Omaha-Ponca Long Vowels

[Kathleen Shea]

Ardis, perhaps Omaha is different from Ponca.  I definitely hear a nasal
vowel in niNiNde 'ripe, done, cooked,' and it's easy (I think, anyway) to
hear a nasal vowel before a stop because of the homo-organic nasal consonant
that occurs epenthetically.  (Compare tade 'wind' and taNde 'ground.')  As
John points out, the initial consonant in the word for 'ripe' was "funny"
*R.  The idea that *R might have been a consonant cluster appeals to me, but
I'm not well-versed enough in Siouan historical linguistics to be able to
say why.  By the way, any of you Dhegihanists, would you say that the word
for 'gravy,' wanide (waniide  --?) in Omaha-Ponca, has the same root as the
word for 'ripe, cooked, done'?  Even if it does, it doesn't have a nasal
vowel in Ponca.

John, you mentioned the word naNzhiN 'hair' in Omaha-Ponca as historically
having an initial "funny" *R.  Did its homonyms naNzhiN 'to stand, standing'
and naNzhiN 'rain' begin with *R, too?

Kathy

----- Original Message -----
From: "Koontz John E" <John.Koontz at colorado.edu>
To: <siouan at lists.colorado.edu>
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 2:23 PM
Subject: Re: Omaha-Ponca Long Vowels


> On Mon, 19 Mar 2001, ardis eschenberg wrote:
> > Re: Kathy's long vowels:
> > I have gotten niNde for 'butt' and niide for 'ripe,' but I'll try
listening
> > again.  Hmmm...It's hard for me to hear nasalization after a nasal.  For
> > example, with the verb 'to be' bthiN 'I am' sounds very nasal but niN
'you
> > are' sounds just like assimilated nasality.
>
> For what it is worth, niide 'ripe' isn't historically nasal.  It's a
> "funny *R" word, corresponding to Osage cu'ce and Lakota luta 'red'.  I
> think Winnebago has duuc^.  The "funny R" words have a nasal reflex of the
> consonant "funny *R" in OP, but nowhere else.
>
> Note, of course, that what was true historically need not be the case
> today.  There's no reason why this or other n from funny *R words
> shouldn't be nasalized today.  In cases where the n precedes e or u < *o,
> one might not expect this (negi 'mother's brother', neghe 'pot', ne 'lake'
> (said to be Ponca only), nu 'man', 'nu 'potato'), but there are cases of
> *R before i, a, and *u > i, where nasalization could occur.  At the moment
> I'm not recalling the examples (other than 'ripe', of course).  I think
> 'ice' is nughe from *Roogh(e).  One of the various senses of naNzhiN may
> be an a-example - hair'?
>
> What does come to me is that *pr also behaves as *R in nouns in OP, e.g.,
> in nu 'man', and nu 'potato' compare Lakota bloka', blo, and ne 'lake',
> compare Dakota ble.  And the *pr can precede a nasal vowel, as in ni(N?)
> 'fluid, water, major river' compare Dakota mni.
>
> JEK
>
> P.S.  Sorry about typing vowel as vowl in the subject earlier.  See what I
> mean about me and vowel length?
>