Question of gender and pets

Jules Levin ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET
Mon Oct 28 05:10:50 UTC 2013 

On 10/27/2013 7:08 PM, Monnier, Nicole M. wrote:
> But interesting that Большой толковый словарь (author Кузнецов) gives the following example for the entry животное, in which the word is treated as what I suppose is an animate accusative on the model of the masculine: На паром грузили вещи, животных, размещали людей.
>    
But isn't the category of animation different in the plural?  The -a 
stem declension does not have a separate expression of animation in the 
singular, but it does in the plural:  koshku but koshek, mushchinu but 
mushchin.   So maybe in the plural zhivotnoe falls in with koshka, etc.
Isn't ditya also ditya in the Acc sg?  [I realize the declension is 
quite obsolete...]?  But in the Acc plural detej...
Since I presume zhivotnoe is neuter because of an understood 
"sushchestvo", I wonder how sushchestvo works in sg and pl in animation, 
maybe in science fiction...?
Jules Levin





>
>
> * * * *
>
> Dr. Nicole Monnier
> Associate Teaching Professor
> Director of Undergraduate Studies (Russian)
> 428A Strickland Hall
> University of Missouri
> Columbia, MO 65211
>
> ph: 573.882.3370
> fax: 573.884.8456
> ________________________________________
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic&  East European Languages and Literatures list [SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Irina Shevelenko [idshevelenko at WISC.EDU]
> Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2013 8:55 PM
> To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Question of gender and pets
>
> I was actually wrong. It is just because it is a *neuter* substantivized
> adjective that the "animated/unanimated" category does not apply. It would
> apply for the word "прохожий" or "приезжая".
>
> Irina
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic&  East European Languages and Literatures list
> [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Irina Shevelenko
> Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2013 8:49 PM
> To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Question of gender and pets
>
> Я вижу животное is correct. The issue here is that it is a substantivized
> adjective, and the grammar category of "animated/unanimated" does not exist
> in substantivized adjectives.
>
> Irina
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic&  East European Languages and Literatures list
> [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Monnier, Nicole M.
> Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2013 6:24 PM
> To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Question of gender and pets
>
> I'd also like to know how the neuter noun животное gets treated in terms of
> declension. In the accusative, my kneejerk is to treat it like an animate,
> which means it would take genitive endings. But one of my native speaker Tas
> is comfortable with treating it as an inanimate neuter
> accusative: Я вижу животное.
>
> Nicole
>
>
>
> ****************************
> Dr. Nicole Monnier
> Associate Teaching Professor of Russian
> Director of Undergraduate Studies (Russian) German&  Russian Studies 428A
> Strickland (formerly GCB) University of Missouri Columbia, MO 65211
>
> phone: 573.882.3370
>
>
>
>
> On 10/27/13 6:11 PM, "Robert Orr"<colkitto at ROGERS.COM>  wrote:
>
>    
>> Please do share your replies!  And do check out Greville Corbett's
>> agreement hierarchies, and match them to your data.
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On 2013-10-27, at 7:08 PM, Emily Saunders<emilka at MAC.COM>  wrote:
>>
>>      
>>> Thanks!  How about this hypothetical.  I own two dogs, both male.  If
>>> asked:  У тебя есть собака?  Would you be specific and answer:  У меня
>>> два кобеля (would you ever sаy пса?) Or would you say the generic у
>>> меня две собаки.
>>>
>>> Thanks.  It seems straightforward, but I get this question asked a
>>> lot when students do introductory essays/blog posts about their family
>>> members and pets.  I call it the Это моя собака.  Его зовут Кинг.
>>> dilemma.
>>>
>>> I'd love a variety of opinions about when you would and when you
>>> would not specify the masculine gender of your pet.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Emily
>>>
>>> On Oct 26, 2013, at 9:50 PM, Irina Shevelenko wrote:
>>>
>>>        
>>>> The conversation might go this way:
>>>>
>>>> -- Это твоя собака? Как *ее* зовут?
>>>> -- Макс, это кобель (мальчик).
>>>> -- Сколько *ему* лет?
>>>> -- Три.
>>>>
>>>> In the household, the dog will go by name and will always be
>>>> referred to with gender-appropriate personal and possessive pronouns.
>>>>
>>>> Irina
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: SEELANGS: Slavic&  East European Languages and Literatures
>>>> list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Emily Saunders
>>>> Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2013 4:58 PM
>>>> To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>>>> Subject: [SEELANGS] Question of gender and pets
>>>>
>>>> Hello!
>>>>
>>>> I'm about to introduce noun gender and pet vocabulary to my
>>>> Beginning Russian students and I'm preparing for the inevitable
>>>> question that will follow -- "If my dog is a boy and собака is
>>>> feminine, do I say вот она, or её зовут, or..."
>>>>
>>>> And I've never been able to get an entirely satisfactory answer to
>>>> the question of what you do when the default vocabulary word for a
>>>> pet is feminine, but the actual pet is a male.  So hypothetically
>>>> someone is asking about the name of your boy-собака:  Как её зовут?
>>>> How do you respond?  Is there any etiquette to correct the gender
>>>> assumption.  Do you treat your male-собака as grammatically feminine?
>>>>
>>>> I'd love a smattering of advice in how this is handled?  In English
>>>> if someone asked about my male cat:  What's her name?  I'd respond
>>>> simply, "His name is Jack."  Does the same hold true in Russian?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance!
>>>>
>>>> Emily Saunders
>>>>
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