Russian vs. American politeness (was RE: [SEELANGS] =?EUC-KR?Q?=AC=B0_=AC=E1=AC=E0=AC=E4=AC=D6=AC=E2=AC=D6_=AC=E9=AC=E5=AC?= =?EUC-KR?Q?=D3=AC=E3=AC=E4=AC=D3=AC=D1_=AC=E3=AC=E4=AC=DA=AC=DD=AC=F1_?=(Raia Rozina RAN))

[Anna Ronell]

How about another worthwhile point this article is trying to make - the use
of obscenities in everyday conversation. It's interesting that Rozina says
that maybe the increased use of hardcore "mat" by women (which was
previously unacceptable in polite society) is a sign of women's liberation.
I see it every day in English. For example, a very well known phrase
"Bitches get stuff done" is in my view an example of this linguistic
phenomenon. It still boggles my mind though when I hear women refer to each
other affectionately as cunts or call their friends "my best bitch" instead
of "my best friend."


On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 3:44 PM, Paul B. Gallagher <
paulbg at pbg-translations.com> wrote:

> anne marie devlin wrote:
>
>  The imperative in English is generally rude and has to be mitigated
>> either syntactically (modality) or lexically (please). Russian
>> mitigates differently. Aspect, person and tense can be employed.
>> Think idi, idite and poshli. Such pragmatic structures are embedded
>> in culture and as such are extremely difficult to acquire. I've been
>> told that English speakers can sound like idiots in Russian and
>> likewise Russians can sound rude in English due to pragmatic
>> transfer. I used to enjoy listening to my Russian colleagues managing
>> their classrooms - sadites', syadte or vse seli.
>>
>
> Yes. Another culture's politeness strategies often come across to the L2
> learner as quaint, silly, or peculiar. It's hard to accept them as normal.
> See below.
>
>  I would be really interested to know if there has been any research
>> into the use of the past as an imperative in Russian - and of course
>> the thoughts of fellow seelangers. Pragmatics is an aspect of
>> language that is often overlooked in teaching.
>>
>
> Koreans often ask rhetorical questions where we would use direct
> statements or commands:
>
> After telling someone to leave: 안 가요? [Aren't you going?] instead of the
> repetitive command 가라니까! [Go, I say!], which is really harsh (compare the
> English "Are you still here?")
>
> 너 정말 이럴거야?
> Are you really going to be like that?
> (Don't be like that)
>
> 입 다물지 못해?!
> Won't you shut up?
> (Shut up already!)
>
> 고기 안먹어?
> Aren't you eating your meat?
> (Just eat your meat!)
>
> 내가 바보야?
> Am I a fool?
> (I'm no fool!/Who do you take me for?)
>
> The pattern for phrasing polite commands as questions seems to be to use
> social expectations/duty ("shouldn't you do the appropriate thing?") rather
> than one's personal power ("I told you, now obey!") to demand compliance.
> When I first encountered these, they struck me as passive-aggressive.
>
> Here are some denials, typically phrased as requests for proof or
> additional information:
>
> 내가 언제?
> When did I?
> (I did not!)
>
> 내가 왜(요)?
> Why would I?
> (I will not!)
>
> 무슨 소리야?
> What are you talking about?
> (No way!)
>
> We do this last one, too.
>
> --
> War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
> --
> Paul B. Gallagher
> pbg translations, inc.
> "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
> http://pbg-translations.com
>
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