Omaha-Ponca Long Vowls

[Koontz John E]

On Sun, 18 Mar 2001, ardis eschenberg wrote:
> I've been trying to think of non-verb long vowels, which would thus not
> necesarily be polymorphemic.

I suspect one could find verbal examples that didn't involve vowel
sequences.

> The other day in class we got moNhi khe paai.  'The knife is sharp.'

This is perhaps helpful because it is a widespread cognate set, involving
loss of intervocalic h in OP.

Da phe
OP ppai (not marking length) (perhaps also in MaNzEppe 'axe')
IO pha'hiN
Wi paahi'

There are various ways to approach the length in Winnebago.  One approach
might be to see it as a relict of historical initial stress, but one also
has to wonder why the form was originally initially stressed, and the
usual answer on that is to wonder if historically this stem might not have
had a long vowel in the initial syllable.  For some reason length is
slightly more perceivable in Winnebago than it has proved elsewhere.  One
obvious suggestion - it has certainly occurred to me - has been that Ken
Miner (working on Winnebago) is a somewhat better phonetician than, e.g.,
John Koontz.  I've been given to understand that length is not always that
easy to perceive in Winnebago, but I nevertheless feel a certain
embarasment on the whole subject.

The real questions are, of course, (a) is the length really there in
Omaha-Ponca, which seems to be the case, and (b) is it contrastive in
accented syllables and in non-accented syllables, omitting any possibility
of polymorphemic sequences.  It would suffice to be contrastive in one or
the other of accented and unaccented syllables, of course.  It wouldn't
have to be both, and it would be typical Siouan phonological perversity if
it weren't.  We might even want to be prepared for something like a length
contrast in accented initial syllables, but not in non-initial syllables,
accented or otherwise.

I think Kathy Shea has a few clear examples of a length contast in
accented syllables, but I haven't heard of any in unaccented syllables.

In passing, note the waffling on the nasality of the final vowel between
IO and Wi, an interesting issue.

> where the word for sharp was long and not just stressed.  Note that it was
> translated as singular and not plural so I don't think it's some kind of
> reduplication.

I think you can rule that out, but I'll be interested to see what the test
produces.

> I have an idea of how to get this in contrast...I'll try it
> this week.

Where do you pereceive stress, pitch, or whatever?