perfect tense

Fri Sep 12 10:52:56 UTC 2014

Hello,

I wrote rather hastily my previous post.
But the words "чувствовать себя уставшим" renders 405 000 hits in Google.
"чувствовать усталость" some 41000.
They refer to a physical state.

To me, «вчера вечером я устал» means either « Yesterday evening I got tired », or « I was (very) tired, I felt tired [and I did not do any+++++++thing else] »

So far I cannot find a better Russian expression for «я болше не могу» (I’am exhausted) о крайней усталости.

Or «Я так устал, что уснул не раздевшись».

«Усталый» should be used as an adjective : «чего у тебя такой усталый вид?»

Philippe

De : SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] De la part de Terry Moran
Envoyé : vendredi 12 septembre 2014 11:33
À : SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Objet : Re: [SEELANGS] perfect tense

Разумеется, что разные части речи (глагол / имя прилагательное). Но отличаются ли мои вопросы (Вы устали? Вы усталы?) даже тончайшим образом по значению?

And as for it being 'better' to use the long form of the adjective, doesn't that imply permanence, a characteristic rather than a temporary state?

Ищу просвещения!

Terry

On 12 September 2014 09:03, Alex S <a_strat at hotmail.com<mailto:a_strat at hotmail.com>> wrote:
Лучше использовать полную, а не краткую форму (по аналогии с единственным числом:

Вы усталыЕ (?) (я усталаЯ, ты усталыЙ)

но "устали" и "усталые" - это разные части речи.

On 12/09/2014 11:41, Terry Moran wrote:
Another thought on устал. Are both these questions OK?

Вы устали?

Вы усталы?

If not, why not? If so, is there a scintilla of difference between them (and, obviously, what is it) or are they absolutely identical? In theory, I suppose, one focuses on the process and the other on the condition, but is there any difference in practice? Both would surely be Are you tired? in English.

And another one: are there any other words with parallel origins, i.e. an adjectival form that appears to come from a verbal past tense? I can't think of any offhand. Is there a special grammatical term that defines them (or it)?

Incidentally он был уставшим sounds to me less like something anybody would ever say than something Акакий Акакиевич might have written in a report - but maybe my Sprachgefühl is letting me down. Any thoughts? Linguee only comes up with a couple of hits.

Best -

Terry

On 12 September 2014 08:55, Gasan Gusejnov <gusejnov at gmail.com<mailto:gusejnov at gmail.com>> wrote:
It is a very good sentence for an excersise: please add the best context.

- что ж ты не пришел?
- я вчера устал.

In any language, I guess, sentences excerpted from a dialogue sometimes look incomplete, don't they. And that is what make them correct, real and alive.
Best
gg

On Thursday, 11 September 2014, Sentinel76 Astrakhan <thysentinel at hotmail.com<mailto:thysentinel at hotmail.com>> wrote:
It doesn't quite work like that.  Basically the sentence sounds incomplete.  You have to explain WHY you became tired:

Я вчера засиделся на работе и немного устал.

Also, for some reason, I don't remember ever hearing the word "устал" by itself.  It usually comes with an adverb:  "сильно", "немного", etc. or as part of a complex clause:

Караул устал и ушел с поста.

If used by itself, it's in the present tense:

Я устал!

Something like that.

Vadim

> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 12:31:15 -0400
> From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM<mailto:paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM>
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] perfect tense
> To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU<mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
>
> Sentinel76 Astrakhan wrote:
>
> > To me "вчера вечером я устал" sounds completely unnatural. The
> > proper way is "Вчера вечером я был усталым" or, colloquially, "вчера
> > вечером я был усталый".
>
> I took the past perfective to denote a change in state (from fresh to
> tired): "I became tired." This transition was complete at the stated
> time. No?
>
> The options you offer clearly denote an ongoing (imperfective) state of
> affairs, not the same thing.
>
> --
> War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
> --
> Paul B. Gallagher
> pbg translations, inc.
> "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
> http://pbg-translations.com
>
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