <sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET>
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 13:24:36 -0800
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles

It's nonsense if one is talking Hebrew, the other is replying in Armenian, and they are both pretending to be speaking Kazakh.

Oh, I thought it was a rather cunning joke to make that Anti-Semitic simpleton to speak Hebrew. But possibly the authors of Borat had to be more considerate to those film critics to whom either Armenian or Hebrew sound like nonsense.

ES
-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Evgeny Steiner
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 11:45 AM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles

"Really a nonsense language"???
Sasha Baron-Cohen was talking good Hebrew.

Evgeny Steiner
Sainsbury Inst. for the Japanese Art

-----Original Message-----
From: Sarah Hurst <sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET>
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 10:52:48 -0800
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles

In Borat the two main characters are supposed to be speaking the same language to each other (ostensibly Kazakh). As it's really a nonsense language each actor just speaks in whatever foreign language he knows, with Sasha Baron-Cohen throwing in quite a few Polish words, I think. So it wouldn't really make sense to differentiate the subtitles and indicate that one actor is speaking Armenian.

Sarah Hurst

-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ashot Vardanyan
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 10:31 AM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles

Dear Michele,

My notes are somewhat different from what you want but might be of interest as well.

I want to share my observation and impression on the language(s) and subtitles of two films âEUR" Russian âEURoePrisoner of MountainâEUR (âEURoeKavkazskii plennikâEUR) and American / British âEURoeBorat: cultural learnings of America for make benefit glorious nation of KazakhstanâEUR. In both films the non-Armenian viewer naively reckons s/he hears the same language from the characters as s/he reads the English subtitles.

The scene of the former is set in the Russian North Caucasus, supposedly in Chechnya, the country that definitely has its own language. The filmmakers, however, run a unique trick: the local men and women speak in the main three languages of the entire Caucasus: Georgian, Azerbaijani, which is very similar to Turkish, and Armenian. There might be other Caucasian languages that I donâEUR(tm)t know; however, from the outset, it was unusual to hear Georgian between Abdul-Murat and his daughter, but later the idea of the producers became clear: they probably aimed at demonstrating the commonality of all Caucasians which is, in turn, very dissonant to truth. The entire Caucasus is a bundle of problems.

Armenian, my language, is represented by its âEURoehamshenaâEUR dialect that is used by Armenians populating the Black Sea region. It appears only in the episode of the childrenâEUR(tm)s talk, when a boy asks Dina if it is already time for her to marry. It seems to me, this is also political. The filmmakers couldnâEUR(tm)t help knowing that Armenia and Russia are allies in all domains, whereas Georgia and Azerbaijan informally supported ChechnyaâEUR(tm)s insurgency and had other conflicts in their relations with Russia.

In âEURoeBoratâEUR¦âEUR, Azamat Bagatov, the partner of the main character, speaks Armenian during all the span of the film. As a matter of fact, the person who stars for him is an American Armenian actor Ken Davitian. He uses the mixture of the Eastern and Western Armenian dialects. I donâEUR(tm)t remember what language Borat speaks, to the best of my memory, itâEUR(tm)s either / both Russian or / and Kazakh but itâEUR(tm)s definitely not Armenian. However, viewers donâEUR(tm)t know this and follow the subtitles being under the impression the characters sound the same language.

âEUR¦The quality of this film is a different topic.

Best,
Ashot Vardanyan,
University of Iowa.


04/06 17:25 "Michele A. Berdy" <maberdy at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> Seelangers, o ye who know and see all...
>
> Have any of you seen a multi-language film with sub-titles that
> distinguish between the languages spoken? If so, how did the
> sub-titles make the language distinction clear? Font? Italics?
> Other?
>
> Feel free to send comments off list (this is fairly obscure...)
> Thanks
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your
> subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface
> at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>


--
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Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.8/1363 - Release Date: 4/7/2008 8:56 AM


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
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From sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET  Tue Apr  8 16:54:05 2008
From: sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET (Sarah Hurst)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 08:54:05 -0800
Subject: > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
In-Reply-To: <AEECB16E79B57342806128D46AF168790299368D@HC-MAIL10.healthcare.uiowa.edu>
Message-ID: <TUE.8.APR.2008.085405.0800.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

I think the film attempted to offend as many different racial and minority
groups as it could - and succeeded!

Sarah Hurst

-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
[mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Vardanyan, Ashot
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 8:47 AM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles

Anyway, if it comes to my personal opinion, I was not very happy to hear my
mother tongue in such a mean film. I had a feeling my language was
associated with the humiliating plot of the content. Now, I think some Jews
could have the same view.
 
Ashot

________________________________

From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list on
behalf of Evgeny Steiner
Sent: Tue 08-Apr-08 10:02
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles



-----Original Message-----
From: Sarah Hurst <sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET>
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 13:24:36 -0800
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles

It's nonsense if one is talking Hebrew, the other is replying in Armenian,
and they are both pretending to be speaking Kazakh.

Oh, I thought it was a rather cunning joke to make that Anti-Semitic
simpleton to speak Hebrew. But possibly the authors of Borat had to be more
considerate to those film critics to whom either Armenian or Hebrew sound
like nonsense.

ES
-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
[mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Evgeny Steiner
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 11:45 AM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles

"Really a nonsense language"???
Sasha Baron-Cohen was talking good Hebrew.

Evgeny Steiner
Sainsbury Inst. for the Japanese Art

-----Original Message-----
From: Sarah Hurst <sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET>
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 10:52:48 -0800
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles

In Borat the two main characters are supposed to be speaking the same
language to each other (ostensibly Kazakh). As it's really a nonsense
language each actor just speaks in whatever foreign language he knows, with
Sasha Baron-Cohen throwing in quite a few Polish words, I think. So it
wouldn't really make sense to differentiate the subtitles and indicate that
one actor is speaking Armenian.

Sarah Hurst

-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
[mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ashot Vardanyan
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 10:31 AM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles

Dear Michele,

My notes are somewhat different from what you want but might be of interest
as well.

I want to share my observation and impression on the language(s) and
subtitles of two films âEUR" Russian âEURoePrisoner of MountainâEUR
(âEURoeKavkazskii plennikâEUR) and American / British âEURoeBorat: cultural
learnings of America for make benefit glorious nation of KazakhstanâEUR. In
both films the non-Armenian viewer naively reckons s/he hears the same
language from the characters as s/he reads the English subtitles.

The scene of the former is set in the Russian North Caucasus, supposedly in
Chechnya, the country that definitely has its own language. The filmmakers,
however, run a unique trick: the local men and women speak in the main three
languages of the entire Caucasus: Georgian, Azerbaijani, which is very
similar to Turkish, and Armenian. There might be other Caucasian languages
that I donâEUR(tm)t know; however, from the outset, it was unusual to hear
Georgian between Abdul-Murat and his daughter, but later the idea of the
producers became clear: they probably aimed at demonstrating the commonality
of all Caucasians which is, in turn, very dissonant to truth. The entire
Caucasus is a bundle of problems.

Armenian, my language, is represented by its âEURoehamshenaâEUR dialect
that is used by Armenians populating the Black Sea region. It appears only
in the episode of the childrenâEUR(tm)s talk, when a boy asks Dina if it is
already time for her to marry. It seems to me, this is also political. The
filmmakers couldnâEUR(tm)t help knowing that Armenia and Russia are allies
in all domains, whereas Georgia and Azerbaijan informally supported
ChechnyaâEUR(tm)s insurgency and had other conflicts in their relations with
Russia.

In âEURoeBoratâEUR¦âEUR, Azamat Bagatov, the partner of the main character,
speaks Armenian during all the span of the film. As a matter of fact, the
person who stars for him is an American Armenian actor Ken Davitian. He uses
the mixture of the Eastern and Western Armenian dialects. I donâEUR(tm)t
remember what language Borat speaks, to the best of my memory, itâEUR(tm)s
either / both Russian or / and Kazakh but itâEUR(tm)s definitely not
Armenian. However, viewers donâEUR(tm)t know this and follow the subtitles
being under the impression the characters sound the same language.

âEUR¦The quality of this film is a different topic.

Best,
Ashot Vardanyan,
University of Iowa.


04/06 17:25 "Michele A. Berdy" <maberdy at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> Seelangers, o ye who know and see all...
>
> Have any of you seen a multi-language film with sub-titles that
> distinguish between the languages spoken? If so, how did the
> sub-titles make the language distinction clear? Font? Italics?
> Other?
>
> Feel free to send comments off list (this is fairly obscure...)
> Thanks
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your
> subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface
> at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>


--
http://www.freenet.am/

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From wfr at SAS.AC.UK  Tue Apr  8 17:08:23 2008
From: wfr at SAS.AC.UK (William Ryan)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 18:08:23 +0100
Subject: > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
In-Reply-To: <002f01c89999$288749a0$0101a8c0@Bitches>
Message-ID: <TUE.8.APR.2008.180823.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Menippean satire is therapeutic. A shared sense of outrage may break 
down barriers and reveal essentials perhaps?

Will Ryan


Sarah Hurst wrote:
> I think the film attempted to offend as many different racial and minority
> groups as it could - and succeeded!
>
> Sarah Hurst
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Vardanyan, Ashot
> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 8:47 AM
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>
> Anyway, if it comes to my personal opinion, I was not very happy to hear my
> mother tongue in such a mean film. I had a feeling my language was
> associated with the humiliating plot of the content. Now, I think some Jews
> could have the same view.
>  
> Ashot
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list on
> behalf of Evgeny Steiner
> Sent: Tue 08-Apr-08 10:02
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sarah Hurst <sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET>
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 13:24:36 -0800
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>
> It's nonsense if one is talking Hebrew, the other is replying in Armenian,
> and they are both pretending to be speaking Kazakh.
>
> Oh, I thought it was a rather cunning joke to make that Anti-Semitic
> simpleton to speak Hebrew. But possibly the authors of Borat had to be more
> considerate to those film critics to whom either Armenian or Hebrew sound
> like nonsense.
>
> ES
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Evgeny Steiner
> Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 11:45 AM
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>
> "Really a nonsense language"???
> Sasha Baron-Cohen was talking good Hebrew.
>
> Evgeny Steiner
> Sainsbury Inst. for the Japanese Art
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sarah Hurst <sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET>
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 10:52:48 -0800
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>
> In Borat the two main characters are supposed to be speaking the same
> language to each other (ostensibly Kazakh). As it's really a nonsense
> language each actor just speaks in whatever foreign language he knows, with
> Sasha Baron-Cohen throwing in quite a few Polish words, I think. So it
> wouldn't really make sense to differentiate the subtitles and indicate that
> one actor is speaking Armenian.
>
> Sarah Hurst
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ashot Vardanyan
> Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 10:31 AM
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>
> Dear Michele,
>
> My notes are somewhat different from what you want but might be of interest
> as well.
>
> I want to share my observation and impression on the language(s) and
> subtitles of two films âEUR" Russian âEURoePrisoner of MountainâEUR
> (âEURoeKavkazskii plennikâEUR) and American / British âEURoeBorat: cultural
> learnings of America for make benefit glorious nation of KazakhstanâEUR. In
> both films the non-Armenian viewer naively reckons s/he hears the same
> language from the characters as s/he reads the English subtitles.
>
> The scene of the former is set in the Russian North Caucasus, supposedly in
> Chechnya, the country that definitely has its own language. The filmmakers,
> however, run a unique trick: the local men and women speak in the main three
> languages of the entire Caucasus: Georgian, Azerbaijani, which is very
> similar to Turkish, and Armenian. There might be other Caucasian languages
> that I donâEUR(tm)t know; however, from the outset, it was unusual to hear
> Georgian between Abdul-Murat and his daughter, but later the idea of the
> producers became clear: they probably aimed at demonstrating the commonality
> of all Caucasians which is, in turn, very dissonant to truth. The entire
> Caucasus is a bundle of problems.
>
> Armenian, my language, is represented by its âEURoehamshenaâEUR dialect
> that is used by Armenians populating the Black Sea region. It appears only
> in the episode of the childrenâEUR(tm)s talk, when a boy asks Dina if it is
> already time for her to marry. It seems to me, this is also political. The
> filmmakers couldnâEUR(tm)t help knowing that Armenia and Russia are allies
> in all domains, whereas Georgia and Azerbaijan informally supported
> ChechnyaâEUR(tm)s insurgency and had other conflicts in their relations with
> Russia.
>
> In âEURoeBoratâEUR¦âEUR, Azamat Bagatov, the partner of the main character,
> speaks Armenian during all the span of the film. As a matter of fact, the
> person who stars for him is an American Armenian actor Ken Davitian. He uses
> the mixture of the Eastern and Western Armenian dialects. I donâEUR(tm)t
> remember what language Borat speaks, to the best of my memory, itâEUR(tm)s
> either / both Russian or / and Kazakh but itâEUR(tm)s definitely not
> Armenian. However, viewers donâEUR(tm)t know this and follow the subtitles
> being under the impression the characters sound the same language.
>
> âEUR¦The quality of this film is a different topic.
>
> Best,
> Ashot Vardanyan,
> University of Iowa.
>
>
> 04/06 17:25 "Michele A. Berdy" <maberdy at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>   
>> Seelangers, o ye who know and see all...
>>
>> Have any of you seen a multi-language film with sub-titles that
>> distinguish between the languages spoken? If so, how did the
>> sub-titles make the language distinction clear? Font? Italics?
>> Other?
>>
>> Feel free to send comments off list (this is fairly obscure...)
>> Thanks
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your
>> subscription
>>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface
>> at:
>>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     
>
>
> --
> http://www.freenet.am/
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.8/1363 - Release Date: 4/7/2008
> 8:56 AM
>
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.8/1363 - Release Date: 4/7/2008
> 8:56 AM
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.8/1363 - Release Date: 4/7/2008
> 8:56 AM
>
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.8/1363 - Release Date: 4/7/2008
> 8:56 AM
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG. 
> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.9/1365 - Release Date: 4/8/2008
> 7:30 AM
>  
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG. 
> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.9/1365 - Release Date: 4/8/2008
> 7:30 AM
>  
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>   

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From sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET  Tue Apr  8 17:17:44 2008
From: sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET (Sarah Hurst)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 09:17:44 -0800
Subject: > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
In-Reply-To: <47FBA687.9050809@sas.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <TUE.8.APR.2008.091744.0800.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

I found it very funny myself...

Sarah

-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
[mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of William Ryan
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 9:08 AM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles

Menippean satire is therapeutic. A shared sense of outrage may break 
down barriers and reveal essentials perhaps?

Will Ryan


Sarah Hurst wrote:
> I think the film attempted to offend as many different racial and minority
> groups as it could - and succeeded!
>
> Sarah Hurst
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Vardanyan, Ashot
> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 8:47 AM
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>
> Anyway, if it comes to my personal opinion, I was not very happy to hear
my
> mother tongue in such a mean film. I had a feeling my language was
> associated with the humiliating plot of the content. Now, I think some
Jews
> could have the same view.
>  
> Ashot
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list on
> behalf of Evgeny Steiner
> Sent: Tue 08-Apr-08 10:02
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sarah Hurst <sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET>
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 13:24:36 -0800
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>
> It's nonsense if one is talking Hebrew, the other is replying in Armenian,
> and they are both pretending to be speaking Kazakh.
>
> Oh, I thought it was a rather cunning joke to make that Anti-Semitic
> simpleton to speak Hebrew. But possibly the authors of Borat had to be
more
> considerate to those film critics to whom either Armenian or Hebrew sound
> like nonsense.
>
> ES
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Evgeny Steiner
> Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 11:45 AM
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>
> "Really a nonsense language"???
> Sasha Baron-Cohen was talking good Hebrew.
>
> Evgeny Steiner
> Sainsbury Inst. for the Japanese Art
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sarah Hurst <sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET>
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 10:52:48 -0800
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>
> In Borat the two main characters are supposed to be speaking the same
> language to each other (ostensibly Kazakh). As it's really a nonsense
> language each actor just speaks in whatever foreign language he knows,
with
> Sasha Baron-Cohen throwing in quite a few Polish words, I think. So it
> wouldn't really make sense to differentiate the subtitles and indicate
that
> one actor is speaking Armenian.
>
> Sarah Hurst
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ashot Vardanyan
> Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 10:31 AM
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>
> Dear Michele,
>
> My notes are somewhat different from what you want but might be of
interest
> as well.
>
> I want to share my observation and impression on the language(s) and
> subtitles of two films âEUR" Russian âEURoePrisoner of MountainâEUR
> (âEURoeKavkazskii plennikâEUR) and American / British âEURoeBorat:
cultural
> learnings of America for make benefit glorious nation of KazakhstanâEUR.
In
> both films the non-Armenian viewer naively reckons s/he hears the same
> language from the characters as s/he reads the English subtitles.
>
> The scene of the former is set in the Russian North Caucasus, supposedly
in
> Chechnya, the country that definitely has its own language. The
filmmakers,
> however, run a unique trick: the local men and women speak in the main
three
> languages of the entire Caucasus: Georgian, Azerbaijani, which is very
> similar to Turkish, and Armenian. There might be other Caucasian languages
> that I donâEUR(tm)t know; however, from the outset, it was unusual to hear
> Georgian between Abdul-Murat and his daughter, but later the idea of the
> producers became clear: they probably aimed at demonstrating the
commonality
> of all Caucasians which is, in turn, very dissonant to truth. The entire
> Caucasus is a bundle of problems.
>
> Armenian, my language, is represented by its âEURoehamshenaâEUR dialect
> that is used by Armenians populating the Black Sea region. It appears only
> in the episode of the childrenâEUR(tm)s talk, when a boy asks Dina if it
is
> already time for her to marry. It seems to me, this is also political. The
> filmmakers couldnâEUR(tm)t help knowing that Armenia and Russia are allies
> in all domains, whereas Georgia and Azerbaijan informally supported
> ChechnyaâEUR(tm)s insurgency and had other conflicts in their relations
with
> Russia.
>
> In âEURoeBoratâEUR¦âEUR, Azamat Bagatov, the partner of the main
character,
> speaks Armenian during all the span of the film. As a matter of fact, the
> person who stars for him is an American Armenian actor Ken Davitian. He
uses
> the mixture of the Eastern and Western Armenian dialects. I donâEUR(tm)t
> remember what language Borat speaks, to the best of my memory, itâEUR(tm)s
> either / both Russian or / and Kazakh but itâEUR(tm)s definitely not
> Armenian. However, viewers donâEUR(tm)t know this and follow the subtitles
> being under the impression the characters sound the same language.
>
> âEUR¦The quality of this film is a different topic.
>
> Best,
> Ashot Vardanyan,
> University of Iowa.
>
>
> 04/06 17:25 "Michele A. Berdy" <maberdy at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>   
>> Seelangers, o ye who know and see all...
>>
>> Have any of you seen a multi-language film with sub-titles that
>> distinguish between the languages spoken? If so, how did the
>> sub-titles make the language distinction clear? Font? Italics?
>> Other?
>>
>> Feel free to send comments off list (this is fairly obscure...)
>> Thanks
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your
>> subscription
>>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface
>> at:
>>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     
>
>
> --
> http://www.freenet.am/
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.8/1363 - Release Date: 4/7/2008
> 8:56 AM
>
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.8/1363 - Release Date: 4/7/2008
> 8:56 AM
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.8/1363 - Release Date: 4/7/2008
> 8:56 AM
>
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.8/1363 - Release Date: 4/7/2008
> 8:56 AM
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG. 
> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.9/1365 - Release Date: 4/8/2008
> 7:30 AM
>  
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG. 
> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.9/1365 - Release Date: 4/8/2008
> 7:30 AM
>  
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
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>
>
>   

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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG. 
Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.9/1365 - Release Date: 4/8/2008
7:30 AM
 

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG. 
Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.9/1365 - Release Date: 4/8/2008
7:30 AM
 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From buzzpolice at GMAIL.COM  Tue Apr  8 17:26:08 2008
From: buzzpolice at GMAIL.COM (buzz police)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 12:26:08 -0500
Subject: Introducing Buzz Police
Message-ID: <TUE.8.APR.2008.122608.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Seelangers,
Finally Buzz Police is here to help us.  Introducing Buzz Police!!! The
whole purpose of which is to Buzz threads and discussions on Seelangs that
become idiotic, obsolete, or simply too long, but for some reason refuse to
stop.  Buzz Police is here to help!!!  Buzz Police is therapeutic!!!  It
fosters healthy self-consciousness.  And provides necessary comic relief.
Yes, there has been too much email coming from Seelangs.  Keep our mailboxes
unclogged by unimportant messages!!!  If you feel like you need to continue
conversing, keep it OFF the LIST.  Buzz Police is your friend!!!

Sarah Hurst from Alaska!!!  Your remarks on Borat have been BUZZED!!!

All the best and until soon!!!
Buzz Police!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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From es9 at SOAS.AC.UK  Tue Apr  8 18:06:52 2008
From: es9 at SOAS.AC.UK (Evgeny Steiner)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 18:06:52 +0000
Subject: > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
Message-ID: <TUE.8.APR.2008.180652.0000.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Well said, Will. But I suspect that some militant champions for PC wouldn't agree. Especially those who did not notice that the biggest target was not any racial or minority group at all but the mainstream Americans. 
I did not find 'Borat' very funny (not a great piece of cinema evidently), but it has some subtle points - not for the general audience, perhaps).

ES

-----Original Message-----
From: William Ryan <wfr at SAS.AC.UK>
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 18:08:23 +0100
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles

Menippean satire is therapeutic. A shared sense of outrage may break 
down barriers and reveal essentials perhaps?

Will Ryan


Sarah Hurst wrote:
> I think the film attempted to offend as many different racial and minority
> groups as it could - and succeeded!
>
> Sarah Hurst
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Vardanyan, Ashot
> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 8:47 AM
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>
> Anyway, if it comes to my personal opinion, I was not very happy to hear my
> mother tongue in such a mean film. I had a feeling my language was
> associated with the humiliating plot of the content. Now, I think some Jews
> could have the same view.
>  
> Ashot
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list on
> behalf of Evgeny Steiner
> Sent: Tue 08-Apr-08 10:02
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sarah Hurst <sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET>
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 13:24:36 -0800
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>
> It's nonsense if one is talking Hebrew, the other is replying in Armenian,
> and they are both pretending to be speaking Kazakh.
>
> Oh, I thought it was a rather cunning joke to make that Anti-Semitic
> simpleton to speak Hebrew. But possibly the authors of Borat had to be more
> considerate to those film critics to whom either Armenian or Hebrew sound
> like nonsense.
>
> ES
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Evgeny Steiner
> Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 11:45 AM
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>
> "Really a nonsense language"???
> Sasha Baron-Cohen was talking good Hebrew.
>
> Evgeny Steiner
> Sainsbury Inst. for the Japanese Art
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sarah Hurst <sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET>
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 10:52:48 -0800
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>
> In Borat the two main characters are supposed to be speaking the same
> language to each other (ostensibly Kazakh). As it's really a nonsense
> language each actor just speaks in whatever foreign language he knows, with
> Sasha Baron-Cohen throwing in quite a few Polish words, I think. So it
> wouldn't really make sense to differentiate the subtitles and indicate that
> one actor is speaking Armenian.
>
> Sarah Hurst
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ashot Vardanyan
> Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 10:31 AM
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>
> Dear Michele,
>
> My notes are somewhat different from what you want but might be of interest
> as well.
>
> I want to share my observation and impression on the language(s) and
> subtitles of two films âEUR" Russian âEURoePrisoner of MountainâEUR
> (âEURoeKavkazskii plennikâEUR) and American / British âEURoeBorat: cultural
> learnings of America for make benefit glorious nation of KazakhstanâEUR. In
> both films the non-Armenian viewer naively reckons s/he hears the same
> language from the characters as s/he reads the English subtitles.
>
> The scene of the former is set in the Russian North Caucasus, supposedly in
> Chechnya, the country that definitely has its own language. The filmmakers,
> however, run a unique trick: the local men and women speak in the main three
> languages of the entire Caucasus: Georgian, Azerbaijani, which is very
> similar to Turkish, and Armenian. There might be other Caucasian languages
> that I donâEUR(tm)t know; however, from the outset, it was unusual to hear
> Georgian between Abdul-Murat and his daughter, but later the idea of the
> producers became clear: they probably aimed at demonstrating the commonality
> of all Caucasians which is, in turn, very dissonant to truth. The entire
> Caucasus is a bundle of problems.
>
> Armenian, my language, is represented by its âEURoehamshenaâEUR dialect
> that is used by Armenians populating the Black Sea region. It appears only
> in the episode of the childrenâEUR(tm)s talk, when a boy asks Dina if it is
> already time for her to marry. It seems to me, this is also political. The
> filmmakers couldnâEUR(tm)t help knowing that Armenia and Russia are allies
> in all domains, whereas Georgia and Azerbaijan informally supported
> ChechnyaâEUR(tm)s insurgency and had other conflicts in their relations with
> Russia.
>
> In âEURoeBoratâEUR¦âEUR, Azamat Bagatov, the partner of the main character,
> speaks Armenian during all the span of the film. As a matter of fact, the
> person who stars for him is an American Armenian actor Ken Davitian. He uses
> the mixture of the Eastern and Western Armenian dialects. I donâEUR(tm)t
> remember what language Borat speaks, to the best of my memory, itâEUR(tm)s
> either / both Russian or / and Kazakh but itâEUR(tm)s definitely not
> Armenian. However, viewers donâEUR(tm)t know this and follow the subtitles
> being under the impression the characters sound the same language.
>
> âEUR¦The quality of this film is a different topic.
>
> Best,
> Ashot Vardanyan,
> University of Iowa.
>
>
> 04/06 17:25 "Michele A. Berdy" <maberdy at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>   
>> Seelangers, o ye who know and see all...
>>
>> Have any of you seen a multi-language film with sub-titles that
>> distinguish between the languages spoken? If so, how did the
>> sub-titles make the language distinction clear? Font? Italics?
>> Other?
>>
>> Feel free to send comments off list (this is fairly obscure...)
>> Thanks
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your
>> subscription
>>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface
>> at:
>>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     
>
>
> --
> http://www.freenet.am/
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.8/1363 - Release Date: 4/7/2008
> 8:56 AM
>
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.8/1363 - Release Date: 4/7/2008
> 8:56 AM
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
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> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.8/1363 - Release Date: 4/7/2008
> 8:56 AM
>
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.8/1363 - Release Date: 4/7/2008
> 8:56 AM
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG. 
> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.9/1365 - Release Date: 4/8/2008
> 7:30 AM
>  
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG. 
> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.9/1365 - Release Date: 4/8/2008
> 7:30 AM
>  
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>   

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From wfr at SAS.AC.UK  Tue Apr  8 18:45:00 2008
From: wfr at SAS.AC.UK (William Ryan)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 19:45:00 +0100
Subject: > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
In-Reply-To: <004001c8999c$75c01690$0101a8c0@Bitches>
Message-ID: <TUE.8.APR.2008.194500.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Me too - but he hasn't hit me where it hurts yet. Perhaps I am being 
discriminated against?
Will


Sarah Hurst wrote:
> I found it very funny myself...
>
> Sarah
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of William Ryan
> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 9:08 AM
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>
> Menippean satire is therapeutic. A shared sense of outrage may break 
> down barriers and reveal essentials perhaps?
>
> Will Ryan
>
>
> Sarah Hurst wrote:
>   
>> I think the film attempted to offend as many different racial and minority
>> groups as it could - and succeeded!
>>
>> Sarah Hurst
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
>> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Vardanyan, Ashot
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 8:47 AM
>> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>>
>> Anyway, if it comes to my personal opinion, I was not very happy to hear
>>     
> my
>   
>> mother tongue in such a mean film. I had a feeling my language was
>> associated with the humiliating plot of the content. Now, I think some
>>     
> Jews
>   
>> could have the same view.
>>  
>> Ashot
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list on
>> behalf of Evgeny Steiner
>> Sent: Tue 08-Apr-08 10:02
>> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Sarah Hurst <sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET>
>> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
>> Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 13:24:36 -0800
>> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>>
>> It's nonsense if one is talking Hebrew, the other is replying in Armenian,
>> and they are both pretending to be speaking Kazakh.
>>
>> Oh, I thought it was a rather cunning joke to make that Anti-Semitic
>> simpleton to speak Hebrew. But possibly the authors of Borat had to be
>>     
> more
>   
>> considerate to those film critics to whom either Armenian or Hebrew sound
>> like nonsense.
>>
>> ES
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
>> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Evgeny Steiner
>> Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 11:45 AM
>> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>>
>> "Really a nonsense language"???
>> Sasha Baron-Cohen was talking good Hebrew.
>>
>> Evgeny Steiner
>> Sainsbury Inst. for the Japanese Art
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Sarah Hurst <sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET>
>> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
>> Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 10:52:48 -0800
>> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>>
>> In Borat the two main characters are supposed to be speaking the same
>> language to each other (ostensibly Kazakh). As it's really a nonsense
>> language each actor just speaks in whatever foreign language he knows,
>>     
> with
>   
>> Sasha Baron-Cohen throwing in quite a few Polish words, I think. So it
>> wouldn't really make sense to differentiate the subtitles and indicate
>>     
> that
>   
>> one actor is speaking Armenian.
>>
>> Sarah Hurst
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
>> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ashot Vardanyan
>> Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 10:31 AM
>> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
>> Subject: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>>
>> Dear Michele,
>>
>> My notes are somewhat different from what you want but might be of
>>     
> interest
>   
>> as well.
>>
>> I want to share my observation and impression on the language(s) and
>> subtitles of two films âEUR" Russian âEURoePrisoner of MountainâEUR
>> (âEURoeKavkazskii plennikâEUR) and American / British âEURoeBorat:
>>     
> cultural
>   
>> learnings of America for make benefit glorious nation of KazakhstanâEUR.
>>     
> In
>   
>> both films the non-Armenian viewer naively reckons s/he hears the same
>> language from the characters as s/he reads the English subtitles.
>>
>> The scene of the former is set in the Russian North Caucasus, supposedly
>>     
> in
>   
>> Chechnya, the country that definitely has its own language. The
>>     
> filmmakers,
>   
>> however, run a unique trick: the local men and women speak in the main
>>     
> three
>   
>> languages of the entire Caucasus: Georgian, Azerbaijani, which is very
>> similar to Turkish, and Armenian. There might be other Caucasian languages
>> that I donâEUR(tm)t know; however, from the outset, it was unusual to hear
>> Georgian between Abdul-Murat and his daughter, but later the idea of the
>> producers became clear: they probably aimed at demonstrating the
>>     
> commonality
>   
>> of all Caucasians which is, in turn, very dissonant to truth. The entire
>> Caucasus is a bundle of problems.
>>
>> Armenian, my language, is represented by its âEURoehamshenaâEUR dialect
>> that is used by Armenians populating the Black Sea region. It appears only
>> in the episode of the childrenâEUR(tm)s talk, when a boy asks Dina if it
>>     
> is
>   
>> already time for her to marry. It seems to me, this is also political. The
>> filmmakers couldnâEUR(tm)t help knowing that Armenia and Russia are allies
>> in all domains, whereas Georgia and Azerbaijan informally supported
>> ChechnyaâEUR(tm)s insurgency and had other conflicts in their relations
>>     
> with
>   
>> Russia.
>>
>> In âEURoeBoratâEUR¦âEUR, Azamat Bagatov, the partner of the main
>>     
> character,
>   
>> speaks Armenian during all the span of the film. As a matter of fact, the
>> person who stars for him is an American Armenian actor Ken Davitian. He
>>     
> uses
>   
>> the mixture of the Eastern and Western Armenian dialects. I donâEUR(tm)t
>> remember what language Borat speaks, to the best of my memory, itâEUR(tm)s
>> either / both Russian or / and Kazakh but itâEUR(tm)s definitely not
>> Armenian. However, viewers donâEUR(tm)t know this and follow the subtitles
>> being under the impression the characters sound the same language.
>>
>> âEUR¦The quality of this film is a different topic.
>>
>> Best,
>> Ashot Vardanyan,
>> University of Iowa.
>>
>>
>> 04/06 17:25 "Michele A. Berdy" <maberdy at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>   
>>     
>>> Seelangers, o ye who know and see all...
>>>
>>> Have any of you seen a multi-language film with sub-titles that
>>> distinguish between the languages spoken? If so, how did the
>>> sub-titles make the language distinction clear? Font? Italics?
>>> Other?
>>>
>>> Feel free to send comments off list (this is fairly obscure...)
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your
>>> subscription
>>>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface
>>> at:
>>>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     
>>>       
>> --
>> http://www.freenet.am/
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG.
>> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.8/1363 - Release Date: 4/7/2008
>> 8:56 AM
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
>> Checked by AVG.
>> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.8/1363 - Release Date: 4/7/2008
>> 8:56 AM
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG.
>> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.8/1363 - Release Date: 4/7/2008
>> 8:56 AM
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
>> Checked by AVG.
>> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.8/1363 - Release Date: 4/7/2008
>> 8:56 AM
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG. 
>> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.9/1365 - Release Date: 4/8/2008
>> 7:30 AM
>>  
>>
>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
>> Checked by AVG. 
>> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.9/1365 - Release Date: 4/8/2008
>> 7:30 AM
>>  
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>   
>>     
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG. 
> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.9/1365 - Release Date: 4/8/2008
> 7:30 AM
>  
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG. 
> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.9/1365 - Release Date: 4/8/2008
> 7:30 AM
>  
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
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>
>   

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From sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET  Tue Apr  8 18:46:40 2008
From: sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET (Sarah Hurst)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 10:46:40 -0800
Subject: > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
In-Reply-To: <47FBBD2C.4050407@sas.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <TUE.8.APR.2008.104640.0800.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

I can't reply, I've been policed.

Sarah

-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
[mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of William Ryan
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 10:45 AM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles

Me too - but he hasn't hit me where it hurts yet. Perhaps I am being 
discriminated against?
Will


Sarah Hurst wrote:
> I found it very funny myself...
>
> Sarah
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of William Ryan
> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 9:08 AM
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>
> Menippean satire is therapeutic. A shared sense of outrage may break 
> down barriers and reveal essentials perhaps?
>
> Will Ryan
>
>
> Sarah Hurst wrote:
>   
>> I think the film attempted to offend as many different racial and
minority
>> groups as it could - and succeeded!
>>
>> Sarah Hurst
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
>> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Vardanyan, Ashot
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 8:47 AM
>> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>>
>> Anyway, if it comes to my personal opinion, I was not very happy to hear
>>     
> my
>   
>> mother tongue in such a mean film. I had a feeling my language was
>> associated with the humiliating plot of the content. Now, I think some
>>     
> Jews
>   
>> could have the same view.
>>  
>> Ashot
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list on
>> behalf of Evgeny Steiner
>> Sent: Tue 08-Apr-08 10:02
>> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Sarah Hurst <sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET>
>> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
>> Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 13:24:36 -0800
>> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>>
>> It's nonsense if one is talking Hebrew, the other is replying in
Armenian,
>> and they are both pretending to be speaking Kazakh.
>>
>> Oh, I thought it was a rather cunning joke to make that Anti-Semitic
>> simpleton to speak Hebrew. But possibly the authors of Borat had to be
>>     
> more
>   
>> considerate to those film critics to whom either Armenian or Hebrew sound
>> like nonsense.
>>
>> ES
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
>> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Evgeny Steiner
>> Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 11:45 AM
>> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>>
>> "Really a nonsense language"???
>> Sasha Baron-Cohen was talking good Hebrew.
>>
>> Evgeny Steiner
>> Sainsbury Inst. for the Japanese Art
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Sarah Hurst <sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET>
>> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
>> Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 10:52:48 -0800
>> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>>
>> In Borat the two main characters are supposed to be speaking the same
>> language to each other (ostensibly Kazakh). As it's really a nonsense
>> language each actor just speaks in whatever foreign language he knows,
>>     
> with
>   
>> Sasha Baron-Cohen throwing in quite a few Polish words, I think. So it
>> wouldn't really make sense to differentiate the subtitles and indicate
>>     
> that
>   
>> one actor is speaking Armenian.
>>
>> Sarah Hurst
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
>> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ashot Vardanyan
>> Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 10:31 AM
>> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
>> Subject: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>>
>> Dear Michele,
>>
>> My notes are somewhat different from what you want but might be of
>>     
> interest
>   
>> as well.
>>
>> I want to share my observation and impression on the language(s) and
>> subtitles of two films âEUR" Russian âEURoePrisoner of MountainâEUR
>> (âEURoeKavkazskii plennikâEUR) and American / British âEURoeBorat:
>>     
> cultural
>   
>> learnings of America for make benefit glorious nation of KazakhstanâEUR.
>>     
> In
>   
>> both films the non-Armenian viewer naively reckons s/he hears the same
>> language from the characters as s/he reads the English subtitles.
>>
>> The scene of the former is set in the Russian North Caucasus, supposedly
>>     
> in
>   
>> Chechnya, the country that definitely has its own language. The
>>     
> filmmakers,
>   
>> however, run a unique trick: the local men and women speak in the main
>>     
> three
>   
>> languages of the entire Caucasus: Georgian, Azerbaijani, which is very
>> similar to Turkish, and Armenian. There might be other Caucasian
languages
>> that I donâEUR(tm)t know; however, from the outset, it was unusual to
hear
>> Georgian between Abdul-Murat and his daughter, but later the idea of the
>> producers became clear: they probably aimed at demonstrating the
>>     
> commonality
>   
>> of all Caucasians which is, in turn, very dissonant to truth. The entire
>> Caucasus is a bundle of problems.
>>
>> Armenian, my language, is represented by its âEURoehamshenaâEUR dialect
>> that is used by Armenians populating the Black Sea region. It appears
only
>> in the episode of the childrenâEUR(tm)s talk, when a boy asks Dina if it
>>     
> is
>   
>> already time for her to marry. It seems to me, this is also political.
The
>> filmmakers couldnâEUR(tm)t help knowing that Armenia and Russia are
allies
>> in all domains, whereas Georgia and Azerbaijan informally supported
>> ChechnyaâEUR(tm)s insurgency and had other conflicts in their relations
>>     
> with
>   
>> Russia.
>>
>> In âEURoeBoratâEUR¦âEUR, Azamat Bagatov, the partner of the main
>>     
> character,
>   
>> speaks Armenian during all the span of the film. As a matter of fact, the
>> person who stars for him is an American Armenian actor Ken Davitian. He
>>     
> uses
>   
>> the mixture of the Eastern and Western Armenian dialects. I donâEUR(tm)t
>> remember what language Borat speaks, to the best of my memory,
itâEUR(tm)s
>> either / both Russian or / and Kazakh but itâEUR(tm)s definitely not
>> Armenian. However, viewers donâEUR(tm)t know this and follow the
subtitles
>> being under the impression the characters sound the same language.
>>
>> âEUR¦The quality of this film is a different topic.
>>
>> Best,
>> Ashot Vardanyan,
>> University of Iowa.
>>
>>
>> 04/06 17:25 "Michele A. Berdy" <maberdy at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>   
>>     
>>> Seelangers, o ye who know and see all...
>>>
>>> Have any of you seen a multi-language film with sub-titles that
>>> distinguish between the languages spoken? If so, how did the
>>> sub-titles make the language distinction clear? Font? Italics?
>>> Other?
>>>
>>> Feel free to send comments off list (this is fairly obscure...)
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     
>>>       
>> --
>> http://www.freenet.am/
>>
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From wfr at SAS.AC.UK  Tue Apr  8 19:19:47 2008
From: wfr at SAS.AC.UK (William Ryan)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 20:19:47 +0100
Subject: Introducing Buzz Police
In-Reply-To: <fdb352620804081026me2e9607uaafbca270b1fc164@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.8.APR.2008.201947.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

*Found on the Gower Street site just now:
*

    *Buzz police*: (Noun) professionals charged with searching out
    ongoing conversations (usu. online) applying to certain companies or
    other interests, with the intention of either defending said company
    or interest if shown unfavourably, or else discrediting the source
    of this unfavourable conversation. (Ex.: "I posted something
    negative about Wal-Mart, and the *buzz police* filled my comment box
    with propaganda!").

It must be true - I found it on the web. And if the Kazakh Fuzz is going 
to run this list I shall emigrate.

Will



buzz police wrote:
> Dear Seelangers,
> Finally Buzz Police is here to help us.  Introducing Buzz Police!!! The
> whole purpose of which is to Buzz threads and discussions on Seelangs that
> become idiotic, obsolete, or simply too long, but for some reason refuse to
> stop.  Buzz Police is here to help!!!  Buzz Police is therapeutic!!!  It
> fosters healthy self-consciousness.  And provides necessary comic relief.
> Yes, there has been too much email coming from Seelangs.  Keep our mailboxes
> unclogged by unimportant messages!!!  If you feel like you need to continue
> conversing, keep it OFF the LIST.  Buzz Police is your friend!!!
>
> Sarah Hurst from Alaska!!!  Your remarks on Borat have been BUZZED!!!
>
> All the best and until soon!!!
> Buzz Police!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
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>
>
>   

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From alex.rudd at GMAIL.COM  Tue Apr  8 19:53:16 2008
From: alex.rudd at GMAIL.COM (Alex Rudd)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 12:53:16 -0700
Subject: SEELANGS Administrivia - The "Buzz Police"
Message-ID: <TUE.8.APR.2008.125316.0700.>

Dear SEELANGS members,

I will keep this short and sweet.  "Buzz Police" is a distraction on
this list.   Please ignore him or her and try to pretend that he or
she never posted that distracting message.  Please do not post any
additional messages even referencing this person.  I have removed the
"Buzz Police" subscription address from the list.  That address was
subscribed only yesterday, apparently by an existing subscriber
wishing to remain anonymous.

I have written to "Buzz Police" and, among other things, requested
that he or she post a public apology.  Should one be forthcoming, I
hope we will all find it within ourselves to forgive and forget.
Personally, I'm not holding my breath.

Having said that, let me say this:  Without addressing specific issues
raised by this anonymous person, I will point out something I've said
here numerous times.  We have guidelines on the SEELANGS list that
exist to facilitate the list's smooth operation and ensure its maximum
enjoyment by everyone.  When list members fail to observe even the
most basic of guidelines, that smooth operation is compromised.

The one guideline that is most often ignored is this one:

----- Begin -----

***** QUOTING TEXT FROM ORIGINAL MESSAGES *****

Because all posts to SEELANGS are archived, and because disk
space is a finite resource, list members are asked to pay
close attention when they reply to messages on the list and
quote text.  Including portions of original messages is fine,
as long as it's done to provide context for the reader and
is done selectively.  However, quoting entire original
messages within the body of replies, when the original messages
are more than just a few lines, is prohibited.  Not only
does it fill up our disk space with extraneous text, but
those list members receiving SEELANGS in DIGEST format are
forced to read through the same messages three and four
times.

----- End ----

Many of you (if not most by now) use an e-mail client program that
automatically appends the full text of a message to the bottom of your
reply to that message.  In some contexts, that is an appropriate use
of the technology (e.g., in the business world, it might be a good way
to document contract negotiations as they progress).  On an e-mail
discussion list, however, it's just not necessary.  So please, either
delete the entirety of that original message before posting your
reply, or else trim that quoted text judiciously, including only what
you need to include so that we all remember the original message.

If you no longer have a copy of the SEELANGS Welcome message
close at hand, you can grab a copy of the current version by sending
the command:

GET SEELANGS WELCOME

in the body of e-mail to:  LISTSERV at BAMA.UA.EDU

If you feel the need to discuss this little episode amongst
yourselves, please keep it off the list.  You're welcome to address
any comments to me off-list as well.

Thanks.

- Alex, list owner of SEELANGS
--
Alex Rudd
List owner e-mail: seelangs-request at bama.ua.edu
Personal e-mail: Alex.Rudd at gmail.com
http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
Any opinion expressed above is not necessarily shared by my employers.

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From kalbouss at MAC.COM  Tue Apr  8 21:10:08 2008
From: kalbouss at MAC.COM (George Kalbouss)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 17:10:08 -0400
Subject: > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
In-Reply-To: <000601c898f5$c8405d50$0101a8c0@Bitches>
Message-ID: <TUE.8.APR.2008.171008.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

True story.

	Years ago, I was in the audience for a production of "Faust" at the
Kirov Theater.  The lead female singer was Latvian, and thus sang her
role in Latvian.  The others all sang in Russian.  In a crucial scene,
Mephistopheles was seen overhearing her prayer (in Latvian) -- a few
moments later, he told Faust what he overheard, but in Russian. I
was waiting for him to brag that, in addition to all of his other 
superpowers,
he was also a superb linguist.   It  was hard to keep a straight face 
witnessing this interchange.

George Kalbouss
The Ohio State University
On Apr 7, 2008, at 5:24 PM, Sarah Hurst wrote:

> It's nonsense if one is talking Hebrew, the other is replying in 
> Armenian, and they are both pretending to be speaking Kazakh.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list 
> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Evgeny Steiner
> Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 11:45 AM
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>
> "Really a nonsense language"???
> Sasha Baron-Cohen was talking good Hebrew.
>
> Evgeny Steiner
> Sainsbury Inst. for the Japanese Art
>

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From xmas at UKR.NET  Tue Apr  8 21:48:12 2008
From: xmas at UKR.NET (Maria Dmytrieva)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 00:48:12 +0300
Subject: translator looking for a job
Message-ID: <WED.9.APR.2008.004812.0300.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

    
 Dear colleagues,    
    
I have a rather personal question although connected to the topic of this    
mailing list.    
I am a Fulbright Scholar, taking a master's program in linguistics in California    
State University, Northridge, starting last August.    
Before this I worked as a translator and interpreter with working languages    
English/Russian/Ukrainian in Kyiv.    
My husband who is also a translator and interpreter with the same working    
languages (Rus and Ukr being his nativ) joined me in September, and after he    
received a work permit in November we have been looking for local clients for    
him. He is highly skilled and he has some really good clients and pojects on his resume.    
Since then we have sent his resume (which was proof-read by a quailified    
English-speaking person) to more than 40 translation agencies here, in    
California. Most of them are in San-Fernando Valley, some in downtown LA.    
I am starting to get worried -- why don't they ever call back?    
What are we doing wrong? Should we try to contact translation agencies in other    
states?    
I would gladly accept any relevant advice or comments sent off-list.    
    
With best regards,    
Maria    

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From pstock at BRANDEIS.EDU  Tue Apr  8 22:44:56 2008
From: pstock at BRANDEIS.EDU (David Powelstock)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 18:44:56 -0400
Subject: > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
In-Reply-To: <37297c29ad5fbdcf1ec799c22c956b0d@mac.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.8.APR.2008.184456.0400.>

The International Revolution triumphant!

David Powelstock 

-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
[mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of George Kalbouss
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 5:10 PM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles

True story.

	Years ago, I was in the audience for a production of "Faust" at the
Kirov Theater.  The lead female singer was Latvian, and thus sang her
role in Latvian.  The others all sang in Russian.  In a crucial scene,
Mephistopheles was seen overhearing her prayer (in Latvian) -- a few
moments later, he told Faust what he overheard, but in Russian. I
was waiting for him to brag that, in addition to all of his other 
superpowers,
he was also a superb linguist.   It  was hard to keep a straight face 
witnessing this interchange.

George Kalbouss
The Ohio State University
On Apr 7, 2008, at 5:24 PM, Sarah Hurst wrote:

> It's nonsense if one is talking Hebrew, the other is replying in 
> Armenian, and they are both pretending to be speaking Kazakh.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list 
> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Evgeny Steiner
> Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 11:45 AM
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] sub-titles
>
> "Really a nonsense language"???
> Sasha Baron-Cohen was talking good Hebrew.
>
> Evgeny Steiner
> Sainsbury Inst. for the Japanese Art
>

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From aspektor at FAS.HARVARD.EDU  Tue Apr  8 23:49:13 2008
From: aspektor at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Alex Spektor)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 19:49:13 -0400
Subject: apology, etc.
Message-ID: <TUE.8.APR.2008.194913.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Sarah Hurst!!!!!!!!
I'm writing to apologize.  I'm really sorry if my message have in any way
offended or insulted you.  I did mean to provoke and I think there should be
place in public discussions for that.  The post was meant to be light-hearted
and joky, and even though now I understand that the choice of words was
inappropriate ("idiotic" was horrible!!!!), I still insist that I didn't mean
to offend anyone personally.  Especially someone I don't know.  I should also
say that Buzz Police (incorporated only too soon, alas!) wants to share in the
idiotism.  Personally I think your reply was smart and appropriate.  I'm
completely aware that the responsibility of getting angry responses is all
mine.  Yours was witty.  "Screw You" would also be ok with me.  I think what is
really scary in this situation is not my immature action, but the severity with
which the real police showed its face.  In his letter to me Alex Rudd correctly
identified me as a vigilante.  With this term I can only happily agree.  The
authoritative and threatening stance of Alex Rudd (who warned that he will
"find me") seems in contrast much more police-like than my email.  Rudd's
letter made the whole matter serious.  Especially in light of his inistence to
keep this away from the public space that is SEELANGS.   It is amazing to me
that Rudd's generous heart (which forgives and forgets) has enough space to fit
the first person plural pronoun of everyone on SEELANGS.  In a similar manner,
then, I apologize to you on behalf of everyone policing and policed.

Sincerely,
Buzz Police!!!!

P.S.  To show the difference between Buzz Police!!!!! and real police I'm
attaching some of Alex Rudd's letter to me.  The situation smells a bit like
Soviet Union, but perhaps it's just America.

Alex Rudd wrote:

Are you kidding me?
You have named yourself incorrectly.  "Buzz Vigilante" would be more
appropriate.
"Comic relief" is not what's needed.  If you perceive that there's a
problem with the SEELANGS list, then your remedy is to bring it to the
attention of the list owners and request some kind of relief.  It's
our job to address it, not yours.

At this point the proper thing for you to do would be to compose
another message to the entire list, using your real identity and your
real e-mail address, and apologize for your using really poor judgment
and for insulting Sarah Hurst.

While you're at it, apologize for wasting my time, too... because now,
thanks to you, I'm going to have to take the time to react to your
post by composing a message to the list addressing the whole
situation.
At this point, assuming you do own up to this little prank and behave
in a sufficiently contrite manner, I'm willing to have you remain on
the list (as your true self).  However, should you not own up to it,
and issue the appropriate apologies, then when I find out who you are,
and should you give me reason to look I _will_ find out, then I will
publicize your identity within the community and ban you from
SEELANGS.

- Alex, list owner of SEELANGS

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From pstock at BRANDEIS.EDU  Wed Apr  9 00:34:52 2008
From: pstock at BRANDEIS.EDU (David Powelstock)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 20:34:52 -0400
Subject: apology, etc.
In-Reply-To: <1207698553.47fc0479e1b8b@webmail.fas.harvard.edu>
Message-ID: <TUE.8.APR.2008.203452.0400.>

If Alex S. is banned from the list, count me out, too. What an overaction to
a misguided but ultimately harmless bit of irony! 

Sarah Hurst: thanks for your good humor and lighthearted response to
something that a less gracious person might easily have been humorless
about!

Alex S.: I make it my policy never to post anywhere anonymously, in large
part because it's a bit too disinhibiting! I have suffered for this policy
in the often nasty local political boards in my town, but at least my
conscience is clean. 

David Powelstock

-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
[mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Alex Spektor
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 7:49 PM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: [SEELANGS] apology, etc.
Importance: High

Dear Sarah Hurst!!!!!!!!
I'm writing to apologize.  I'm really sorry if my message have in any way
offended or insulted you.  I did mean to provoke and I think there should be
place in public discussions for that.  The post was meant to be
light-hearted
and joky, and even though now I understand that the choice of words was
inappropriate ("idiotic" was horrible!!!!), I still insist that I didn't
mean
to offend anyone personally.  Especially someone I don't know.  I should
also
say that Buzz Police (incorporated only too soon, alas!) wants to share in
the
idiotism.  Personally I think your reply was smart and appropriate.  I'm
completely aware that the responsibility of getting angry responses is all
mine.  Yours was witty.  "Screw You" would also be ok with me.  I think what
is
really scary in this situation is not my immature action, but the severity
with
which the real police showed its face.  In his letter to me Alex Rudd
correctly
identified me as a vigilante.  With this term I can only happily agree.  The
authoritative and threatening stance of Alex Rudd (who warned that he will
"find me") seems in contrast much more police-like than my email.  Rudd's
letter made the whole matter serious.  Especially in light of his inistence
to
keep this away from the public space that is SEELANGS.   It is amazing to me
that Rudd's generous heart (which forgives and forgets) has enough space to
fit
the first person plural pronoun of everyone on SEELANGS.  In a similar
manner,
then, I apologize to you on behalf of everyone policing and policed.

Sincerely,
Buzz Police!!!!

P.S.  To show the difference between Buzz Police!!!!! and real police I'm
attaching some of Alex Rudd's letter to me.  The situation smells a bit like
Soviet Union, but perhaps it's just America.

Alex Rudd wrote:

Are you kidding me?
You have named yourself incorrectly.  "Buzz Vigilante" would be more
appropriate.
"Comic relief" is not what's needed.  If you perceive that there's a
problem with the SEELANGS list, then your remedy is to bring it to the
attention of the list owners and request some kind of relief.  It's
our job to address it, not yours.

At this point the proper thing for you to do would be to compose
another message to the entire list, using your real identity and your
real e-mail address, and apologize for your using really poor judgment
and for insulting Sarah Hurst.

While you're at it, apologize for wasting my time, too... because now,
thanks to you, I'm going to have to take the time to react to your
post by composing a message to the list addressing the whole
situation.
At this point, assuming you do own up to this little prank and behave
in a sufficiently contrite manner, I'm willing to have you remain on
the list (as your true self).  However, should you not own up to it,
and issue the appropriate apologies, then when I find out who you are,
and should you give me reason to look I _will_ find out, then I will
publicize your identity within the community and ban you from
SEELANGS.

- Alex, list owner of SEELANGS

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From alex.rudd at GMAIL.COM  Wed Apr  9 02:22:11 2008
From: alex.rudd at GMAIL.COM (Alex Rudd)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 19:22:11 -0700
Subject: SEELANGS Administrivia - (was Re: apology, etc.)
Message-ID: <TUE.8.APR.2008.192211.0700.>

On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 4:49 PM, Alex Spektor <aspektor at fas.harvard.edu> wrote:
> Dear Sarah Hurst!!!!!!!!
> I'm writing to apologize.  I'm really sorry if my message have in any way
> offended or insulted you.

Mr. Spektor,

Thanks for sending this.

> I think what is
> really scary in this situation is not my immature action, but the severity with
> which the real police showed its face.  In his letter to me Alex Rudd correctly
> identified me as a vigilante.  With this term I can only happily agree.  The
> authoritative and threatening stance of Alex Rudd (who warned that he will
> "find me") seems in contrast much more police-like than my email.  Rudd's
> letter made the whole matter serious.

And what I think is really scary, is that someone who has been
subscribed to this list for years, as you have, would have so much
disrespect for it, and for his fellow list members, to post a message
as you did, anonymously and desiring to usurp the role of list owner,
proud as a peacock to have disrupted the list, and would then succeed,
if only in part, in rallying other list members to condemn the actual
list owner for managing his list.

> Especially in light of his inistence to
> keep this away from the public space that is SEELANGS.

SEELANGS is not a public space.  SEELANGS is an e-mail based
discussion list.  You subscribed to it.  When you subscribed to it,
you were sent a Welcome message.  Among other things, that Welcome
message contained the following admonition:

----- Begin ----

SEELANGS exists to facilitate discussion of topics of interest
to teachers and students of Russian and other Slavic and East
European languages and literatures.  Use the list in furtherance
of that general goal.  But please, do not treat SEELANGS or its
members with disrespect.  Profanity is not welcome, nor is
language which demeans or belittles other people or groups of
people.  It is further expected that list members will conduct
themselves in a mature and polite manner towards fellow list
members.  "Flames" will not be tolerated.  The list owner reserves
the right to take any action he feels appropriate to ensure the
smooth operation of the list.

----- End -----

Being on actual notice of this, you chose: 1) to treat SEELANGS with
disrespect by subscribing and posting from an anonymous account, 2) to
treat at least one of its members with disrespect, 3) to take what in
your own words was an "immature action" by posting that message, and
4) to promise all of us that we could expect to see more of your
"buzzes," meaning this was not to be a one-time thing.

As I know you are an adult, I find it difficult to understand why you
felt moved so strongly to act as you did, as opposed to simply
contacting the list owners (as many others have done over the years)
or even contacting directly a list member whose failure to cut short a
particular thread so perturbed you.

> It is amazing to me
> that Rudd's generous heart (which forgives and forgets) has enough space to fit
> the first person plural pronoun of everyone on SEELANGS.
<snip>
> P.S.  To show the difference between Buzz Police!!!!! and real police I'm
> attaching some of Alex Rudd's letter to me.  The situation smells a bit like
> Soviet Union, but perhaps it's just America.

Do I speak for SEELANGS?  You bet I do.  SEELANGS is a LISTSERV
discussion list.  Like all such discussion lists, there are resources
put into running it and you pay
for none of them.  The service is provided to you gratis through the
generosity of the University of Alabama at Tuscaloosa because Bama
provides the hardware and software.  I provide the human
administration and support and have done so since 1993, when the list
was still housed at the City University of New York.  Those of you who
were subscribed back then might remember a posting from a CUNY
computer center administrator advising us that SEELANGS (at the time)
was without a list owner and would be taken out of existence if one
was not found.  I volunteered to take over then and I've been
volunteering ever since.  When CUNY became an intolerable place to
host this list, I sought out and located a new server willing and able
to take it, made all the necessary arrangements, and oversaw the
transition, ensuring that it was smooth and also that we retained our
most precious resource, the SEELANGS Archives.  I am not a Slavicist
and I don't belong to AATSEEL, so you will never see me, and have
never seen me, post here pretending to be one or to have any expertise
I do not.  I am, however, the list owner here.  Among my duties is to
set the guidelines and to see to the orderly administration of the
list.  If you have a problem with that, please feel free to find a
list server and start your own list.

Finally, David Powelstock wrote:
> If Alex S. is banned from the list, count me out, too.

I'm not going to ban Alex S. from the list.  He did as I asked (more or less).

I will, however, continue to administer the SEELANGS list to the best
of my ability, including taking (a lot of ) time out of my busy life
to assist list members with their numerous list-related questions and
issues, just as I assisted David Powelstock as recently as last July
when he wrote asking for help.

SEELANGers, if you would prefer to have Alex Spektor as your list
owner, then by all means, let him know that (off-list to
aspektor at fas.harvard.edu).  If he feels enough support, I'm sure he
will find another LISTSERV server willing to host the SEELANGS list
and will contact me to tell me when it's time to turn over the reins.

- Alex, list owner of SEELANGS
--
Alex Rudd
List owner e-mail: seelangs-request at bama.ua.edu
Personal e-mail: Alex.Rudd at gmail.com
http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
Any opinion expressed above is not necessarily shared by my employers.

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From votruba+ at PITT.EDU  Wed Apr  9 02:35:35 2008
From: votruba+ at PITT.EDU (Martin Votruba)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 22:35:35 -0400
Subject: SEELANGS Administrivia
In-Reply-To: <a82fa040804081922g64616521o2cb916677119bd84@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.8.APR.2008.223535.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

> Alex Rudd
> List owner e-mail: seelangs-request at bama.ua.edu

My full support to you, Alex, in this matter, and thanks for all 
those years.


Martin

votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu

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From POSNER_LUDMILA at SMC.EDU  Wed Apr  9 03:36:12 2008
From: POSNER_LUDMILA at SMC.EDU (POSNER_LUDMILA)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 20:36:12 -0700
Subject: Russian
Message-ID: <TUE.8.APR.2008.203612.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Maria,
I'm teaching Russian at CSUN, we will need Russian GA for this summer, if you are interested, contact me:
ludmila.posner at csun.edu
 
Ludmila

________________________________

From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list on behalf of Maria Dmytrieva
Sent: Tue 4/8/2008 2:48 PM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: [SEELANGS] translator looking for a job



   
 Dear colleagues,   
   
I have a rather personal question although connected to the topic of this   
mailing list.   
I am a Fulbright Scholar, taking a master's program in linguistics in California   
State University, Northridge, starting last August.   
Before this I worked as a translator and interpreter with working languages   
English/Russian/Ukrainian in Kyiv.   
My husband who is also a translator and interpreter with the same working   
languages (Rus and Ukr being his nativ) joined me in September, and after he   
received a work permit in November we have been looking for local clients for   
him. He is highly skilled and he has some really good clients and pojects on his resume.   
Since then we have sent his resume (which was proof-read by a quailified   
English-speaking person) to more than 40 translation agencies here, in   
California. Most of them are in San-Fernando Valley, some in downtown LA.   
I am starting to get worried -- why don't they ever call back?   
What are we doing wrong? Should we try to contact translation agencies in other   
states?   
I would gladly accept any relevant advice or comments sent off-list.   
   
With best regards,   
Maria   

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From alkaponn at MSN.COM  Wed Apr  9 11:25:08 2008
From: alkaponn at MSN.COM (=?BIG5?Q?Alissa_Timoshkina?=)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 06:25:08 -0500
Subject: Russian Literature and Language Week in London
Message-ID: <WED.9.APR.2008.062508.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Friends,

As part of this year��s unprecedented programme of Russian cultural events, 
ACADEMIA ROSSICA launches the First Russian Language and Literature Week 
in the UK. 

With more than 100 leading Russian writers, publishers and journalists arriving 
in London, Russian Literature Week will provide a long-awaited platform for an 
open inter-cultural dialogue and the exchange of opinions between Russian 
and British intellectuals. It is a rare opportunity for the British public to hear 
the views of distinguished Russian intellectuals directly.

The central focus of the Week will be the first ever Russian stand at the 
London Book Fair (14-16 April, Earls Court, London). It will present a 
continuous 3-day programme of debates on contemporary Russian culture, 
politics and the future of Russo-British relations. Official opening of the 
Russian Stand by HE The Ambassador of Russia Mr Yury V. Fedotov at 2.30 pm 
on Monday, 14 April. 

Speakers include: 
�X	Vladimir Grigoriev, Deputy Head of the Federal Agency for Press and 
Mass Communications, publisher (Vagrius), founder of the Big Book Prize 
(second largest cash award, after the Nobel)
�X	Dmitry Bykov, writer, winner of the Big Book Prize 2007 
�X	Sergey Mironenko, historian, Director of the State Archives of the 
Russian Federation
�X	Alexander Ilichevsky, winner of the Russian Booker Prize 2007, editor 
at Svoboda radio 
�X	Alexander  Drozdov, Director of the First President of Russia Boris 
Yeltsin Foundation
�X	Alexander Arkhangelskiy, writer, Kultura TV presenter (the main 
Russian cultural TV channel)
as well as
�X	Norman Stone, Professor of International Politics, writer 
�X	Dominic Lieven, historian, Professor of Russian Government at LSE
�X	Bridget Kendall, award winning journalist, diplomatic correspondent 
for BBC
�X	Orlando Figes, Professor of Russian History, award winning writer
�X	James Meek, award winning writer and journalist (Guardian) 
as well as other key Russian and British writers, publishers and intellectuals.

Discussions will focus on 3 main themes:
�X	New Heroes of New Russian Literature: a reflection of new Russia in 
new Russian writing
�X	A Recreation of Russian National Identity; through the reassessment 
of Russian history
�X	New Russia - New Hopes: Russia��s standing in the world community 

Other events of the Week include:
1.	Translating Russia: a special evening at the Royal Society of 
Literature �V 14 April
2.	Evening talks and discussions at Waterstone��s Piccadilly �V 15-18 April
3.	Programme launch: Grants for Translation of Contemporary Russian 
Literature into English
4.	Forum of Russian language teachers �V 17 April, School of Slavonic 
Studies, UCL
5.	Russian literature in films �V 19-20 April, Apollo Cinema, Piccadilly

Organisers
The first Russian Language and Literature Week is organised by ACADEMIA 
ROSSICA, a London based cultural organisation, aiming to strengthen cultural 
and intellectual links between Britain and Russia. The Week is supported by 
the Yeltsin Foundation (Moscow), Russkiy Mir foundation (Moscow), Federal 
Agency for Press and Mass Communications and the Russian Embassy in 
London. 

Press-conference: 14 April, 1.30 pm at the London Book Press Office
For more information please contact ACADEMIA ROSSICA: press at academia-
rossica.org
Tel: 0203 326 0522; 020 79337 5001; www.academia-rossica.org 

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From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM  Wed Apr  9 11:41:50 2008
From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 12:41:50 +0100
Subject: Platonov 'Never to return'
Message-ID: <WED.9.APR.2008.124150.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear all,

Platonov does something odd with time in this passage from the very end of
KOTLOVAN. Zhachev, the speaker, is in the barak, which is, I think, being
treated as somewhere separate from the kotlovan itself.

– Ты же видишь, что я урод империализма, а коммунизм –  это детское дело, за
то я и Настю любил... Пойду сейчас на прощанье  товарища Пашкина убью.

И Жачев уполз в город, более уже никогда не возвратившись на котлован.
I Zhachev upolz v gorod, bolee uzhe nikogda ne vozvrativshis’ na kotlovan.

There is clearly something paradoxical about this use of the past perfective
gerund. 

At present we have:
‘And Zhachev crawled away into the city, never to return to the foundation
pit.’
But that is utterly normal, which the Russian clearly isn’t.
Another possibility is ‘never having returned to the foundation pit’. But
that too, I think, oversimplifies the meaning?

The following versions are probably the closest, but they seem rather fussy.
The original seems much cleaner!
‘And Zhachev crawled away into the city, never again to have gone back to
 the foundation pit.’
‘And Zhachev crawled away into the city, not once to have gone back to the
foundation pit.’

The last seems to me the least bad, but can anyone suggest anything better?

Best wishes,

R.

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From lily.alexander at UTORONTO.CA  Wed Apr  9 12:16:47 2008
From: lily.alexander at UTORONTO.CA (Lily Alexander)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 08:16:47 -0400
Subject: Platonov 'Never to return'
In-Reply-To: <C4226A0E.2D8AA%kcf19@dial.pipex.com>
Message-ID: <WED.9.APR.2008.081647.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Robert,

I think you are absolutely right : there is a paradox with time, which 
implies that time in not linear in Platotov, and may go back and forth 
or be circular like in myth.

I think your second last choice is the closest to this obvious word/time 
game of Platonov in this sentence. But perhaps experimenting, you can 
get even a better solution.

‘And Zhachev crawled away into the city, never again to have gone back to
 the foundation pit.’

(I like this one).

И Жачев уполз в город, более уже никогда не возвратившись на котлован.

Best,

Lily Alexander


 Robert Chandler wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> Platonov does something odd with time in this passage from the very end of
> KOTLOVAN. Zhachev, the speaker, is in the barak, which is, I think, being
> treated as somewhere separate from the kotlovan itself.
>
> – Ты же видишь, что я урод империализма, а коммунизм –  это детское дело, за
> то я и Настю любил... Пойду сейчас на прощанье  товарища Пашкина убью.
>
> И Жачев уполз в город, более уже никогда не возвратившись на котлован.
> I Zhachev upolz v gorod, bolee uzhe nikogda ne vozvrativshis’ na kotlovan.
>
> There is clearly something paradoxical about this use of the past perfective
> gerund. 
>
> At present we have:
> ‘And Zhachev crawled away into the city, never to return to the foundation
> pit.’
> But that is utterly normal, which the Russian clearly isn’t.
> Another possibility is ‘never having returned to the foundation pit’. But
> that too, I think, oversimplifies the meaning?
>
> The following versions are probably the closest, but they seem rather fussy.
> The original seems much cleaner!
> ‘And Zhachev crawled away into the city, never again to have gone back to
>  the foundation pit.’
> ‘And Zhachev crawled away into the city, not once to have gone back to the
> foundation pit.’
>
> The last seems to me the least bad, but can anyone suggest anything better?
>
> Best wishes,
>
> R.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>   

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From mm504 at CAM.AC.UK  Wed Apr  9 13:01:40 2008
From: mm504 at CAM.AC.UK (Muireann Maguire)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 14:01:40 +0100
Subject: Russian Literature and Language Week in London
In-Reply-To: <LISTSERV%200804090625088621.041D@BAMA.UA.EDU>
Message-ID: <WED.9.APR.2008.140140.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Alissa,

This sounds great! Please do let me know if you could locate any 
complimentary tickets for the book fair - that would make a huge economic 
difference to me! If there is more than one available, I could check 
whether any of the other graduate students here could come...

Best wishes,

Muireann

On Apr 9 2008, Alissa Timoshkina wrote:

>Dear Friends,
>
>As part of this year’s unprecedented programme of Russian cultural events, 
>ACADEMIA ROSSICA launches the First Russian Language and Literature Week 
>in the UK. 
>
> With more than 100 leading Russian writers, publishers and journalists 
> arriving in London, Russian Literature Week will provide a long-awaited 
> platform for an open inter-cultural dialogue and the exchange of opinions 
> between Russian and British intellectuals. It is a rare opportunity for 
> the British public to hear the views of distinguished Russian 
> intellectuals directly.
>
> The central focus of the Week will be the first ever Russian stand at the 
> London Book Fair (14-16 April, Earls Court, London). It will present a 
> continuous 3-day programme of debates on contemporary Russian culture, 
> politics and the future of Russo-British relations. Official opening of 
> the Russian Stand by HE The Ambassador of Russia Mr Yury V. Fedotov at 
> 2.30 pm on Monday, 14 April.
>
> Speakers include: �X Vladimir Grigoriev, Deputy Head of the Federal 
> Agency for Press and Mass Communications, publisher (Vagrius), founder of 
> the Big Book Prize (second largest cash award, after the Nobel) �X 
> Dmitry Bykov, writer, winner of the Big Book Prize 2007 �X Sergey 
> Mironenko, historian, Director of the State Archives of the Russian 
> Federation �X Alexander Ilichevsky, winner of the Russian Booker Prize 
> 2007, editor at Svoboda radio �X Alexander Drozdov, Director of the 
> First President of Russia Boris Yeltsin Foundation �X Alexander 
> Arkhangelskiy, writer, Kultura TV presenter (the main Russian cultural TV 
> channel) as well as �X Norman Stone, Professor of International 
> Politics, writer �X Dominic Lieven, historian, Professor of Russian 
> Government at LSE �X Bridget Kendall, award winning journalist, 
> diplomatic correspondent for BBC �X Orlando Figes, Professor of Russian 
> History, award winning writer �X James Meek, award winning writer and 
> journalist (Guardian) as well as other key Russian and British writers, 
> publishers and intellectuals.
>
>Discussions will focus on 3 main themes:
>�X	New Heroes of New Russian Literature: a reflection of new Russia in 
>new Russian writing
>�X	A Recreation of Russian National Identity; through the reassessment 
>of Russian history
>�X	New Russia - New Hopes: Russia’s standing in the world community 
>
>Other events of the Week include:
>1.	Translating Russia: a special evening at the Royal Society of 
>Literature – 14 April
>2.	Evening talks and discussions at Waterstone’s Piccadilly – 15-18 April
>3.	Programme launch: Grants for Translation of Contemporary Russian 
>Literature into English
>4.	Forum of Russian language teachers – 17 April, School of Slavonic 
>Studies, UCL
>5.	Russian literature in films – 19-20 April, Apollo Cinema, Piccadilly
>
> Organisers The first Russian Language and Literature Week is organised by 
> ACADEMIA ROSSICA, a London based cultural organisation, aiming to 
> strengthen cultural and intellectual links between Britain and Russia. 
> The Week is supported by the Yeltsin Foundation (Moscow), Russkiy Mir 
> foundation (Moscow), Federal Agency for Press and Mass Communications and 
> the Russian Embassy in London.
>
>Press-conference: 14 April, 1.30 pm at the London Book Press Office
>For more information please contact ACADEMIA ROSSICA: press at academia-
>rossica.org
>Tel: 0203 326 0522; 020 79337 5001; www.academia-rossica.org 
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

-- 
Muireann Maguire                 Tel.: 079 62 89 4118
PhD student in the Dept. of Slavonic Studies
International Officer, Jesus College Graduate Society

Jesus College
Cambridge
CB5 8BL

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From gbpeirce at PITT.EDU  Wed Apr  9 13:18:56 2008
From: gbpeirce at PITT.EDU (Peirce, Gina M)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 09:18:56 -0400
Subject: Update on University of Pittsburgh REES Associate Director
 position
Message-ID: <WED.9.APR.2008.091856.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Colleagues,

We wish to inform you that the University of Pittsburgh's Office of Human Resources has finally assigned a job number for the REES Associate Director position. This number is 0124919. We apologize for the unanticipated delay in this process. We will be extending the date for review of applications until April 18. To apply, please submit your application materials as soon as possible through the website at www.hr.pitt.edu. Also, please ask your recommenders to submit their reference letters directly to Ms. Eileen O'Malley at slainte at pitt.edu or University of Pittsburgh, REES, 4402 WWPH, Pittsburgh, PA 15260.

The original announcement of this position from March 20 appears below:


University of Pittsburgh, Center for Russian & East European Studies, Associate Director

The Center for Russian & East European Studies (REES) at the University of Pittsburgh seeks to fill the position of Associate Director.  REES is a Title VI National Resource Center that works with faculty, students and staff throughout the University, including the humanities, social sciences and professional schools; organizes an educational outreach program for the local community and tri-state region; maintains a wide network of international exchanges; helps support the annual Slavic and East European Summer Language Institute; and publishes the Carl Beck Papers in Russian & East European Studies.  The Associate Director reports to the Director of REES and works with the Director and REES staff to design, develop and administer the Title VI program and all other activities of REES.  Other duties include liaison with faculty and graduate and professional school students; with the University administration; and with public and private groups, locally, nationally and internationally; as well as representing REES when asked to do so by the Director.  The Associate Director advises graduate and professional school students in the REES Graduate Certificate programs.  Some national and international travel is required.  This is a full-time administrative position, but limited adjunct teaching may be possible.

Requirements: Advanced degree (Ph.D. strongly preferred); substantial professional knowledge of or experience working in Russian, East European or Eurasian affairs; competence in at least one REES-area language (preferably Russian or another Slavic language); administrative skills and organizational ability; demonstrated writing skills; and the interpersonal skills to work well with students, faculty, university administrators, external program officers, foreign visitors and others.  University administrative experience preferred.  The appointment will begin on August 1, 2008.

Salary commensurate with qualifications and experience.  Excellent benefits package.  Review of applications will begin on April 11, 2008 and will continue until the position is filled.  Please visit the University's Human Resources website at www.hr.pitt.edu to apply.  In addition to the application, please be sure to submit a curriculum vitae, a statement of administrative and research experience, and reference letters as attachments.

The University of Pittsburgh, as an educational institution and as an employer, does not discriminate on the basis of race, color, religion, ethnicity, national origin, age, sex, sexual orientation or marital, veteran, or handicapped status.  This is a commitment made by the University, and is in accordance with federal, state and local laws and regulations.


*************************************
Gina M. Peirce
Assistant Director
Center for Russian and East European Studies
University of Pittsburgh
4414 Posvar Hall
Pittsburgh, PA 15260
Phone: (412) 648-2290
Fax: (412) 648-7002

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From dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU  Wed Apr  9 13:36:31 2008
From: dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU (Edward M Dumanis)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 09:36:31 -0400
Subject: Platonov 'Never to return'
In-Reply-To: <C4226A0E.2D8AA%kcf19@dial.pipex.com>
Message-ID: <WED.9.APR.2008.093631.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

For the effect to be preserved, the translation must create time 
encapsulation which would distinguish "upolz" and "popolz."

Sincerely,

Edward Dumanis <dumanis at buffalo.edu>

On Wed, 9 Apr 2008, Robert Chandler wrote:

.........../snip/...............
>
> � ����� ����� � �����, ����� ��� ������� �� ������������� �� ��������.
> I Zhachev upolz v gorod, bolee uzhe nikogda ne vozvrativshis� na kotlovan.
>
> There is clearly something paradoxical about this use of the past perfective
> gerund.
>
> At present we have:
> �And Zhachev crawled away into the city, never to return to the foundation
> pit.�
> But that is utterly normal, which the Russian clearly isn�t.
> Another possibility is �never having returned to the foundation pit�. But
> that too, I think, oversimplifies the meaning?
>
> The following versions are probably the closest, but they seem rather fussy.
> The original seems much cleaner!
> �And Zhachev crawled away into the city, never again to have gone back to
> the foundation pit.�
> �And Zhachev crawled away into the city, not once to have gone back to the
> foundation pit.�
......../snip/................

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From tpolowy at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU  Wed Apr  9 13:39:16 2008
From: tpolowy at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (tpolowy at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 06:39:16 -0700
Subject: Russian "Olympiads" in CA, AZ or NM?
In-Reply-To: <9EC4B91F4AFB2F4584732543D619836E05584E@ROMULUS.smc.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.9.APR.2008.063916.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Colleagues,
I am posting this query for a local teacher of Russian at a private school in
Tucson, AZ:

"What competitions, Olympiades in Russian are available in Arizona, 
California,
or New Mexico? I know that the international competition of Russian language
will take place in St. Petersburg this year. What are the intermediate
competitions between the school and the international level, available in
Arizona or California or Nevada?"

If you have any information, please write to me off-list at:
tpolowy at email.arizona.edu

Thank you!

Teresa Polowy, Head
Russian and Slavic Studies
University of Arizona

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From k.r.hauge at ILOS.UIO.NO  Wed Apr  9 14:23:47 2008
From: k.r.hauge at ILOS.UIO.NO (=?UTF-8?B?S2pldGlsIFLDpSBIYXVnZQ==?=)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 16:23:47 +0200
Subject: Platonov 'Never to return'
In-Reply-To: <C4226A0E.2D8AA%kcf19@dial.pipex.com>
Message-ID: <WED.9.APR.2008.162347.0200.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Robert Chandler wrote:
> Dear all,
> 
> Platonov does something odd with time in this passage 

He is not the only one to use a past gerund in this way. This is a 
passage from the Russian translation of Sartre's "Les mots":

"Он защитил диссертацию о Гансе Саксе, сделался приверженцем
"прямого метода", объявив себя впоследствии его основоположником, [...]"
On zashchitil dissertaciju o Ganse Sakse, sdelalsja priverzhencem 
'prjamogo metoda', ob"javiv sebja vposledstvii ego osnovopolozhnikom
(<http://lyricbook.ru/1_book593.html>).

(The original has passé simple: "Il soutint une thèse sur Hans Sachs, 
opta pour la méthode directe dont il se dit plus tard l'inventeur, [...]")

Actually, I first read this witty sentence in an article on gerunds a 
long time ago, but I have forgotten where and have been on the lookout 
for it for years. It was only today when I googled the quote that I 
found out it was from a translation of Sartre.

-- 
---
Kjetil Rå Hauge, U. of Oslo, PO Box 1003 Blindern, N-0315 Oslo, Norway
Tel. +47/22856710, fax +47/22854140

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From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU  Wed Apr  9 16:26:58 2008
From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 12:26:58 -0400
Subject: PC vs. euphemism
In-Reply-To: <1EEE355E-904C-47A8-B558-7FCC3DBC9A6F@american.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.9.APR.2008.122658.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Speaking of euphemisms, it is a long standing tradition in Russian to  
avoid naming the cause of death in case of a natural death: dolgaja  
prodolzhitel'naja bolezn' is usually cancer. Neozhidanno or  
skoropostizhno skonchalsja usually a heart attack, and so on.  
Although in recent years the information seeps through, unlike let's  
say even twenty years ago when the word "rak" was not to be uttered  
(although even then on occasion deducable).


Alina Israeli
LFS, American University
4400 Massachusetts Ave., NW
Washington DC. 20016
(202) 885-2387 	
fax (202) 885-1076
aisrael at american.edu




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From Monniern at MISSOURI.EDU  Wed Apr  9 16:41:48 2008
From: Monniern at MISSOURI.EDU (Monniern)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 11:41:48 -0500
Subject: Gerasimov's picture "I.V. Stalin u groba A. A. Zhdanova"
Message-ID: <WED.9.APR.2008.114148.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

SEELANGS-tsy!

Does anyone know where I can find an image of Aleksandr Gerasimov's (Stalin
prize) award winning painting, "I.V. Stalin u groba A.A. Zhdanova"? I've
done the usual web searches and so far have come up with nothing . . .

Curiously,

Nicole


****************************
Dr. Nicole Monnier
Assistant Teaching Professor of Russian
Director of Undergraduate Studies (Russian)
German & Russian Studies
428A Strickland (formerly GCB)
University of Missouri
Columbia, MO 65211

phone: 573.882.3370

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From ewb2 at CORNELL.EDU  Wed Apr  9 16:49:30 2008
From: ewb2 at CORNELL.EDU (Wayles Browne)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 12:49:30 -0400
Subject: Platonov 'Never to return'
In-Reply-To: <C4226A0E.2D8AA%kcf19@dial.pipex.com>
Message-ID: <WED.9.APR.2008.124930.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Possibly there is less oddness here than Robert Chandler suspects.
The past perfective gerund is, in fact, not always past, though it is
perfective. The Academy of Sciences' Russkaja grammatika, vol. 1,
1980, section 1589, points out that the perfective gerund in -v or -vshi
can express:
  a previous action (ostanovivshis', skazal 'having stopped,
he said'),
or an accompanying action (sidit, naxmurivshis' 'he sits, frowning'),
or a following action (rasstegnul sjurtuk, otkryv rubaxu navypusk
'he unbuttened his coat, exposing his shirt which was outside his
trousers').
The translations are mine, but I think they're logical; you couldn't
have seen his shirt until after he unbuttoned his coat.
A.I.Isachenko also discusses the "non-previousness" use of the
perfective gerund in Grammaticheskij stroj russkogo jazyka, vol. II,
Bratislava 1960, pages 534-539. He points out that placing this
gerund after the main verb favors such an interpretation, and
gives an example from Gogol':
Ganna pospeshno vletela v xatu, zaxlopnuv za soboju dver'.
Logically, says Isachenko, she had to rush in first and only then
could she slam the door after her.
Thus the translation would be: She rushed into the house,
slamming (rather than: after slamming, or after having slammed)
the door behind her.
So perhaps Chandler's "utterly normal" translation of Platonov's
sentence is the one to use.

At 12:41 PM +0100 4/9/08, Robert Chandler wrote:
>Dear all,
>
>Platonov does something odd with time in this passage from the very end of
>KOTLOVAN. Zhachev, the speaker, is in the barak, which is, I think, being
>treated as somewhere separate from the kotlovan itself.
>
>­ íš Ê ’˔˯¸, —ÚÓ þ ەӔ ËÏÔ•ËýÎËÁÏý, ý ÍÓÏÏÛÌËÁÏ ­  ›ÚÓ ”ÂÚÒÍÓ ”ÂÎÓ, Áý
>ÚÓ þ Ë çýÒڜ Μ·ËÎ... èÓÈ”Û ÒÂȗýÒ Ìý ԕӘý̸  ÚӒý•Ë˜ý èý¯ÍËÌý Û·¸œ.
>
>à Üý—Â’ ÛÔÓÎÁ ’ “Ó•Ó”, ·ÓΠÛÊ ÌËÍӓ”ý Ì ’ÓÁ’•ýÚ˒¯ËÒ¸ Ìý ÍÓÚÎӒýÌ.
>I Zhachev upolz v gorod, bolee uzhe nikogda ne vozvrativshis¹ na kotlovan.
>
>There is clearly something paradoxical about this use of the past perfective
>gerund.
>
>At present we have:
>ŒAnd Zhachev crawled away into the city, never to return to the foundation
>pit.¹
>But that is utterly normal, which the Russian clearly isn¹t.
>Another possibility is Œnever having returned to the foundation pit¹. But
>that too, I think, oversimplifies the meaning?
>
>The following versions are probably the closest, but they seem rather fussy.
>The original seems much cleaner!
>ŒAnd Zhachev crawled away into the city, never again to have gone back to
>  the foundation pit.¹
>ŒAnd Zhachev crawled away into the city, not once to have gone back to the
>foundation pit.¹
>
>The last seems to me the least bad, but can anyone suggest anything better?
>
>Best wishes,
>
R.


-- 

Wayles Browne, Assoc. Prof. of Linguistics
Department of Linguistics
Morrill Hall 220, Cornell University
Ithaca, New York 14853, U.S.A.

tel. 607-255-0712 (o), 607-273-3009 (h)
fax 607-255-2044 (write FOR W. BROWNE)
e-mail ewb2 at cornell.edu

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From colkitto at ROGERS.COM  Wed Apr  9 16:51:43 2008
From: colkitto at ROGERS.COM (colkitto@rogers.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 12:51:43 -0400
Subject: PC vs. euphemism
Message-ID: <WED.9.APR.2008.125143.0400.>

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Alina Israeli aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 12:26:58 -0400
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] PC vs. euphemism


let's  
say even twenty years ago when the word "rak" was not to be uttered  
(although even then on occasion deducable).

so how did one refer to crayfish, freshwater lobsters, etc>????


Alina Israeli
LFS, American University
4400 Massachusetts Ave., NW
Washington DC. 20016
(202) 885-2387 	
fax (202) 885-1076
aisrael at american.edu




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mail2web.com – Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on Microsoft®
Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail

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From frosset at WHEATONMA.EDU  Wed Apr  9 16:53:45 2008
From: frosset at WHEATONMA.EDU (Francoise Rosset)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 12:53:45 -0400
Subject: Gerasimov's picture "I.V. Stalin u groba A. A. Zhdanova"
In-Reply-To: <C4225BFC.FB8A%Monniern@missouri.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.9.APR.2008.125345.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

On Wed, 9 Apr 2008 11:41:48 -0500
  Monniern <Monniern at MISSOURI.EDU> wrote:
> SEELANGS-tsy!
> 
> Does anyone know where I can find an image of Aleksandr Gerasimov's 
>(Stalin
> prize) award winning painting, "I.V. Stalin u groba A.A. Zhdanova"? 
>I've
> done the usual web searches and so far have come up with nothing . . 

Try Pitt's digital archive "Stalinka," specifically this:
http://images.library.pitt.edu/cgi-bin/i/image/image-idx?sid=2f61ab7e949d60a3da2e4f5757a718c9&q1=Gerasimov&rgn1=stalinka_cr&op2=And&q2=Stalin&rgn2=stalinka_all&type=boolean&med=1&view=thumbnail&c=stalinka

I think that's what you want?
-FR

Francoise Rosset, Associate Professor
Chair, Russian and Russian Studies
Coordinator, German and Russian
Wheaton College
Norton, Massachusetts 02766
Office: (508) 285-3696
FAX:   (508) 286-3640

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From mdenner at STETSON.EDU  Wed Apr  9 17:07:28 2008
From: mdenner at STETSON.EDU (Michael Denner)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 13:07:28 -0400
Subject: book/article recommendations on human trafficking in russia/e.
 europe
In-Reply-To: A<web-17567214@wheatonma.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.9.APR.2008.130728.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Colleagues,
I remember we had a long discussion of this topic a few years ago, but I
cannot find the thread. I student wrote, asking for advice. Does anyone
have nominations on the standard reference, seminal articles on this
topic? Particularly in its connection to the UDHR. 

Pls reply to me, mdenner at stetson.edu, off list.

Here's the request...

We're  working on our position papers, where we take a stance on a human
rights abuse and write a formal report/plan of action to the UN on it.
I'm writing mine on Human Trafficking, and it has been recommended that
I narrow my focus to a smaller area of the world (I primarily was
focusing on the general Australasia area, i.e. India, Thailand, China
etc -way too big).

I thought it would make sense to focus on Eastern Europe (with the whole
Russian Studies Major thing I have going on), and I was just wondering
if, off the top of your head, you can think of or recommend any books or
articles/studies on the subject.  



~mad
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
   Dr. Michael A. Denner
   Editor, Tolstoy Studies Journal
   Director, University Honors Program

   
   Contact Information:
      Russian Studies Program
      Stetson University
      Campus Box 8361
      DeLand, FL 32720-3756
      386.822.7381 (department)
      386.822.7265 (direct line)
      386.822.7380 (fax)

      google talk michaeladenner
      www.stetson.edu/~mdenner


-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
[mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Francoise Rosset
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 12:54 PM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Gerasimov's picture "I.V. Stalin u groba A. A.
Zhdanova"

On Wed, 9 Apr 2008 11:41:48 -0500
  Monniern <Monniern at MISSOURI.EDU> wrote:
> SEELANGS-tsy!
> 
> Does anyone know where I can find an image of Aleksandr Gerasimov's 
>(Stalin
> prize) award winning painting, "I.V. Stalin u groba A.A. Zhdanova"? 
>I've
> done the usual web searches and so far have come up with nothing . . 

Try Pitt's digital archive "Stalinka," specifically this:
http://images.library.pitt.edu/cgi-bin/i/image/image-idx?sid=2f61ab7e949
d60a3da2e4f5757a718c9&q1=Gerasimov&rgn1=stalinka_cr&op2=And&q2=Stalin&rg
n2=stalinka_all&type=boolean&med=1&view=thumbnail&c=stalinka

I think that's what you want?
-FR

Francoise Rosset, Associate Professor
Chair, Russian and Russian Studies
Coordinator, German and Russian
Wheaton College
Norton, Massachusetts 02766
Office: (508) 285-3696
FAX:   (508) 286-3640

------------------------------------------------------------------------
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-

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From Monniern at MISSOURI.EDU  Wed Apr  9 17:14:24 2008
From: Monniern at MISSOURI.EDU (Monniern)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 12:14:24 -0500
Subject: Gerasimov's picture "I.V. Stalin u groba A. A. Zhdanova"
In-Reply-To: <web-17567214@wheatonma.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.9.APR.2008.121424.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Thank you! That's it exactly!

Gratefully,

Nicole


****************************
Dr. Nicole Monnier
Assistant Teaching Professor of Russian
Director of Undergraduate Studies (Russian)
German & Russian Studies
428A Strickland (formerly GCB)
University of Missouri
Columbia, MO 65211

phone: 573.882.3370




On 4/9/08 11:53 AM, "Francoise Rosset" <frosset at WHEATONMA.EDU> wrote:

> On Wed, 9 Apr 2008 11:41:48 -0500
>   Monniern <Monniern at MISSOURI.EDU> wrote:
>> SEELANGS-tsy!
>> 
>> Does anyone know where I can find an image of Aleksandr Gerasimov's
>> (Stalin
>> prize) award winning painting, "I.V. Stalin u groba A.A. Zhdanova"?
>> I've
>> done the usual web searches and so far have come up with nothing . .
> 
> Try Pitt's digital archive "Stalinka," specifically this:
> http://images.library.pitt.edu/cgi-bin/i/image/image-idx?sid=2f61ab7e949d60a3d
> a2e4f5757a718c9&q1=Gerasimov&rgn1=stalinka_cr&op2=And&q2=Stalin&rgn2=stalinka_
> all&type=boolean&med=1&view=thumbnail&c=stalinka
> 
> I think that's what you want?
> -FR
> 
> Francoise Rosset, Associate Professor
> Chair, Russian and Russian Studies
> Coordinator, German and Russian
> Wheaton College
> Norton, Massachusetts 02766
> Office: (508) 285-3696
> FAX:   (508) 286-3640
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 

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From mattei at FAS.HARVARD.EDU  Wed Apr  9 17:16:00 2008
From: mattei at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Inna Mattei)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 13:16:00 -0400
Subject: book/article recommendations on human trafficking in
 russia/e. europe
In-Reply-To: <D68FFD5C2DF2174E9ACF9A4CA6458D810D386C31@alpha2.ad.stetson.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.9.APR.2008.131600.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

A good source: U.S. Dept of State TIP - Trafficking in Persons report, 
which ranks countries and outlines major problems - issued yearly.

http://www.state.gov/g/tip/


On 4/9/2008 1:07 PM, Michael Denner wrote:
> Colleagues,
> I remember we had a long discussion of this topic a few years ago, but I
> cannot find the thread. I student wrote, asking for advice. Does anyone
> have nominations on the standard reference, seminal articles on this
> topic? Particularly in its connection to the UDHR. 
>
> Pls reply to me, mdenner at stetson.edu, off list.
>
> Here's the request...
>
> We're  working on our position papers, where we take a stance on a human
> rights abuse and write a formal report/plan of action to the UN on it.
> I'm writing mine on Human Trafficking, and it has been recommended that
> I narrow my focus to a smaller area of the world (I primarily was
> focusing on the general Australasia area, i.e. India, Thailand, China
> etc -way too big).
>
> I thought it would make sense to focus on Eastern Europe (with the whole
> Russian Studies Major thing I have going on), and I was just wondering
> if, off the top of your head, you can think of or recommend any books or
> articles/studies on the subject.  
>
>
>
> ~mad
> ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
>    Dr. Michael A. Denner
>    Editor, Tolstoy Studies Journal
>    Director, University Honors Program
>
>    
>    Contact Information:
>       Russian Studies Program
>       Stetson University
>       Campus Box 8361
>       DeLand, FL 32720-3756
>       386.822.7381 (department)
>       386.822.7265 (direct line)
>       386.822.7380 (fax)
>
>       google talk michaeladenner
>       www.stetson.edu/~mdenner
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Francoise Rosset
> Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 12:54 PM
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Gerasimov's picture "I.V. Stalin u groba A. A.
> Zhdanova"
>
> On Wed, 9 Apr 2008 11:41:48 -0500
>   Monniern <Monniern at MISSOURI.EDU> wrote:
>   
>> SEELANGS-tsy!
>>
>> Does anyone know where I can find an image of Aleksandr Gerasimov's 
>> (Stalin
>> prize) award winning painting, "I.V. Stalin u groba A.A. Zhdanova"? 
>> I've
>> done the usual web searches and so far have come up with nothing . . 
>>     
>
> Try Pitt's digital archive "Stalinka," specifically this:
> http://images.library.pitt.edu/cgi-bin/i/image/image-idx?sid=2f61ab7e949
> d60a3da2e4f5757a718c9&q1=Gerasimov&rgn1=stalinka_cr&op2=And&q2=Stalin&rg
> n2=stalinka_all&type=boolean&med=1&view=thumbnail&c=stalinka
>
> I think that's what you want?
> -FR
>
> Francoise Rosset, Associate Professor
> Chair, Russian and Russian Studies
> Coordinator, German and Russian
> Wheaton College
> Norton, Massachusetts 02766
> Office: (508) 285-3696
> FAX:   (508) 286-3640
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   

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From Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK  Wed Apr  9 17:24:23 2008
From: Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK (Alexandra Smith)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 18:24:23 +0100
Subject: Gerasimov's picture "I.V. Stalin u groba A. A. Zhdanova"
In-Reply-To: <C42263A0.FB93%Monniern@missouri.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.9.APR.2008.182423.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Nicole,

The painting is located in Tretyakovskaya gallereya in Moscow.  
Gerasimov was awarded the Stalin prize for it in 1949. The Stalinka  
collection should have specified the location of the painting...

All best,
Alexandra



===============================
Alexandra Smith (PhD, University of London)
Reader in Russian
Department of European Languages and Cultures
School of  Languages, Literatures and Cultures
The University of Edinburgh
David Hume Tower
George Square
Edinburgh EX8 9JX
UK

tel. +44-(0)131-6511381
fax: +44- (0)131- 650-3604
e-mail: Alexandra.Smith at ed.ac.uk




-- 
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.

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From margarita at RENT-A-MIND.COM  Wed Apr  9 17:35:11 2008
From: margarita at RENT-A-MIND.COM (Margarita Orlova)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 10:35:11 -0700
Subject: Platonov 'Never to return'
In-Reply-To: <C4226A0E.2D8AA%kcf19@dial.pipex.com>
Message-ID: <WED.9.APR.2008.103511.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

As a native speaker, i believe the phrase is normal, though within  
the borders of Platonov's chosen stylistic register.
>  The past perfective gerund is, in fact, not always past, though it is
> perfective.

Another Platonov's possibility to express the future would be "chtoby  
nikogda bolee uzhe ne vozvratiti'sa na kotlovan", but it switches the  
register too high - away from his style.

Margarita



On Apr 9, 2008, at 4:41 AM, Robert Chandler wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> Platonov does something odd with time in this passage from the very  
> end of
> KOTLOVAN. Zhachev, the speaker, is in the barak, which is, I think,  
> being
> treated as somewhere separate from the kotlovan itself.
>
> – Ты же видишь, что я урод империализма, а коммунизм –  это детское  
> дело, за
> то я и Настю любил... Пойду сейчас на прощанье  товарища Пашкина убью.
>
> И Жачев уполз в город, более уже никогда не возвратившись на котлован.
> I Zhachev upolz v gorod, bolee uzhe nikogda ne vozvrativshis’ na  
> kotlovan.
>
> There is clearly something paradoxical about this use of the past  
> perfective
> gerund.
>
> At present we have:
> ‘And Zhachev crawled away into the city, never to return to the  
> foundation
> pit.’
> But that is utterly normal, which the Russian clearly isn’t.
> Another possibility is ‘never having returned to the foundation  
> pit’. But
> that too, I think, oversimplifies the meaning?
>
> The following versions are probably the closest, but they seem  
> rather fussy.
> The original seems much cleaner!
> ‘And Zhachev crawled away into the city, never again to have gone  
> back to
>  the foundation pit.’
> ‘And Zhachev crawled away into the city, not once to have gone back  
> to the
> foundation pit.’
>
> The last seems to me the least bad, but can anyone suggest anything  
> better?
>
> Best wishes,
>
> R.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ---
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your  
> subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface  
> at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
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From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU  Wed Apr  9 17:42:11 2008
From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 13:42:11 -0400
Subject: book/article recommendations on human trafficking in
 russia/e. europe
In-Reply-To: <D68FFD5C2DF2174E9ACF9A4CA6458D810D386C31@alpha2.ad.stetson.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.9.APR.2008.134211.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

There is Louise Shelley, formerly at American University, now at  
George Mason http://policy.gmu.edu/faculty/shelley/ who studies these  
kinds of crime. She used to head a transnational crime center.  
Unfortunately, since she left AU a very good web site pertaining to  
trafficking of women has been shut down. But I am sure some  
publications of hers and her students exist.



Alina Israeli
LFS, American University
4400 Massachusetts Ave., NW
Washington DC. 20016
(202) 885-2387 	
fax (202) 885-1076
aisrael at american.edu




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From meersono at GEORGETOWN.EDU  Wed Apr  9 18:50:42 2008
From: meersono at GEORGETOWN.EDU (Olga Meerson)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 14:50:42 -0400
Subject: Platonov 'Never to return'
In-Reply-To: <p06230900c422a08d4006@[128.253.71.112]>
Message-ID: <WED.9.APR.2008.145042.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

All of the examples used here are indeed important excerptions to the 
action order with perfective gerunds. The one with Zhachev, however, IS 
NOT. At least it is totally unclear when, in relation to leaving, 
Zhachev never returned. That is, the point of view of the speaker and 
the way for him to know what eventually happened to Zhachev--and when 
'eventually'--are all in the air. No, the sentence is very, very odd in 
Russian. It is not just Chandler who finds it odd, and not just myself, 
or at least not merely in my capacity of a native informant. Platonov 
has other instances of treating time non-linearly: i dazhe obradovalsia 
nam, no vposledstvii oshibsia ('Ivan Zhokh), etc. The mistake refers to 
the time of rejoicing but its mistakenness is something that would 
become apparent only later. My friend and colleague Nancy Workman once 
translated that one as 'but later he had been in the wrong'.
o.m.

Wayles Browne wrote:

> Possibly there is less oddness here than Robert Chandler suspects.
> The past perfective gerund is, in fact, not always past, though it is
> perfective. The Academy of Sciences' Russkaja grammatika, vol. 1,
> 1980, section 1589, points out that the perfective gerund in -v or -vshi
> can express:
> a previous action (ostanovivshis', skazal 'having stopped,
> he said'),
> or an accompanying action (sidit, naxmurivshis' 'he sits, frowning'),
> or a following action (rasstegnul sjurtuk, otkryv rubaxu navypusk
> 'he unbuttened his coat, exposing his shirt which was outside his
> trousers').
> The translations are mine, but I think they're logical; you couldn't
> have seen his shirt until after he unbuttoned his coat.
> A.I.Isachenko also discusses the "non-previousness" use of the
> perfective gerund in Grammaticheskij stroj russkogo jazyka, vol. II,
> Bratislava 1960, pages 534-539. He points out that placing this
> gerund after the main verb favors such an interpretation, and
> gives an example from Gogol':
> Ganna pospeshno vletela v xatu, zaxlopnuv za soboju dver'.
> Logically, says Isachenko, she had to rush in first and only then
> could she slam the door after her.
> Thus the translation would be: She rushed into the house,
> slamming (rather than: after slamming, or after having slammed)
> the door behind her.
> So perhaps Chandler's "utterly normal" translation of Platonov's
> sentence is the one to use.
>
> At 12:41 PM +0100 4/9/08, Robert Chandler wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> Platonov does something odd with time in this passage from the very 
>> end of
>> KOTLOVAN. Zhachev, the speaker, is in the barak, which is, I think, 
>> being
>> treated as somewhere separate from the kotlovan itself.
>>
>> ­ íš Ê ’˔˯¸, —ÚÓ þ Û•Ó” ËÏÔ•ËýÎËÁÏý, ý ÍÓÏÏÛÌËÁÏ ­ ›ÚÓ ”ÂÚÒÍÓ 
>> ”ÂÎÓ, Áý
>> ÚÓ þ Ë çýÒÚœ Îœ·ËÎ... èÓÈ”Û ÒÂÈ—ýÒ Ìý Ô•Ó˜ý̸ ÚÓ’ý•Ë˜ý èý¯ÍËÌý Û·¸œ.
>>
>> à Üý—Â’ ÛÔÓÎÁ ’ “Ó•Ó”, ·ÓΠÛÊ ÌËÍÓ“”ý Ì ’ÓÁ’•ýÚË’¯ËÒ¸ Ìý ÍÓÚÎÓ’ýÌ.
>> I Zhachev upolz v gorod, bolee uzhe nikogda ne vozvrativshis¹ na 
>> kotlovan.
>>
>> There is clearly something paradoxical about this use of the past 
>> perfective
>> gerund.
>>
>> At present we have:
>> ŒAnd Zhachev crawled away into the city, never to return to the 
>> foundation
>> pit.¹
>> But that is utterly normal, which the Russian clearly isn¹t.
>> Another possibility is Œnever having returned to the foundation pit¹. 
>> But
>> that too, I think, oversimplifies the meaning?
>>
>> The following versions are probably the closest, but they seem rather 
>> fussy.
>> The original seems much cleaner!
>> ŒAnd Zhachev crawled away into the city, never again to have gone 
>> back to
>> the foundation pit.¹
>> ŒAnd Zhachev crawled away into the city, not once to have gone back 
>> to the
>> foundation pit.¹
>>
>> The last seems to me the least bad, but can anyone suggest anything 
>> better?
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
> R.
>
>

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From meersono at GEORGETOWN.EDU  Wed Apr  9 18:52:38 2008
From: meersono at GEORGETOWN.EDU (Olga Meerson)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 14:52:38 -0400
Subject: Platonov 'Never to return'
In-Reply-To: <24DB7DB0-F195-47DE-AA0F-195C19DC9154@rent-a-mind.com>
Message-ID: <WED.9.APR.2008.145238.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

As a native speaker of russian NAD  a Platonov scholar, I don't 
understand what it means to be both 'normal' and 'within the borders of 
Platonov's stylistic register'. What do these borders (actually, 
parameters?) have to do with normalcy?
o.m.

Margarita Orlova wrote:

> As a native speaker, i believe the phrase is normal, though within  
> the borders of Platonov's chosen stylistic register.
>
>>  The past perfective gerund is, in fact, not always past, though it is
>> perfective.
>
>
> Another Platonov's possibility to express the future would be "chtoby  
> nikogda bolee uzhe ne vozvratiti'sa na kotlovan", but it switches the  
> register too high - away from his style.
>
> Margarita
>
>
>
> On Apr 9, 2008, at 4:41 AM, Robert Chandler wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> Platonov does something odd with time in this passage from the very  
>> end of
>> KOTLOVAN. Zhachev, the speaker, is in the barak, which is, I think,  
>> being
>> treated as somewhere separate from the kotlovan itself.
>>
>> – Ты же видишь, что я урод империализма, а коммунизм –  это детское  
>> дело, за
>> то я и Настю любил... Пойду сейчас на прощанье  товарища Пашкина убью.
>>
>> И Жачев уполз в город, более уже никогда не возвратившись на котлован.
>> I Zhachev upolz v gorod, bolee uzhe nikogda ne vozvrativshis’ na  
>> kotlovan.
>>
>> There is clearly something paradoxical about this use of the past  
>> perfective
>> gerund.
>>
>> At present we have:
>> ‘And Zhachev crawled away into the city, never to return to the  
>> foundation
>> pit.’
>> But that is utterly normal, which the Russian clearly isn’t.
>> Another possibility is ‘never having returned to the foundation  
>> pit’. But
>> that too, I think, oversimplifies the meaning?
>>
>> The following versions are probably the closest, but they seem  
>> rather fussy.
>> The original seems much cleaner!
>> ‘And Zhachev crawled away into the city, never again to have gone  
>> back to
>>  the foundation pit.’
>> ‘And Zhachev crawled away into the city, not once to have gone back  
>> to the
>> foundation pit.’
>>
>> The last seems to me the least bad, but can anyone suggest anything  
>> better?
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> R.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> ---
>>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your  subscription
>>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface  at:
>>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> ---
>>
>
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From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM  Wed Apr  9 21:06:11 2008
From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 17:06:11 -0400
Subject: Platonov 'Never to return'
In-Reply-To: <47FD1002.7010009@georgetown.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.9.APR.2008.170611.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Olga Meerson wrote:

> All of the examples used here are indeed important excerptions to the 
> action order with perfective gerunds. The one with Zhachev, however, IS 
> NOT. At least it is totally unclear when, in relation to leaving, 
> Zhachev never returned. 

To me it's perfectly clear -- "never" means "never." It refers to a time 
period beginning at departure and extending forward indefinitely. We 
don't have to be more specific than that, and we would drive ourselves 
crazy if we tried to pin down the precise time of "never" because by 
definition it /has/ no precise time.

Nor do I have a problem with the use of the gerund -- "никогда не 
возвратившись" functions the same way as "и никогда не возвратился 
(вернулся)." I've seen plenty of uses of past gerunds like this -- 
though of course I agree that it's no longer common in contemporary 
literature; it does have an antique feel to it.

> Platonov has other instances of treating time non-linearly: i dazhe
> obradovalsia nam, no vposledstvii oshibsia ('Ivan Zhokh), etc. The
> mistake refers to the time of rejoicing but its mistakenness is
> something that would become apparent only later. My friend and
> colleague Nancy Workman once translated that one as 'but later he had
> been in the wrong'.

If we accept your reading of the Russian, then the English does not say 
that -- it says (as the Russian appears to say) that the mistake 
occurred later. The only way I can see to convey the sense you intend in 
English is to interpolate: "but later he _found/learned/discovered/saw_ 
he had erred/been wrong/etc." (но впоследствии _понял, что_ ошибся).

-- 
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
pbg translations, inc.
"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
http://pbg-translations.com

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From chaput at FAS.HARVARD.EDU  Wed Apr  9 21:52:18 2008
From: chaput at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Patricia Chaput)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 17:52:18 -0400
Subject: Platonov 'Never to return'
In-Reply-To: <47FD2FC3.2060808@pbg-translations.com>
Message-ID: <WED.9.APR.2008.175218.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

To follow up on Wayles Brown's comments, the 
current language for characterizing gerunds/verbal 
adverbs is that

-they no longer have tense, only aspect, so in the 
contemporary language they are only imperfective 
or perfective;

-they are specifically timeless in morphology, 
unlike their tensed counterparts (present or past 
tense forms);

-because of the variety of adverbial and tensed 
phrases that they can replace, all that we can say 
is that the clause with gerund/verbal adverb is 
*subordinate* to the action of the main clause.

It would seem that gerunds/verbal adverbs might 
particularly appeal to Platonov and his 
non-linearity.  I am not sure that you can come up 
with a comparable subtlety in English for this 
particular construction.

Pat Chaput
Harvard University


-- 

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From wfr at SAS.AC.UK  Wed Apr  9 22:49:24 2008
From: wfr at SAS.AC.UK (William Ryan)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 23:49:24 +0100
Subject: PC vs. euphemism
In-Reply-To: <D275B935-CB60-4A57-9603-FC7AD0BAE492@american.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.9.APR.2008.234924.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Alina - I don't think this is specifically Russian, and in any case it 
is the kind of thing which is determined by context and register. The 
examples given suggest formal media reports or obituaries, which is a 
special context. Reticence by omission is not quite the same as 
euphemism. In obituaries in the 'quality' British newspapers  (e.g.The 
Times, Telegraph, Guardian, Independent) reticence about cause of death 
was once normal and is still quite common, especially if suicide, AIDS 
or HIV is concerned, while in ordinary conversation this is far less the 
case - probably the same is true elsewhere. As for rak not being uttered 
this is surely not so - Solzhenitsyn's Rakovyi korpus has been around 
now for exactly 40 years.
For lighter information on the socially appropriate euphemisms for death 
in Russian see chapter 2 of Il'f and Petrov's Dvenadtsat' stul'ev where 
they are hilariously listed.

Will Ryan


Alina Israeli wrote:
> Speaking of euphemisms, it is a long standing tradition in Russian to 
> avoid naming the cause of death in case of a natural death: dolgaja 
> prodolzhitel'naja bolezn' is usually cancer. Neozhidanno or 
> skoropostizhno skonchalsja usually a heart attack, and so on. Although 
> in recent years the information seeps through, unlike let's say even 
> twenty years ago when the word "rak" was not to be uttered (although 
> even then on occasion deducable).
>

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From kat_eady at HOTMAIL.COM  Wed Apr  9 23:22:17 2008
From: kat_eady at HOTMAIL.COM (Katherine Eady)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 16:22:17 -0700
Subject: book/article recommendations on human trafficking in
 russia/e. europe
In-Reply-To: <D68FFD5C2DF2174E9ACF9A4CA6458D810D386C31@alpha2.ad.stetson.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.9.APR.2008.162217.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

There was a roundtable held last year at U of Toronto titled 'Human Trafficking from Eastern Europe: North American and EU Responses'.  The speakers were recorded and mp3 files can be downloaded here: http://www.utoronto.ca/ceres/human_trafficking.html#program and further to the earlier response to your post, Louise Shelley is one of the keynotes.


> Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 13:07:28 -0400
> From: mdenner at STETSON.EDU
> Subject: [SEELANGS] book/article recommendations on human trafficking in russia/e. europe
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> 
> Colleagues,
> I remember we had a long discussion of this topic a few years ago, but I
> cannot find the thread. I student wrote, asking for advice. Does anyone
> have nominations on the standard reference, seminal articles on this
> topic? Particularly in its connection to the UDHR. 
> 
> Pls reply to me, mdenner at stetson.edu, off list.
> 
> Here's the request...
> 
> We're  working on our position papers, where we take a stance on a human
> rights abuse and write a formal report/plan of action to the UN on it.
> I'm writing mine on Human Trafficking, and it has been recommended that
> I narrow my focus to a smaller area of the world (I primarily was
> focusing on the general Australasia area, i.e. India, Thailand, China
> etc -way too big).
> 
> I thought it would make sense to focus on Eastern Europe (with the whole
> Russian Studies Major thing I have going on), and I was just wondering
> if, off the top of your head, you can think of or recommend any books or
> articles/studies on the subject.  
> 
> 
> 
> ~mad
> ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
>    Dr. Michael A. Denner
>    Editor, Tolstoy Studies Journal
>    Director, University Honors Program
> 
>    
>    Contact Information:
>       Russian Studies Program
>       Stetson University
>       Campus Box 8361
>       DeLand, FL 32720-3756
>       386.822.7381 (department)
>       386.822.7265 (direct line)
>       386.822.7380 (fax)
> 
>       google talk michaeladenner
>       www.stetson.edu/~mdenner
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Francoise Rosset
> Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 12:54 PM
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Gerasimov's picture "I.V. Stalin u groba A. A.
> Zhdanova"
> 
> On Wed, 9 Apr 2008 11:41:48 -0500
>   Monniern <Monniern at MISSOURI.EDU> wrote:
> > SEELANGS-tsy!
> > 
> > Does anyone know where I can find an image of Aleksandr Gerasimov's 
> >(Stalin
> > prize) award winning painting, "I.V. Stalin u groba A.A. Zhdanova"? 
> >I've
> > done the usual web searches and so far have come up with nothing . . 
> 
> Try Pitt's digital archive "Stalinka," specifically this:
> http://images.library.pitt.edu/cgi-bin/i/image/image-idx?sid=2f61ab7e949
> d60a3da2e4f5757a718c9&q1=Gerasimov&rgn1=stalinka_cr&op2=And&q2=Stalin&rg
> n2=stalinka_all&type=boolean&med=1&view=thumbnail&c=stalinka
> 
> I think that's what you want?
> -FR
> 
> Francoise Rosset, Associate Professor
> Chair, Russian and Russian Studies
> Coordinator, German and Russian
> Wheaton College
> Norton, Massachusetts 02766
> Office: (508) 285-3696
> FAX:   (508) 286-3640
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
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> -
> 
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_________________________________________________________________
Turn every day into $1000. Learn more at SignInAndWIN.ca
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From marinabrodskaya at GMAIL.COM  Wed Apr  9 23:39:30 2008
From: marinabrodskaya at GMAIL.COM (marina brodskaya)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 16:39:30 -0700
Subject: Summer Teaching Positions in Russian
In-Reply-To: <C3A7E6DB.BFFF%zodyp@beloit.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.9.APR.2008.163930.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Hello Patricia,
I'm not even sure if this is even your "department" but I was wondering if
we were somehow missing an important piece of information... we couldn't pay
in full for the 8-wk summer 2008 program. Sasha Guttentag paid $100 deposit
only. Should we try again at a later time?
Many thanks.

Marina 650-387-3168


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From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM  Thu Apr 10 06:46:57 2008
From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 07:46:57 +0100
Subject: Last thoughts (?!) on Platonov 'Never to return'
In-Reply-To: <47FD3A92.5030808@fas.harvard.edu>
Message-ID: <THU.10.APR.2008.074657.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Patricia and all,

I'm struck, above all, by the extent of the general disagreement, even among
native speakers.  This seems to say something about the subtlety of the
relationship between Platonov's work and grammatical rules.

И Жачев уполз в город, более уже никогда не возвратившись на котлован.
For what it is worth, my guess (intuitive - I am no linguist) is that the
oddity here arises from the fact that, whatever you expect after 'более уже
никогда' (bolee uzhe nikogda ne), it is NOT a perfective gerund.

Even if I am wrong here, and even if the question about Platonov's Russian
has not been resolved to everyone's satisfaction, discussing it in public
nearly always does help us to find something appropriate in English.  I'm
happy now with this: 'And Zhachev crawled away into the city, nevermore
returning to the foundation pit.'  The more obvious pathos of our earlier
'never to return to the foundation pit' seems un-Platonovan.  And another
version, 'never again to have returned to...' seems irritatingly fussy.

So: MANY THANKS to everyone who has contributed to this debate!

Robert

> To follow up on Wayles Brown's comments, the
> current language for characterizing gerunds/verbal
> adverbs is that
> 
> -they no longer have tense, only aspect, so in the
> contemporary language they are only imperfective
> or perfective;
> 
> -they are specifically timeless in morphology,
> unlike their tensed counterparts (present or past
> tense forms);
> 
> -because of the variety of adverbial and tensed
> phrases that they can replace, all that we can say
> is that the clause with gerund/verbal adverb is
> *subordinate* to the action of the main clause.
> 
> It would seem that gerunds/verbal adverbs might
> particularly appeal to Platonov and his
> non-linearity.  I am not sure that you can come up
> with a comparable subtlety in English for this
> particular construction.
> 
> Pat Chaput
> Harvard University
> 

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From dustin.hosseini at GMAIL.COM  Thu Apr 10 07:33:31 2008
From: dustin.hosseini at GMAIL.COM (Dustin Hosseini)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 02:33:31 -0500
Subject: Apartment available for July and August
Message-ID: <THU.10.APR.2008.023331.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear all,

I am subletting my apartment for the summer: from the 27th June until the
31st of August.  If you wish to stay less, then that would be fine as well.

The apartment is located at Metro Alexeevskaya, which is located 2 stops
north of Prospect Mira on the orange line; this is also 1 stop south of
VDNKh.  I live exactly 5 minutes from the metro.  

Please look at this link to see where the flat is in relation to the metro
and Moscow itself:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Russia,+gorod+Moskva,+gorod+Moskva,+%D0%91.+%D0%9C%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%8C%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F+%D1%83%D0%BB.+13&sll=55.805927,37.634194&sspn=0.009816,0.010064&ie=UTF8&ll=55.807263,37.633731&spn=0.009816,0.010064&z=16&iwloc=addr
If that doesn't work, then go to maps.google.com and type in the following:
Russia, gorod Moskva, gorod Moskva, &#1041;. &#1052;&#1072;&amp;#1088;&#1100;&#1080;&#1085;&#1089;&#1082;&#1072;&#1103; &#1091;&#1083;. 13 (the street is
Bol'shaya Mar'inskaya).

If you wanted to go to the Tretyakov Gallery, by metro, it would take you no
more than 15-20 minutes.  To the Russian State Library it would also take no
more than 15-20 minutes.  

My place is fully furnished and you will have the use of a telephone, fax,
the Internet, a printer/copier, and my computer if you wish.  I do have a
washing machine, as well as a blender, crock pot, fridge, and sandwich maker
among other things... Yes, there is a TV and stereo/radio/DVD player as
well.  I have a nice big fan, too, in case it gets too hot.  

If you would like to know more, please contact me directly via e-mail you or
you may call me at +1.214.556.5580 (a Dallas-based number that forwards to
my Moscow number) or ring me here in Moscow at +7.909.162.7191 or
+7.495.615.9777. 

Dustin 
 

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From J.Dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK  Thu Apr 10 08:32:03 2008
From: J.Dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK (John Dunn)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 10:32:03 +0200
Subject: PC vs. euphemism
Message-ID: <THU.10.APR.2008.103203.0200.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

To take up Will Ryan's point, in the days when the principle 'aut bonum, aut nihil' still applied, British (and, perhaps, other anglophone) newspapers developed a system of code words and phrases to use in obituaries: 'a confirmed bachelor' [gay], 'convivial' [always drunk], 'not one to suffer fools gladly' [in the habit of throwing paperweights at his  colleagues] and so on.  I don't recall seeing euphemisms of this kind in Russian/Soviet obituaries, perhaps because personal characteristics tended not be mentioned, perhaps because I'm not very good at reading between the lines.  Sometimes, however, euphemisms of a different kind were required: an obituary of Marshal Zhukov, in describing the vicissitudes of his post-1945 career, used the phrase: 'в сложный послевоенный период [v slozhnyj poslevoennyj period]', which is, I suppose, as good an example of the euphemistic use of сложный [slozhnyj] as one could wish to see.

John Dunn.

-----Original Message-----
From: Alina Israeli <aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU>
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 12:26:58 -0400
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] PC vs. euphemism

Speaking of euphemisms, it is a long standing tradition in Russian to  
avoid naming the cause of death in case of a natural death: dolgaja  
prodolzhitel'naja bolezn' is usually cancer. Neozhidanno or  
skoropostizhno skonchalsja usually a heart attack, and so on.  
Although in recent years the information seeps through, unlike let's  
say even twenty years ago when the word "rak" was not to be uttered  
(although even then on occasion deducable).


Alina Israeli
LFS, American University
4400 Massachusetts Ave., NW
Washington DC. 20016
(202) 885-2387 	
fax (202) 885-1076
aisrael at american.edu




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John Dunn
Honorary Research Fellow, SMLC (Slavonic Studies)
University of Glasgow, Scotland

Address:
Via Carolina Coronedi Berti 6
40137 Bologna
Italy
Tel.: +39 051/1889 8661
e-mail: J.Dunn at slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk
johnanthony.dunn at fastwebnet.it

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From maberdy at GMAIL.COM  Thu Apr 10 08:52:22 2008
From: maberdy at GMAIL.COM (Michele A. Berdy)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:52:22 +0400
Subject: sub-titles
Message-ID: <THU.10.APR.2008.125222.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Thanks to all for suggestions of films to review, and especially to Andy 
Hicks. I'd forgotten I had the film Kolya on VHS, and it was a good excuse 
to take a break from work to watch it again (justified as "doing research"). 
I'm happy to tell you that you did win at least one battle with the suits: 
Russian is in italics and Czech in roman. And the fractured sub-titles for 
the fractured Russian metro announcement are inspired.

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From wkerr at KU.EDU.TR  Thu Apr 10 09:10:51 2008
From: wkerr at KU.EDU.TR (WILLIAM KERR)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:10:51 +0300
Subject: Russian popular music
Message-ID: <THU.10.APR.2008.121051.0300.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Privet!

Could one of the experts in contemporary Russian music please help direct me to the Russian (lyrics and music) version of Celine Dion's "My Heart Will Go On" ('Titanic', 1997) .... unfortunately, no definite information on exact Russian title, performer, or year for the Russian version, but I have been advised it may have been performed by A. Petrova, first about 1999-2000.

With thanks for any leads and kind regards,

William Kerr
Koc Universitesi
34450 Sariyer
Istanbul Turkey

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From kevinreiling at YAHOO.COM  Thu Apr 10 09:29:05 2008
From: kevinreiling at YAHOO.COM (Kevin Reiling)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 02:29:05 -0700
Subject: Russian popular music
In-Reply-To: <47FE03CB.704E.004A.0@ku.edu.tr>
Message-ID: <THU.10.APR.2008.022905.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear William,

The Russian version ("Angel Moy") was sung by Tatiana Vasilyevna.

The lyrics can be found here:

http://www.karaoke.ru/song/2043.htm

Best wishes,

Kevin

WILLIAM KERR <wkerr at KU.EDU.TR> wrote: Privet!

Could one of the experts in contemporary Russian music please help direct me to the Russian (lyrics and music) version of Celine Dion's "My Heart Will Go On" ('Titanic', 1997) .... unfortunately, no definite information on exact Russian title, performer, or year for the Russian version, but I have been advised it may have been performed by A. Petrova, first about 1999-2000.

With thanks for any leads and kind regards,

William Kerr
Koc Universitesi
34450 Sariyer
Istanbul Turkey

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-- 

Kevin Reiling  
American Center for Education and Research, Inc.  
220114 Minsk BELARUS  
pr. Nezavisimosti 169-512 (south wing)  

220114 ̳íñê ÁÅËÀÐÓÑÜ  
ïð. Íåçàëåæíàñö³ 169-512 (ïà¢äí¸âàå êðûëî)  
Òýë./Ôàêñ: +375 (17) 218.12.64  
Ìàá³ëüíû:  +375 (29) 669.90.77
www.amcenter.by
 __________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

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From Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK  Thu Apr 10 09:36:41 2008
From: Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK (Alexandra Smith)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 10:36:41 +0100
Subject: Russian popular music
In-Reply-To: <779507.5841.qm@web36907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <THU.10.APR.2008.103641.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear William,

This is the Russian text produced by Vassil'eva:  
http://absoluteopenbsd.narod.ru/rare/lbvmtext.html
The recording of this song is available through one of the Russian  
sites that I visit sometimes. Let me know please if you need the  
actual recording of this song (in Russian).

All best,
Alexandra



==========================================
Alexandra Smith (PhD, University of London)
Reader in Russian
Department of European Languages and Cultures
School of  Languages, Literatures and Cultures
The University of Edinburgh
David Hume Tower
George Square
Edinburgh EX8 9JX
UK

tel. +44-(0)131-6511381
fax: +44- (0)131- 650-3604
e-mail: Alexandra.Smith at ed.ac.uk


Q

-- 
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.

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From reei at INDIANA.EDU  Thu Apr 10 13:51:16 2008
From: reei at INDIANA.EDU (REEI)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 09:51:16 -0400
Subject: Opportunities for Summer Ukrainian and Central Asian Language
 Study
Message-ID: <THU.10.APR.2008.095116.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

<http://www.indiana.edu/~iuslavic/swseel/>
IU's 2008 Summer Workshop in Slavic, East European and Central Asian Languages (June 13-August 8) is still accepting applications for Beginning and Intermediate levels in all languages. There is still space available for beginning Ukrainian. Also, funding is still available for Azerbaijani, Kazakh, and Turkmen. Check out the website for details.

http://www.indiana.edu/~iuslavic/swseel/

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From colkitto at ROGERS.COM  Thu Apr 10 13:56:04 2008
From: colkitto at ROGERS.COM (Robert Orr)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 09:56:04 -0400
Subject: PC vs. euphemism
Message-ID: <THU.10.APR.2008.095604.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

 the word "rak" was not to be uttered
> (although even then on occasion deducable).

so how did peopl talk about fresh water crustaceans,  or, indeed any 
crustaceans (rakoobraznyj) 

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From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU  Thu Apr 10 14:49:20 2008
From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 10:49:20 -0400
Subject: PC vs. euphemism
In-Reply-To: <009601c89b12$9e4b22e0$a095f163@yourg9zekrp5zf>
Message-ID: <THU.10.APR.2008.104920.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

What is it: a joke a day?

On Apr 10, 2008, at 9:56 AM, Robert Orr wrote:

> the word "rak" was not to be uttered
>> (although even then on occasion deducable).
>
> so how did peopl talk about fresh water crustaceans,  or, indeed  
> any crustaceans (rakoobraznyj)
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ---
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ---

Alina Israeli
LFS, American University
4400 Massachusetts Ave., NW
Washington DC. 20016
(202) 885-2387 	
fax (202) 885-1076
aisrael at american.edu




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From gusejnov at GOOGLEMAIL.COM  Thu Apr 10 15:34:29 2008
From: gusejnov at GOOGLEMAIL.COM (Gasan Gusejnov)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 19:34:29 +0400
Subject: PC vs. euphemism
In-Reply-To: <009601c89b12$9e4b22e0$a095f163@yourg9zekrp5zf>
Message-ID: <THU.10.APR.2008.193429.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

tsss, caveamus Native Speakers (TM) :),

for people in Russia did talk and did write not only about unforgettable
cancer but also about forgotten fresh water crustaceans. Both Soviet
folklore (also with its Rabelaisian hilarious obscenities) and official,
semi-official or quasi-official literature is full of various examples. It
is a matter of fact, that some people under certain circumstances tried to
avoid this word, as they do it now (e.g., some say "otdyxaet" instead "spit"),
others never use slang, etc., but it is just a segment of the variety of
speech habits. As to the Standard Philistine Russian, you'll find its
relatives all over the world (suburban? petty bourgeois?). Other Russian
examples of this philistine usage: ushel iz zhizni instead of umer, kushaetor
podkreplyaetsya instead of yest, person of Jewish Nationality instead of Jew,
zhiznelyub instead of babnik, and dozens and dozens of  similar expressions.

One should be careful with the Native Speakers (TM) in two cases.
When they/we say always and when they/we say never.
My dear Fellow Native Speakers (TM), please, never say always. Especially,
when you always say never, one never knows if there are any always at all in
our always So Different (TM) Soviet/Russian Culture. :) (although, of
course, everyone knows, the Russian Native Speakers (TM) never  use smayly!)

Best,
gg <http://stanislavsky.ng.ru/tema/2008-03-01/48_kovarstvo.html>



On 10/04/2008, Robert Orr <colkitto at rogers.com> wrote:
>
> the word "rak" was not to be uttered
>
> > (although even then on occasion deducable).
> >
>
> so how did peopl talk about fresh water crustaceans,  or, indeed any
> crustaceans (rakoobraznyj)
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                   http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>


-- 
Гасан Гусейнов

119992 г.Москва ГСП-2
Ленинские Горы
I Гуманитарный корпус
филологический факультет
кафедра классической филологии
+7 4959392006
мобильный:
+7 926 9179192
домашний:
+7 499 7370810


From kthresher at RANDOLPHCOLLEGE.EDU  Thu Apr 10 17:51:39 2008
From: kthresher at RANDOLPHCOLLEGE.EDU (Klawa Thresher)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:51:39 -0400
Subject: Pronunciation of "Cui"
In-Reply-To: A<007401c89ae8$44dc2f30$335cc20a@Sony>
Message-ID: <THU.10.APR.2008.135139.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Colleagues,

A musician has asked me how to pronounce this composer's name - and
specifically if the "C" is soft or hard.  He says that in Chinese the
name is pronounced as "Sway."  I hope someone can help me with this -
especially by transliterating it.

Thank you,
Klawa Thresher

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From frosset at WHEATONMA.EDU  Thu Apr 10 18:02:26 2008
From: frosset at WHEATONMA.EDU (Francoise Rosset)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 14:02:26 -0400
Subject: Pronunciation of "Cui"
In-Reply-To: <6E497ADB607656479C24E6D7BF6B505A0B14BC14@exchange.randolphcollege.edu>
Message-ID: <THU.10.APR.2008.140226.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:51:39 -0400
  Klawa Thresher <kthresher at RANDOLPHCOLLEGE.EDU> wrote:
> Dear Colleagues,
> 
> A musician has asked me how to pronounce this composer's name - and
> specifically if the "C" is soft or hard.  He says that in Chinese 
>the
> name is pronounced as "Sway."   

But that doesn't make much sense if his Russian name is Kjui
K-JU-I, sort of like Q-E as in QE II in English.
If that name is French, as I've heard it, then it might pronounced
à la française, which I can't begin to transliterate -- but such names
acquire an Russian pronunciation anyway.

Or is the Russian name really something else??
-FR

Francoise Rosset, Associate Professor
Chair, Russian and Russian Studies
Coordinator, German and Russian
Wheaton College
Norton, Massachusetts 02766
Office: (508) 285-3696
FAX:   (508) 286-3640

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From ozaslav at ALUMNI.UPENN.EDU  Thu Apr 10 18:13:45 2008
From: ozaslav at ALUMNI.UPENN.EDU (Olga Zaslavsky)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 18:13:45 +0000
Subject: Pronunciation of "Cui"
In-Reply-To: <web-17601132@wheatonma.edu>
 <6E497ADB607656479C24E6D7BF6B505A0B14BC14@exchange.randolphcollege.edu>
 <web-17601132@wheatonma.edu>
Message-ID: <THU.10.APR.2008.181345.0000.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

The best way to think of pronouncing the u would be a French u, as Françoise has pointed out, or a German ü (u umlaut).  So, this composer's name would be pronounced as Küee.

Olga Zaslavsky, PhD

> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 14:02:26 -0400
> From: frosset at WHEATONMA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Pronunciation of "Cui"
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> 
> On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:51:39 -0400
>   Klawa Thresher <kthresher at RANDOLPHCOLLEGE.EDU> wrote:
> > Dear Colleagues,
> > 
> > A musician has asked me how to pronounce this composer's name - and
> > specifically if the "C" is soft or hard.  He says that in Chinese 
> >the
> > name is pronounced as "Sway."   
> 
> But that doesn't make much sense if his Russian name is Kjui
> K-JU-I, sort of like Q-E as in QE II in English.
> If that name is French, as I've heard it, then it might pronounced
> à la française, which I can't begin to transliterate -- but such names
> acquire an Russian pronunciation anyway.
> 
> Or is the Russian name really something else??
> -FR
> 
> Francoise Rosset, Associate Professor
> Chair, Russian and Russian Studies
> Coordinator, German and Russian
> Wheaton College
> Norton, Massachusetts 02766
> Office: (508) 285-3696
> FAX:   (508) 286-3640
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 

_________________________________________________________________
Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger.
http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_messenger_video_042008
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From frosset at WHEATONMA.EDU  Thu Apr 10 18:15:09 2008
From: frosset at WHEATONMA.EDU (Francoise Rosset)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 14:15:09 -0400
Subject: Thank you (Russian popular culture)
In-Reply-To: <web-17601132@wheatonma.edu>
Message-ID: <THU.10.APR.2008.141509.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Many many thanks to those of you who provided me, on and off-list, 
with materials on Russian popular attitudes towards education, 
marriage, gender, family etc. in the time of Chekhov.

Merci beaucoup,
-FR

Francoise Rosset, Associate Professor
Chair, Russian and Russian Studies
Coordinator, German and Russian
Wheaton College
Norton, Massachusetts 02766
Office: (508) 285-3696
FAX:   (508) 286-3640

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From Monniern at MISSOURI.EDU  Thu Apr 10 20:39:04 2008
From: Monniern at MISSOURI.EDU (Monniern)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 15:39:04 -0500
Subject: Visiting Assistant Professor position at University of
 Missouri-Columbia
Message-ID: <THU.10.APR.2008.153904.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Applications are solicited for a one-year Visiting Assistant Professorship,
August 2008 to May 2009, with possible continuation in 2009-2010.  This
position requires the ability to teach across the curriculum (language,
literature, culture) at both the undergraduate and MA levels. Evidence of
scholarly promise is expected.  Experience teaching large lecture courses is
desirable.  PhD preferred; ABD considered.

Letter of application, cv, and three letters of recommendation should be
sent to Professor Nicole Monnier, Department of German and Russian Studies,
451 Strickland Hall, Columbia MO 65211.   Review of applications will begin
on May 14 and continue until the position is filled.  The University of
Missouri is an Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action/ADA employer.


****************************
Dr. Nicole Monnier
Assistant Teaching Professor of Russian
Director of Undergraduate Studies (Russian)
German & Russian Studies
428A Strickland (formerly GCB)
University of Missouri
Columbia, MO 65211

phone: 573.882.3370

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From pburak at TWCNY.RR.COM  Fri Apr 11 03:22:09 2008
From: pburak at TWCNY.RR.COM (pburak at TWCNY.RR.COM)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 23:22:09 -0400
Subject: Solzhenitsyn to receive honorary degree from Syracuse
 University
Message-ID: <THU.10.APR.2008.232209.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Colleagues:

Syracuse University is proud to announce that it is awarding an honorary degree to Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn on May 11, 2008.  His son, Stephan, will participate in the Commencement Ceremonies, which are open to the public, at 10:00 a.m. on Sunday, May 11, receiving this honorary degree on behalf of his father.  

On Friday, May 9, Stephan Solzhenitsyn will participate in a forum at 1:00 p.m., answering questions and providing perspectives on his father. This forum is open to the public, although designed primarily for students who have studied the works of Solzhenitsyn while engaged in undergraduate study at Syracuse University.  Dr. Edward Ericson, renowned Solzhenitsyn scholar from Calvin College, will moderate the forum.  If you would like to attend, please contact Dr. Patricia Burak, assistant professor of Russian Literature, at paburak at syr.edu for more information.

Sincerely,

Dr. Patricia A. Burak

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From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM  Fri Apr 11 03:49:06 2008
From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 23:49:06 -0400
Subject: Pronunciation of "Cui"
In-Reply-To: <web-17601132@wheatonma.edu>
Message-ID: <THU.10.APR.2008.234906.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Francoise Rosset wrote:

> On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:51:39 -0400
>  Klawa Thresher <kthresher at RANDOLPHCOLLEGE.EDU> wrote:
> 
>> Dear Colleagues,
>>
>> A musician has asked me how to pronounce this composer's name - and
>> specifically if the "C" is soft or hard.  He says that in Chinese the
>> name is pronounced as "Sway."   
> 
> But that doesn't make much sense if his Russian name is Kjui
> K-JU-I, sort of like Q-E as in QE II in English.
> If that name is French, as I've heard it, then it might pronounced
> à la française, which I can't begin to transliterate -- but such names
> acquire an Russian pronunciation anyway.

The usual Russian spelling of this syllable (Pinyin cui = Wade-Giles 
ts'ui) is цуй, indicating that the consonant is hard and voiceless and 
the vowel is not fronted. The corresponding soft syllable would be 
Pinyin qu = Wade-Giles ch'ü = Russian цюй.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrillization_of_Chinese_from_Pinyin>

There are no syllables containing кю- in this system.

The equation cui = цуй is confirmed here:
<http://www.cinemasia.ru/persons/_82/_7/827.html>

> Or is the Russian name really something else??

Assuming it's the very common Chinese name 崔, you can hear a native 
Chinese woman pronounce it here:
<http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/rsc/audio/voice_pinyin_cl/cui1.mp3>

Others more expert in Chinese can say whether "tsway" would be a 
regional dialectal pronunciation (e.g., Cantonese); I cannot.

-- 
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
pbg translations, inc.
"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
http://pbg-translations.com

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From amelia.glaser at GMAIL.COM  Fri Apr 11 03:56:01 2008
From: amelia.glaser at GMAIL.COM (amelia glaser)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 20:56:01 -0700
Subject: Query: Summer Russian language programs in Ukraine
Message-ID: <THU.10.APR.2008.205601.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Erin,

I don't know much about this program, but it is well-located in
Odessa, so she would both have the benefit of a Russian-language city
and a great summer scene.

http://www.studyrus.com/

Best,
Amelia



-- 
Amelia Glaser
Assistant Professor
Russian Literature
University of California, San Diego
Literature Building 3345
(858) 534-3809

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From kbtrans at COX.NET  Fri Apr 11 05:22:02 2008
From: kbtrans at COX.NET (Kim Braithwaite)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 22:22:02 -0700
Subject: Pronunciation of "Cui"
Message-ID: <THU.10.APR.2008.222202.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

There was a Russian composer whose name is generally rendered in English and 
Western European as Cesar Cui (1835-1918) - a member of "Les Six," I 
believe. In the Russian encyclopedia the name is rendered Цесарь Кюи 
[Tsesar' Kyui/Kiui] with the accent on the и [i]. Without further context I 
don't know if this is the composer the original query sought.

Mr Kim Braithwaite, Translator
"Good is better than Evil, because it's nicer" - Mammy Yokum (Al Capp)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul B. Gallagher" <paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM>
To: <SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Pronunciation of "Cui"


> Francoise Rosset wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:51:39 -0400
>>  Klawa Thresher <kthresher at RANDOLPHCOLLEGE.EDU> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>>
>>> A musician has asked me how to pronounce this composer's name - and
>>> specifically if the "C" is soft or hard.  He says that in Chinese the
>>> name is pronounced as "Sway."
>>
>> But that doesn't make much sense if his Russian name is Kjui
>> K-JU-I, sort of like Q-E as in QE II in English.
>> If that name is French, as I've heard it, then it might pronounced
>> à la française, which I can't begin to transliterate -- but such names
>> acquire an Russian pronunciation anyway.
>
> The usual Russian spelling of this syllable (Pinyin cui = Wade-Giles 
> ts'ui) is цуй, indicating that the consonant is hard and voiceless and the 
> vowel is not fronted. The corresponding soft syllable would be Pinyin qu = 
> Wade-Giles ch'ü = Russian цюй.
>
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrillization_of_Chinese_from_Pinyin>
>
> There are no syllables containing кю- in this system.
>
> The equation cui = цуй is confirmed here:
> <http://www.cinemasia.ru/persons/_82/_7/827.html>
>
>> Or is the Russian name really something else??
>
> Assuming it's the very common Chinese name 崔, you can hear a native 
> Chinese woman pronounce it here:
> <http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/rsc/audio/voice_pinyin_cl/cui1.mp3>
>
> Others more expert in Chinese can say whether "tsway" would be a regional 
> dialectal pronunciation (e.g., Cantonese); I cannot.
>
> -- 
> War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
> --
> Paul B. Gallagher
> pbg translations, inc.
> "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
> http://pbg-translations.com
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> 

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From kbtrans at COX.NET  Fri Apr 11 05:28:07 2008
From: kbtrans at COX.NET (Kim Braithwaite)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 22:28:07 -0700
Subject: Pronunciation of "Cui"
Message-ID: <THU.10.APR.2008.222807.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Oops. The Russian composer Cui (of French and Lithuanian extraction) was a 
member of "Les Cinq." According to Wikipedia, that appellation later 
inspired a French group to be dubbed "Les Six." Sorry.

Mr Kim Braithwaite, Translator
Good is better than Evil, because it's nicer" - Mammy Yokum (Al Capp)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul B. Gallagher" <paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM>
To: <SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Pronunciation of "Cui"


> Francoise Rosset wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:51:39 -0400
>>  Klawa Thresher <kthresher at RANDOLPHCOLLEGE.EDU> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>>
>>> A musician has asked me how to pronounce this composer's name - and
>>> specifically if the "C" is soft or hard.  He says that in Chinese the
>>> name is pronounced as "Sway."
>>
>> But that doesn't make much sense if his Russian name is Kjui
>> K-JU-I, sort of like Q-E as in QE II in English.
>> If that name is French, as I've heard it, then it might pronounced
>> à la française, which I can't begin to transliterate -- but such names
>> acquire an Russian pronunciation anyway.
>
> The usual Russian spelling of this syllable (Pinyin cui = Wade-Giles 
> ts'ui) is цуй, indicating that the consonant is hard and voiceless and the 
> vowel is not fronted. The corresponding soft syllable would be Pinyin qu = 
> Wade-Giles ch'ü = Russian цюй.
>
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrillization_of_Chinese_from_Pinyin>
>
> There are no syllables containing кю- in this system.
>
> The equation cui = цуй is confirmed here:
> <http://www.cinemasia.ru/persons/_82/_7/827.html>
>
>> Or is the Russian name really something else??
>
> Assuming it's the very common Chinese name 崔, you can hear a native 
> Chinese woman pronounce it here:
> <http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/rsc/audio/voice_pinyin_cl/cui1.mp3>
>
> Others more expert in Chinese can say whether "tsway" would be a regional 
> dialectal pronunciation (e.g., Cantonese); I cannot.
>
> -- 
> War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
> --
> Paul B. Gallagher
> pbg translations, inc.
> "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
> http://pbg-translations.com
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> 

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From s-hill4 at UIUC.EDU  Fri Apr 11 06:04:54 2008
From: s-hill4 at UIUC.EDU (Prof Steven P Hill)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 01:04:54 -0500
Subject: Pronunciation of Russian composer (cont.)
Message-ID: <FRI.11.APR.2008.010454.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear colleagues and Prof Thresher:

If "Cui" was of French ancestry (and if the surname "Cui" itself was 
French), then I suppose two separate questions would be: what is the 
"international" (French in this instance) pronunciation, and what is 
 the Russian pronunciation?   Similar examples would be Baudouin 
de Courtenais, Eisenstein, Potemkin, Wayland Rudd, etc., etc. 

For "Cui" I've  assumed, perhaps wrongly, that the "international" 
pronunciation would be in two syllables, with the stress on the final 
syllable (French-style):

k - yoo - EE.

But that may be a wrong assumption.  Pity I don't have at hand my 
Russian-published "Slovar' dlia rabotnikov radio i televideneniia," 
which can often be useful for "standard" Russian renditions of non-
Russian names.  Does anybody out there have a copy handy and 
could see what the "SdRRiT" has to say about our Monsieur-
gospodin Cui?

Best wishes to all,
Steven P Hill,
University of Illinois. 
_________________________________________________________________

Date: Fri 11 Apr 00:08:59 CDT 2008
From:  <LISTSERV at BAMA.UA.EDU> 
Subject: Re: GETPOST SEELANGS 
To: "Steven P. Hill" <s-hill4 at UIUC.EDU> 
 
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:51:39 -0400
From: Klawa Thresher <kthresher at RANDOLPHCOLLEGE.EDU> 
Subject: Pronunciation of "Cui" 

Dear Colleagues,
A musician has asked me how to pronounce this composer's name - and
specifically if the "C" is soft or hard.  He says that in Chinese the
name is pronounced as "Sway."  I hope someone can help me with this -
especially by transliterating it.
Thank you,
Klawa Thresher
____________________________________________________________________

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From G.Chew at RHUL.AC.UK  Fri Apr 11 07:17:05 2008
From: G.Chew at RHUL.AC.UK (Chew G)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 08:17:05 +0100
Subject: Pronunciation of "Cui"
Message-ID: <FRI.11.APR.2008.081705.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

"Les Six" were French (Poulenc et al), while the "Mighty Handful" (Balakirev, Cui et al) were Russian,
 
Geoff
 
 Geoffrey Chew
 Institute of Musicology, Masaryk University, Brno
 chewg at seznam.cz
 
 Department of Music, Royal Holloway, University of London
 g.chew at rhul.ac.uk

________________________________

From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list on behalf of Kim Braithwaite
Sent: Fri 11.4.08 06:22
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Pronunciation of "Cui"



There was a Russian composer whose name is generally rendered in English and
Western European as Cesar Cui (1835-1918) - a member of "Les Six," I
believe. In the Russian encyclopedia the name is rendered ?????? ???
[Tsesar' Kyui/Kiui] with the accent on the ? [i]. Without further context I
don't know if this is the composer the original query sought.


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-------------- next part --------------
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From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM  Fri Apr 11 07:31:22 2008
From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 03:31:22 -0400
Subject: Pronunciation of "Cui"
In-Reply-To: <008801c89b94$d2a76530$6501a8c0@your46e94owx6a>
Message-ID: <FRI.11.APR.2008.033122.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Kim Braithwaite wrote:

> Oops. The Russian composer Cui (of French and Lithuanian extraction)
> was a member of "Les Cinq." According to Wikipedia, that appellation
> later inspired a French group to be dubbed "Les Six." Sorry.

OK, evidently it's not Chinese at all, but French adopted into Russian.

At least you can see how a Chinese speaker might've been misled by the 
Roman spelling...

-- 
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
pbg translations, inc.
"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
http://pbg-translations.com

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From dustin.hosseini at GMAIL.COM  Fri Apr 11 07:45:15 2008
From: dustin.hosseini at GMAIL.COM (Dustin Hosseini)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 02:45:15 -0500
Subject: Pronunciation of Cui and Wikipedia
Message-ID: <FRI.11.APR.2008.024515.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

It surprises me that no one has mentioned Wikipedia.

If this composer was Cesar Cui, then his name is pronounced as "K yu ee" or
as it is in Russian: &#1050;&#1102;&#1080;.  

Here is the article in English: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C3%A9sar_Cui

And here is the article in Russian:
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D1%8E%D0%B8%2C_%D0%A6%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%8C_%D0%90%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87

And props to Paul for his correct pronunciation if the name were Chinese.

  

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From wfr at SAS.AC.UK  Fri Apr 11 09:05:42 2008
From: wfr at SAS.AC.UK (William Ryan)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 10:05:42 +0100
Subject: Pronunciation of Cui and Wikipedia
In-Reply-To: <LISTSERV%200804110245156362.01D9@BAMA.UA.EDU>
Message-ID: <FRI.11.APR.2008.100542.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Soviet Encyclopedic Dictionary gives the name as end-stressed, which is 
how I remember it. Web biography at 
http://opera.stanford.edu/iu/russmus/cui/cuibio.html says the family 
name at one time used to be spelled "Queuille". A famous Russian 
composer (and military engineer) is unlikely to be of Chinese extraction.
Will Ryan


Dustin Hosseini wrote:
> It surprises me that no one has mentioned Wikipedia.
>
> If this composer was Cesar Cui, then his name is pronounced as "K yu ee" or
> as it is in Russian: &#1050;&#1102;&#1080;.  
>
> Here is the article in English: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C3%A9sar_Cui
>
> And here is the article in Russian:
> http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D1%8E%D0%B8%2C_%D0%A6%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%8C_%D0%90%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87
>
> And props to Paul for his correct pronunciation if the name were Chinese.
>
>   
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>   

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From Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK  Fri Apr 11 10:19:14 2008
From: Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK (Alexandra Smith)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 11:19:14 +0100
Subject: a playful sketch on Lenin/Russian popular culture
Message-ID: <FRI.11.APR.2008.111914.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear colleagues,

Since we were reminded recently about the dark sides of Soviet history  
and Gerasimov's numerous portraits of Stalin, I would like to bring to  
your attention a playful comedy sketch on Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky, etc.  
called "Lenin na avtopati  revoliutsii". It was shown recently on  
Russian TV as part of the Comedy Club sketches. They include various   
sketches that present  Russian and Soviet history in a humorous vein.
  The address is:
http://www.tnt-tv.ru/programs/ComedyClub/video/147/video07.flv

All best,
Alexandra




----------------------------------------
Alexandra Smith (PhD, University of London)
Reader in Russian
Department of European Languages and Cultures
School of  Languages, Literatures and Cultures
The University of Edinburgh
David Hume Tower
George Square
Edinburgh EX8 9JX
UK

tel. +44-(0)131-6511381
fax: +44- (0)131- 650-3604
e-mail: Alexandra.Smith at ed.ac.uk





-- 
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.

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From ggerhart at COMCAST.NET  Fri Apr 11 18:56:29 2008
From: ggerhart at COMCAST.NET (Genevra Gerhart)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 11:56:29 -0700
Subject: Pronunciation of Cui and Wikipedia
In-Reply-To: <LISTSERV%200804110245156362.01D9@BAMA.UA.EDU>
Message-ID: <FRI.11.APR.2008.115629.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

And I'm disappointed that no one thought to look up Cui in the music chapter
of The Russian Context which tries to describe common knowledge among
educated Russians. Included are stresses, Les Cinq etc.

Genevra Gerhart
 
ggerhart at comcast.net
 
www.genevragerhart.com
www.russiancommonknowledge.com
 
-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
[mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Dustin Hosseini
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 12:45 AM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: [SEELANGS] Pronunciation of Cui and Wikipedia

It surprises me that no one has mentioned Wikipedia.

If this composer was Cesar Cui, then his name is pronounced as "K yu ee" or
as it is in Russian: &#1050;&#1102;&#1080;.  

Here is the article in English: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C3%A9sar_Cui

And here is the article in Russian:
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D1%8E%D0%B8%2C_%D0%A6%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%B0%
D1%80%D1%8C_%D0%90%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87

And props to Paul for his correct pronunciation if the name were Chinese.

  

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9:17 AM
 

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From pogacar at BGNET.BGSU.EDU  Fri Apr 11 19:57:17 2008
From: pogacar at BGNET.BGSU.EDU (Tim Pogacar)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 15:57:17 -0400
Subject: newsletter
Message-ID: <FRI.11.APR.2008.155717.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Marc,

Wanted to ask about three items under your name for the SSS newsletter.

Should these two be marked "interview with"?:

Forstneri_ Hajn_ek, Melita. "Fluid: Marc L. 
Greenberg, doktor slovanskega jezikoslovja, 
Lawrence, Kansas, ZDA. Ameri_an, ki je doktoriral 
iz prekmur__ine," Ve_er (16 June 2007), Maribor, 
56.
Lux, Lucas. "Unique Languages Critical to 
National Interest," KU Collegian, Spring 2007: 5. 
Lawrence: College of Liberal Arts & Sciences.

And is this a review of?
Marko Snoj. "The Origin of the Surname Ko_ak." 
Tabularia Hethaeorum. Hethitologische Beiträge 
Silvin Ko_ak zum. 65. Geburtstag. Dresdner 
Beiträge zur Hethitologie, Bd. 25, ed. by Johann 
Tischler. 643-652. Heidelberg: Otto Harrassowitz. 
[Slovene to English.]

Thanks! Good weekend, Tim

-- 
Timothy Pogacar, assoc. prof. of
    Russian and chair
Dept. of German, Russian &
    East Asian Langs.
Bowling Green SU
Bowling Green, OH 43403
419-372-8028

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From pogacar at BGNET.BGSU.EDU  Fri Apr 11 20:28:16 2008
From: pogacar at BGNET.BGSU.EDU (Tim Pogacar)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 16:28:16 -0400
Subject: mistaken send
In-Reply-To: <a06230902c42572d5c659@[129.1.105.52]>
 <8E8CCF898BBC1444A859A52BC2979EF005161BF2@MAILBOXFIVE.home.ku.edu>
 <8E8CCF898BBC1444A859A52BC2979EF005161BF2@MAILBOXFIVE.home.ku.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.11.APR.2008.162816.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Colleagues-

Apologies for filling another slot in your inbox w/a personal mesage
to a colleague at KU, tp


-- 
Timothy Pogacar, assoc. prof. of
    Russian and chair
Dept. of German, Russian &
    East Asian Langs.
Bowling Green SU
Bowling Green, OH 43403
419-372-8028

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From elizabethskomp at HOTMAIL.COM  Fri Apr 11 21:56:56 2008
From: elizabethskomp at HOTMAIL.COM (Elizabeth Skomp)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 17:56:56 -0400
Subject: Seeking apartment in Moscow (late May and early June)
Message-ID: <FRI.11.APR.2008.175656.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear SEELANGers,
 
I'm looking for an apartment (preferably two-room) in Moscow for about three weeks in the latter half of May and early June.  I'd be very grateful for any contacts and/or advice about reliable rental agencies.  Please reply off-list to eskomp at sewanee.edu.
 
Many thanks in advance,
Elizabeth Skomp
_________________________________________________________________
Pack up or back up–use SkyDrive to transfer files or keep extra copies. Learn how.
hthttp://www.windowslive.com/skydrive/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_skydrive_packup_042008
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From jwilson at SRAS.ORG  Sat Apr 12 05:43:17 2008
From: jwilson at SRAS.ORG (Josh Wilson)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 09:43:17 +0400
Subject: Seeking apartment in Moscow (late May and early June)
In-Reply-To: <BAY142-W79D07D4EB4569A1156D05C5EF0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <SAT.12.APR.2008.094317.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Elizabeth, 

We've often used to the Visa to Russia firm to arrange reasonably priced
apartments for the professor-led tours we've arranged for numerous
professors bringing students to Russia. The agency is trustworthy and very
professional. You can now even book with them directly through our site: 

http://www.sras.org/travel_services (see the accommodation section). 


Best of luck, 



Josh Wilson
Asst. Director
The School of Russian and Asian Studies
Editor-in-Chief
Vestnik, The Journal of Russian and Asian Studies
www.sras.org 
jwilson at sras.org


-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
[mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Skomp
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 1:57 AM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: [SEELANGS] Seeking apartment in Moscow (late May and early June)

Dear SEELANGers,
 
I'm looking for an apartment (preferably two-room) in Moscow for about three
weeks in the latter half of May and early June.  I'd be very grateful for
any contacts and/or advice about reliable rental agencies.  Please reply
off-list to eskomp at sewanee.edu.

 
Many thanks in advance,
Elizabeth Skomp
_________________________________________________________________
Pack up or back up-use SkyDrive to transfer files or keep extra copies.
Learn how.
hthttp://www.windowslive.com/skydrive/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refres
h_skydrive_packup_042008
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From rolf.fieguth at UNIFR.CH  Sat Apr 12 08:17:58 2008
From: rolf.fieguth at UNIFR.CH (FIEGUTH Rolf)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 10:17:58 +0200
Subject: AW: [SEELANGS] kolossalische   Skandal
Message-ID: <SAT.12.APR.2008.101758.0200.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Whatever Duden may say, "kolossalischer Skandal" is not idiomatically correct in German. "Kolossaler Skandal" is to be frequently met in old and recent German texts. Chekhovs phrase may by the way be an indirect echo from the well known operetta Der Bettelstudent, where we can read:
LAURA
O pfui, o pfui! Ganz unerhört ist der Skandal!

ALLE
O pfui, die Schande! Pfui, solche,Schmach
War noch nicht da, ganz unerhört
Ist der Skandal - pfui!

SYMON
Was beginn' ich nun? Was ist da zu tun?

OLLENDORF
Hahaha!
Wir steh'n gerächt nun da!
Zum allgemeinen Gaudium
Hab' Ich dies arrangiert! - Warum?
Ach, ich hab' sie doch nur
Auf die Schulter geküsst,
Und der Schlag mit dem Fächer
Vergolten nun ist!

ALLE
Ach, er hat sie doch nur usw.
Rasch ging die Freude zu End' -
Nur ein Bettelstudent!
Das ist impertinent!
Welch unerhörter Skandal,
Er bleibt nun ihr Gemahl,
Die Schmach ist kolossal.
Ach, er hat sie doch nur usw.
Nun ist zu End' der stolze Wahn,
Gerächt, was sie ihm angetan.
Gelungen ist der Racheplan!

Best wishes

RF 


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list im Auftrag von Helen Halva
Gesendet: Mi 26.03.:29
An: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu
Betreff: Re: [SEELANGS] kolossalische   Skandal
 
Dutch was possibility #1, obviously not correct.
Possibility #2 potentially describes  the German in the original conjecture.

Peter Houtzagers wrote:
> There is nothing Dutch about "kolossalische Skandal". My Duden lists 
> "kolossalisch" as a synonym of "kolossal", qualifying it as "gehoben". 
> The only "strange" thing is the lacking final -r, which is no problem 
> if the adjective is preceded by a definite article. Why shouldn't it 
> just be German?
>
> Peter Houtzagers
>

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From dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU  Sun Apr 13 04:23:46 2008
From: dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU (Edward M Dumanis)
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 00:23:46 -0400
Subject: European University in St. Peterburg
In-Reply-To: <20080411111914.37bjwqt7ms4wkw8g@www.staffmail.ed.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <SUN.13.APR.2008.002346.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

I am posting this query on behalf of Prof. Rimma Volynska who is not a 
list member at this time but who asked me for a favor of posting this 
query.
It seems to me that we had a discussion on this list about the European 
University in St. Peterburg, and if somebody has a summary of that 
discussion, please e-mail it to Prof. Volynska.
She asks, "what do other profs/scholars know and think ab. this University 
and its M.A. program?"

The following is from her message that I have received:
----------------------------------------
  Some of my students from the UWaterloo are interested in
  applying to the European University in St. Peterburg to their M.A.
  program. The application deadline is soon, but we really don't know much
  about the university nor the <M.A> program to give an opinion.

-----------------------------------------

Please reply directly to Prof. Volynska.
Her e-mail address is
Rimma Volynska <rvolynsk at hotmail.com>

Sincerely,

Edward Dumanis

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From ctweiner at BU.EDU  Sun Apr 13 10:45:31 2008
From: ctweiner at BU.EDU (Cori Weiner)
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 14:45:31 +0400
Subject: Teaching culture in the classroom
Message-ID: <SUN.13.APR.2008.144531.0400.CTWEINER@BU.EDU>

Dear SEELANGers:

I will be giving a presentation at an upcoming conference in St.  
Petersburg, entitled «Язык, культура,  
менталитет: проблемы изучения в  
иностранной аудитории».  My topic is on teaching  
non-native speakers specific elements of Russian culture, and I would  
like to consult with a handful of people on their experience. If I  
use your findings, I will of course credit you in the presentation.

My areas of interest are more global than usual: the role of memory  
in conversation and actions, understanding and using a different  
communication style, offering and requesting help, and how to  
consider your listener differently in conversation. I'm not looking  
for discussion questions, but for games or exercises that you may  
have used that would help non-native speakers better understand the  
differences in "mentality."

If you are interested, please respond off-list to ctweiner at bu.edu  
(hopefully already in the reply field.)

Cori








Cori Weiner
Center for English Language & Orientation Programs
Boston University
phone: 617-353-7902
fax: 617-353-6195
web: www.bu.edu/celop
------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------
CELOP is accredited by the Commission on English Language Program
Accreditation.  Accreditation by CEA signifies that an English language
program or institution has met nationally accepted standards of
excellence and assures students and their sponsors that the English
language instruction and related services will be of the highest
quality.





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From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM  Sun Apr 13 11:01:27 2008
From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler)
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 12:01:27 +0100
Subject: Teaching culture in the classroom
In-Reply-To: <FB45B9E8-EECF-4DD3-9EAE-A142A1FDD646@bu.edu>
Message-ID: <SUN.13.APR.2008.120127.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Cori Weiner,

> If you are interested, please respond off-list to ctweiner at bu.edu
> (hopefully already in the reply field.)
As often happens, you seem to be underestimating the extent to which a
particular question may be of general interest.  I suggest you encourage
people to respond ON-list!

Best Wishes,

Robert

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From brifkin at TEMPLE.EDU  Mon Apr 14 00:48:32 2008
From: brifkin at TEMPLE.EDU (Ben Rifkin)
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 20:48:32 -0400
Subject: Closure of German at USC
Message-ID: <SUN.13.APR.2008.204832.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Colleagues:

We American Slavists are often finding our own programs on the chopping
block.  The Chronicle of Higher Education reports that USC is closing down
its German department and major.  Of course this is very sad news; it may be
useful for us to read this article and understand the administrative context
in which deans and provosts make such decisions in order to position our own
programs so that they do not befall such a fate.

May Slavic programs around the world flourish and thrive,

Ben Rifkin



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From billings at NCNU.EDU.TW  Mon Apr 14 01:40:47 2008
From: billings at NCNU.EDU.TW (Loren A. Billings)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 09:40:47 +0800
Subject: Closure of German at USC
Message-ID: <MON.14.APR.2008.094047.0800.>

I was not able to access <chronicle.com> because it requires a fee. But see what 
the following site says about Russian too, quoting Howard Gillman, dean of the 
College of Letters, Arts and Sciences:

<http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/04/11/german>

"There was a time when because of world events, the study of German and 
Russian and a few other languages and cultures struck us as really central. We 
now have a much broader perspective in the world."

Read on. This site is freely accessible. --Loren

--==Mailed via NCNU E-Mail==--

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From a-wachtel at NORTHWESTERN.EDU  Mon Apr 14 03:03:12 2008
From: a-wachtel at NORTHWESTERN.EDU (andrew wachtel)
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 22:03:12 -0500
Subject: Closure of German at USC
In-Reply-To: <1208137247.2784.billings@ncnu.edu.tw>
Message-ID: <SUN.13.APR.2008.220312.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

>From my perspective (speaking as a Slavist and not as an administrator), it
is important to avoid getting trapped in a discussion of how many majors one
might have or even how many bodies your program can put in seats.  If you
allow this to be a zero-sum conversation about foreign languages then German
(and Slavic) will loose to Chinese (for sure) and Arabic (for now), and/or
Hindi (in the foreseeable future).  Speaking from the perspective of a dean
(which I am, for my sins), faculty positions in the humanities are
considered zero-sum and so it makes sense to shift them to "where the action
is."  The question that needs to be posed to these sorts of deans, however,
is, "if this is a zero-sum game, why don't you consider taking positions
away from the one area of the humanities that has many more positions than
it can possible justify--the teaching of the Anglo-American tradition?"  "If
we are going to create global citizens and global universities, why are more
than half the language and literature positions at most universities in the
English department, why are history departments split half and half between
Americanists and the rest of the world?"

Andrew Wachtel  



On 4/13/08 8:40 PM, "Loren A. Billings" <billings at NCNU.EDU.TW> wrote:

> I was not able to access <chronicle.com> because it requires a fee. But see
> what 
> the following site says about Russian too, quoting Howard Gillman, dean of the
> College of Letters, Arts and Sciences:
> 
> <http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/04/11/german>
> 
> "There was a time when because of world events, the study of German and
> Russian and a few other languages and cultures struck us as really central. We
> now have a much broader perspective in the world."
> 
> Read on. This site is freely accessible. --Loren
> 
> --==Mailed via NCNU E-Mail==--
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 

Andrew Wachtel
Dean, The Graduate School
Bertha and Max Dressler  Professor in the Humanities
Director, Roberta Buffett Center for International and Comparative Studies
Northwestern University
Evanston, IL 60208

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From julia8 at BERKELEY.EDU  Mon Apr 14 05:45:09 2008
From: julia8 at BERKELEY.EDU (Julia McAnallen)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 00:45:09 -0500
Subject: Russian Advertising Language � Online Survey
Message-ID: <MON.14.APR.2008.004509.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear SEELANGers,

I am conducting an online survey of Russian advertising language usage and am looking 
for individuals to take the survey.  If you are interested, please contact me off-list at 
julia8 at berkeley.edu.  I am mainly seeking native speakers of Russian, but non-native 
Russian speakers are also welcome.  All volunteers must be 18 or older.  The survey 
consists of twelve advertisements with accompanying questions.  The question types 
range from multiple choice to longer typed answers.  You may choose either Russian or 
English as the language of the survey, but the advertisements are primarily in 
untranslated Russian.  Russian, English, or a combination of Russian and English can be 
used at in the responses.  The survey will take about 20-30 minutes to complete, but 
depends to some extent on the length of your responses. There is no remuneration for 
taking the survey, but your answers will contribute to a project that seeks an improved 
understanding of the language use in Russian advertising

Again, if you are interested in participating, please contact me off-list at 
julia8 at berkeley.edu.

Thank you!

Julia McAnallen
University of California, Berkeley

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From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM  Mon Apr 14 14:53:36 2008
From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:53:36 +0100
Subject: Vysshii uchenyi sovet ( a few questions about Soviet scientific
 hierarchy)
Message-ID: <MON.14.APR.2008.155336.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear all,

I’m struggling a little with the correct terms in a chapter from Vasily
Grossman’s VSE TECHET.  It is the early 1950s.  Nikolay Andreyevich is a
fairly talented biologist, working in a research institute.

 Николай   Андреевич  стал   старшим  научным  сотрудником  в  знаменитом
научно-исследовательском   институте,   напечатал   десятки  работ,  защитил
докторскую  диссертацию.
What do people think of ‘Nikolay Andreyevich had gone on to take up a (??)
senior post at a famous research institute...’?

 Мандельштама, возглавлявшего научную часть института, сделали сотрудником
в  том  же  отделе,  где работал Николай Андреевич.
Here I have: ‘Mandelstam, who had been the head of the research (??nauchnuyu
chast’ instituta) section, was demoted to a junior post in the same section
as Nikolay Andreyevich.
(The background here is that of growing antisemitism.  It is before Stalin’s
death.)

Николай  Андреевич был выдвинут в Высший Ученый совет, а вскоре президиум
Академии утвердил его научным руководителем Института.
‘Vyshii uchenyi sovet’ is my biggest problem.  Am not sure whether this
‘sovet’ is part of the institute itself or – more likely – part of some
organization like the Academy of Sciences. Probably ‘Higher Scientific
Council’ - but I would like to have a clearer idea of just what this body
is!

Thanks in advance!

R.

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From pashuk at KNOLOGY.NET  Mon Apr 14 16:11:29 2008
From: pashuk at KNOLOGY.NET (Oleg Pashuk)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 12:11:29 -0400
Subject: Vysshii uchenyi sovet ( a few questions about Soviet
 scientific hierarchy)
Message-ID: <MON.14.APR.2008.121129.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Top Academic council?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Chandler" <kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM>
To: <SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU>
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 10:53 AM
Subject: [SEELANGS] Vysshii uchenyi sovet ( a few questions about Soviet 
scientific hierarchy)


Dear all,

I’m struggling a little with the correct terms in a chapter from Vasily
Grossman’s VSE TECHET.  It is the early 1950s.  Nikolay Andreyevich is a
fairly talented biologist, working in a research institute.

 Николай   Андреевич  стал   старшим  научным  сотрудником  в  знаменитом
научно-исследовательском   институте,   напечатал   десятки  работ,  защитил
докторскую  диссертацию.
What do people think of ‘Nikolay Andreyevich had gone on to take up a (??)
senior post at a famous research institute...’?

 Мандельштама, возглавлявшего научную часть института, сделали сотрудником
в  том  же  отделе,  где работал Николай Андреевич.
Here I have: ‘Mandelstam, who had been the head of the research (??nauchnuyu
chast’ instituta) section, was demoted to a junior post in the same section
as Nikolay Andreyevich.
(The background here is that of growing antisemitism.  It is before Stalin’s
death.)

Николай  Андреевич был выдвинут в Высший Ученый совет, а вскоре президиум
Академии утвердил его научным руководителем Института.
‘Vyshii uchenyi sovet’ is my biggest problem.  Am not sure whether this
‘sovet’ is part of the institute itself or – more likely – part of some
organization like the Academy of Sciences. Probably ‘Higher Scientific
Council’ - but I would like to have a clearer idea of just what this body
is!

Thanks in advance!

R.

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From M.J.BERRY.RUS at BHAM.AC.UK  Mon Apr 14 18:14:27 2008
From: M.J.BERRY.RUS at BHAM.AC.UK (Michael Berry)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 19:14:27 +0100
Subject: Vysshii uchenyi sovet ( a few questions about Soviet
 scientific hierarchy)
Message-ID: <MON.14.APR.2008.191427.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

I used to work on Soviet science and can offer the suggestions below:

What do people think of 'Nikolay Andreyevich had gone on to take up a (??)
senior post at a famous research institute...'?

Not quite accurate - starshii nauchnyi sotrudnik is a rank in the hierarchy, coming above mladshii n.s. so it would not necessarily be a senior post. Perhaps 'senior scientist'.
********

Here I have: 'Mandelstam, who had been the head of the research (??nauchnuyu
chast' instituta) section, was demoted to a junior post in the same section
as Nikolay Andreyevich.
(The background here is that of growing antisemitism.  It is before Stalin's
death.)
I would suggest avoiding the repetition of 'section' as 'chast'' and 'otdel' are different and omitting 'junior'. Perhaps say: M., who had been the head of the research division, was demoted to a post in the same section/department as N.A.
****

'Vyshii uchenyi sovet' - from the context it appears that it is within the institute and the one that follows it is a further step up, perhaps use 'supreme academic council. I'll check my bookshelves to see if I have anything which clarifies its responsibilities.
Please contact me offlist if I can be of further assistance.
Best wishes
Mike Berry
Honorary Senior Research Fellow,
Centre for Russian and East European Studies,
University of Birmingham,
Birmingham B15 2TT

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From pscotto at MTHOLYOKE.EDU  Mon Apr 14 19:21:19 2008
From: pscotto at MTHOLYOKE.EDU (pscotto at MTHOLYOKE.EDU)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:21:19 -0400
Subject: Closure of German at USC
In-Reply-To: <1208137247.2784.billings@ncnu.edu.tw>
Message-ID: <MON.14.APR.2008.152119.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Quoting "Loren A. Billings" <billings at ncnu.edu.tw>:

> "There was a time when because of world events, the study of German and
> Russian and a few other languages and cultures struck us as really 
> central. We now have a much broader perspective in the world."

As usual, they don't have a "broader perspective" -- just the usual 
short-term, bottom-line perspective. As Dean Wachtel noted, its about 
"where the action is" (funding) and marketing.

*sigh*



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From siskron at SFSU.EDU  Mon Apr 14 19:41:33 2008
From: siskron at SFSU.EDU (siskron at SFSU.EDU)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 12:41:33 -0700
Subject: Russian translation of Poe
In-Reply-To: <20080414152119.rz8dcyio9mgyswow@webmail.mtholyoke.edu>
Message-ID: <MON.14.APR.2008.124133.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Does anyone know what year Poe's short story "The Fall of the House of  
Usher" was first translated into Russian? Please respond to  
siskron at sfsu.edu. Thanks. Katerina Siskron, SFSU

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From Danko.Sipka at ASU.EDU  Mon Apr 14 20:09:40 2008
From: Danko.Sipka at ASU.EDU (Danko Sipka)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 13:09:40 -0700
Subject: New Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian publication
Message-ID: <MON.14.APR.2008.130940.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

      http://www.dunwoodypress.com/products/-/266

      A Dictionary of Bosnian / Croatian / Serbian - English False Cognates



      Author: Danko Šipka
      ISBN: 978-1-931546-45-4
      Year Published: 2008
      Detail: 150 Pages
      This Dictionary of Bosnian / Croatian / Serbian - English False 
Cognates contains 929 BCS words in two languages that share the same form, 
but have different meanings.
      The dictionary is intended for English learners and professionals 
working with BCS. It is designed to be a quick reference and to alert the 
user to potential pitfalls when learning, translating, interpreting, and 
analyzing BCS texts.

      Each entry contains a BCS word followed by its English false cognate. 
Each member of the pair is supplied with a part of speech and inflectional 
tag, followed by the description of the meaning. All meanings are defined in 
English. The definition of the meaning is followed by a synonym (where 
appropriate) and bolded L2 equivalent (in all entries).

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From Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK  Tue Apr 15 00:23:57 2008
From: Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK (Alexandra Smith)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 01:23:57 +0100
Subject: Russian translation of Poe
In-Reply-To: <20080414124133.7tcgi5plw480wk0o@webmail.sfsu.edu>
Message-ID: <TUE.15.APR.2008.012357.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Katerina,

I think that it was translated by Konstantin Balmont in 1895 or so.  
The Russian title is Padenie doma Ashera.

All very best,
Alexandra


======================================
Alexandra Smith (PhD, University of London)
Reader in Russian
Department of European Languages and Cultures
School of  Languages, Literatures and Cultures
The University of Edinburgh
David Hume Tower
George Square
Edinburgh EX8 9JX
UK

tel. +44-(0)131-6511381
fax: +44- (0)131- 650-3604
e-mail: Alexandra.Smith at ed.ac.uk






-- 
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.

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From Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK  Tue Apr 15 00:34:27 2008
From: Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK (Alexandra Smith)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 01:34:27 +0100
Subject: Poe- 1886 Suvorin's edition
Message-ID: <TUE.15.APR.2008.013427.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Katerine,

I've just discovered the edition od Poe's stories published by Suvorin.
The Suvorin's edition gives the title of Poe's story as Padenie doma  
Ousherov, no name of the translator is mentioned. This edition of  
Poe's stories was published in 1885. The description of it is  
available here:
http://www.bibliograph.ru/Biblio/P/Poe/Avtors.html

All best,
Alexandra Smith

-- 
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.

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From a.jameson2 at DSL.PIPEX.COM  Tue Apr 15 15:08:30 2008
From: a.jameson2 at DSL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 16:08:30 +0100
Subject: Reading Russian Texts
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20080407122925.01daab90@imap.wittenberg.edu>
Message-ID: <TUE.15.APR.2008.160830.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

For those teaching adults or scientists to read Russian, I used to use
READING MODERN RUSSIAN by Jules F Levin and Peter D Haikalis, Slavica 1979.
This uses a radical scientific approach, not a philological one.

For those teaching historians, I used to use
GRADED READINGS IN RUSSIAN HISTORY, ed with chapter-by-chapter vocabs,
exercises and MAPS by Leon Stilman, Columbia, 1960 (up to Ivan III).
After that A LECTURE ON RUSSIAN HISTORY, ed with on-page vocab and notes by
Horace Lunt, Mouton 1959 (beginning of 19c to the revolution).

Best reader for intermediates in my experience was:
RUSSIAN READING FOR MEANING, ed. George A. C. Scherer, Harcourt Brace, 1967.
This has a controlled vocabulary for students who have completed "two
levels" of classroom instruction. The texts are genuinely interesting, not
condescending, juvenile or trite as many early readers are. This could be
the first book which your students could use for extensive reading.

The Rolls Royces of advanced Russian readers must be the series produced by
Harcourt Brace in the 60s-70s. They were equipped with introductory
articles, preparatory texts, marginal translations of difficult words,
contextual footnotes, exercises afterwards, full vocabs, just fabulous. The
titles were:
BALLAD OF A SOLDIER, ed Laurence C Thompson et al., 1966
NEW VOICES. CONTEMPORARY SOVIET SHORT STORIES, ed Kenneth Harper et al.,
1966
A CENTURY OF RUSSIAN PROSE AND VERSE. FROM PUSHKIN TO NABOKOV, ed Gleb
Struve et al., 1967
EYEWITNESS. SELECTIONS FROM RUSSIAN MEMOIRS, ed D Barton Johnson et al, 1971
(includes a "slovar' -minimum").
I'm sure there are copies available on the Internet.

Andrew Jameson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------
These are oldies and goodies, , but what about the modern proficiency method
by Irene Thompson, Reading Real Russian??? LZ
>I'd share my ideas on the sources I used. In most of these books, you 
>can either ignore the grammar-related assignments or just slightly 
>reflect on them to connect with the texts. The latter have good 
>follow-up questions that can also help in the development of both reading
and further oral speech.
>
>1. "Mir Russkix" by Z. Dabars et al, Dubuque, IA 1997
>
>2. "Pattern Drills in Russian" by N. Maltzoff, New York, 1960
>
>3. "Russkii yazyk dlya vsex" by V. Kostomarov, Ed., Moscow, 1977
>
>4. "Russian Intermediate Reader" by I. Mihalchenko, Ed., 1977
>
>5. "Beginner's Russian Reader" by L. Pargment, New York, 1963
>
>Best,
>Ashot Vardanyan, University of Iowa>
>
>
>04/07 00:36 Laura Kline <klinela at COMCAST.NET> wrote:
> > Can anyone recommend a good textbook for students who want to focus 
> > on developing reading skills only? They would be starting at the 
> > beginning level.
> > Thank you!
> > Laura> >
> >
> >
> > Laura Kline, Ph.D
> > Senior Lecturer in Russian
> > Department of German and Slavic Studies Wayne State University
> > 443 Manoogian Hall
> > 906 W. Warren
> > Detroit, MI  48202
> > fax: 313-577-3266
> > af7585 at wayne.edu
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -----  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your 
> > subscription
> >   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface
> > at:
> >                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------

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From shatsev at HOTMAIL.COM  Tue Apr 15 18:01:38 2008
From: shatsev at HOTMAIL.COM (Wladimir Shatsev)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 14:01:38 -0400
Subject: AW: [SEELANGS] kolossalische   Skandal
In-Reply-To: <C1EF650762910941B6E14B883DD81BF558E127@EXCHANGE3.unifr.ch>
Message-ID: <TUE.15.APR.2008.140138.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear  Prof . Fiegut ,

 

Thank you very much for the idea of “ indirect
echo” of Der Bettelstudent in
Chekhov’s The Man in a Case.

I always suspected that  “kolossalische   Skandal “ is a sort of quotation. I have
just found out that Chekhov  knew about
this very operetta and obviously had seen it 
in  the theatre either in Moscow
or probably   in Vienna in  the end of 
March of 1891.

By the way, do you know any literary works
about Chekhov and Suvorin visiting Vienna and some theatres there ?

 I do
hope that a bit later I could  explain
how this  incorrect German phrase and quotation
meanwhile describes  the narrator Burkin
in The Man in a Case.

Being  
teacher of Russian and Literature  
with 26 years  experience I am    realiazing my ncompetence in academic research
. However  , I am doing my PhD- better
late than never – in Pushkinsky Dom 
under the supervision of Sergey Fomichev and inspired by him I  would like to pay attention to every detail.

 Tomorrow
I will  try  to   
get this play in Russian translation of Yaron in  the St.Pete National Library . 

It seems to me that  something new can be found . 

May I hope for your permission to quote your
letter in the essay  I probably would
like to publish sooner or later in the magazine Russkaya Literatura ?

 





Regards,



Vladimir Shatsev



> Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 10:17:58 +0200
> From: rolf.fieguth at UNIFR.CH
> Subject: [SEELANGS] AW: [SEELANGS] kolossalische   Skandal
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> 
> Whatever Duden may say, "kolossalischer Skandal" is not idiomatically correct in German. "Kolossaler Skandal" is to be frequently met in old and recent German texts. Chekhovs phrase may by the way be an indirect echo from the well known operetta Der Bettelstudent, where we can read:
> LAURA
> O pfui, o pfui! Ganz unerhört ist der Skandal!
> 
> ALLE
> O pfui, die Schande! Pfui, solche,Schmach
> War noch nicht da, ganz unerhört
> Ist der Skandal - pfui!
> 
> SYMON
> Was beginn' ich nun? Was ist da zu tun?
> 
> OLLENDORF
> Hahaha!
> Wir steh'n gerächt nun da!
> Zum allgemeinen Gaudium
> Hab' Ich dies arrangiert! - Warum?
> Ach, ich hab' sie doch nur
> Auf die Schulter geküsst,
> Und der Schlag mit dem Fächer
> Vergolten nun ist!
> 
> ALLE
> Ach, er hat sie doch nur usw.
> Rasch ging die Freude zu End' -
> Nur ein Bettelstudent!
> Das ist impertinent!
> Welch unerhörter Skandal,
> Er bleibt nun ihr Gemahl,
> Die Schmach ist kolossal.
> Ach, er hat sie doch nur usw.
> Nun ist zu End' der stolze Wahn,
> Gerächt, was sie ihm angetan.
> Gelungen ist der Racheplan!
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> RF 
> 
> 
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list im Auftrag von Helen Halva
> Gesendet: Mi 26.03.:29
> An: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu
> Betreff: Re: [SEELANGS] kolossalische   Skandal
>  
> Dutch was possibility #1, obviously not correct.
> Possibility #2 potentially describes  the German in the original conjecture.
> 
> Peter Houtzagers wrote:
> > There is nothing Dutch about "kolossalische Skandal". My Duden lists 
> > "kolossalisch" as a synonym of "kolossal", qualifying it as "gehoben". 
> > The only "strange" thing is the lacking final -r, which is no problem 
> > if the adjective is preceded by a definite article. Why shouldn't it 
> > just be German?
> >
> > Peter Houtzagers
> >
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 

_________________________________________________________________
Find hidden words, unscramble celebrity names, or try the ultimate crossword puzzle with Live Search Games. Play now!
http://g.msn.ca/ca55/212
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From john at RUSLAN.CO.UK  Tue Apr 15 20:11:05 2008
From: john at RUSLAN.CO.UK (John Langran)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:11:05 +0100
Subject: Accented cyrillic vowels for MAC - help!
Message-ID: <TUE.15.APR.2008.211105.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Colleagues

Can anyone help Tanya Connelly in Amsterdam who is preparing a Russian 
course for a hotel school? She wants to be able to type Russian characters 
with accented vowels using a Mac.

I can help her with MSWord etc using the Ruslan CDRom fonts, but I can't 
help with Macs.

I guess others will be interested in this, but Tanya is not a list member 
(yet?), so if anyone can help, please copy your ideas to her off list:
tatyanaconnelly at yahoo.co.uk

Blagodaryu zaranee!

John Langran
www.ruslan.co.uk

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From Ralph.Cleminson at PORT.AC.UK  Wed Apr 16 08:52:01 2008
From: Ralph.Cleminson at PORT.AC.UK (Ralph Cleminson)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:52:01 +0100
Subject: Obshtezhitie
Message-ID: <WED.16.APR.2008.095201.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

I am pleased to announce the launch of a new, improved version of the
Obshtezhitie site.  This can now be found on
http://www.obshtezhitie.net/ and contains a selection of resources,
news, links, editions, catalogues, etc. relevant to text encoding and
interchange with particular reference to Slavonic manuscripts and
early-printed books.

I wish to record my gratitude to the many colleagues who have helped
me
in preparing this site, in particular Professor David Birnbaum.  As
its
name suggests, Obshtezhitie has always been conceived as a collective
effort, and I am hopeful that everyone who has information that they
would like to share, or electronic editions or resources that they
would
like to make available, will take advantage of Obshtezhitie for that
purpose.  There is considerable potential for growth, and the more
contributions we have, the more useful the site will be.

Ralph Cleminson
Curator

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From polly.jones at GMAIL.COM  Wed Apr 16 10:33:04 2008
From: polly.jones at GMAIL.COM (Polly Jones)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:33:04 +0100
Subject: 'The Relaunch of the Soviet Project, 1945-64',
 special issue of Slavonic and East European Review, April 2008
Message-ID: <WED.16.APR.2008.113304.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

We are pleased to announce the publication of a special issue of
'Slavonic and East European Review', entitled 'The Relaunch of the
Soviet Project, 1945-64'. The table of contents is given below.



'Slavonic and East European Review', 86:2, April 2008, 'The Relaunch
of the Soviet Project'
edited by Juliane Furst, Polly Jones, Susan Morrissey


                                                         Juliane
Furst, Polly Jones, Susan Morrissey: 'The Relaunch of the Soviet
Project, 1945-64: Introduction'

                                                                Amir
Weiner, 'Robust Revolution to Retiring Revolution: The Life Cycle of
the Soviet Revolution, 1945-1964'

Juliane Furst, 'Between Salvation and Liquidation: Homeless and
Vagrant Children and the Reconstruction of Soviet Society'

Timothy Johnston, 'Peace or Pacifism? The Soviet "Struggle For Peace
in All the World", 1948-54'

Mark B. Smith, 'Individual Forms of Ownership in the Urban Housing
Fund of the USSR, 1944-64'

Cynthia Hooper, 'What Can and Cannot Be Said: Between the Stalinist
Past and New Soviet Future'

Miriam Dobson, 'POWs and Purge Victims: Attitudes Towards Party
Rehabilitation, 1956-57'

Polly Jones, 'Memories of Terror or Terrorizing Memories? Terror,
Trauma and Survival in Soviet Culture of the Thaw'

Susan Costanzo, 'Amateur Theatres and Amateur Publics in the Russian
Republic, 1958-71'

Publications Received

-- 
Dr Polly Jones
Lecturer in Russian
School of Slavonic and East European Studies (SSEES-UCL)
University College London
Gower St
London WC1E 6BT
0207 679-8723
P.jones at ssees.ucl.ac.uk; polly.jones at gmail.com
http://www.ssees.ucl.ac.uk

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From juliaver at SAS.UPENN.EDU  Wed Apr 16 17:53:36 2008
From: juliaver at SAS.UPENN.EDU (Julia Verkholantsev)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:53:36 -0400
Subject: Fifth Annual Spring Slavic Symposium,
 THE USES OF THE PAST: April 25, 2008
Message-ID: <WED.16.APR.2008.135336.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

The Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures at the University of
Pennsylvania

cordially invites you to

the Fifth Annual Spring Slavic Symposium

This year’s theme is THE USES OF THE PAST

When: FRIDAY, APRIL 25, 2008
Where: University of Pennsylvania, Max Kade Center (3401 Walnut St, Room
329A)

For more information please visit our website at
http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/slavic/events/slavic_symposium/slavic_symposium_index.htm

or contact Julia Verkholantsev at juliaver at sas.upenn.edu

SYMPOSIUM PROGRAM

10:00 am – 12:00 pm, SESSION I

Serhii Plokhii (Harvard University)
"Renegotiating the Past: Hadiach Agreement (1658) in the History of the
Rus"

Olenka Z. Pevny (University of Richmond)
"Medieval Monuments and the Building of National Identity in Ukraine"

Edward L. Keenan (Harvard University)
"The Uses of the Past: the East Slavic Case"

Discussant: Benjamin Nathans (University of Pennsylvania)

1:30 – 3:30 pm, SESSION II

Donald Ostrowski (Harvard University)
"The Shifting Present and Written Images of the Mongols"

Cherie Woodworth (Yale University)
"Defective Narratives and the Mother-in-Law Problem or History and Genealogy:
Personal and Political in 15th-Century Muscovy"

Kevin M. F. Platt (University of Pennsylvania)
"Allegory’s Half-life: The Specter of Stalin’s Ivan in Contemporary Russia"

Discussant: Robert Ousterhout (University of Pennsylvania)

4:00 – 6:00 pm, SESSION III

Stephen M. Norris (Miami University)
"Terrorism Then and Now: Karen Shakhnazarov’s Rider Called Death (2003)
and the Contemporary Historical Film"

Kathleen E. Smith (Georgetown University and George Washington University)
"Spinning the Secret Speech: Propagandists and the Stalinist Past in 1956"

Seguei A. Oushakine (Princeton University)
"A Confused Story of Confusion: Narrating History in Russian War Songs"

Discussant: Peter Holquist (University of Pennsylvania)

6:00 – 7:00 pm, RECEPTION


-- 
Julia Verkholantsev
Assistant Professor, Slavic Languages and Literatures
University of Pennsylvania
745 Williams Hall
255 South 36th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19104-6305

http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/slavic/

Tel: 215-898-8649
Fax: 215-573-7794

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From slavic at CHASS.UTORONTO.CA  Wed Apr 16 19:02:25 2008
From: slavic at CHASS.UTORONTO.CA (Fiona Gardiner)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:02:25 -0500
Subject: University of Toronto Visiting Professor for Hungarian Language
 and Literature
Message-ID: <WED.16.APR.2008.140225.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Colleagues:

I enclose an announcement of a position available in my department, 
effective September 1, 2008.  I invite those interested to apply and 
would I would be most grateful if you would draw it to the attention of 
qualified candidates.

Sincerely,

Donna Tussing Orwin
Acting Chair
Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures
University of Toronto.


VISITING PROFESSOR FOR HUNGARIAN LANGUAGE AND LITERATURE ANNOUNCEMENT

The Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures at the University of 
Toronto invites applications for a visiting professorship in Hungarian 
Language and Literature.  Appointment is for one eight-month appointment 
that can be renewed for a second year.  The appointment will commence on 
September 1, 2008.  The professor will teach elementary and intermediate 
language classes in alternate years, and two more undergraduate classes 
on language, literature, or other arts such as drama or cinema.  The 
professor will choose subjects and set up the courses (subject to review 
by the selection committee).  He/she has to select the readings and/or 
provide in-class texts.  Pre-requisite: Ph.D. in Hungarian language and 
literature, or other cognate field; and communicating skill in English.  
Salary: commensurate with qualifications and experience.

Please send curriculum vitae, letter of application, proof of English 
language proficiency, three letters of reference and suggested course 
syllabuses for the two non-language courses to: Professor Donna Tussing 
Orwin, Acting Chair, Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures, 
University of Toronto, 121 St.Joseph Street, Room 431, Toronto, Ontario 
M5S 1J4, Canada.  Application deadline:  May 30, 2008.

All qualified candidates are encouraged to apply; however, Canadians and 
permanent residents will be given priority. The University of Toronto is 
strongly committed to diversity within its community and especially 
welcomes applications from visible minority groups members, women, 
Aboriginal persons, persons with disabilities, members of sexual 
minority groups, and others who may contribute to the further 
diversification of ideas.

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From slavic at CHASS.UTORONTO.CA  Wed Apr 16 21:15:28 2008
From: slavic at CHASS.UTORONTO.CA (Fiona Gardiner)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 16:15:28 -0500
Subject: CORRECTION: University of Toronto Visiting Professor for
 Hungarian Language and Literature
Message-ID: <WED.16.APR.2008.161528.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Colleagues:

My apologies, please disregard the previous email.

I enclose an announcement of a position available in my department,
effective September 1, 2008.  I invite those interested to apply and
would I would be most grateful if you would draw it to the attention of
qualified candidates.

Sincerely,

Donna Tussing Orwin
Acting Chair
Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures
University of Toronto.


VISITING PROFESSOR FOR HUNGARIAN LANGUAGE AND LITERATURE ANNOUNCEMENT

The Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures at the University of
Toronto invites applications for a visiting professorship in Hungarian
Language and Literature.  Appointment is for one eight-month appointment
that can be renewed for a second year.  The appointment will commence on
September 1, 2008.  The professor will teach elementary and intermediate
language classes in alternate years, and two more undergraduate classes
on language, literature, or other arts such as drama or cinema.  The
professor will choose subjects and set up the courses (subject to review
by the selection committee).  He/she has to select the readings and/or
provide in-class texts.  Pre-requisite: Ph.D. in Hungarian language and
literature, or other cognate field; and communicating skill in English.
Salary: commensurate with qualifications and experience.

Please send curriculum vitae, letter of application, proof of English
language proficiency, three letters of reference and suggested course
syllabuses for the two non-language courses to: Professor Donna Tussing
Orwin, Acting Chair, Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures,
University of Toronto, 121 St.Joseph Street, Room 431, Toronto, Ontario
M5S 1J4, Canada.  Application deadline:  May 30, 2008.

The University of Toronto is strongly committed to diversity within its 
community.  The University of Toronto especially welcomes applications 
from visible minority group members, women, Aboriginal persons, persons 
with disabilities, members of sexual minority groups, and others who may 
contribute to further diversification of ideas.

All qualified candidates are encouraged to apply; however, Canadians and 
permanent residents will be given priority.

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From siskron at SFSU.EDU  Wed Apr 16 21:15:17 2008
From: siskron at SFSU.EDU (siskron at SFSU.EDU)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:15:17 -0700
Subject: Russian translation of Poe
In-Reply-To: <20080415012357.lvm4i43dg0scgkkc@www.staffmail.ed.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <WED.16.APR.2008.141517.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Thank you for your response. It is helpful to learn that that the  
Balmont translation actually included this particular story. Katerina

Quoting Alexandra Smith <Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK>:

> Dear Katerina,
>
> I think that it was translated by Konstantin Balmont in 1895 or so. The
> Russian title is Padenie doma Ashera.
>
> All very best,
> Alexandra
>
>
> ======================================
> Alexandra Smith (PhD, University of London)
> Reader in Russian
> Department of European Languages and Cultures
> School of  Languages, Literatures and Cultures
> The University of Edinburgh
> David Hume Tower
> George Square
> Edinburgh EX8 9JX
> UK
>
> tel. +44-(0)131-6511381
> fax: +44- (0)131- 650-3604
> e-mail: Alexandra.Smith at ed.ac.uk
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
> Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From siskron at SFSU.EDU  Wed Apr 16 21:16:29 2008
From: siskron at SFSU.EDU (siskron at SFSU.EDU)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:16:29 -0700
Subject: Poe- 1886 Suvorin's edition
In-Reply-To: <20080415013427.thelh3q8004cwwkc@www.staffmail.ed.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <WED.16.APR.2008.141629.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Thanks again. This is most helpful! KS

Quoting Alexandra Smith <Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK>:

> Dear Katerine,
>
> I've just discovered the edition od Poe's stories published by Suvorin.
> The Suvorin's edition gives the title of Poe's story as Padenie doma
> Ousherov, no name of the translator is mentioned. This edition of Poe's
> stories was published in 1885. The description of it is available here:
> http://www.bibliograph.ru/Biblio/P/Poe/Avtors.html
>
> All best,
> Alexandra Smith
>
> -- 
> The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
> Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From kuzmic at UIUC.EDU  Thu Apr 17 18:22:44 2008
From: kuzmic at UIUC.EDU (kuzmic at UIUC.EDU)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 13:22:44 -0500
Subject: two map questions
Message-ID: <THU.17.APR.2008.132244.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

I have been in search of good maps as well, if those who know of any wouldn't mind replying to the entire list.

Tatiana Kuzmic

---- Original message ----
>Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:47:20 -0400
>From: Anne Lounsbery <anne.lounsbery at NYU.EDU>  
>Subject: [SEELANGS] two map questions  
>To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
>
>Can anyone please tell me 
>
>(1) website(s) for good online political maps of Russia, the more place
>names the better?
>
>(2) a recommendation for a DETAILED political map of Russia, on paper, on
>with lots of place names?  Preferably in Latin letters (it's for student
>use), but Russian would be OK too.
>
>Please reply off-list to anne.lounsbery at nyu.edu.  Thank you!
>
>--Anne
>
>
>
>Anne Lounsbery
>Associate Professor and Director of Graduate Study
>Department of Russian & Slavic Studies
>New York University
>13 University Place, 2nd floor
>New York, NY 10003
> 
>(212) 998-8674
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

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From anne.lounsbery at NYU.EDU  Thu Apr 17 15:47:20 2008
From: anne.lounsbery at NYU.EDU (Anne Lounsbery)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:47:20 -0400
Subject: two map questions
In-Reply-To: <48066C70.7000808@chass.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <THU.17.APR.2008.114720.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Can anyone please tell me 

(1) website(s) for good online political maps of Russia, the more place
names the better?

(2) a recommendation for a DETAILED political map of Russia, on paper, on
with lots of place names?  Preferably in Latin letters (it's for student
use), but Russian would be OK too.

Please reply off-list to anne.lounsbery at nyu.edu.  Thank you!

--Anne



Anne Lounsbery
Associate Professor and Director of Graduate Study
Department of Russian & Slavic Studies
New York University
13 University Place, 2nd floor
New York, NY 10003
 
(212) 998-8674

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From john at RUSLAN.CO.UK  Thu Apr 17 19:53:07 2008
From: john at RUSLAN.CO.UK (John Langran)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 20:53:07 +0100
Subject: two map questions
Message-ID: <THU.17.APR.2008.205307.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

I believe that James Beale at Russia on Line in Washington DC is a bit of an 
expert in this field
www.russia-on-line.com

John Langran
www.ruslan.co.uk


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <kuzmic at UIUC.EDU>
To: <SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 7:22 PM
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] two map questions


>I have been in search of good maps as well, if those who know of any 
>wouldn't mind replying to the entire list.
>
> Tatiana Kuzmic
>
> ---- Original message ----
>>Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:47:20 -0400
>>From: Anne Lounsbery <anne.lounsbery at NYU.EDU>
>>Subject: [SEELANGS] two map questions
>>To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
>>
>>Can anyone please tell me
>>
>>(1) website(s) for good online political maps of Russia, the more place
>>names the better?
>>
>>(2) a recommendation for a DETAILED political map of Russia, on paper, on
>>with lots of place names?  Preferably in Latin letters (it's for student
>>use), but Russian would be OK too.
>>
>>Please reply off-list to anne.lounsbery at nyu.edu.  Thank you!
>>
>>--Anne
>>
>>
>>
>>Anne Lounsbery
>>Associate Professor and Director of Graduate Study
>>Department of Russian & Slavic Studies
>>New York University
>>13 University Place, 2nd floor
>>New York, NY 10003
>>
>>(212) 998-8674
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

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From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM  Thu Apr 17 20:40:29 2008
From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 16:40:29 -0400
Subject: two map questions
In-Reply-To: <003901c8a0a2$521a2390$84271bac@DCXPVCC1>
Message-ID: <THU.17.APR.2008.164029.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Please note the period I've just inserted in the EastView link below. 
Sorry for missing it on the first try.

Anne Lounsbery wrote:

> Can anyone please tell me 
> 
> (1) website(s) for good online political maps of Russia, the more place
> names the better?
> 
> (2) a recommendation for a DETAILED political map of Russia, on paper, on
> with lots of place names?  Preferably in Latin letters (it's for student
> use), but Russian would be OK too.
> 
> Please reply off-list to anne.lounsbery at nyu.edu.  Thank you!

Copying to your private address, but agreeing with Tatiana Kuzmic that a
public posting would help more people.

EastView Cartographic <http://www.cartographic.com/> is excellent, and
not only for the FSU. They can sell you excruciatingly detailed maps
(the old military topo maps) of county-sized areas, as well as
larger-scale political and other maps.

If you're interested only in place names and locations and are not
finicky about fancy colors and shading, you can download excellent
gazetteers in CSV format from the National Geospatial Intelligence
Agency (NIMA, an old acronym retained despite the name change)
<http://earth-info.nima.mil/gns/html/index.html>: click "Country Files"
at left. When importing into MS Access, be sure to click the "Advanced"
button in the first dialog and specify Unicode (UTF-8) as the code page.
This will preserve the Cyrillic versions of the names. Romanizations, of
course, follow the BGN system.

They also let you do online searches, and will be offering more features
shortly.

-- 
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
pbg translations, inc.
"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
http://pbg-translations.com

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From paulr at RUSSIANLIFE.NET  Fri Apr 18 09:36:20 2008
From: paulr at RUSSIANLIFE.NET (Paul Richardson)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 05:36:20 -0400
Subject: Re Map of Russia
In-Reply-To: <SEELANGS%200804180000591097.0055@BAMA.UA.EDU>
Message-ID: <FRI.18.APR.2008.053620.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Funny you should ask...

We have just released the updated, second edition of our Bilingual  
Wall Map of Russia. Available in folded or laminated (ships in tube)  
versions. And it integrates all internal border changes made up  
through March 1, 2008 (consolidating the subjects of the RF to 83).  
Shows all cities with populations 50,000 and above, and many down to  
10,000. Map is entirely based on GIS technology, measures 3x4 feet,  
and is actually two maps in one--all in Russian on one side, all in  
English on the other.

A beautiful map, if we do say so ourselves. Plus we are having a  
special new product promotion: 25% off any orders done online through  
midnight April 18, Eastern time in the US.

http://www.russianlife.com/store/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=150

Paul Richardson
Russian Life magazine


On Apr 18, 2008, at 1:00 AM, SEELANGS automatic digest system wrote:
> There are 4 messages totalling 233 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
>  1. two map questions (4)
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date:    Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:47:20 -0400
> From:    Anne Lounsbery <anne.lounsbery at NYU.EDU>
> Subject: two map questions
>
> Can anyone please tell me
>
> (1) website(s) for good online political maps of Russia, the more  
> place
> names the better?
>
> (2) a recommendation for a DETAILED political map of Russia, on  
> paper, on
> with lots of place names?  Preferably in Latin letters (it's for  
> student
> use), but Russian would be OK too.
>
> Please reply off-list to anne.lounsbery at nyu.edu.  Thank you!
>
> --Anne
>
>
>
> Anne Lounsbery
> Associate Professor and Director of Graduate Study
> Department of Russian & Slavic Studies
> New York University
> 13 University Place, 2nd floor
> New York, NY 10003
>
> (212) 998-8674
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Thu, 17 Apr 2008 13:22:44 -0500
> From:    kuzmic at UIUC.EDU
> Subject: Re: two map questions
>
> I have been in search of good maps as well, if those who know of any  
> wouldn't mind replying to the entire list.
>
> Tatiana Kuzmic
>
> ---- Original message ----
>> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:47:20 -0400
>> From: Anne Lounsbery <anne.lounsbery at NYU.EDU>
>> Subject: [SEELANGS] two map questions
>> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
>>
>> Can anyone please tell me
>>
>> (1) website(s) for good online political maps of Russia, the more  
>> place
>> names the better?
>>
>> (2) a recommendation for a DETAILED political map of Russia, on  
>> paper, on
>> with lots of place names?  Preferably in Latin letters (it's for  
>> student
>> use), but Russian would be OK too.
>>
>> Please reply off-list to anne.lounsbery at nyu.edu.  Thank you!
>>
>> --Anne
>>
>>
>>
>> Anne Lounsbery
>> Associate Professor and Director of Graduate Study
>> Department of Russian & Slavic Studies
>> New York University
>> 13 University Place, 2nd floor
>> New York, NY 10003
>>
>> (212) 998-8674
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your  
>> subscription
>> options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>>                   http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Thu, 17 Apr 2008 20:53:07 +0100
> From:    John Langran <john at RUSLAN.CO.UK>
> Subject: Re: two map questions
>
> I believe that James Beale at Russia on Line in Washington DC is a  
> bit of an
> expert in this field
> www.russia-on-line.com
>
> John Langran
> www.ruslan.co.uk
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <kuzmic at UIUC.EDU>
> To: <SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU>
> Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 7:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] two map questions
>
>
>> I have been in search of good maps as well, if those who know of any
>> wouldn't mind replying to the entire list.
>>
>> Tatiana Kuzmic
>>
>> ---- Original message ----
>>> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:47:20 -0400
>>> From: Anne Lounsbery <anne.lounsbery at NYU.EDU>
>>> Subject: [SEELANGS] two map questions
>>> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
>>>
>>> Can anyone please tell me
>>>
>>> (1) website(s) for good online political maps of Russia, the more  
>>> place
>>> names the better?
>>>
>>> (2) a recommendation for a DETAILED political map of Russia, on  
>>> paper, on
>>> with lots of place names?  Preferably in Latin letters (it's for  
>>> student
>>> use), but Russian would be OK too.
>>>
>>> Please reply off-list to anne.lounsbery at nyu.edu.  Thank you!
>>>
>>> --Anne
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Anne Lounsbery
>>> Associate Professor and Director of Graduate Study
>>> Department of Russian & Slavic Studies
>>> New York University
>>> 13 University Place, 2nd floor
>>> New York, NY 10003
>>>
>>> (212) 998-8674
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your  
>>> subscription
>>> options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface  
>>> at:
>>>                   http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your  
>> subscription
>> options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>>                   http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Thu, 17 Apr 2008 16:40:29 -0400
> From:    "Paul B. Gallagher" <paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM>
> Subject: Re: two map questions
>
> Please note the period I've just inserted in the EastView link below.
> Sorry for missing it on the first try.
>
> Anne Lounsbery wrote:
>
>> Can anyone please tell me
>>
>> (1) website(s) for good online political maps of Russia, the more  
>> place
>> names the better?
>>
>> (2) a recommendation for a DETAILED political map of Russia, on  
>> paper, on
>> with lots of place names?  Preferably in Latin letters (it's for  
>> student
>> use), but Russian would be OK too.
>>
>> Please reply off-list to anne.lounsbery at nyu.edu.  Thank you!
>
> Copying to your private address, but agreeing with Tatiana Kuzmic  
> that a
> public posting would help more people.
>
> EastView Cartographic <http://www.cartographic.com/> is excellent, and
> not only for the FSU. They can sell you excruciatingly detailed maps
> (the old military topo maps) of county-sized areas, as well as
> larger-scale political and other maps.
>
> If you're interested only in place names and locations and are not
> finicky about fancy colors and shading, you can download excellent
> gazetteers in CSV format from the National Geospatial Intelligence
> Agency (NIMA, an old acronym retained despite the name change)
> <http://earth-info.nima.mil/gns/html/index.html>: click "Country  
> Files"
> at left. When importing into MS Access, be sure to click the  
> "Advanced"
> button in the first dialog and specify Unicode (UTF-8) as the code  
> page.
> This will preserve the Cyrillic versions of the names.  
> Romanizations, of
> course, follow the BGN system.
>
> They also let you do online searches, and will be offering more  
> features
> shortly.
>
> -- 
> War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
> --
> Paul B. Gallagher
> pbg translations, inc.
> "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
> http://pbg-translations.com
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of SEELANGS Digest - 16 Apr 2008 to 17 Apr 2008 (#2008-168)
> ***************************************************************
>

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From ingunn.lunde at KRR.UIB.NO  Fri Apr 18 10:20:47 2008
From: ingunn.lunde at KRR.UIB.NO (Ingunn Lunde)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 12:20:47 +0200
Subject: PhD and Postdoctoral positions at the University of Bergen
Message-ID: <FRI.18.APR.2008.122047.0200.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Announcing two fully-funded positions, one Postdoctoral Fellow and one  
PhD student, at the Department of Foreign Languages, University of  
Bergen, Norway.

Application deadline: 15 June, 2008
Starting date: 1 January 2009

Both positions are connected to the research project "The Future of  
Russian: Language Culture in the Era of New  
Technology" (8/2008-7/2012) led by Ingunn Lunde (U of Bergen).

For further details, see below.

/IL


POSTDOCTORAL FELLOW IN RUSSIAN

At the Department of Foreign Languages, University of Bergen, there is  
a vacant three-year position as postdoctoral fellow in Russian  
starting 1 January 2009. The position is connected to the research  
project "The Future of Russian: Language Culture in the Era of New  
Technology" (8/2008–7/2012) led by Professor Ingunn Lunde. We invite  
candidates to propose a research project within one of the three main  
fields of research of the "Future" project: 1. Russian on the  
Internet, 2. The Russian Literary Internet, 3. Linguistic Negotiation  
in the Internet. The project proposal, including a tentative time  
table, must not exceed 5 pages. The application must be written in  
English.

Applicants must have a PhD in Russian or equivalent relevant  
education, or have presented the dissertation for assessment by the  
closing date for applications. Research experience in sociolinguistics  
or literary sociology is an advantage.

For more information about the position and the “Future of Russian”  
project, please contact Professor Ingunn Lunde, Department of Foreign  
Languages, University of Bergen ingunn.lunde at if.uib.no.

An international committee of experts will evaluate the candidates.  
The main emphasis of the evaluation will be placed on the candidate’s  
research experience and potential as evidenced by her or his PhD  
thesis and other scholarly works, project proposal, and other relevant  
qualifications.

The University of Bergen applies the principles of public openness  
when recruiting staff to scientific positions.

Applications, including a complete overview of education and previous  
experience, with copies of diplomas and certificates, scholarly works  
(max 10) and a complete list of publications should be delivered and  
collated in 3 complete sets and sent to the University of Bergen,  
Faculty of Arts, P.O.Box 7805, N-5020 Bergen, Norway, by 15 June 2008.

Reference no.: 08/3888

The full advertisement can be found at http://melding.uib.no/doc/Ledige_stillinger/1208336862.html

-------------------------------

PHD POSITION IN RUSSIAN

At the Department of Foreign Languages, University of Bergen, there is  
a vacant three-year position as research fellow (PhD student) in  
Russian starting 1 January 2009. The position is connected to the  
research project "The Future of Russian: Language Culture in the Era  
of New Technology" (8/2008-7/2012) led by Professor Ingunn Lunde.

Applicants must have an MA degree in Russian or equivalent relevant  
education. Research experience in sociolinguistics or literary  
sociology is an advantage.

The term of the scholarship will be used to complete course work and  
research according to the universitys approved PhD programme, and will  
result in the awarding of a PhD degree, total period of three years.  
PhD students may be given teaching assignments, in which case the  
total period will be extended up to four years. Such tasks will be  
decided upon in the process of  employment.

For more information about the position and the «Future of Russian»  
project, please contact Professor Ingunn Lunde, Department of Foreign  
Languages, ingunn.lunde at if.uib.no , phone +47 55 58 20 17.

An international committee of experts will evaluate the candidates.  
The main emphasis of the evaluation will be placed on the candidates  
research potential as evidenced by her or his MA thesis (or the  
equivalent), other scholarly works (if available), project proposal,  
other relevant qualifications.

The University of Bergen applies the principles of public openness  
when recruiting staff to scientific positions.

The application is to be sent electronically via the link «Apply for  
this position» (see http://www.jobbnorge.no/visstilling2.aspx?stillid=47422&lang=EN) 
  to the University of Bergen. Candidates should propose a research  
project within one of the three main fields of research of the  
«Future» project: 1. Russian on the Internet, 2. The Russian Literary  
Internet, 3. Linguistic Negotiation in the Internet. The application  
must be written in English. Applicants are asked to follow the steps  
as described in the Guidelines for Electronic Applications at the  
Faculty of Humanities:http://www.hf.uib.no/fakultet/adminfo/veiled_stip.html

Reference no.: 2008/5033

The full advertisement can be found at http://www.jobbnorge.no/visstilling2.aspx?stillid=47422&lang=EN



-------------
Ingunn Lunde
Dept of Foreign Languages
University of Bergen
P.O. Box 7805
N-5020 Bergen, Norway
Tel. (+47) 55 58 20 17
Fax: (+47) 55 58 42 60
e-mail: Ingunn.Lunde at if.uib.no
http://www.hf.uib.no/i/russisk/landslide/ingunn.html



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From norafavorov at BELLSOUTH.NET  Fri Apr 18 12:59:48 2008
From: norafavorov at BELLSOUTH.NET (Nora Favorov)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 08:59:48 -0400
Subject: Maps of Russia
In-Reply-To: <SEELANGS%200804180000591097.0055@BAMA.UA.EDU>
Message-ID: <FRI.18.APR.2008.085948.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Anne,
The publishers of Russian Life magazine (i.e., fellow SEELANGS member Paul
Richardson) produce a very nice and detailed map of Russian and have just
come out with an updated version. They even have a "special offer" that ends
today. 
Check out:
http://www.russianlife.com/store/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&produc
t_ID=150

Highly recommended!
Nora Favorov


Date:    Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:47:20 -0400
From:    Anne Lounsbery <anne.lounsbery at NYU.EDU>
Subject: two map questions

Can anyone please tell me 

(1) website(s) for good online political maps of Russia, the more place
names the better?

(2) a recommendation for a DETAILED political map of Russia, on paper, on
with lots of place names?  Preferably in Latin letters (it's for student
use), but Russian would be OK too.

Please reply off-list to anne.lounsbery at nyu.edu.  Thank you!

--Anne



Anne Lounsbery
Associate Professor and Director of Graduate Study
Department of Russian & Slavic Studies
New York University
13 University Place, 2nd floor
New York, NY 10003
 
(212) 998-8674

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


From jobailey at FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU  Fri Apr 18 14:29:18 2008
From: jobailey at FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU (James Bailey)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 09:29:18 -0500
Subject: Question
Message-ID: <FRI.18.APR.2008.092918.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Seelangers,
     Someone has told me that in Moscow you can extend your visa for ten 
days by going to the Consul at Sheremetevo airport.  Has anyone been 
able to do this? Probably better to replay off line.
     Thanks,
     James Bailey

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From rrobin at GWU.EDU  Fri Apr 18 13:25:29 2008
From: rrobin at GWU.EDU (Richard Robin)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 09:25:29 -0400
Subject: Question
In-Reply-To: <4808B03E.9050200@facstaff.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.18.APR.2008.092529.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Please put all replies online! I bet everyone wants to know!

On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 10:29 AM, James Bailey <jobailey at facstaff.wisc.edu>
wrote:

> Seelangers,
>    Someone has told me that in Moscow you can extend your visa for ten
> days by going to the Consul at Sheremetevo airport.  Has anyone been able to
> do this? Probably better to replay off line.
>    Thanks,
>    James Bailey
>
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>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
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>


-- 
Richard M. Robin, Ph.D.
Director Russian Language Program
Technical Adviser, GW Language Сenter
The George Washington University
Washington, DC 20052
202-994-7081
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Russkiy tekst v UTF-8


From jakirby at UIUC.EDU  Fri Apr 18 14:28:17 2008
From: jakirby at UIUC.EDU (Jodi Kirby)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 09:28:17 -0500
Subject: Listserv subscribe
Message-ID: <FRI.18.APR.2008.092817.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Please sign the Russian,East European, and Eurasian Center at the University
of Illinois  up to your listserv, using the following address:
 <mailto:reec at uiuc.edu> reec at uiuc.edu .   

Jodi Kirby
Program Coordinator
Russian, East European, and Eurasian Center
University of Illinois
104 International Studies Building, MC-487
910 South Fifth Street
Champaign, IL 61820
217.333.6022; fax 217.333.1582
jakirby at uiuc.edu
http:// <http:///>  www. reec.uiuc.edu



 

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From jwilson at SRAS.ORG  Fri Apr 18 15:07:46 2008
From: jwilson at SRAS.ORG (Josh Wilson)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 19:07:46 +0400
Subject: Question
In-Reply-To: <005601c8a15b$a06a0e20$0200a8c0@renee>
Message-ID: <FRI.18.APR.2008.190746.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

An online community I frequent discussed this a few months ago. Visa
extensions can be applied in the event of emergencies - as in medical and
legal events that would physically mean that you could not leave the country
by the date your visa expired. 

I don't know how much "flexibility" there may be with the situation, but the
general consensus on the site was that unless you have a doctor's note or
some other documented excuse, the extension could not be had. 

With the tightening of visa rules recently, I doubt the situation has
improved on this. 

(FYI, the community is www.redtape.ru. It's populated in large part by
Westerners who live in or frequent Russia.) 

Best, 


Josh Wilson
Asst. Director
The School of Russian and Asian Studies
Editor-in-Chief
Vestnik, The Journal of Russian and Asian Studies
www.sras.org
jwilson at sras.org


On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 10:29 AM, James Bailey <jobailey at facstaff.wisc.edu>
wrote:

> Seelangers,
>    Someone has told me that in Moscow you can extend your visa for ten
> days by going to the Consul at Sheremetevo airport.  Has anyone been able
to
> do this? Probably better to replay off line.
>    Thanks,
>    James Bailey
>

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From ewb2 at CORNELL.EDU  Fri Apr 18 15:11:15 2008
From: ewb2 at CORNELL.EDU (Wayles Browne)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:11:15 -0400
Subject: Czech dictionary: Excerption slips at the Institute for the Czech
 Language
Message-ID: <FRI.18.APR.2008.111115.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Forwarding at the request of Mr. Oliva. Looks like a wonderful resource.

>Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 15:04:26 +0200 (CEST)
>Subject: Excerption slips at the Institute for the Czech Language
>From: "karel oliva" <oliva at ujc.cas.cz>
>To: ewb2 at cornell.edu
>Cc: pavel.kveton at gmail.com
>Reply-To: oliva at ujc.cas.cz
>X-Original-IP: 147.231.67.10
>X-Original-Hostname: Galaxie.ujc.cas.cz
>
>Dear Sir,
>
>yes, we are proud to announce that the archive of excerption slips of
>Czech lexemes (created between 1906 and 1993, covering sources of cca 1680
>to 1993) has been scanned, identified by headwords and is now available
>over the Internet for anyone interested, free of charge, at the address
>
>http://bara.ujc.cas.cz/psjc
>
>The slips are presented jointly with the dictionary Prirucni slovnik
>jazyka ceskeho (PSJC), created on the basis of the archive.
>
>We shall be happy if you spread the word among your linguistic friends
>inside as well as outside the U.S.
>
>Yours truly
>
>karel oliva
>director
>Institute for the Czech Language
>
>
>>   Many thanks!! So it's now possible to see the cards for the dictionary
>>   at the Ustav pro jazyk cesky? I didn't know.
>>   Yours,
>>   --
>>   Wayles Browne, Assoc. Prof. of Linguistics
>>   Department of Linguistics
>>   Morrill Hall 220, Cornell University
>>   Ithaca, New York 14853, U.S.A.
>>
>>   tel. 607-255-0712 (o), 607-273-3009 (h)
>>   fax 607-255-2044 (write FOR W. BROWNE)
>>   e-mail ewb2 at cornell.edu

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From jakirby at UIUC.EDU  Fri Apr 18 19:59:25 2008
From: jakirby at UIUC.EDU (Jodi Kirby)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 14:59:25 -0500
Subject: REEEC seeking Associate Director
Message-ID: <FRI.18.APR.2008.145925.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Associate Director Opening

The Russian, East European, and Eurasian Center (REEEC) at the University of
Illinois at Urbana-Champaign is seeking qualified candidates for the
position of Associate Director.  REEEC is a Title VI National Resource
Center. The Associate Director assists the Director of REEEC in fulfilling
the mission of the Center and is responsible for setting policy and
implementing procedures for all outreach and teacher education activities.
 
For full description and requirements see
http://www.reec.uiuc.edu/about/job.html
<http://www.reec.uiuc.edu/about/job.html> . 
 
Salary commensurate with qualifications and experience. To apply submit
cover letter, resume, short writing sample, and three letters of reference
to:
        REEEC
        Attention Merrily Shaw
        910 S Fifth St, Rm 104
        Champaign, IL 61820
        Phone: 217-244-4721 or email mshaw2 at uiuc.edu To ensure full
consideration, applications must be received by 15 May 2008. Starting date
is as soon as possible, but no later than 15 August 2008. The University of
Illinois is an Affirmative Action, Equal Opportunity Employer. 



Merrily Shaw
Assistant to the Director
Russian, East European, and Eurasian Center
104 International Studies Building, MC 487 910 S Fifth Street Champaign, IL
61820

Phone: 217.244.4721
Fax: 217.333.1582
E-Mail: mshaw2 at uiuc.edu

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From a.jameson2 at DSL.PIPEX.COM  Fri Apr 18 20:55:35 2008
From: a.jameson2 at DSL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 21:55:35 +0100
Subject: FW: Rodchenko: Revolution in Photography: Hayward Gallery
 Exhibition until 27 April (Review)
Message-ID: <FRI.18.APR.2008.215535.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Subject: Alexander Rodchenko: Revolution in Photography: Peter Campbell on a
new exhibition at the Hayward Gallery (LRB)
    * LRB
    * 24 April 2008
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v30/n08/camp01_.html

At the Hayward
Peter Campbell

When Alexander Rodchenko began taking photographs in 1924 he was in his
early thirties and already known as a painter of severe abstracts and maker
of constructions and photomontages. He produced many of his most memorable
photographs during his first few years with a camera: his wife, Varvara
Stepanova, smiling with a cigarette gripped between her teeth; his mother,
holding folded spectacles up to one eye; and several portraits of
Mayakovsky. (One Mayakovsky must be earlier than others as his head is not
shaved; according to a note about her father by his daughter, Rodchenko
himself started the shaving trend in 1920. Other members of LEF - Left Front
of Art - later followed suit.)

Judging by Alexander Rodchenko: Revolution in Photography, a new exhibition
of his work (at the Hayward Gallery until 27 April), Rodchenko made fewer
memorable pictures of individuals as time went by. Instead, the camera's
ability literally to give a fresh angle on things, the aspect of photography
that he emphasises in a text of 1934 where he looks forward to 'compositions
that surpass the imagination of painters in daring', delighted him. He was
particularly intrigued by views from high up looking down and from low down
looking up. Photographs from 1933 show Georgy Petrusov lying on the ground
to take pictures of his wife; Rodchenko must have been crouching when, in
1930, he made close-up, foreshortened portraits of young Pioneers. In the
repertory of poses photographers have invented or borrowed, heads seen from
below against the sky tend to stand for things like 'hope', 'striving' and
'looking to a new horizon'. Photographs taken from above, on the other hand,
make patterns out of human activity and embed individuals in groups: crowds
weave past each other, bands march, workers eat in the factory kitchen.
Looking up at a modern building or fire escape led the eye towards a distant
vanishing point; hold the camera at an angle and the stolid horizon becomes
an active diagonal.

Newly available miniature cameras encouraged this kind of thing. The Leica
was both a tool and a symbol - it is seen here along with a pen and notebook
on the cover of the magazine Zhurnalist - and in the hands of photographers
it is as significant a professional attribute as the rifles shouldered by
marching soldiers in other photographs. One of Rodchenko's two or three most
famous images is Girl with a Leica of 1934. The photographer's camera has
been tilted so that the bench on which the girl sits runs from corner to
corner. A grille of some sort casts a grid of shadows over her face, her
white dress, the bench and the boardwalk in front of her. In photographs
like this - and in others of architecture, glassware, industrial machinery,
even of gymnasts, swimmers and tall trees - rhythm and symmetry are
abstracted from subject matter. The graphic artist's pursuit of structure is
dominant.

This concentration on pattern-making suggests that the accusation of
'bourgeois formalism' levelled at Rodchenko by those who wanted socially
uplifting imagery was - as far as 'formalism' went - fair enough. In other
countries photographers have angered their contemporaries more often by
pointing their cameras at the wrong people and places than by abstraction.
>From August Sander's portraits of German types, labelled degenerate by the
Nazis, to Robert Frank's photographs of a sadder, rougher USA than the
picture magazines showed, to Richard Avedon's pictures of Westerners who
were odder and stranger physically, and maybe mentally, than local pride
allowed to be possible, and Diane Arbus's freakish finds in the park, the
complaints have been 'too cruel' or 'we' (who 'we' might be is not clear)
'don't look like that'. Rodchenko's situation was such that even had he
wished to uncover the truth about rural poverty, say, or human misery in the
Gulag, it would have been impossible. The closest he came to it was with a
commission to produce a picture story on the making of the White Sea-Baltic
Canal. The photographs he took were edited by the authorities and he wasn't
allowed to take away with him any that hadn't been approved. Once you know
that the crowds of navvies digging and carting clay are made up of forced
labourers and political prisoners, something of the misery of their
situation comes home to you. Rodchenko said that he had 'photographed in a
simple way, not thinking about formalism'.

The results, widely published, were propaganda, but American contemporaries
were making propaganda too - photographs of dams built by the TVA, for
example. Walker Evans's photographs for the Farm Security Administration -
in their way, quite as formal as Rodchenko's - also carried messages that
are now subject to sceptical scrutiny. Rodchenko's work was made with more
editorial oversight than that of his American contemporaries but he had more
control over its presentation than they did. It is in the posters, magazine
and book layouts and covers designed by himself and his wife that his
aesthetic intentions are seen most clearly. These graphic items, exhibited
here along with photomontages from the early 1920s, provide a necessary
context for his photographs.

The exhibition, organised by the Moscow House of Photography Museum, is
particularly well served by the book they have published to accompany it. In
both book and exhibition the photographs are described as 'vintage' -
indicating that they were printed around the time the pictures were taken -
but some illustrations were either made from prints other than those in the
exhibition or are miracles of electronic enhancement. For example, in the
1927 portrait of the poet Nikolai Aseyev the fine detail of cloth and skin
is clearly visible only in the illustration. Portfolios of Rodchenko
photographs printed from the original negatives by his grandson are
available at around £1000 a print; it would have been interesting to see
some of these. When early Modern artefacts that depend on perfect surfaces
for their effect show the effects of time, when the chrome chips, the white
paint yellows and the plywood is scratched, it is poignant in a way the
patination of older things is not. But were Rodchenko working today I
imagine he would have given up scissors and paste and turned to Photoshop.
Although old photographic prints have qualities that cannot be re-created in
new ones (materials change and negatives age), Rodchenko, who incorporated
what are now among his most famous photographs into collaged graphics, would
I think have been happy to have us see them rejuvenated.

Peter Campbell is the London Review's resident designer and art critic.

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From dustin.hosseini at GMAIL.COM  Fri Apr 18 21:12:51 2008
From: dustin.hosseini at GMAIL.COM (Dustin Hosseini)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 16:12:51 -0500
Subject: Question
Message-ID: <FRI.18.APR.2008.161251.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

You would be taking a considerable risk.  

Having recently flown out of Sheremetyevo, I remember that the Visa/Consular
Office was not always open, and in fact, did not have hours posted from what
I remember.

I would advise that you go through a reputable visa agency that could get
the extension for you, without the trouble of having to go all the way out
to the airport and being rejected.  

There is a very reputable agency, called Liga Consultant, which has
regularly assisted foreigners in obtaining visa invitations, registration,
and even extensions.  The contact there is Vadim.  You can find a lot of
good comments about this company and Vadim on Expat.ru and Redtape.ru.  

Their number is +7.499.978.1529.

Good luck,

Dustin

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From dustin.hosseini at GMAIL.COM  Fri Apr 18 21:20:40 2008
From: dustin.hosseini at GMAIL.COM (Dustin Hosseini)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 16:20:40 -0500
Subject: Armenian Genocide and the Jewish Holocaust
Message-ID: <FRI.18.APR.2008.162040.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear all,

I was asked by a student of mine whether the Armenian Genocide is something
that is taught, whether as a part in Russian history programs or otherwise.
 If so, what comparisons are drawn in relation to the Jewish Holocaust, and
other genocides?  

Thank you in advance.

Best,

Dustin Hosseini

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From xmas at UKR.NET  Fri Apr 18 18:21:51 2008
From: xmas at UKR.NET (Maria Dmytrieva)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 21:21:51 +0300
Subject: Question
In-Reply-To: <200804181507.m3IF7eDq004090@alinga.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.18.APR.2008.212151.0300.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Why not, then, go to Ukraine?    
American citizens as well as citizens of the EU countries and Japan don't need any visas to enter Ukraine and to stay there up to half a year or something.    
    
With best regards,    
Maria    
    
--- Оригінальне повідомлення ---    
Від кого: Josh Wilson <jwilson at SRAS.ORG>    
     With the tightening of visa rules recently, I doubt the situation has improved on this.    
     

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From ashot-vardanyan at UIOWA.EDU  Fri Apr 18 22:43:13 2008
From: ashot-vardanyan at UIOWA.EDU (Vardanyan, Ashot)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 17:43:13 -0500
Subject: Armenian Genocide and the Jewish Holocaust
Message-ID: <FRI.18.APR.2008.174313.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Unfortunately, it's just the first genocide in the history. However, there's an absolute fact that Hitler instructed his generals right before the invasion to Poland by saying, "I have issued the command ... that our war aim does not consist in reaching certain lines, but in the physical destruction of the enemy. Accordingly, I have placed my death-head formations in readiness ... with orders to them to send to death mercilessly and without compassion, men, women, and children of Polish derivation and language. Only thus shall we gain the living space ... which we need. Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenian?" I don't think there could a better comparison to any genocide.
 
Ashot Vardanyan,
University of Iowa  



Notice: This UI Health Care e-mail (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  Please reply to the sender that you have received the message in error, then delete it.  Thank you.

________________________________

From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list on behalf of Dustin Hosseini
Sent: Fri 18-Apr-08 16:20
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: [SEELANGS] Armenian Genocide and the Jewish Holocaust



Dear all,

I was asked by a student of mine whether the Armenian Genocide is something
that is taught, whether as a part in Russian history programs or otherwise.
 If so, what comparisons are drawn in relation to the Jewish Holocaust, and
other genocides? 

Thank you in advance.

Best,

Dustin Hosseini

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From sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET  Fri Apr 18 22:49:33 2008
From: sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET (Sarah Hurst)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 14:49:33 -0800
Subject: Armenian Genocide and the Jewish Holocaust
In-Reply-To: <AEECB16E79B57342806128D46AF1687902993721@HC-MAIL10.healthcare.uiowa.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.18.APR.2008.144933.0800.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Not necessarily the first genocide in history, how about these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history

Sarah Hurst


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG. 
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.1/1385 - Release Date: 4/18/2008
9:30 AM
 

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From ashot-vardanyan at UIOWA.EDU  Fri Apr 18 22:59:02 2008
From: ashot-vardanyan at UIOWA.EDU (Vardanyan, Ashot)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 17:59:02 -0500
Subject: Armenian Genocide and the Jewish Holocaust
Message-ID: <FRI.18.APR.2008.175902.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Least of all I wanted to make a boast of that...
 
A.V.


 
Notice: This UI Health Care e-mail (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  Please reply to the sender that you have received the message in error, then delete it.  Thank you.
 
________________________________

From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list on behalf of Sarah Hurst
Sent: Fri 18-Apr-08 17:49
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Armenian Genocide and the Jewish Holocaust



Not necessarily the first genocide in history, how about these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history

Sarah Hurst


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.1/1385 - Release Date: 4/18/2008
9:30 AM


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From dustin.hosseini at GMAIL.COM  Sat Apr 19 10:40:02 2008
From: dustin.hosseini at GMAIL.COM (Dustin Hosseini)
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 05:40:02 -0500
Subject: Question
Message-ID: <SAT.19.APR.2008.054002.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Actually, citizens on Ukraine's visa free regime may stay up to 90 days; this 
applies mainly to tourists.

However, there is word that Ukrainian border guards are turning a blind eye to 
foreigners overstaying that 90 day period.  Of course, it's best to be safe and 
just leave in time without going over the 90 days.

Visas in Ukraine can be obtained by American and Canadian citizens; however, 
there are two downsides.

1) You must either stay in Kiev for a 10 day waiting period;
2) You may 'pay' for Ukrainian registration, which entitles the Russian 
consulate to issue you any kind of visa, but without the 10 day wait; you 
would just pay for the service that you prefer (1 day, 48 hours, etc).
 
British citizens may also obtain a Russian visa in Kiev, but I am unsure of the 
restrictions placed upon them by the consulate.  

If anyone needs more information, please let me know.

Best,

Dustin H.

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From actrmbrs at SBCGLOBAL.NET  Sat Apr 19 20:34:55 2008
From: actrmbrs at SBCGLOBAL.NET (George Morris)
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 15:34:55 -0500
Subject: ACTR H.S. Russian Scholar Laureate Award
Message-ID: <SAT.19.APR.2008.153455.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

REMINDER TO HIGH SCHOOL TEACHERS OF RUSSIAN: the ACTR Russian Scholar
Laureate Award, now in its fourth year, has a deadline of May 1 for 2008
nominations. Each school may nominate ONE sophomore or junior Russian
student at any level for this award. Nomination letter must be on school
stationery and signed by the principal or vice-principal. A color photo
suitable for publication in the ACTR Letter must also be sent by email or by
snail mail. Information required: school name and address, name of
principal, teacher's name, student's name and home mailing and email
addresses (for delivery of awards during the summer only) , his/her gpa,
current grade in Russian, and whether a sophomore or junior. Send to: ACTR
Russian Scholar Laureate, 3109 Yale Blvd., St. Charles, MO 63301-0462 or
<actr-laureate at sbcglobal.net> no later than May 1, 2008. Email the same
address for a PDF file explaining the program and containing a nomination
form. Awardees receive a certificate, lapel pin, and full recognition in the
fall issue of the ACTR Letter. Membership in ACTR is not required to take
advantage of this program.

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From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM  Sun Apr 20 10:33:30 2008
From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler)
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 11:33:30 +0100
Subject: VTEK (����)
Message-ID: <SUN.20.APR.2008.113330.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear all,

This is a sentence from Grossman:
  Ведь  для хронического  больного существуют в городе одни лишь аптеки да
больницы,   диспансеры  да  ВТЭКи.

I have found out that a VTEK is a Vrachebno Trudovaya Ekspertnaya Komissiya,
but what exactly IS such a komissiya?  What is its role?  Is it that of
ascertaining whether someone is fit for work or not?

Bol’shoe spasibo!

R.

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From ajlyon at GMAIL.COM  Sun Apr 20 10:55:37 2008
From: ajlyon at GMAIL.COM (Avram Lyon)
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 14:55:37 +0400
Subject: VTEK (=?UTF-8?Q?=D0=92=D0=A2=D0=AD=D0=9A)?=
In-Reply-To: <C430DA8A.2E07E%kcf19@dial.pipex.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.20.APR.2008.145537.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

2008/4/20 Robert Chandler <kcf19 at dial.pipex.com>:
>  I have found out that a VTEK is a Vrachebno Trudovaya Ekspertnaya Komissiya,
>  but what exactly IS such a komissiya?  What is its role?  Is it that of
>  ascertaining whether someone is fit for work or not?

The komissiya apparently decides whether to classify someone as an
"invalid" and which classification to give (I group, II group). They
exist to this day, and often operate under the auspices of a hospital.
For more information, see
http://newhouse.ru/medicine/illnesses/invalid/order.html .

It's something like a "disability commission".

Avram Lyon

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From mh2623 at COLUMBIA.EDU  Sun Apr 20 22:53:46 2008
From: mh2623 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Maksim Hanukai)
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 17:53:46 -0500
Subject: CFP: Ulbandus 12 - Pushkin
Message-ID: <SUN.20.APR.2008.175346.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

A CALL FOR PAPERS

The 12th edition of Ulbandus, the annual journal of the Columbia Slavic Department, will 
be dedicated to the life and work of Alexander Pushkin. In particular, this issue will be 
framed as a collective investigation into the many sides of Pushkin�s personality, taken in 
the aesthetic and historical contexts of his time.

Which features did Pushkin share with his epoch, and which he did not? What concerned 
him deeply, what failed to arouse his interest, and for what reason? How did his personal 
traits figure into the Romantic �life-creation� he engaged in? How does Pushkin's "life 
creation" process compare to the creative processes of his contemporaries, such as 
Goethe, Chateaubriand, Musset, Byron, and Wordsworth? What was the role played by the 
seclusion and marginality of his formative years?�the role of his poverty, in comparison 
to most if not all of his friends and colleagues?�of his gambling, at the cardgame table 
and with his life?�his relationships with and relation to women (in the context of the 
�Romantic marriage�)? His knowledge, and lack of knowledge, of languages? His 
�smirking loyalties�; his sense of freedom, and the instances when it failed him?

In addition to scholarly articles, Ulbandus encourages submission of original poetry, 
fiction, essays, translations and artwork. Submissions may be in either English or 
Russian. Contributions from outside of the Slavic field are warmly invited. The deadline 
for receipt of submissions is October 31st.
 
Manuscripts should be in MLA format, double-spaced and not exceed 25 pages in length. 
Artwork should be submitted in TIFF format at a resolution of at least 600 dpi. Electronic 
submissions (preferably in Word format) are strongly encouraged and may be sent to: 
ulbandus at columbia.edu. Interested applicants may also submit hard copies of papers to: 
ULBANDUS (attn: Submissions), Columbia University, 1130 Amsterdam Avenue, Mail code 
2839, New York, NY, 10027, USA.
 
For mailed submissions, please include (2) two print copies as well as a copy in rich text 
file on CDR. For further details, see our website at:
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/slavic/etc/pubs/ulbandus/index.html

Ulbandus is a peer-reviewed journal.

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From Subhash.Jaireth at GA.GOV.AU  Sun Apr 20 23:32:11 2008
From: Subhash.Jaireth at GA.GOV.AU (Subhash.Jaireth at GA.GOV.AU)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 09:32:11 +1000
Subject: Tatlin and Picasso [SEC=PERSONAL]
Message-ID: <MON.21.APR.2008.093211.1000.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear All,

 

It seems there is some uncertainty with regard to Tatlin's visit to Picasso
in Paris in 1914. I was wondering if some one on the list can throw some
light on the question and suggest some reading material.

 

Thanks and best wishes

 

Subhash

 

 

 


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From margaret.samu at NYU.EDU  Mon Apr 21 15:35:55 2008
From: margaret.samu at NYU.EDU (Margaret Anne Samu)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:35:55 +0400
Subject: 18th-C Current Bibliography Seeks Slavic Bibliographers and Book
 Review Editors
Message-ID: <MON.21.APR.2008.193555.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Colleagues,
The following message comes from the American Society for Eighteenth-Century Studies.
Please send any correspondence to the addresses that appear at the end of the announcement.
Margaret Samu

==========================================
ECCB Seeks Slavic Bibliographers and Book Review Editors

ECCB: The Eighteenth-Century Current Bibliography is seeking one 
"sub-field editors" to manage the Slavic "literatures and languages" 
areas of our annual bibliographical and review publication. We would 
like to find colleagues who could: (i) assemble an annual list of 
current publications in the
aforementioned specialty areas and (ii) arrange for a reasonable number 
of book or essay reviews.

The ideal candidate would do one area him/herself (such as Russian, 
Polish, or Croatian or ...) and recruit colleagues and/or graduate 
students to do other areas, if possible. We are striving to be more 
inclusive of Slavic literatures and languages, not to do the perfect 
bibliography. Please contribute. Even one or two book review a year will 
be so much better than the current zero.

ECCB editors are assisted in their assignments by bibliographical 
software ("endnote") provided by the publisher. They receive title- or 
colophon-page in each annual volume and are included in editorial and 
press events that occur at eighteenth-century conferences around the 
country. An offering of the AMS Press of New York, a leader in the 
publishing of long-eighteenth-century studies, ECCB is received at 
prestigious academic and research libraries and facilities throughout 
the world. It has been in publication for nearly eighty years and is the 
subject of a web site at <http://eccb.net/>http://eccb.net. Any 
colleague who might be interested in either of the aforementioned 
positions should make contact with ECCB Foreign Languages Field Editor
Waltraud Maierhofer at 
<mailto:waltraud-maierhofer at uiowa.edu>waltraud-maierhofer at uiowa.edu or 
with ECCB Co-General Editor Kevin L. Cope at
<mailto:ENCOPE at LSU.EDU>ENCOPE at LSU.EDU.

======================
Margaret Samu
Ph.D. Candidate in Art History
Institute of Fine Arts, New York University
2007-2008 Fulbright Fellow to Russia
St Petersburg home phone: 7 (812) 328-39-66
Mobile phone: 7 (905) 285-03-52

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From Philippe.FRISON at COE.INT  Tue Apr 22 08:18:25 2008
From: Philippe.FRISON at COE.INT (FRISON Philippe)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 10:18:25 +0200
Subject: Kozlevichi
In-Reply-To: A<B1D980A214D4C54A907AF9481C5D95FE8D362C@UAEXCH.univ.albany.edu>
Message-ID: <TUE.22.APR.2008.101825.0200.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

I found on a site (http://www.centrasia.ru/news.php?st=1208679300) devoted to information on Central Asia the word "Kozlevichi", which seems to be rather widely used in Russian (cite quote underneath).

Where does this word come from and what does it mean exactly ?

"На общих собраниях церкви местных Козлевичей присутствовало от 400 до 500 человек. Охмуреж проводился в основном опытными спецами" (Na obshschikh sobraniyakh tserkvi mestnykh Kozlevichey prisutstvovalo ot 400 do 500 chelovek. Okhmurezh provodilsya v osnovnom opytnymi spetsami".

Thank you in advance for any clue.

Philippe Frison
(Strasbourg, France) 

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From tbuzina at YANDEX.RU  Tue Apr 22 09:22:56 2008
From: tbuzina at YANDEX.RU (Tatyana Buzina)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 13:22:56 +0400
Subject: Kozlevichi
In-Reply-To: 9140000000102941387
Message-ID: <TUE.22.APR.2008.132256.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

This is a reference to, and an almost direct quote from The Golden Calf by Ilf and Petrov where Kozlevich, the owner and driver of the Antilopa Gnu vehicle fell under the sway of two Catholic priests, Moroshek and Kushakovsky. Going to extricate Kozlevich from the priests, Ostap Bender comes to the Catholic church and hears music. 
Okhmuriaiut, he exclaims. Samy okhmurezh idet, pod sladkii lepet mandoliny.
(I am quoting from memory). 
Needless to say, Ostap eventually wins Kozlevich back to his own cause.
Regards,
Tatyana

22.04.08, 12:18, "FRISON Philippe" <Philippe.FRISON at COE.INT>:

> I found on a site (http://www.centrasia.ru/news.php?st=1208679300) devoted to information on Central Asia the word "Kozlevichi", which seems to be rather widely used in Russian (cite quote underneath).
> Where does this word come from and what does it mean exactly ?
> "На общих собраниях церкви местных Козлевичей присутствовало от 400 до 500 человек. Охмуреж проводился в основном опытными спецами" (Na obshschikh sobraniyakh tserkvi mestnykh Kozlevichey prisutstvovalo ot 400 do 500 chelovek. Okhmurezh provodilsya v osnovnom opytnymi spetsami".
> Thank you in advance for any clue.
> Philippe Frison
> (Strasbourg, France) 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------

--
Много спама? Пользуйтесь Яндекс.Почтой http://mail.yandex.ru/nospam 

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From meersono at GEORGETOWN.EDU  Tue Apr 22 12:11:36 2008
From: meersono at GEORGETOWN.EDU (Olga Meerson)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 08:11:36 -0400
Subject: Kozlevichi
Message-ID: <TUE.22.APR.2008.081136.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

There is a chapter subtitle there "Kozlevicha oxmutiaiut ksendzy". Again, quoting from memory; sorry for any discrepancies.
o.m.

----- Original Message -----
From: Tatyana Buzina <tbuzina at YANDEX.RU>
Date: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 5:22 am
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Kozlevichi

> This is a reference to, and an almost direct quote from The Golden 
> Calf by Ilf and Petrov where Kozlevich, the owner and driver of the 
> Antilopa Gnu vehicle fell under the sway of two Catholic priests, 
> Moroshek and Kushakovsky. Going to extricate Kozlevich from the 
> priests, Ostap Bender comes to the Catholic church and hears music. 
> Okhmuriaiut, he exclaims. Samy okhmurezh idet, pod sladkii lepet 
> mandoliny.(I am quoting from memory). 
> Needless to say, Ostap eventually wins Kozlevich back to his own 
> cause.Regards,
> Tatyana
> 
> 22.04.08, 12:18, "FRISON Philippe" <Philippe.FRISON at COE.INT>:
> 
> > I found on a site 
> (http://www.centrasia.ru/news.php?st=1208679300) devoted to 
> information on Central Asia the word "Kozlevichi", which seems to 
> be rather widely used in Russian (cite quote underneath).
> > Where does this word come from and what does it mean exactly ?
> > "?? ????? ????????? ?????? ??????? ?????????? ?????????????? ?? 
> 400 ?? 500 ???????. ??????? ?????????? ? ???????? ???????? ???????" 
> (Na obshschikh sobraniyakh tserkvi mestnykh Kozlevichey 
> prisutstvovalo ot 400 do 500 chelovek. Okhmurezh provodilsya v 
> osnovnom opytnymi spetsami".
> > Thank you in advance for any clue.
> > Philippe Frison
> > (Strasbourg, France) 
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
> >  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your 
> subscription>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS 
> Web Interface at:
> >                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
> 
> --
> ????? ?????? ??????????? ??????.?????? http://mail.yandex.ru/nospam 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your 
> subscription  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS 
> Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> 
> 

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From Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK  Tue Apr 22 20:37:53 2008
From: Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK (Alexandra Smith)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 21:37:53 +0100
Subject: CALL FOR PAPERS--RUSSIA'S MUSICAL REVOLUTIONARIES
Message-ID: <TUE.22.APR.2008.213753.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

British Association for Slavonic and East European Studies (BASEES)

Russian and East European Music Study Group

CALL FOR PAPERS

RUSSIA'S MUSICAL REVOLUTIONARIES

One-Day Conference, to be held at the Faculty of Music, St. Aldates,
Oxford, on Wednesday 1 October 2008, in association with the Oxford
University Faculty of Music, the Bate Collection, and the European
Humanities Research Centre

The 2008 conference will be held in memory of Neil Edmunds (1966-2008),
author of The Soviet Proletarian Music Movement (Bern/New York/Oxford:
Peter Lang, 2000) and editor of Soviet Music and Society under Lenin and
Stalin.The Baton and Sickle (London/New York: RoutledgeCurzon: 2004)

Keynote speaker: theremin virtuoso and composer Lydia Kavina, who will give
a demonstration of the revolutionary electronic instrument invented by her
great-uncle Lev Termen in 1920.  As well as discussing the history of the
theremin, she will also discuss the political biography of its creator.
The conference will be followed by a ?Hands On, Hands Off? workshop at the
Bate Collection, in which participants will be invited to try out for
themselves different models of the theremin.  The day?s activities will
conclude with an evening theremin recital by Lydia Kavina at the Holywell
Music Room.

Proposals are invited for papers to be presented at the conference on the
work of such figures as Theremin, Obukhov, Schillinger, Gurdjieff,
Kandinsky, Kublin, Scriabin, Matiushin, Avraamov, Foregger, Radlov,
Roslavets, Mosolov, Barnoff-Rossine, Golyshef, and Lourie.

Please submit proposed title plus brief abstract by 30 May 2008 to
rosamund.bartlett at ehrc.ox.ac.uk  to whom any enquiries may also be
addressed.

Pauline Fairclough and Rosamund Bartlett

Convenors, BASEES Russian and East European Music Study Group



www.basees.org.uk/sgreem.shtml

http://www.bate.ox.ac.uk/

http://www.music.ox.ac.uk/

http://www.ehrc.ox.ac.uk/index.htm




==========================================
Alexandra Smith (PhD, University of London)
Reader in Russian
Department of European Languages and Cultures
School of  Languages, Literatures and Cultures
The University of Edinburgh
David Hume Tower
George Square
Edinburgh EX8 9JX
UK

tel. +44-(0)131-6511381
fax: +44- (0)131- 650-3604
e-mail: Alexandra.Smith at ed.ac.uk





-- 
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.

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From Poole at AMERICANCOUNCILS.ORG  Tue Apr 22 20:50:00 2008
From: Poole at AMERICANCOUNCILS.ORG (Kitt Poole)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 16:50:00 -0400
Subject: Vacancy for Country Director, Russia, based in Moscow
Message-ID: <TUE.22.APR.2008.165000.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

 
Country Director, Russian Federation
Position Description
 

Summary:

The Country Director provides overall administrative and programmatic
direction for all American Councils activities and operations in the
Russian Federation.  In addition to overseeing and directing American
Councils activities throughout the Russian Federation in conjunction
with respective Office Directors, the Country Director oversees and
provides on-site academic monitoring of American Councils' academic
programs for Americans, periodic evaluation of teaching effectiveness
and program design; supervises and exercises administrative oversight of
personnel in the country; consults with Washington-based staff to make
recommendations to the Vice President concerning personnel matters,
adjustment of budgets, and changes in programmatic and administrative
structures.  

 

The Country Director and the Washington-based Vice President in charge
of field operations and managers work collaboratively in the development
of country policies and administrative decisions, including issues
pertaining to the planning of new budgets, innovations in programs and
structures.

 

This position reports to the Washington-based Vice President in charge
of field operations.

 

Primary Responsibilities:

*        Maintains American Councils' organizational relations in the
country with relevant US government offices and institutions (the US
embassy, USAID, and other US government agencies); with national
governments and private institutions (government ministries, agencies,
and offices; national corporations; and American Councils' institutional
partners); in-country offices of American organizations and foundations;
and international and domestic press;

*        Assists with American Councils' internal operations in the
country; assists with the coordination of the activities of expatriate
and foreign national staff.  In conjunction with Human Resources,
advises local Office Directors on American Councils' policies regarding
foreign national employees;

*        Provides supervision of American Councils programs in the
country by advising NIS-based American Councils program staff concerning
academic, operational, and other policy matters as affected by the
region's political, economic and cultural conditions;

*        Communicates regularly, makes recommendations to
Washington-based Vice Presidents, and managers on general program
matters, perceptions of American Councils programs, and the influence of
local conditions on the organization's programs in the country;

*        Works with the Washington-based Vice President for Development
to identify and cultivate philanthropic opportunities for the region;

*        Monitors the American Councils compliance with regional laws
and regulations; advises Vice President in charge of field operations
and Human Resources on these matters;

*        Coordinates the development of new programs and search for new
funding sources for ongoing or prospective projects; assists in
coordinating the work American Councils' offices in the region and works
to further American Councils' mission and objectives there;

*        Assists Office Directors with the coordination of all general
office administrative matters in the region such as negotiating
contracts.

*        Works closely with Program Managers and Grant Accountants to
ensure budgets for the region are developed, monitored, adjusted and
maintained according to government regulations and sound accounting
practices.

 

Qualifications:

*        Fluency in Russian;

*        Graduate degree -- related to region in: economics,
international education or development, history, or related area;

*        Professional-level program management experience;

*        Overseas work/living experience in the region;

*        Demonstrated experience in developing external sources of
funding support;

*        Experience supervising expatriate and foreign national staff;

*        Cross-cultural skills; and 

*        Strong written and oral communication skills (English and
Russian or other appropriate regional languages)

 

TO APPLY:

Send letter/resume and salary requirements to HR Department, American
Councils, 1776 Massachusetts Avenue, Suite 700, Washington, DC  20036.
Fax: 202-572-9095 or 202-833-7523; email: resumes at americancouncils.org .
Affirmative Action / Equal Opportunity Employer.

 

American Councils for International Education: ACTR/ACCELS, an
international not-for-profit organization, believes in the fundamental
role of education in fostering positive change for individuals,
institutions and societies. Building upon over three decades of regional
expertise and development experience, American Councils advances
education and research worldwide through international programs that
provide the global perspective essential for academic and professional
excellence. In collaboration with partners around the world, our
dedicated team of professionals designs and implements innovative and
effective programs responsive to the cultures and needs of the
international communities in which we work.  American Councils employs a
full-time professional staff of over 370, located in forty-seven offices
in forty cities in 15 countries of Eastern Europe and Eurasia.

 

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From brifkin at TEMPLE.EDU  Wed Apr 23 00:33:38 2008
From: brifkin at TEMPLE.EDU (Ben Rifkin)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 20:33:38 -0400
Subject: NECTFL 09
Message-ID: <TUE.22.APR.2008.203338.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Colleagues:

The Northeast Conference on the Teaching of Foreign Languages hosts its
annual conference on language teaching in the spring in New York City.  The
theme of the 2009 Conference is ³Engaging the Community:  The World Is Our
Classroom.²  I encourage Slavists who connect their classes to the community
(e.g., outreach to heritage communities) to consider proposing a panel.  The
deadline to submit a panel proposal is 15 May 2008 for the April 2009
Conference (to be held April 16-18 at the Marriott Marquis in NYC).

You will find more information about the conference and the electronic
proposal form on line at

http://alpha.dickinson.edu/prorg/nectfl/proposalform08a.html

Sincerely,

Ben Rifkin

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From snazarov at UVM.EDU  Wed Apr 23 01:24:54 2008
From: snazarov at UVM.EDU (Susanna Nazarova)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 21:24:54 -0400
Subject: teaching heritage speakers
Message-ID: <TUE.22.APR.2008.212454.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear all,
Question to those teaching heritage speakers: what materilas, texts,  
resources, motivational techniques do you use (and find effective)  
with your students?
Thank you,
Susanna

-- 
Susanna Nazarova
Department of German & Russian
University of Vermont
802-728-4793

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From robertjl at UNIMELB.EDU.AU  Wed Apr 23 02:22:56 2008
From: robertjl at UNIMELB.EDU.AU (Robert Lagerberg)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 12:22:56 +1000
Subject: Brothers K.
Message-ID: <WED.23.APR.2008.122256.1000.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Can anyone parse the following sentence from Brothers Karamazov (Еще одна
погибшая репутация), specifically the two verbal forms which appear to be at
odds with each other?

ими же веси путями спаси их

Алеша прочел с удивлением, прочел два раза, подумал и вдруг тихо, сладко
засмеялся. Он было вздрогнул, смех этот показался ему греховным. Но
мгновение спустя он опять рассмеялся так же тихо и так же счастливо.
Медленно вложил он письмо в конвертик, перекрестился и лег. Смятение души
его вдруг прошло. «Господи, помилуй их всех, давешних, сохрани их,
несчастных и бурных, и направь. У тебя пути: ими же веси путями спаси их. Ты
любовь, ты всем пошлешь и радость!» — бормотал, крестясь, засыпая
безмятежным сном, Алеша.

Thank you

Robert


Dr Robert Lagerberg
Department of German, Russian and Swedish
School of Languages
University of Melbourne
3010
VIC
Australia

www.grs.unimelb.edu.au
robertjl at unimelb.edu.au

Tel.: (03)  8344 5187
Fax: (03) 8344 7821

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From mclellan at PRINCETON.EDU  Wed Apr 23 02:50:02 2008
From: mclellan at PRINCETON.EDU (mclellan at PRINCETON.EDU)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 22:50:02 -0400
Subject: Brothers K.
In-Reply-To: <C434DAA0.192D%robertjl@unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <TUE.22.APR.2008.225002.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

The phrase is not Russian, but Church Slavonic.

имиже (imizhe). here spelled as two words, is the relative  
pronoun, веси (properly вѣси in the orthography in which  
Dostoevsky wrote it) (vesi), from вѣдѣти, "to know," is the  
verb.  "By the ways/paths which Thou knowest, save them."

Frank McLellan

On Apr 22, 2008, at 10:22 PM, Robert Lagerberg wrote:

> Can anyone parse the following sentence from Brothers Karamazov  
> (Еще одна
> погибшая репутация), specifically the two verbal  
> forms which appear to be at
> odds with each other?
>
> ими же веси путями спаси их
>
> Алеша прочел с удивлением, прочел  
> два раза, подумал и вдруг тихо, сладко
> засмеялся. Он было вздрогнул, смех  
> этот показался ему греховным. Но
> мгновение спустя он опять  
> рассмеялся так же тихо и так же  
> счастливо.
> Медленно вложил он письмо в  
> конвертик, перекрестился и лег.  
> Смятение души
> его вдруг прошло. «Господи, помилуй  
> их всех, давешних, сохрани их,
> несчастных и бурных, и направь. У  
> тебя пути: ими же веси путями спаси  
> их. Ты
> любовь, ты всем пошлешь и радость!» —  
> бормотал, крестясь, засыпая
> безмятежным сном, Алеша.
>
> Thank you
>
> Robert
>
>
> Dr Robert Lagerberg
> Department of German, Russian and Swedish
> School of Languages
> University of Melbourne
> 3010
> VIC
> Australia
>
> www.grs.unimelb.edu.au
> robertjl at unimelb.edu.au
>
> Tel.: (03)  8344 5187
> Fax: (03) 8344 7821
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ---
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your  
> subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface  
> at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ---
>

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From zavyalov2000 at YAHOO.COM  Wed Apr 23 04:33:20 2008
From: zavyalov2000 at YAHOO.COM (NOJ)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 21:33:20 -0700
Subject: Nabokov Online Journal (Volume II, 2008)
Message-ID: <TUE.22.APR.2008.213320.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear colleagues,
 
We are happy to announce the publication of the"Nabokov Online Journal" (Volume II, 2008) on 23 April, 2008.
 
The new issue is available at: www.nabokovonline.com 
   
All best,


Yuri Leving,
Editor
Nabokov Online Journal






      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

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From john at RUSLAN.CO.UK  Wed Apr 23 07:12:10 2008
From: john at RUSLAN.CO.UK (John Langran)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 08:12:10 +0100
Subject: teaching heritage speakers
Message-ID: <WED.23.APR.2008.081210.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Please all reply on list. We have a debate in the UK at the moment about the 
lack of such materials.
John Langran
www.ruslan.co.uk


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Susanna Nazarova" <snazarov at UVM.EDU>
To: <SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 2:24 AM
Subject: [SEELANGS] teaching heritage speakers


> Dear all,
> Question to those teaching heritage speakers: what materilas, texts, 
> resources, motivational techniques do you use (and find effective)  with 
> your students?
> Thank you,
> Susanna
>
> -- 
> Susanna Nazarova
> Department of German & Russian
> University of Vermont
> 802-728-4793
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

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From dustin.hosseini at GMAIL.COM  Wed Apr 23 08:13:03 2008
From: dustin.hosseini at GMAIL.COM (Dustin Hosseini)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 03:13:03 -0500
Subject: Citizenship req. Re: Vacancy for Country Director, Russia,
 based in Moscow
Message-ID: <WED.23.APR.2008.031303.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Could you please post for everyone whether U.S. citizenship is required for
this position?  I feel that this is an important question that is not
mentioned nor answered under your requirements.  There are most definitely
many highly qualified people that meet your demands/needs who would not
necessarily have U.S. citizenship.  

Thanks. 

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From hoek at BRILL.NL  Wed Apr 23 12:19:06 2008
From: hoek at BRILL.NL (Anja van Hoek)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 07:19:06 -0500
Subject: New collection Russian Theater in early 20th century
Message-ID: <WED.23.APR.2008.071906.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

New collection

Russian Theater in the early 20th century [http://www.idc.nl/collection.php?
id=543&s=1&sub=1 ]
National Library of Russia (NLR), St. Petersburg

The collection of rare periodicals from the Russian National Library (NLR) offers 
unique material on Russian theater art in the Silver Age. This collection 
reflects a complex panorama of theater life in the main cities and in the 
provinces. Some of the periodicals, including Symbolist journals, also contain 
analytical, often polemic art-related articles and provide valuable information 
on various aspects of the cultural life of Pre-Revolutionary Russia. 

The collection is a part of the new IDC series “Mass culture and Entertainment 
in Russia”. 

For more information please contact marketing at brill.nl 

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From ashot-vardanyan at UIOWA.EDU  Wed Apr 23 16:00:20 2008
From: ashot-vardanyan at UIOWA.EDU (Vardanyan, Ashot)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 11:00:20 -0500
Subject: Citizenship req. Re: Vacancy for Country Director, Russia,
 based in Moscow
Message-ID: <WED.23.APR.2008.110020.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Could you please specify which position we are talking about? I haven't received the initial message.
 
Best,
Ashot Vardanyan



Notice: This UI Health Care e-mail (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  Please reply to the sender that you have received the message in error, then delete it.  Thank you.

________________________________

From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list on behalf of Dustin Hosseini
Sent: Wed 23-Apr-08 03:13
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: [SEELANGS] Citizenship req. Re: Vacancy for Country Director, Russia, based in Moscow



Could you please post for everyone whether U.S. citizenship is required for
this position?  I feel that this is an important question that is not
mentioned nor answered under your requirements.  There are most definitely
many highly qualified people that meet your demands/needs who would not
necessarily have U.S. citizenship. 

Thanks.

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From mdenner at STETSON.EDU  Wed Apr 23 16:51:04 2008
From: mdenner at STETSON.EDU (Michael Denner)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 12:51:04 -0400
Subject: sheet music for �� ������ ������
In-Reply-To: A<AEECB16E79B57342806128D46AF168790299375C@HC-MAIL10.healthcare.uiowa.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.23.APR.2008.125104.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Trying to help out a student... I've looked everywhere using Google, to no avail, but this group has succeeded when I've failed in the past. 

I wonder if this list can help me find the sheet music for the vocal part of Ой цветет калина, (Дунаевского, Исаковского) from Кубанские казаки? If you have it transposed for piano, that'd be great, too. 

Reply off list, please. Thanks. 

~mad
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
   Dr. Michael A. Denner
   Editor, Tolstoy Studies Journal
   Director, University Honors Program

   
   Contact Information:
      Russian Studies Program
      Stetson University
      Campus Box 8361
      DeLand, FL 32720-3756
      386.822.7381 (department)
      386.822.7265 (direct line)
      386.822.7380 (fax)

      google talk michaeladenner
      www.stetson.edu/~mdenner

 

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From ecopeli at GMAIL.COM  Wed Apr 23 18:44:03 2008
From: ecopeli at GMAIL.COM (Erik Copeli)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:44:03 -0500
Subject: sheet mu sic for
 =?KOI8-R?Q?=EF=CA_=C3=D7=C5=D4=C5=D4_=CB=C1=CC=C9=CE=C1?=
In-Reply-To: <D68FFD5C2DF2174E9ACF9A4CA6458D810D6E9D4F@alpha2.ad.stetson.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.23.APR.2008.134403.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

If anyone has the sheet music, I would love to see it too. Thanks.

-Erik

2008/4/23 Michael Denner <mdenner at stetson.edu>:

> Trying to help out a student... I've looked everywhere using Google, to no
> avail, but this group has succeeded when I've failed in the past.
>
> I wonder if this list can help me find the sheet music for the vocal part
> of Ой цветет калина, (Дунаевского, Исаковского) from Кубанские казаки? If
> you have it transposed for piano, that'd be great, too.
>
> Reply off list, please. Thanks.
>
> ~mad
> ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
>   Dr. Michael A. Denner
>   Editor, Tolstoy Studies Journal
>   Director, University Honors Program
>
>
>   Contact Information:
>      Russian Studies Program
>      Stetson University
>      Campus Box 8361
>      DeLand, FL 32720-3756
>      386.822.7381 (department)
>      386.822.7265 (direct line)
>      386.822.7380 (fax)
>
>      google talk michaeladenner
>      www.stetson.edu/~mdenner
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>


From oprokop at TEMPLE.EDU  Wed Apr 23 18:45:25 2008
From: oprokop at TEMPLE.EDU (oprokop at TEMPLE.EDU)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:45:25 -0400
Subject: sheet mu sic for
 =?utf-8?Q?=D0=9E=D0=B9_=D1=86=D0=B2=D0=B5=D1=82=D0=B5=D1=82__=D0=BA=D0=B0=D0=BB=D0=B8=D0=BD=D0=B0?=
Message-ID: <WED.23.APR.2008.144525.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

---- Original message ----
>Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:44:03 -0500
>From: Erik Copeli <ecopeli at GMAIL.COM>  
>Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] sheet mu sic for Ой цветет калина  
>To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
>
>If anyone has the sheet music, I would love to see it too.
Thanks.
>
>-Erik
>
>2008/4/23 Michael Denner <mdenner at stetson.edu>:
>
>> Trying to help out a student... I've looked everywhere
using Google, to no
>> avail, but this group has succeeded when I've failed in the
past.
>>
>> I wonder if this list can help me find the sheet music for
the vocal part
>> of Ой цветет калина, (Дунаевского, Исаковского) from
Кубанские казаки? If
>> you have it transposed for piano, that'd be great, too.
>>
>> Reply off list, please. Thanks.
>>
>> ~mad
>> ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
>>   Dr. Michael A. Denner
>>   Editor, Tolstoy Studies Journal
>>   Director, University Honors Program
>>
>>
>>   Contact Information:
>>      Russian Studies Program
>>      Stetson University
>>      Campus Box 8361
>>      DeLand, FL 32720-3756
>>      386.822.7381 (department)
>>      386.822.7265 (direct line)
>>      386.822.7380 (fax)
>>
>>      google talk michaeladenner
>>      www.stetson.edu/~mdenner
>>
>>
>>
>>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your
subscription
>>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web
Interface at:
>>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
Olia Prokopenko,

Instructor of Russian
Dept. of French, German, Italian, and Slavic 
531 Anderson Hall
Temple University
1114 West Berks Street
Philadelphia, PA 19122

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From Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK  Thu Apr 24 07:46:55 2008
From: Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK (Alexandra Smith)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 08:46:55 +0100
Subject: Tatyana Tolstaya's interview
Message-ID: <THU.24.APR.2008.084655.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear colleagues,

Some of you might be curious to read Tatyana Tolstaya's interview with  
"Moscow News" that she has reproduced yesterday in Livejournal. It  
contains her observations on Russia today, TV censorship, Russian  
writers, etc. The address is:  
http://tanyant.livejournal.com/12292.html#cutid1


All best,
Alexandra




======================================
Alexandra Smith (PhD, University of London)
Reader in Russian
Department of European Languages and Cultures
School of  Languages, Literatures and Cultures
The University of Edinburgh
David Hume Tower
George Square
Edinburgh EX8 9JX
UK

tel. +44-(0)131-6511381
fax: +44- (0)131- 650-3604
e-mail: Alexandra.Smith at ed.ac.uk





-- 
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.

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From beth.holmgren at DUKE.EDU  Thu Apr 24 12:06:07 2008
From: beth.holmgren at DUKE.EDU (Beth Holmgren)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 08:06:07 -0400
Subject: Nominations for Kulczycki Book Prize
Message-ID: <THU.24.APR.2008.080607.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Subject: Biennial Kulczycki Prize in Polish Studies

Biennial Kulczycki Prize in Polish Studies
The Polish Studies Association seeks nominations for its Biennial 
Kulczycki Prize in Polish Studies. The prize is intended to 
recognize outstanding scholarship in a book on Poland or the Poles, 
in the humanities or the social sciences. Additionally, the author 
must be in the early stages of her or his career and this must be 
his or her first authored book. The closing date for nominations is 
June 15, 2008. Nominations are limited to works in English published 
in the two years prior to the closing date (June 15, 2006 to June 
15, 2008). The prize, in the amount of $500, will be awarded at the 
PSA's Business Meeting during the Annual Convention of the American 
Association for the Advancement of Slavic Studies in Philadelphia in 
November, 2008.

A letter of nomination (from the author or from the press), the 
curriculum vitae of the author, and three copies of the work 
nominated should be sent to the Chair of the Prize Committee.
Chair: John Connelly
Department of History
Universty of California, Berkeley
3228 Dwinelle Hall
Berkeley, CA 94720-2550
jfconnel at berkeley.edu

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From senderov at FAS.HARVARD.EDU  Thu Apr 24 17:29:11 2008
From: senderov at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Sasha Senderovich)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 10:29:11 -0700
Subject: questions about travel to Russia for dual citizens of US and
 Russia
Message-ID: <THU.24.APR.2008.102911.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear SEELANGers,
I recall that a few months ago there was a long discussion on this
list-serve about new visa procedures for travel to Russia for the US
citizens. I am wondering if anyone on the list who is a dual citizen of
Russia and the US has any advice on how the procedures work in this case.

* How does it work for the holders of both a US passport and a Russian
passport for foreign travel (zagran-pasport, not an internal passport)? I've
heard stories of people being able to get Russian visas for their US
passports if they wanted to travel as US citizens, but the visa agency I've
contacted explicitly told me that I would need to renounce my Russian
citizenship first if I wanted to travel on a US document. On the other hand,
there are plenty of people who enter Russia with their Russian documents,
and leave the country with their US passports.

* If one does enter Russia with the Russian foreign passport, how does one
go about post-entry procedures, such as registration at the place of
residence? The rules seem to be more or less clear for registering a US
passport with Moscow or Petersburg authorities, but I am wondering how one
would go about registering a Russian foreign passport which doesn't have a
Moscow or Petersburg "propiska."

I am not terribly committed to keeping my Russian passport, but the idea of
having it seems to be appealing as far as it helps to avoid the process of
obtaining visas, etc. I was just curious if anyone has any *recent*
experience with similar circumstances.

Please reply off-list to senderov at fas.harvard.edu (if the issue proves to be
of wider interest to the list, I would be happy to summarize the
responses.)

Thank you for your help,
Sasha Senderovich

----------------------------------------------
Sasha Senderovich
PhD candidate, Harvard Slavic
senderov at fas.harvard.edu

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From mdenner at STETSON.EDU  Thu Apr 24 18:09:38 2008
From: mdenner at STETSON.EDU (Michael Denner)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 14:09:38 -0400
Subject: sheet mu sic for
 =?koi8-r?Q?=EF=CA_=C3=D7=C5=D4=C5_=D4_=CB=C1=CC=C9=CE=C1?=
In-Reply-To: A<f93fff740804231144v61bb508ds37af1ae0e1a60ce@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <THU.24.APR.2008.140938.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Alina found it:
http://www.notomania.ru/download.php?view.196


~mad
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
   Dr. Michael A. Denner
   Editor, Tolstoy Studies Journal
   Director, University Honors Program

   
   Contact Information:
      Russian Studies Program
      Stetson University
      Campus Box 8361
      DeLand, FL 32720-3756
      386.822.7381 (department)
      386.822.7265 (direct line)
      386.822.7380 (fax)

      google talk michaeladenner
      www.stetson.edu/~mdenner


-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Erik Copeli
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 2:44 PM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] sheet mu sic for Ой цветет калина

If anyone has the sheet music, I would love to see it too. Thanks.

-Erik

2008/4/23 Michael Denner <mdenner at stetson.edu>:

> Trying to help out a student... I've looked everywhere using Google, to no
> avail, but this group has succeeded when I've failed in the past.
>
> I wonder if this list can help me find the sheet music for the vocal part
> of Ой цветет калина, (Дунаевского, Исаковского) from Кубанские казаки? If
> you have it transposed for piano, that'd be great, too.
>
> Reply off list, please. Thanks.
>
> ~mad
> ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
>   Dr. Michael A. Denner
>   Editor, Tolstoy Studies Journal
>   Director, University Honors Program
>
>
>   Contact Information:
>      Russian Studies Program
>      Stetson University
>      Campus Box 8361
>      DeLand, FL 32720-3756
>      386.822.7381 (department)
>      386.822.7265 (direct line)
>      386.822.7380 (fax)
>
>      google talk michaeladenner
>      www.stetson.edu/~mdenner
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

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From Marshall at AMERICANCOUNCILS.ORG  Thu Apr 24 18:36:13 2008
From: Marshall at AMERICANCOUNCILS.ORG (Camelot Marshall)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 14:36:13 -0400
Subject: RLJ Call for Papers: "Language Culture in Contemporary Russia"
Message-ID: <THU.24.APR.2008.143613.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Call for Papers

Russian Language Journal will dedicate its 2008 issue (Vol. 58) to the
subject of "Language Culture in Contemporary Russia," and would like to
invite all scholars with related research interests to submit articles
for consideration. 

The period from 1985 to the present day has brought about dramatic
changes in the shape, sound, and structure of Russian, in the role that
language plays in both reflecting and helping to shape public discourse,
and in the attitudes that speakers and writers have toward the Russian
national tongue and language change in general. In an effort to explore
the contours and ramifications of these changes, RLJ welcomes
submissions from colleagues across disciplines on any aspect of the
following issues, so long as they are addressed in the context of
Russian culture and society from 1985-2007: 

*	Descriptive analyses of language change in cultural, social,
and/or political context; 
*	Infusion of foreign loans into contemporary Russian; 
*	Roles of high (e.g., Church) and low (e.g., colloquial,
regional, dialectal, non-standard, vulgar) registers; 
*	The language of politics and/or politics of language; 
*	Attitudes (popular, intellectual, or official) toward language
change; 
*	Creative representations of language change; 
*	The state and fate of the literary language; 
*	Language and/of the mass media, as well as the new media. 

Authors interested in submitting articles for double-blind peer review
should send copies of their completed manuscripts, in English or
Russian, by July 1, 2008. Submission guidelines can be found on this
website in the Policies and Submissions section. Please address any
questions to rlj at actr.org.


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From sbauckus at EARTHLINK.NET  Thu Apr 24 18:43:01 2008
From: sbauckus at EARTHLINK.NET (Susan Bauckus)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 11:43:01 -0700
Subject: Heritage Speakers
Message-ID: <THU.24.APR.2008.114301.0700.SBAUCKUS@EARTHLINK.NET>

Dear Colleagues,

I write in response to Susanna Nazarova's query about heritage speakers and to anyone else in the SEELANGS community who is interested. I work for the UCLA Center for World Languages and the National Heritage Language Resource Center, a joint project of CWL and  the UC Consortium for Language Learning and Teaching. Olga Kagan (UCLA) is NHLRC's director and Kathleen Dillon (UC Davis) is the associate director. NHLRC was established to address the need for heritage language research that can serve as the basis for sound pedagogy. 

Here are a few resources:

1) Russian for Russians (2002, Slavica Publishers), by Olga Kagan, Tatiana Akishina, and Richard Robin, is a textbook written for heritage speakers of Russian. The book has a website housed at George Washington University, at http://www.gwu.edu/~slavic/rdr/

2) The NHLRC website (www.nhlrc.ucla.edu) has a set of resources including a bibliography, guidelines for heritage instruction and curriculum, and presentations given at the 2002 Heritage Language Institute and the 2006 Heritage Language Research Institute. 

3) The Heritage Language Journal (www.heritagelanguages.org) is an on-line academic journal focusing on heritage language knowledge and speakers. HLJ is published by CWL and the UC Consortium. We will publish an issue shortly on Russian as a heritage language, guest edited by David Andrews of Georgetown University, but articles on any language are informative. The Bilingual Research Journal (http://brj.asu.edu/) frequently publishes articles on heritage language as well.

5) some individual works: a) a SEEJ article (Kagan and Dillon) on Russian heritage programs is reprinted in Vol. 1 of the Heritage Language Journal, and the first volume of SEEJ's 50th anniversary issue (Spring, 2006) has an article by the same authors. Joan Chevalier's article about teaching reading to heritage speakers is in Volume 3 of HLJ. b) A 2000 Slavica volume, The Learning and Teaching of Slavic Languages has a chapter on heritage language learning and teaching. The introduction to that chapter is written by Guadalupe Valdés of Stanford University, who is an early researcher of heritage speakers, and it is intended as a general introduction to the field for Slavists. c) Maria Polinsky, a linguist whose research interests include heritage speakers, has a number of her papers on line at: http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~lingdept/f_polinsky.html 
d) the volume Heritage Language Education: A New Field Emerging was published this year and will soon be reprinted in paperback.

6) UCLA's Russian program has an entire heritage track for Russian speakers. Other institutions have separate classes or programs, or have faculty with experience teaching heritage speakers, and I hope they will chime in. 

Incidentally, we are currently trying to find out who in the U.S. teaches heritage speakers and who has heritage-specific classes or programs so if anyone does, I'd love to hear from you. 

Please feel free to contact Dr. Kagan (okagan at humnet.ucla.edu). In addition, I'd like to know which of these suggestions are the most useful to you, if you don't mind telling me. 

Regards,
Susan Bauckus
UCLA Center for World Languages/
National Heritage Language Resource Center



Susan Bauckus
UCLA Center for World Languages
www.international.ucla.edu
Heritage Language Journal
www.heritagelanguages.org
Language Materials Project
www.lmp.ucla.edu
LA Language World
www.lalamag.ucla.edu

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From kar31 at CAM.AC.UK  Thu Apr 24 19:52:46 2008
From: kar31 at CAM.AC.UK (Katherine Roberts)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 14:52:46 -0500
Subject: Cassubian
Message-ID: <THU.24.APR.2008.145246.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Hello,

I am a student of Slavonic Studies at Cambridge University, England, and I 
was wondering if any of you knew of any literature that I could read about 
Cassubian?  I'm interested in the issue of whether it's a dialect of Polish or a 
separate language.

Thanks,

Katy Roberts

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From dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU  Thu Apr 24 20:04:23 2008
From: dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU (Edward M Dumanis)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 16:04:23 -0400
Subject: questions about travel to Russia for dual citizens of US and
 Russia
In-Reply-To: <d93c3530804241029k2d3bd24n1d603640fd0798d9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <THU.24.APR.2008.160423.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Just remember that when you enter Russia on a non-US passport, you deprive 
yourself of any legal protection by US government.

Sincerely,

Edward Dumanis <dumanis at buffalo.edu>

On Thu, 24 Apr 2008, Sasha Senderovich wrote:

> Dear SEELANGers,
> I recall that a few months ago there was a long discussion on this
> list-serve about new visa procedures for travel to Russia for the US
> citizens. I am wondering if anyone on the list who is a dual citizen of
> Russia and the US has any advice on how the procedures work in this case.
>
> * How does it work for the holders of both a US passport and a Russian
> passport for foreign travel (zagran-pasport, not an internal passport)? I've
> heard stories of people being able to get Russian visas for their US
> passports if they wanted to travel as US citizens, but the visa agency I've
> contacted explicitly told me that I would need to renounce my Russian
> citizenship first if I wanted to travel on a US document. On the other hand,
> there are plenty of people who enter Russia with their Russian documents,
> and leave the country with their US passports.
>
> * If one does enter Russia with the Russian foreign passport, how does one
> go about post-entry procedures, such as registration at the place of
> residence? The rules seem to be more or less clear for registering a US
> passport with Moscow or Petersburg authorities, but I am wondering how one
> would go about registering a Russian foreign passport which doesn't have a
> Moscow or Petersburg "propiska."
>
> I am not terribly committed to keeping my Russian passport, but the idea of
> having it seems to be appealing as far as it helps to avoid the process of
> obtaining visas, etc. I was just curious if anyone has any *recent*
> experience with similar circumstances.
>
> Please reply off-list to senderov at fas.harvard.edu (if the issue proves to be
> of wider interest to the list, I would be happy to summarize the
> responses.)
>
> Thank you for your help,
> Sasha Senderovich
>
> ----------------------------------------------
> Sasha Senderovich
> PhD candidate, Harvard Slavic
> senderov at fas.harvard.edu
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>

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From Marshall at AMERICANCOUNCILS.ORG  Thu Apr 24 20:03:13 2008
From: Marshall at AMERICANCOUNCILS.ORG (Camelot Marshall)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 16:03:13 -0400
Subject: Corrected RLJ Call for Papers: "Language Culture in Contemporary
 Russia"
Message-ID: <THU.24.APR.2008.160313.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Call for Papers

Russian Language Journal will dedicate its 2008 issue (Vol. 58) to the
subject of "Language Culture in Contemporary Russia," and would like to
invite all scholars with related research interests to submit articles
for consideration. 

The period from 1985 to the present day has brought about dramatic
changes in the shape, sound, and structure of Russian, in the role that
language plays in both reflecting and helping to shape public discourse,
and in the attitudes that speakers and writers have toward the Russian
national tongue and language change in general. In an effort to explore
the contours and ramifications of these changes, RLJ welcomes
submissions from colleagues across disciplines on any aspect of the
following issues, so long as they are addressed in the context of
Russian culture and society from 1985-2007: 

*	Descriptive analyses of language change in cultural, social,
and/or political context; 
*	Infusion of foreign loans into contemporary Russian; 
*	Roles of high (e.g., Church) and low (e.g., colloquial,
regional, dialectal, non-standard, vulgar) registers; 
*	The language of politics and/or politics of language; 
*	Attitudes (popular, intellectual, or official) toward language
change; 
*	Creative representations of language change; 
*	The state and fate of the literary language; 
*	Language and/of the mass media, as well as the new media. 

Authors interested in submitting articles for double-blind peer review
should send copies of their completed manuscripts, in English or
Russian, by July 1, 2008. Submission guidelines can be found on this
website (http://www.russnet.org/rlj/) in the Policies and Submissions
section. Please address any questions to rlj at actr.org.


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From avidan at FAS.HARVARD.EDU  Thu Apr 24 21:50:39 2008
From: avidan at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Aida Vidan)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 17:50:39 -0400
Subject: conference on oral traditional poetry--deadline reminder
Message-ID: <THU.24.APR.2008.175039.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

This is a reminder about the upcoming deadline for participation at the
conference "Return of the Song: The Milman Parry Collection and Its Reception in
the World" to be held in Tuzla, Bosnia and Herzegovina, July 3-6, 2008.

Conference website:
http://chs.harvard.edu/chs/return_of_the_song_povratak_pjesme

Application deadline: May 1st, 2008.

To apply contact avidan at fas.harvard.edu

Organized by School of Humanities, University of Tuzla, Bosnia and Herzegovina;
The Milman Parry Collection of Oral Literature, Harvard University; and Public
and University Library Tuzla

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From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM  Thu Apr 24 22:35:30 2008
From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:35:30 -0400
Subject: Cassubian
In-Reply-To: <LISTSERV%200804241452468257.0DA3@BAMA.UA.EDU>
Message-ID: <THU.24.APR.2008.183530.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Katherine Roberts wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I am a student of Slavonic Studies at Cambridge University, England,
> and I was wondering if any of you knew of any literature that I could
> read about Cassubian?  I'm interested in the issue of whether it's a
> dialect of Polish or a separate language.

It's far more commonly spelled "Kashubian" (683,000 vs. 5,850 hits on 
Google); you'll have better luck researching if you look for that spelling.

Quick overview here with several good links at the bottom:
<http://www.omniglot.com/writing/kashubian.htm>

Kashubian version of wikipedia:
<http://csb.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prz%C3%A9dn%C3%B4_starna>

Short overview of early Kashubian linguistics and dialectology (careful, 
long URL!):
<http://books.google.com/books?id=CTtT7-JTwioC&pg=PA129&lpg=PA129&dq=kashubian+slovincian+polish+history&source=web&ots=jZ0NQ0SBdv&sig=dp33QxsTUXXAuROL23n3Zvq0mYk&hl=en#PPA130,M1>

Title page of above work:
<http://books.google.com/books?id=CTtT7-JTwioC&printsec=titlepage&dq=kashubian+slovincian+polish+history&source=gbs_toc_s&cad=1>

-- 
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
pbg translations, inc.
"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
http://pbg-translations.com

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From a9606646 at UNET.UNIVIE.AC.AT  Fri Apr 25 05:43:05 2008
From: a9606646 at UNET.UNIVIE.AC.AT (Alexander Sitzmann)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 07:43:05 +0200
Subject: Cassubian
In-Reply-To: <LISTSERV%200804241452468257.0DA3@BAMA.UA.EDU>
Message-ID: <FRI.25.APR.2008.074305.0200.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Breza, Edward: Das Kaschubische. In: Peter Rehder (ed.), Einführung in die
slawischen Sprachen, Darmstadt 1998, pp. 171-177.

Breza, Edward: Merkmale der kaschubischen Literatursprache. In:
Sysak/Wicherkiewicz (eds.), Language minorities and minority languages in
the changing Europe, Gdan'sk 1997, pp. 323-327.

Lubas´, Wl*adysl*aw: Kaschubisch. In: Milos* Okuka, Lexikon der Sprachen
des europäischen Ostens (= WEEO 10), Klagenfurt 2002, pp. 265-273.

Popowska-Taborska, H.: Kaszubszczyna, Zarsy dziejów, Warszawa 1980.

Topolin´ska, Z.: A historical phonology of the Kashubian dialects of
Polish, The Hague/Paris 1974.

and many more ...

Regards,
Alexander Sitzmann

Inst. f. Europäische und Vergleichende
Sprach- und Literaturwissenschaft
Universität Wien
Dr. Karl Lueger-Ring 1
1010 Wien




On Do, 24.04.2008, 21:52, Katherine Roberts wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am a student of Slavonic Studies at Cambridge University, England, and I
> was wondering if any of you knew of any literature that I could read about
> Cassubian?  I'm interested in the issue of whether it's a dialect of
> Polish or a
> separate language.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Katy Roberts
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

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From resco at UMICH.EDU  Fri Apr 25 11:47:28 2008
From: resco at UMICH.EDU (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Alina_Makin?=)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 06:47:28 -0500
Subject: questions about travel to Russia for dual citizens of US and
 Russia
Message-ID: <FRI.25.APR.2008.064728.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

I am a dual citizen and have been going to Russia on my US passport for 
almost 10 years now.  The rules have changed slightly -- you now have to ask 
MID for the permission to enter Russia on a different passport and it costs you 
$30 to do so.  

I have been working with UNISEL visa agency in New York that gets you that 
permission, invitation, visa and your registration quickly and efficiently.  Yes, 
they even provide you with a registration/migration card before you leave. 
There's never been a glitch in my paperwork and I highly recommend them.  
They do charge money for their services but since it removes all the headache 
of dealing with the Russian consulate/OVIR|/border patrol and other kinds of 
fabulous Russian bureaucracy, I think it's worth every penny.

UNISEL's phone number is 212-921-2900 or 1-800-531-2060.  The person to 
talk to is Ilya.  He will explain everything to you and will answer any other 
questions you may have.

Good luck with your trip.

Alina Makin,
The University of Michigan,
Ann Arbor, MI US

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From gbpeirce at PITT.EDU  Fri Apr 25 13:02:18 2008
From: gbpeirce at PITT.EDU (Peirce, Gina M)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:02:18 -0400
Subject: Classes for heritage speakers
Message-ID: <FRI.25.APR.2008.090218.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

In response to Susan Bauckus's inquiry about classes for Russian heritage speakers in the US, the University of Pittsburgh's Summer Language Institute offered an intensive course for such speakers for the past three years, which included five weeks in Pittsburgh followed by five weeks in Moscow. Each student wrote a research paper in his/her own academic field, using source materials in Russian. This fall, an academic year language course for Russian heritage speakers will be introduced by the Pitt Slavic Department.

*************************************
Gina M. Peirce
Assistant Director
Center for Russian and East European Studies
University of Pittsburgh
4414 Posvar Hall
Pittsburgh, PA 15260
Phone: (412) 648-2290
Fax: (412) 648-7002

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From rar at SLAVIC.UMASS.EDU  Fri Apr 25 14:29:27 2008
From: rar at SLAVIC.UMASS.EDU (Robert A. Rothstein)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:29:27 -0400
Subject: sheet mu sic for
 =?KOI8-R?Q?=EF=CA_=C3=D7=C5=D4_=C5=D4_=CB=C1=CC=C9=CE=C1?=
In-Reply-To: <f93fff740804231144v61bb508ds37af1ae0e1a60ce@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.25.APR.2008.102927.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Erik Copeli wrote:
> If anyone has the sheet music, I would love to see it too. Thanks.
>   
I printed out a copy of the music with guitar chords and lyrics for 
Michael Denner. If you'd like a copy, send me your mailing address.
  Bob Rothstein

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From Poole at AMERICANCOUNCILS.ORG  Fri Apr 25 15:46:33 2008
From: Poole at AMERICANCOUNCILS.ORG (Kitt Poole)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:46:33 -0400
Subject: Citizenship req. Re: Vacancy for Country Director, Russia,
 based in Moscow
Message-ID: <FRI.25.APR.2008.114633.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

To potential applicant for the Country Director position in Moscow, here
are our requirements:

There is no nationality requirement, per se.  However, it is important
that a candidate have significant first-hand experience with the U.S.
educational system (both on the  secondary and post-secondary levels)
given the nature of much of American Councils activity there. 

I hope this is helpful!  We look forward to receiving your resumes!
-Kitt Poole
Director, Human Resources
American Councils for International Education
1776 Massachusetts Avenue, NW, Suite 700
Washington, DC 20036
(202) 785-0662 (p)
(202) 572-9095 (f)
poole at americancouncils.org
www.americancouncils.org 

-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
[mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Vardanyan, Ashot
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 12:00 PM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Citizenship req. Re: Vacancy for Country
Director, Russia, based in Moscow

Could you please specify which position we are talking about? I haven't
received the initial message.
 
Best,
Ashot Vardanyan



Notice: This UI Health Care e-mail (including attachments) is covered by
the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is
confidential and may be legally privileged.  If you are not the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination,
distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
Please reply to the sender that you have received the message in error,
then delete it.  Thank you.

________________________________

From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list on
behalf of Dustin Hosseini
Sent: Wed 23-Apr-08 03:13
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: [SEELANGS] Citizenship req. Re: Vacancy for Country Director,
Russia, based in Moscow



Could you please post for everyone whether U.S. citizenship is required
for this position?  I feel that this is an important question that is
not mentioned nor answered under your requirements.  There are most
definitely many highly qualified people that meet your demands/needs who
would not necessarily have U.S. citizenship. 

Thanks.

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From renee at ALINGA.COM  Fri Apr 25 16:03:03 2008
From: renee at ALINGA.COM (Renee Stillings)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:03:03 -0700
Subject: questions about travel to Russia for dual citizens of US and
 Russia
In-Reply-To: <LISTSERV%200804250647289367.04D8@BAMA.UA.EDU>
Message-ID: <FRI.25.APR.2008.090303.0700.>

This is very interesting. As a result I assume you get a visa in your
passport just like any other foreigner? What types of visas (business,
tourist, student) have you done in this manner?

This is a particularly interesting issue for heritage speakers because of
some complications of enrolling in Russian universities for short-term
studies due to their citizenship. In other words, their position is that you
need to be enrolled based on your student visa - and not your passport. 

Renee

-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list 

I am a dual citizen and have been going to Russia on my US passport for 
almost 10 years now.  The rules have changed slightly -- you now have to ask

MID for the permission to enter Russia on a different passport and it costs
you 
$30 to do so.  

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From skrive at GMAIL.COM  Fri Apr 25 17:06:54 2008
From: skrive at GMAIL.COM (Sarah Krive)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:06:54 -0400
Subject: student query about Rasputin
Message-ID: <FRI.25.APR.2008.130654.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear SEELANGers,

I post this question on behalf of a student.  If you have any leads,
please reply directly to the student, Steven Stiles.  Thanks!

--

I was doing some independent research and came across an icon of
Rasputin and was wondering if you knew anything about the group
that was trying to saint him.  I find the fact that someone would
saint him and start
producing icons of him interesting.

Thanks
Steven
smstiles at uncg.edu


-- --
Sarah A. Krive, Ph.D.
Assistant Director
Lloyd International Honors College
University of North Carolina at Greensboro
PO Box 26170
Greensboro, NC 27402-6170

(336) 334-4734 (office)

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From irinadubinina at YAHOO.COM  Fri Apr 25 17:18:15 2008
From: irinadubinina at YAHOO.COM (Irina Dubinina)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:18:15 -0700
Subject: questions about travel to Russia for dual citizens of US and
 Russia
In-Reply-To: <054601c8a6ed$d8cd1cc0$0200a8c0@renee>
Message-ID: <FRI.25.APR.2008.101815.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

I am very glad that Renee mentioned heritage speakers. I am often asked by my heritage students who want to travel to Russia if they would have problems not just entering, but also living there.  This especially concerns men.
    
  If they immigrated in early 90s, they were already citizens of the Russian Federation (not the USSR).  As far as I understand, immigrating to a foreign country did not automatically mean a loss of Russian citizenship (unlike how it was in the USSR).   If a young man who is an American citizen and who is now 20 or 21 decides to go to Russia, is he still considered to be a Russian citizen? (because he has never renounced his Russian citizenship).  My understanding (which could be entirely wrong) is that one must renounce the Russian citizenship in order to be able to receive Russian visas.  Otherwise, the Russian government treats a person as its citizen and will not allow a visa issued (visas are reserved for foreign nationals only).   The answer to the question "are they still considered to be Russian citizens" affects not only a young man's visa, but also his legal obligation to serve in the Russian army.    And that is the question that worries all of my male heritage
 students and their parents.  I refer them to the Russian consulate, but as we all know this agency does not give out information easily -- especially on such complicated matters.  Plus many of the immigrants have this deep-rooted fear of dealing directly with consulates/embassies and don't want to risk asking the question.
   
  Can anybody clarify this situation?  I will be very grateful (and so will many of my students)!
  Best wishes,
  Irina Dubinina
  Lecturer in Russian/Director of Russian Language Program
Dept. of German, Russian and Asian Languages & Literature

Renee Stillings <renee at ALINGA.COM> wrote:
  This is very interesting. As a result I assume you get a visa in your
passport just like any other foreigner? What types of visas (business,
tourist, student) have you done in this manner?

This is a particularly interesting issue for heritage speakers because of
some complications of enrolling in Russian universities for short-term
studies due to their citizenship. In other words, their position is that you
need to be enrolled based on your student visa - and not your passport. 

Renee

-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list 

I am a dual citizen and have been going to Russia on my US passport for 
almost 10 years now. The rules have changed slightly -- you now have to ask

MID for the permission to enter Russia on a different passport and it costs
you 
$30 to do so. 

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---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.

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From renee at ALINGA.COM  Fri Apr 25 17:52:35 2008
From: renee at ALINGA.COM (Renee Stillings)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:52:35 -0700
Subject: questions about travel to Russia for dual citizens of US and
 Russia
In-Reply-To: <170593.85001.qm@web53508.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.25.APR.2008.105235.0700.>

This is my understanding as well. I did speak with the Russian Embassy on
this subject a few years ago and they did confirm that one must actively
renounce citizenship, a process than can take 6 months. Further, many young
people are entirely unaware that they still have Russian citizenship as they
may have never obtained their own passport.

I am not sure of the implications concerning the Russian army. I suppose it
boils down to the technical answer (can they be recruited) and regardless of
that technical answer, the likelihood of anything really happening during a
short trip (whether as a tourist, student, or visiting family). I would
consider it more of an issue for someone going long term to work in Russia. 

For young people, they probably need to weigh the advantages and
disadvantages of keeping the Russian citizenship. I tend to doubt many of
them keep it for nostalgic reasons (considering their age); probably it is
simply to visit the grandparents. However, with the growing Russian economy
(and not exactly stellar opportunities here at home right now), that Russian
passport could come in handy professionally, just as there is value for many
in having a EU passport. This year the Russian migration authorities did
fill the work permit quotas and actually until a review this summer to see
who didn't use their quotas, no more are being issued until next year. If
this trend continues, there may well be a good reason to keep that Russian
passport - again, if it can be clarified whether there really is any
conscription risk.

-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list 

My understanding (which could be entirely wrong) is that one must renounce
the Russian citizenship in order to be able to receive Russian visas.
Otherwise, the Russian government treats a person as its citizen and will
not allow a visa issued (visas are reserved for foreign nationals only).
The answer to the question "are they still considered to be Russian
citizens" affects not only a young man's visa, but also his legal obligation
to serve in the Russian army.    And that is the question that worries all
of my male heritage
 students and their parents.  I refer them to the Russian consulate, but as
we all know this agency does not give out information easily -- especially
on such complicated matters.  Plus many of the immigrants have this
deep-rooted fear of dealing directly with consulates/embassies and don't
want to risk asking the question.
   
--------------------------------

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From brooksjef at GMAIL.COM  Fri Apr 25 18:39:13 2008
From: brooksjef at GMAIL.COM (jeff brooks)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 14:39:13 -0400
Subject: student query about Rasputin
In-Reply-To: <4f10f5ef0804251006w52a05abdr3f08ef58297db1eb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.25.APR.2008.143913.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

You might write to , "Kristen Regina" <kregina at hillwoodmuseum.org>, and
"Wendy Salmond" <wendy.salmond at gmail.com>, who know about late imperial
Russian icons.

jeff brooks

On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 1:06 PM, Sarah Krive <skrive at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear SEELANGers,
>
> I post this question on behalf of a student.  If you have any leads,
> please reply directly to the student, Steven Stiles.  Thanks!
>
> --
>
> I was doing some independent research and came across an icon of
> Rasputin and was wondering if you knew anything about the group
> that was trying to saint him.  I find the fact that someone would
> saint him and start
> producing icons of him interesting.
>
> Thanks
> Steven
> smstiles at uncg.edu
>
>
> -- --
> Sarah A. Krive, Ph.D.
> Assistant Director
> Lloyd International Honors College
> University of North Carolina at Greensboro
> PO Box 26170
> Greensboro, NC 27402-6170
>
> (336) 334-4734 (office)
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

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From beth.holmgren at DUKE.EDU  Fri Apr 25 20:43:47 2008
From: beth.holmgren at DUKE.EDU (Beth Holmgren)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 16:43:47 -0400
Subject: query about Andrzej Munk's ZEZOWATE SZCZESCIE
Message-ID: <FRI.25.APR.2008.164347.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Does anyone know where I might purchase a DVD of Andrzej Munk's
ZEZOWATE SZCZESCIE (1960) with English subtitles?  I'd like to use it
for a class.

Pls reply to me offlist at beth.holmgren at duke.edu

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From resco at UMICH.EDU  Sat Apr 26 12:21:55 2008
From: resco at UMICH.EDU (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Alina_Makin?=)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 07:21:55 -0500
Subject: questions about travel to Russia for dual citizens of US and
 Russia
Message-ID: <SAT.26.APR.2008.072155.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

You don't HAVE TO do this if you have 2 passports.  You can just travel to 
Russia on your Russian passport without a visa.  Just show your Russian 
passport when entering the country and US when leaving.  But if you prefer to 
enter Russia on your American passport, then you have to get that MID 
permission and a visa (tourist, business, education, etc.).

Alina Makin
The University of Michigan,
Ann Arbor MI US

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From beth.holmgren at DUKE.EDU  Sat Apr 26 15:06:54 2008
From: beth.holmgren at DUKE.EDU (Beth Holmgren)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 11:06:54 -0400
Subject: Thanks for suggested vendors for Munk's ZEZOWATE SZCZESCIE
Message-ID: <SAT.26.APR.2008.110654.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

My thanks to all of you who have replied to my request re: purchasing
Munk's film.  I've found several good online vendors with your help.

Best,

Beth Holmgren

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From p_rikoun at YAHOO.COM  Sun Apr 27 15:05:37 2008
From: p_rikoun at YAHOO.COM (Polina Rikoun)
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 08:05:37 -0700
Subject: Suggestions for 3d year Russian textbook?
In-Reply-To: <915e3a140804160333m3c709ffeq3543d985d507986c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.27.APR.2008.080537.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Greetings!

I am looking for a 3-d year Russian textbook that balances grammar review, vocabulary building, and a strong emphasis on reading.  So far, "Russian in Use" looks good, but I am also interested to see what other people are using and/or can recommend.  Any suggestions?  Many thanks in advance!

Polina Rikoun
University of Denver

       
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.

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From brifkin at TEMPLE.EDU  Sun Apr 27 17:47:33 2008
From: brifkin at TEMPLE.EDU (Ben Rifkin)
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 13:47:33 -0400
Subject: Suggestions for 3d year Russian textbook?
In-Reply-To: <371044.10044.qm@web90505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.27.APR.2008.134733.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Colleagues:

You can find a rather comprehensive essay on materials available for the
teaching of Russian at

http://slavica.com/teaching/rifkin.html

The essay was originally published in 2000, updated again in 2001 and 2005.

Best wishes to all,

BR


On 4/27/08 11:05 AM, "Polina Rikoun" <p_rikoun at YAHOO.COM> wrote:


> I am looking for a 3-d year Russian textbook

> Polina Rikoun
> University of Denver
> 

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From john at RUSLAN.CO.UK  Sun Apr 27 19:23:51 2008
From: john at RUSLAN.CO.UK (John Langran)
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 20:23:51 +0100
Subject: Suggestions for 3d year Russian textbook?
Message-ID: <SUN.27.APR.2008.202351.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

This is an excellent summary, but does not include my Ruslan Russian 3, 
which was published towards the end of 2005. Hope you can include this in 
the next update, Ben.
I am not sure whether any reviews of Ruslan 3 have appeared in the USA yet. 
Does anyone know? Below is my marketing description.
John Langran
www.ruslan.co.uk


<<
Ruslan Russian 3
Ruslan Russian 3 is a continuation of the Ruslan course to advanced level. 
The action takes place in Irkutsk and around Lake Baikal. Lyudmila and 
Ruslan go to visit Uncle Kolya, a pensioner in Irkutsk. Lyudmila meets up 
with her former husband Igor Abramovich, who is director of a factory in 
Baikalsk, Vadim is shooting a documentary film about pollution in the lake, 
and Ivan is helping Peter to test a new English cream for mosquitos.

This is a 10 lesson course incorporating the necessary constructions for AS 
and A2 level Russian. There is a large variety of reading and listening 
material about Russia on cultural, literary and historical themes, as well 
as material for developing vocabulary and communication skills.

184 pages. Full colour. Three accompanying audio CDs.

The multimedia CDRom version of Ruslan 3 (3 separate cdroms) uses the 
prizewinning Ruslan CDRom template for maximum interactivity, and contains 
all the recorded sound, with a large number of additional exercises and 
photos.
>>

More detail at www.ruslan.co.uk/ruslan.htm






----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ben Rifkin" <brifkin at TEMPLE.EDU>
To: <SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 6:47 PM
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Suggestions for 3d year Russian textbook?


> Dear Colleagues:
>
> You can find a rather comprehensive essay on materials available for the
> teaching of Russian at
>
> http://slavica.com/teaching/rifkin.html
>
> The essay was originally published in 2000, updated again in 2001 and 
> 2005.
>
> Best wishes to all,
>
> BR
>
>
> On 4/27/08 11:05 AM, "Polina Rikoun" <p_rikoun at YAHOO.COM> wrote:
>
>
>> I am looking for a 3-d year Russian textbook
>
>> Polina Rikoun
>> University of Denver
>>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

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From lzaharkov at WITTENBERG.EDU  Sun Apr 27 22:19:10 2008
From: lzaharkov at WITTENBERG.EDU (Lila W. Zaharkov)
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 18:19:10 -0400
Subject: Suggestions for 3d year Russian textbook?
In-Reply-To: <371044.10044.qm@web90505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.27.APR.2008.181910.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

At 11:05 AM 04/27/2008, you wrote:
>Greetings!
>
>I am looking for a 3-d year Russian textbook that balances grammar review, 
>vocabulary building, and a strong emphasis on reading.  So far, "Russian 
>in Use" looks good, but I am also interested to see what other people are 
>using and/or can recommend.  Any suggestions?  Many thanks in advance!
>
>Polina Rikoun
>University of Denver
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it 
>now.
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please go to the russia on line website or zlatoust-we have maybe one 
textbook by the Americans-there are many new and beautiful books used at 
MGU.  Reasonanbly priced soft cover.  I have just ordered several.

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From john at RUSLAN.CO.UK  Sun Apr 27 22:26:06 2008
From: john at RUSLAN.CO.UK (John Langran)
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 23:26:06 +0100
Subject: Fw: [SEELANGS] Suggestions for 3d year Russian textbook?
Message-ID: <SUN.27.APR.2008.232606.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear SEELANGS
Since I posted this a couple of hours ago I have already had 2 colleagues 
ask off list for free sample copies. I am sorry, but I can't do this because 
of the high cost of postage to the USA. Ruslan Limited is a very small 
company with just this one series.
For teachers who want to sample the book there are downloads of the first 
lesson and the contents pages at www.ruslan.co.uk/ruslan.htm#ruslan3
There are lessons from the Ruslan 1 and 2 cdroms at 
www.ruslan.co.uk/demos.htm and I shall put a lesson from Ruslan 3 up there 
soon.
John Langran
www.ruslan.co.uk


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Langran" <john at ruslan.co.uk>
To: "SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list" 
<SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Suggestions for 3d year Russian textbook?


> This is an excellent summary, but does not include my Ruslan Russian 3, 
> which was published towards the end of 2005. Hope you can include this in 
> the next update, Ben.
> I am not sure whether any reviews of Ruslan 3 have appeared in the USA 
> yet. Does anyone know? Below is my marketing description.
> John Langran
> www.ruslan.co.uk
>
>
> <<
> Ruslan Russian 3
> Ruslan Russian 3 is a continuation of the Ruslan course to advanced level. 
> The action takes place in Irkutsk and around Lake Baikal. Lyudmila and 
> Ruslan go to visit Uncle Kolya, a pensioner in Irkutsk. Lyudmila meets up 
> with her former husband Igor Abramovich, who is director of a factory in 
> Baikalsk, Vadim is shooting a documentary film about pollution in the 
> lake, and Ivan is helping Peter to test a new English cream for mosquitos.
>
> This is a 10 lesson course incorporating the necessary constructions for 
> AS and A2 level Russian. There is a large variety of reading and listening 
> material about Russia on cultural, literary and historical themes, as well 
> as material for developing vocabulary and communication skills.
>
> 184 pages. Full colour. Three accompanying audio CDs.
>
> The multimedia CDRom version of Ruslan 3 (3 separate cdroms) uses the 
> prizewinning Ruslan CDRom template for maximum interactivity, and contains 
> all the recorded sound, with a large number of additional exercises and 
> photos.
>>>
>
> More detail at www.ruslan.co.uk/ruslan.htm
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ben Rifkin" <brifkin at TEMPLE.EDU>
> To: <SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU>
> Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 6:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Suggestions for 3d year Russian textbook?
>
>
>> Dear Colleagues:
>>
>> You can find a rather comprehensive essay on materials available for the
>> teaching of Russian at
>>
>> http://slavica.com/teaching/rifkin.html
>>
>> The essay was originally published in 2000, updated again in 2001 and 
>> 2005.
>>
>> Best wishes to all,
>>
>> BR
>>
>>
>> On 4/27/08 11:05 AM, "Polina Rikoun" <p_rikoun at YAHOO.COM> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I am looking for a 3-d year Russian textbook
>>
>>> Polina Rikoun
>>> University of Denver
>>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> 

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From lino59 at AMERITECH.NET  Mon Apr 28 01:51:34 2008
From: lino59 at AMERITECH.NET (Deborah Hoffman)
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 18:51:34 -0700
Subject: Krymchak (Tatar) to English translation
Message-ID: <SUN.27.APR.2008.185134.0700.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Please contact Mr. Heller directly if you can help.
   
  >MENDELE Yiddish Language and Literature
>Personal Notices and Announcements
>
>April 27, 2008
>
>________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
>
>________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
From: Paul Glasser 

Subject: Krymchak translation

Mr. Charles Heller is looking for someone to translate letters that are
written in Krymchak. He writes:

> I have some old family letters that I have been told are written in the
> Krymchak language and script. Can you put me in touch with someone who can
> translate these? I am told that they came down through my mother's fathers
> family, who emigrated from Taurig, Latvia, in the early 1890's.

If you are interested in this job, please contact him directly:

Charles Heller
1317 W. Park Street
Arlington Heights, IL 60005
(847) 259-5896
E-Mail: CHeller689 at aol.com
_______________________________________________________________________________

Please do not use the "reply" key.
  

Deborah Hoffman, Esq.
Russian > English Legal and Literary Translations

A man ceases to be a beginner in any given science and becomes a master in that science when he has learned that he is going to be a beginner all his life. -- R. G. Collingwood


Deborah Hoffman, Esq.
Russian > English Legal and Literary Translations

A man ceases to be a beginner in any given science and becomes a master in that science when he has learned that he is going to be a beginner all his life. -- R. G. Collingwood

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From romy at PETUHOV.COM  Mon Apr 28 06:20:11 2008
From: romy at PETUHOV.COM (Romy Taylor)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 02:20:11 -0400
Subject: Nigilistka, 20,000 rubles in 1874
In-Reply-To: <925858.26380.qm@web80603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <MON.28.APR.2008.022011.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear colleagues!

At the end of Kovalevskaya's "Nihilist Girl," Vera Barantsova inherits  
20,000 rubles, marries a nihilist and follows him to Siberia.

My students wanted to know: was 20,000 rubles a lot in 1874?  Was Vera  
an heiress
"playing nihilist," or was she going to live a hardship life on very  
little money?

 From the sums mentioned in Anna Karenina (Levin paying 14 rubles for  
a magnificent dinner with Stiva), 20,000 seems like a lot - but I'd  
love to hear more about the ruble's comparative worth, ups and downs.

Yours gratefully,
Romy Taylor

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From Wendy.Rosslyn at NOTTINGHAM.AC.UK  Mon Apr 28 12:41:03 2008
From: Wendy.Rosslyn at NOTTINGHAM.AC.UK (Rosslyn Wendy)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:41:03 +0100
Subject: Lectureship in Russian Studies, Nottingham (UK)
Message-ID: <MON.28.APR.2008.134103.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

University of Nottingham

School of Modern Languages & Cultures

Department of Russian & Slavonic Studies

Lecturer in Russian Studies

Applications are invited for the above post in the Department of Russian and Slavonic Studies, which is one of the leading Russian and Slavonic departments in the UK, and covers Russia and South East Europe. Currently, the departmental research clusters are 19th-21st century literature and culture; narratives of national identity; theatre; translation studies; and South East European Studies. The Department also contributes to the CRCEES [see: www.gla.ac.uk/crcees/ <http://www.gla.ac.uk/crcees/> ] research strands.

Applications will be considered from individuals, including early-career researchers, who have a PhD (or are near completion) or equivalent and a high quality research profile. The successful candidate will provide undergraduate teaching at all levels and postgraduate supervision. As well as the ability to teach Russian language at undergraduate level, the Department requires a lecturer to contribute to the teaching in at least one of the following areas in Russian culture, with a strong preference for the pre 20th century: Russian literary studies; gender studies; cultural history. This post will involve administrative responsibilities and pastoral care of students.

Salary will be within the range £30,012 - £40,335 per annum, depending on qualifications and experience (salary can progress to £46,759 per annum, subject to performance). This post is available from 1 September 2008.

Informal enquiries may be addressed to Professor C Marsh, tel: 0115 951 5824 or Email: Cynthia.Marsh at Nottingham.ac.uk <mailto:Cynthia.Marsh at Nottingham.ac.uk> .

For more details and/or to apply on-line please access: http://jobs.nottingham.ac.uk/CJ26357 <http://jobs.nottingham.ac.uk/CJ26357> .  If you are unable to apply on-line please contact the Human Resources Department, tel: 0115 951 3262 or fax: 0115 951 5205.  Please quote ref. CJ/26357.  Closing date: 21 May 2008. Interview date: 19 June 2008.

 
Professor Wendy Rosslyn
Department of Russian and Slavonic Studies
School of Modern Languages and Cultures
University of Nottingham
University Park
Nottingham NG7 2RD
 
0115 951 5829 
Urgent messages: 0115 951 5824 (Ann Howe, Departmental Administrator)
 
 
 
 

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment
may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system:
you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the
University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


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From djbpitt+seelangs at PITT.EDU  Mon Apr 28 13:03:02 2008
From: djbpitt+seelangs at PITT.EDU (David J. Birnbaum)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:03:02 -0500
Subject: Unicode 5.1 Cyrillic fonts
Message-ID: <MON.28.APR.2008.080302.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Colleagues,

FYI.

Sincerely,

David
_____


Dear fellow Slavists,

at the beginning of April, Unicode version 5.1 has been officially released.
This version offers dozens of additional Cyrillic characters - historical
characters as well as ones for non-Slavic languages. UC 5.1 also adds many
additional Latin characters especially for medievalists etc.

If you want to take a look at all the new Cyrillic additions, please refer to
http://std.dkuug.dk/jtc1/sc2/wg2/docs/n3194.pdf

I am please to announce the release of v. 3 of my RomanCyrillic Std font
which can be downloaded - as before - from the following page:

http://kodeks.uni-bamberg.de/AKSL/Schrift/RomanCyrillicStd.htm

This new version supports Unicode 5.1 in all relevant areas (Latin,
Phonetics, Cyrillic, Diacritics, Punctuation, Editorial Marks etc.) and adds
more than 1.000 new characters for a total of now more than 3.500 characters.

This is also the first version of the font to make extensive use of OpenType
Features. If your application supports such features (like Adobe InDesign
and many more - in the future) you will have access to a hundred altenate
character shapes - historical Cyrillic characters, to precomposed accented
letters, Slavic numbers, ligatures etc., all without using the Private Use
Area of Unicode.

The companion font, Kliment Std, will be available soon, too, in a UC 5.1
compliant version.

Please feel free to forward my post to other suitable lists and/or
colleagues who might be interested.

Sebastian Kempgen
-- 

***********************************************************
* Prof. Dr. Sebastian Kempgen
* University of Bamberg, Chair of Slavic Linguistics
* 96045 Bamberg/Germany
* Tel. +49 - 951 - 863 2107, Fax: +49 - 951 - 863 2108
* http://www.uni-bamberg.de/slavling
***********************************************************

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From markian.dobczansky at GMAIL.COM  Mon Apr 28 15:03:27 2008
From: markian.dobczansky at GMAIL.COM (Markian Dobczansky)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:03:27 -0400
Subject: Job Opportunities: Kennan Institute
Message-ID: <MON.28.APR.2008.110327.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

The Kennan Institute of the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars
in Washington, D.C. announces two job vacancies. The Wilson Center will be
accepting applications for the positions from April 21 to May 5. The two
positions are:

--Program Assistant, responsible for programmatic and administrative issues
related to the Kennan Kyiv Project.

--Editorial Assistant, responsible for assisting with publication and
meeting/conference support.

For more information on how to apply, please visit the Wilson Center
employment page at www.wilsoncenter.org/employment after April 21. Please
follow instructions carefully.

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From kononova at WISC.EDU  Mon Apr 28 16:03:52 2008
From: kononova at WISC.EDU (VIKTORIYA KONONOVA)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:03:52 -0500
Subject: AATSEEL-Wisconsin call for papers
Message-ID: <MON.28.APR.2008.110352.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

AATSEEL-Wisconsin Conference
17-18 October 2008
University of Wisconsin-Madison

Call for papers for the 2008 AATSEEL-WI Conference

Abstracts for 20 minute papers on any aspect of Slavic literatures and cultures (including film, music, the visual arts, and 
language pedagogy) are invited for the annual conference of the Wisconsin chapter of AATSEEL (The American Association of 
Teachers of Slavic and East European Languages).  
Comparative topics and interdisciplinary approaches are welcome.  The conference will be held at the University of Wisconsin-
Madison on Friday and Saturday, 17-18 October 2008.

Recent conference programs and guidelines for preparing abstracts are posted on the AATSEEL-WI website at 
http://slavic.lss.wisc.edu/programs/abstracts.html


To present a paper at the AATSEEL-WI conference, please submit a proposal by 31 August 2008.  A complete proposal consists 
of:
1.  Author's contact information (name, affiliation, postal address, telephone and email).
2.  Paper title
3.  300-500 word abstract
4.  Equipment request (if necessary)

Please send proposals by email to:
Victoria Kononova
kononova at wisc.edu

All submissions will be acknowledged.


Victoria Kononova
University of Wisconsin-Madison

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From caron.4 at OSU.EDU  Mon Apr 28 16:17:57 2008
From: caron.4 at OSU.EDU (Inna Caron)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:17:57 -0400
Subject: Nigilistka, 20,000 rubles in 1874
In-Reply-To: <20080428022011.1nnfmel1wsw0k800@www.petuhov.com>
Message-ID: <MON.28.APR.2008.121757.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Hi Romy!

It seems that some eight years earlier, the sum of 10,000 rubles that
Svidrigailov offered Dunya (via Raskolnikov) afforded her financial
independence and saved from the marriage of convenience to dreadful Luzhin.
Granted, things may have changed by 1874 (seeing as the gas prices nearly
quadrupled here in the past decade :), but I can't imagine the change would
be that dramatic. I believe Vera inherited enough to sustain a young lady of
her stature and to provide respectable dowry for when a proper marriage
prospect came along. Her nuptial choice was certainly that of free will (and
perhaps defiance ?)

Inna

Inna Caron
Ph.D. Candidate, Slavic Languages and Literatures
Graduate Senator (College of Humanities)
The Ohio State University
400 Hagerty Hall
Columbus, OH 43210
614-292-6733
caron.4 at osu.edu

-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
[mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Romy Taylor
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 2:20 AM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: [SEELANGS] Nigilistka, 20,000 rubles in 1874

Dear colleagues!

At the end of Kovalevskaya's "Nihilist Girl," Vera Barantsova inherits  
20,000 rubles, marries a nihilist and follows him to Siberia.

My students wanted to know: was 20,000 rubles a lot in 1874?  Was Vera  
an heiress
"playing nihilist," or was she going to live a hardship life on very  
little money?

 From the sums mentioned in Anna Karenina (Levin paying 14 rubles for  
a magnificent dinner with Stiva), 20,000 seems like a lot - but I'd  
love to hear more about the ruble's comparative worth, ups and downs.

Yours gratefully,
Romy Taylor

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From jsmith at AMERICANCOUNCILS.ORG  Mon Apr 28 18:51:53 2008
From: jsmith at AMERICANCOUNCILS.ORG (Jake Smith)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:51:53 -0500
Subject: JOB - Program Officer, American Councils, Osh, Kyrgyzstan
Message-ID: <MON.28.APR.2008.135153.0500.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Job: Program Officer, American Councils
Location: Osh, Kyrgyzstan

American Councils for International Education is seeking a Program Officer
to supervise the Uzbek and Kyrgyz components of the Central Asian Languages
Overseas Flagship and Eurasian Regional Language Programs in Osh, Kyrgyzstan.

Requirements include:

-Familiarity with culture and geography of Kyrgyzstan and Uzbekistan;
-Proficiency in spoken and written Uzbek or Kyrgyz;
-Additional proficiency in Russian is strongly preferred;
-Extensive experience living and studying or working in Central Asia;
-Excellent communication skills and strong attention to detail;
-Demonstrated administrative, budgeting, and organizational skills;
-Experience with US and international education preferred;
-Advanced degree in relevant field (e.g. language, education, area studies
etc.) preferred.

For more information and to apply please view the full position description
at http://www.americancouncils.org/employmentList.php and visit our website
at http://flagship.americancouncils.org/splash.php. 

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From rrobin at GWU.EDU  Mon Apr 28 20:36:06 2008
From: rrobin at GWU.EDU (Richard Robin)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:36:06 -0400
Subject: Fwd: GW-CIBER: Your Special Invitation to the World Russian Forum
In-Reply-To: <4f9214180804281251r5c537983y2da8d00da737fa88@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MON.28.APR.2008.163606.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Colleagues,

The Center for International Business Education and Research at the
George Washington University (GW-CIBER) is collaborating with the
organizers of the World Russian Forum in an effort to bring world
class experts to Russian language educators, students, and
practitioners.

We invite you to join us for the 27th annual World Russian Forum to be
held May 19-20, 2008 on Capitol Hill, at the George Washington
University, and the Russian Cultural Center in Washington, DC. The
main purpose of the Forum is to discuss and generate new ideas for the
development and broad expansion of U.S.-Russia cooperation in global
security, business and commerce, science and education, and other key
areas. There will be a specific session for Russian language
instructors that will focus on understanding, analyzing, and
interpreting the rich content on Russian business, politics, and
educational issues in order to devise ways in which these new insights
can be transferred into the Russian language classroom, and more
specifically the Business Russian classroom. In-depth discussion will
be led by experienced business language professional Dr. Maria
Bourlatskaya from the Lauder Institute at the University of
Pennsylvania. Participants will be immersed in the Russian language
throughout the duration of the program.

The GW-CIBER is subsidizing the majority of the $250 registration fee
for Russian instructors who are interested in attending the World
Russian Forum. The reduced fee is $100. You have to register thorough
the GW-CIBER in order to receive this discount! Please feel free to share
this information with your graduate students and other educators who
might be interested in participating!

For additional information and to register, please visit:
http://business.gwu.edu/CIBER/specialevents/wrf.htm

Sincerely,

Anna Helm and Margaret Gonglewski
Business Language Co-Coordinators,
GW-CIBER (Center for International Business Education and Research)
Richard Robin, Russian Language Consultant
The George Washington University

-- 
Anna Helm, Ph.D.
Visiting Assistant Professor of
International Business
The George Washington University
2201 G St. N.W.
Funger Hall Suite 401S
Washington, DC  20052
TEL (202) 994-0820
FAX (202) 994-7422
ahelm at gwu.edu



-- 
Richard M. Robin, Ph.D.
Director Russian Language Program
Technical Adviser, GW Language Сenter
The George Washington University
Washington, DC 20052
202-994-7081
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Russkiy tekst v UTF-8


From romy at PETUHOV.COM  Tue Apr 29 02:18:50 2008
From: romy at PETUHOV.COM (Romy Taylor)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 22:18:50 -0400
Subject: Nigilistka, 20,000 rubles in 1874
In-Reply-To: <010101c8a94b$6c947890$45bd69b0$@4@osu.edu>
Message-ID: <MON.28.APR.2008.221850.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Thank you for responses on and off-list!

It looks like 20,000 rubles in 1874 would be worth between $117,000  
and $10 million today, with most estimates hovering around $150,000 -  
177,000.

Yours gratefully,
Romy Taylor

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From asred at COX.NET  Tue Apr 29 08:03:53 2008
From: asred at COX.NET (Steve Marder)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 04:03:53 -0400
Subject: Nigilistka, 20,000 rubles in 1874
In-Reply-To: <20080428221850.vzm2qdnyyo4wck8o@www.petuhov.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.29.APR.2008.040353.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

> It looks like 20,000 rubles in 1874 would be worth between $117,000
> and $10 million today, with most estimates hovering around $150,000 -
> 177,000.

Romy,

Would you mind divulging how those figures were arrived at?

Steve Marder

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From ingunn.lunde at IF.UIB.NO  Tue Apr 29 12:33:51 2008
From: ingunn.lunde at IF.UIB.NO (Ingunn Lunde)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 14:33:51 +0200
Subject: PhD and Postdoctoral positions at the U. of Bergen - URL update
Message-ID: <TUE.29.APR.2008.143351.0200.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

There has been a change in the URL for the postdoctoral position  
announced below. Also, please note that applications for this  
position, just as for the PhD position, should be submitted  
electronically. For details, see http://www.jobbnorge.no/visstilling2.aspx?stillid=47655&lang=EN

/IL

------------------------------------------------------

Announcing two fully-funded positions, one Postdoctoral Fellow and one  
PhD student, at the Department of Foreign Languages, University of  
Bergen, Norway.

Application deadline: 15 June, 2008
Starting date: 1 January 2009

Both positions are connected to the research project "The Future of  
Russian: Language Culture in the Era of New  
Technology" (8/2008-7/2012) led by Ingunn Lunde (U of Bergen).

For further details, see below.

/IL


POSTDOCTORAL FELLOW IN RUSSIAN

At the Department of Foreign Languages, University of Bergen, there is  
a vacant three-year position as postdoctoral fellow in Russian  
starting 1 January 2009. The position is connected to the research  
project "The Future of Russian: Language Culture in the Era of New  
Technology" (8/2008–7/2012) led by Professor Ingunn Lunde. We invite  
candidates to propose a research project within one of the three main  
fields of research of the "Future" project: 1. Russian on the  
Internet, 2. The Russian Literary Internet, 3. Linguistic Negotiation  
in the Internet. The project proposal, including a tentative time  
table, must not exceed 5 pages. The application must be written in  
English.

Applicants must have a PhD in Russian or equivalent relevant  
education, or have presented the dissertation for assessment by the  
closing date for applications. Research experience in sociolinguistics  
or literary sociology is an advantage.

For more information about the position and the “Future of Russian”  
project, please contact Professor Ingunn Lunde, Department of Foreign  
Languages, University of Bergen ingunn.lunde at if.uib.no.

An international committee of experts will evaluate the candidates.  
The main emphasis of the evaluation will be placed on the candidate’s  
research experience and potential as evidenced by her or his PhD  
thesis and other scholarly works, project proposal, and other relevant  
qualifications.

The University of Bergen applies the principles of public openness  
when recruiting staff to scientific positions.

The application is to be sent electronically via the link «Apply for  
this position» (see http://www.jobbnorge.no/visstilling2.aspx?stillid=47655&lang=EN) 
. Applicants are asked to follow the steps as described in the  
Guidelines for Electronic Applications at the Faculty of Humanities: http://www.hf.uib.no/fakultet/adminfo/veiled_eng.html
In addition to the electronical enclosures, academic publications  
(maximum 5) should be delivered and collated in 3 complete sets and  
sent to the University of Bergen, Department of Foreign Languages, pb  
7805, N-5020 Bergen, Norway, by 15 June 2008.

Reference no.: 08/3888

The full advertisement can be found at http://www.jobbnorge.no/visstilling2.aspx?stillid=47655&lang=EN

-------------------------------

PHD POSITION IN RUSSIAN

At the Department of Foreign Languages, University of Bergen, there is  
a vacant three-year position as research fellow (PhD student) in  
Russian starting 1 January 2009. The position is connected to the  
research project "The Future of Russian: Language Culture in the Era  
of New Technology" (8/2008-7/2012) led by Professor Ingunn Lunde.

Applicants must have an MA degree in Russian or equivalent relevant  
education. Research experience in sociolinguistics or literary  
sociology is an advantage.

The term of the scholarship will be used to complete course work and  
research according to the universitys approved PhD programme, and will  
result in the awarding of a PhD degree, total period of three years.  
PhD students may be given teaching assignments, in which case the  
total period will be extended up to four years. Such tasks will be  
decided upon in the process of  employment.

For more information about the position and the «Future of Russian»  
project, please contact Professor Ingunn Lunde, Department of Foreign  
Languages, ingunn.lunde at if.uib.no , phone +47 55 58 20 17.

An international committee of experts will evaluate the candidates.  
The main emphasis of the evaluation will be placed on the candidates  
research potential as evidenced by her or his MA thesis (or the  
equivalent), other scholarly works (if available), project proposal,  
other relevant qualifications.

The University of Bergen applies the principles of public openness  
when recruiting staff to scientific positions.

The application is to be sent electronically via the link «Apply for  
this position» (see http://www.jobbnorge.no/visstilling2.aspx?stillid=47422&lang=EN) 
  to the University of Bergen. Candidates should propose a research  
project within one of the three main fields of research of the  
«Future» project: 1. Russian on the Internet, 2. The Russian Literary  
Internet, 3. Linguistic Negotiation in the Internet. The application  
must be written in English. Applicants are asked to follow the steps  
as described in the Guidelines for Electronic Applications at the  
Faculty of Humanities:http://www.hf.uib.no/fakultet/adminfo/veiled_stip.html

Reference no.: 2008/5033

The full advertisement can be found at http://www.jobbnorge.no/visstilling2.aspx?stillid=47422&lang=EN



-------------
Ingunn Lunde
Dept of Foreign Languages
University of Bergen
P.O. Box 7805
N-5020 Bergen, Norway
Tel. (+47) 55 58 20 17
Fax: (+47) 55 58 42 60
e-mail: Ingunn.Lunde at if.uib.no
http://www.hf.uib.no/i/russisk/landslide/ingunn.html



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From msr2003 at COLUMBIA.EDU  Wed Apr 30 02:43:41 2008
From: msr2003 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Margo Rosen)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 22:43:41 -0400
Subject: contemporary Russian poetry
Message-ID: <TUE.29.APR.2008.224341.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Esteemed colleagues,

A non-Russian speaking colleague of mine is teaching contemporary  
Russian poetry in translation as part of a world poetry overview.  She  
had two questions for which I could supply only very provisional  
answers.  To wit:
What would you say might be a reason why titles to individual poems aren't
so popular for Russian poets?
  And--Do you think the Petersburg or the Moscow tradition is most
  dominant today?

Please respond offlist to  	angela.ball at comcast.net     with any  
insights you care to share.

Best,
Margo Rosen
Columbia University

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From Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK  Wed Apr 30 07:32:11 2008
From: Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK (Alexandra Smith)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 08:32:11 +0100
Subject: Russian Teaching Assistant
In-Reply-To: <20080429224341.vchdhz6twow8kgkk@cubmail.cc.columbia.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.30.APR.2008.083211.0100.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Source: jobs.ac.uk

Russian Teaching Assistant
School of Literatures, Languages and Cultures, Division of European  
Languages and Cultures
College of Humanities and Social Science
We seek to recruit a Russian Teaching Assistant who is a native  
speaker of Russian, with a relevant University Degree qualification.  
You will have excellent command of English both written and spoken and  
have teaching experience, preferably at Higher Education level.

The post is fixed term for 10 months from 1 August 2008 to 31 May  
2009, with the possibility of renewal for up to three years.

Grade 6:  £23,692 - £27,466 per annum (pro rata for ten months)

Please quote vacancy reference:  3009091

Closing date for applications:  31 May 2008

We would hope to hold interviews in Edinburgh on or around the 25 June 2008.

For further particulars  
https://www.jobs.ed.ac.uk/jobs/index.cfm?action=jobdet&jobid=3009091  
and an application pack visit our website (www.jobs.ed.ac.uk) or  
telephone the recruitment line on 0131 650 2511.

Click here for Employer Profile

================================

Alexandra Smith (PhD, University of London)
Reader in Russian
Department of European Languages and Cultures
School of  Languages, Literatures and Cultures
The University of Edinburgh
David Hume Tower
George Square
Edinburgh EX8 9JX
UK

tel. +44-(0)131-6511381
fax: +44- (0)131- 650-3604
e-mail: Alexandra.Smith at ed.ac.uk




-- 
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.

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From jwilson at SRAS.ORG  Wed Apr 30 09:37:34 2008
From: jwilson at SRAS.ORG (Josh Wilson)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:37:34 +0400
Subject: Thanks, SEELANGERs!
Message-ID: <WED.30.APR.2008.133734.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Thanks to all of you who forwarded the information I posted about the Alinga
Consulting Group internship to your students. We were inundated with great
applications - so many that Alinga actually decided to boost the budget for
the program and take two interns! We hope that this will continue as a
yearly program offering students an affordable and unique resume-building
experience abroad.

These and any other opportunities we hear of will be announced in our
regular monthly newsletter. We've just published a new edition of that
newsletter - this time with articles on Russian shanson, modern dance in
Moscow, and other issues surrounding modern Russian culture and language.
Anyone interested in reading these articles can find them here:
http://www.sras.org/newsletter2.phtml?m=393 . 

Lastly, tomorrow is the application deadline for our study abroad programs
offered for the fall semester of 2008. If any of you have students
interested in study abroad during the next academic year, remind them that
now is the time to start planning! 


Thanks again, 

Josh Wilson
Asst. Director
The School of Russian and Asian Studies
Editor-in-Chief
Vestnik, The Journal of Russian and Asian Studies
www.sras.org
jwilson at sras.org

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From alexaaa at BGNET.BGSU.EDU  Wed Apr 30 19:15:47 2008
From: alexaaa at BGNET.BGSU.EDU (alexaaa@bgnet.bgsu.edu)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:15:47 -0400
Subject: stereotypes about Russian language
In-Reply-To: <20080430083211.kay428horo8w0k04@www.staffmail.ed.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <WED.30.APR.2008.151547.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Hello everyone,

Is there really a strong stereotype among our students that
Russian is one of the heardest languages to learn? Is it anyhow
discussed in scholarly works? If you know any works, could you
please redirect me to them?

Thank you very much!

Sincerely,

Anastasia Alexandrova

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From annac at UALBERTA.CA  Wed Apr 30 20:08:05 2008
From: annac at UALBERTA.CA (annac at UALBERTA.CA)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:08:05 -0600
Subject: stereotypes about Russian language
In-Reply-To: <1209582947-29087.00045.00009-smmsdV2.1.6@smtp.bgsu.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.30.APR.2008.140805.0600.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

As an undergraduate student I took many Russian language courses and I  
never heard anyone say that Russian is one of the most difficult  
language to learn.
Anna

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From John.Pendergast at USMA.EDU  Wed Apr 30 20:16:27 2008
From: John.Pendergast at USMA.EDU (Pendergast, J. Mr DFL)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:16:27 -0400
Subject: stereotypes about Russian language
In-Reply-To: A<1209582947-29087.00045.00009-smmsdV2.1.6@smtp.bgsu.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.30.APR.2008.161627.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Rating of language difficulty is a slippery and complex task, but the US
Department of Defense has done it for its own purposes by classifying
languages in four categories I thru IV, I being the easiest (including
many of the Romance languages) and IV being the hardest (including
Arabic and Chinese, for example).   Russian is Cat III language, so
using this logic, it would NOT be one of the hardest.  

Here is a non-exhaustive list of the categories from
http://www.military.com/benefits/military-pay/special-pay/military-forei
gn-language-proficiency-pay

Category I - 95: French, Italian, Portuguese, and Spanish 
Category II - 100: German 
Category III - 105: Greek, Hebrew, Moro, Persian-Farsi, Persian-Afghan,
Afghan, Russian, Serbian/Croatian, Tagalog, Thai, Turkish, Uzbek, and
Vietnamese 
Category IV- 110: Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, and Korean     

John Pendergast
Assistant Professor of Russian
United States Military Academy
745 Brewerton Road
West Point, NY 10996
845-938-0310


-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
[mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of alexaaa at bgnet.bgsu.edu
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 3:16 PM
To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: [SEELANGS] stereotypes about Russian language

Hello everyone,

Is there really a strong stereotype among our students that Russian is
one of the heardest languages to learn? Is it anyhow discussed in
scholarly works? If you know any works, could you please redirect me to
them?

Thank you very much!

Sincerely,

Anastasia Alexandrova

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From jcostlow at BATES.EDU  Wed Apr 30 20:51:54 2008
From: jcostlow at BATES.EDU (Jane Costlow)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:51:54 -0400
Subject: stereotypes about Russian language
In-Reply-To: <7537E9E84ADB7043907093855059B2651071570E@USMASVGDOIM214.usma.ds.army.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.30.APR.2008.165154.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

The question here of course is student perception, not linguists' or 
pedagogues' understanding.  I have to relate a conversation with a 
student yesterday.   The young woman traveled with me to Russia during 
May of 2006.  She didn't go on to take Russian - she studied in Japan 
this past semester.  When I saw her yesterday (for the first time this 
year) she exclaimed "I miss Russia so much!"  Ever the cheerleader and 
recruiter, I suggested "Why don't you take Russian next fall!"
Her answer - "Those cases are SO hard." 

i.e.  - harder for her than the difficulties of Japanese.  She's 
actually an excellent student.

So I'm stumped what to say next....

Jane Costlow
Professor of Russian
Bates College
Lewiston, Maine


Pendergast, J. Mr DFL wrote:
> Rating of language difficulty is a slippery and complex task, but the US
> Department of Defense has done it for its own purposes by classifying
> languages in four categories I thru IV, I being the easiest (including
> many of the Romance languages) and IV being the hardest (including
> Arabic and Chinese, for example).   Russian is Cat III language, so
> using this logic, it would NOT be one of the hardest.  
>
> Here is a non-exhaustive list of the categories from
> http://www.military.com/benefits/military-pay/special-pay/military-forei
> gn-language-proficiency-pay
>
> Category I - 95: French, Italian, Portuguese, and Spanish 
> Category II - 100: German 
> Category III - 105: Greek, Hebrew, Moro, Persian-Farsi, Persian-Afghan,
> Afghan, Russian, Serbian/Croatian, Tagalog, Thai, Turkish, Uzbek, and
> Vietnamese 
> Category IV- 110: Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, and Korean     
>
> John Pendergast
> Assistant Professor of Russian
> United States Military Academy
> 745 Brewerton Road
> West Point, NY 10996
> 845-938-0310
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of alexaaa at bgnet.bgsu.edu
> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 3:16 PM
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: [SEELANGS] stereotypes about Russian language
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> Is there really a strong stereotype among our students that Russian is
> one of the heardest languages to learn? Is it anyhow discussed in
> scholarly works? If you know any works, could you please redirect me to
> them?
>
> Thank you very much!
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Anastasia Alexandrova
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>   

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From Marshall at AMERICANCOUNCILS.ORG  Wed Apr 30 20:54:58 2008
From: Marshall at AMERICANCOUNCILS.ORG (Camelot Marshall)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:54:58 -0400
Subject: Deadline for  Applications to the Professional Development
 Seminar for H.S. Russian Teachers
Message-ID: <WED.30.APR.2008.165458.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Dear Colleagues:

 

This is a reminder that the deadline for applications to the
Professional Development Seminar for H.S. Russian Teachers is May 16th.
This year's seminar will be held at Bryn Mawr College July 5-11, 2008.

 

Currently 50 teachers of Russian have attended the professional
development seminar.  The 2008 seminar at Bryn Mawr is of particular
interest to schools planning to offer AP(r) Russian (when it becomes
available) and who wish to move forward with the Prototype AP(r) Russian
Program now available through ACTR by agreement with the College Board.

 

Participants will learn about the goals and practices of the Advanced
Placement(r) Program with special emphasis on the new Russian Web-based
curriculum and teacher authoring tools especially designed for the
Prototype AP(r) Russian Language and Culture Course.  Teachers will also
be become familiar with the design and approach to language assessment
represented by the forthcoming standards-based Prototype AP(r) Russian
Language and Culture Exam, which is administered at the end of the
course. Upon successful completion of the seminar, participants will
receive a certificate in recognition of their training and one graduate
unit (4 hours) of academic credit from Bryn Mawr College, and they will
become a member of select teachers who offer the Prototype AP(r) Russian
Language and Culture Course and Exam at their schools.

 

The seminar is led by a group of peer-mentors, current teachers of
Russian who have piloted the advanced Russian course in their
classrooms, as well as specialists from ACTR and the Bryn Mawr
Department of Russian.  

 

Partial fellowships will be available to qualified U.S. teachers to
attend the 2008 seminar.  Each year, a number of school districts also
elect to support their teachers in this important professional
development program for teachers of Russian.

 

The workshop coincides with the annual Bryn Mawr Russian Language
Institute, an annual summer immersion language program that provides
additional opportunities for using Russian outside of the seminar
sessions. 

 

The Professional Development Seminar is open to high school teachers
interested in starting an Advanced Placement Russian Program.  

 

For more information and application form contact:

Camelot Marshall (marshall at americancouncils.org) Application Deadline:
May 16, 2008 Space is limited. 

 

 


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From pscotto at MTHOLYOKE.EDU  Wed Apr 30 21:08:55 2008
From: pscotto at MTHOLYOKE.EDU (pscotto at MTHOLYOKE.EDU)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:08:55 -0400
Subject: stereotypes about Russian language
In-Reply-To: <7537E9E84ADB7043907093855059B2651071570E@USMASVGDOIM214.usma.ds.army.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.30.APR.2008.170855.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

For a speaker whose native language is American English, it IS a hard 
language to learn.

In fact, it has certain grammatical features (like movable stress) that 
I would argue are as challenging as anything Chinese offers - even with 
its vaunted tones and ideographs.

Peter Scotto

> Rating of language difficulty is a slippery and complex task, but the US
> Department of Defense has done it for its own purposes by classifying
> languages in four categories I thru IV, I being the easiest (including
> many of the Romance languages) and IV being the hardest (including
> Arabic and Chinese, for example).   Russian is Cat III language, so
> using this logic, it would NOT be one of the hardest.
>
> Here is a non-exhaustive list of the categories from
> http://www.military.com/benefits/military-pay/special-pay/military-forei
> gn-language-proficiency-pay
>
> Category I - 95: French, Italian, Portuguese, and Spanish
> Category II - 100: German
> Category III - 105: Greek, Hebrew, Moro, Persian-Farsi, Persian-Afghan,
> Afghan, Russian, Serbian/Croatian, Tagalog, Thai, Turkish, Uzbek, and
> Vietnamese
> Category IV- 110: Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, and Korean
>
> John Pendergast
> Assistant Professor of Russian
> United States Military Academy
> 745 Brewerton Road
> West Point, NY 10996
> 845-938-0310
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of alexaaa at bgnet.bgsu.edu
> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 3:16 PM
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: [SEELANGS] stereotypes about Russian language
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> Is there really a strong stereotype among our students that Russian is
> one of the heardest languages to learn? Is it anyhow discussed in
> scholarly works? If you know any works, could you please redirect me to
> them?
>
> Thank you very much!
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Anastasia Alexandrova
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>



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From hhalva at MINDSPRING.COM  Wed Apr 30 21:21:43 2008
From: hhalva at MINDSPRING.COM (Helen Halva)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:21:43 -0400
Subject: stereotypes about Russian language
In-Reply-To: <7537E9E84ADB7043907093855059B2651071570E@USMASVGDOIM214.usma.ds.army.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.30.APR.2008.172143.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

When we look at this list, Russian is not in the hardest category.  But, 
at least for Americans, the category IV languages are virtually 
untaught, especially at the high school level.  So students usually make 
the comparison with category I and II languages, making Russian/Slavic 
languages  significantly more difficult than the other languages they 
experience ------ with the exception of Hebrew, perhaps, which has a 
wider audience outside the academic setting.

HH



Pendergast, J. Mr DFL wrote:
> Rating of language difficulty is a slippery and complex task, but the US
> Department of Defense has done it for its own purposes by classifying
> languages in four categories I thru IV, I being the easiest (including
> many of the Romance languages) and IV being the hardest (including
> Arabic and Chinese, for example).   Russian is Cat III language, so
> using this logic, it would NOT be one of the hardest.  
>
> Here is a non-exhaustive list of the categories from
> http://www.military.com/benefits/military-pay/special-pay/military-forei
> gn-language-proficiency-pay
>
> Category I - 95: French, Italian, Portuguese, and Spanish 
> Category II - 100: German 
> Category III - 105: Greek, Hebrew, Moro, Persian-Farsi, Persian-Afghan,
> Afghan, Russian, Serbian/Croatian, Tagalog, Thai, Turkish, Uzbek, and
> Vietnamese 
> Category IV- 110: Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, and Korean     
>
> John Pendergast
> Assistant Professor of Russian
> United States Military Academy
> 745 Brewerton Road
> West Point, NY 10996
> 845-938-0310
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
> [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of alexaaa at bgnet.bgsu.edu
> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 3:16 PM
> To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: [SEELANGS] stereotypes about Russian language
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> Is there really a strong stereotype among our students that Russian is
> one of the heardest languages to learn? Is it anyhow discussed in
> scholarly works? If you know any works, could you please redirect me to
> them?
>
> Thank you very much!
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Anastasia Alexandrova
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>   

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From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM  Wed Apr 30 22:20:47 2008
From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 18:20:47 -0400
Subject: stereotypes about Russian language
In-Reply-To: <4818DBEA.3050006@bates.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.30.APR.2008.182047.0400.SEELANGS@BAMA.UA.EDU>

Jane Costlow wrote:

> The question here of course is student perception, not linguists' or 
> pedagogues' understanding.  I have to relate a conversation with a 
> student yesterday.   The young woman traveled with me to Russia during 
> May of 2006.  She didn't go on to take Russian - she studied in Japan 
> this past semester.  When I saw her yesterday (for the first time this 
> year) she exclaimed "I miss Russia so much!"  Ever the cheerleader and 
> recruiter, I suggested "Why don't you take Russian next fall!"
> Her answer - "Those cases are SO hard."
> i.e.  - harder for her than the difficulties of Japanese.  She's 
> actually an excellent student.
> 
> So I'm stumped what to say next....

"You're a smart girl -- if you can manage the subtleties of Japanese, 
you can learn Russian cases with one tongue tied behind your back." ;-)

-- 
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
pbg translations, inc.
"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
http://pbg-translations.com

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