sky, turtle

[Koontz John E]

On Fri, 16 Feb 2001, Richard L. Dieterle wrote:

> The connection between WI ke, "sky," and ke, "turtle," is interesting.
> It could be that WI ke meant "the vaulted one."

I'm inclined to suspect that kee means 'turtle', and that if it is the
'turtle' word that appears in this alternate word for 'sky' then in that
context it means 'the (sky) turtle'.

> In one of the Redhorn Cycle myths, the sons of Redhorn go on the warpath
> against two spirit beings who live beyond the edge of the earth.  They
> have to cross the place where the sky meets the earth. They say that at
> this place a loud banging noise arises from the rocking sky-vault
> slamming against the rim of the earth.  This shows that at least some of
> the WI believed that the sky is a solid vault.

This seems like an interesting confirmation of the vault theory.

> However, Marino (from Radin's notes) says that ke may also mean "frog,"
> but a question mark is placed after it.  I have yet to see ke as "frog"
> attested.  One form for "frog" is wakaNaNshge (contemporary Wisc. WI),
> wakaNashke (Gatschet, Dorsey).

I think this is perhaps supposed to be wakaNnaN's^ge, cf. Teton
wagna's^ka, < PMV *wa-kraN's^-ka.  The -n- appears in the citation in
Miner.  This does look like a onomatopeic 'the one that (goes) kraNs^'.

> Another of the words for frog, toad is
> kewaxgu (contemporary WI, Lamere, Marino-Radin).

Miner gives it as 'toad', while Marino has it as 'frog' under ke.  I
wasn't able to find wakaNnaNs^ge in the Winnebago side of Marino, or an
entry for frog or toad in the English side.  I suspect this 'toad' form is
what accounts for the "frog ?" in the ke headword.

In Miner was^gu is given as 'to shell, v.tr., e.g., corn' (this wa- is the
instrumental *pa).  He cites -xku as 'to take off layers' (from Lipkind),
and xguuxguk as 'to be scaly'.  I'd gues kexgu means something like
'scaled or shelled turtle'.

JEK