reflexive vs. suus 'make'.

[R. Rankin]

The reason I included the statement [the only form I
have] in my posting is that there ought to be at least
two different forms at stake here: 'to make for
oneself' and 'to make ones own'.  They ought to have
different reflexes, but I'm not sure we're keeping them
straight in our discussion.

Bob

----- Original Message -----
From: Koontz John E <John.Koontz at colorado.edu>
To: Siouan List <siouan at lists.colorado.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 10:59 AM
Subject: RE: aspirated and unaspirated caga


> Except that, though these forms pattern alike in
Osage, they pattern
> differently in Omaha-Ponca:
>
> Dakotan          Omaha-Ponca     Osage
>
> kagha/kic^agha   gaghe/giaghe    gaghe/ks^ighe
'make'
>
> kuNza/kic^uNza   gaNze/giaNze    koNze/ks^ioNze
'demonstrate, teach'
>
> ya/khiya         dhe/khidhe      dhe/ks^idhe
causative
>
> It certainly looks like these forms have been
analogized to the causative
> pattern in Osage, and Bob's khiaNze in Kaw tends to
confirm this, showing
> that ks^ is *kh (the normal situation in Osage) and
not some special
> treatment of *ky (which was what I had actually been
thinking).  I'd have
> expected the Kaw form for 'to make' to be
khi(i/a)ghe, too, but since it
> isn't I wonder what's up there?
>
> OP and Da treat the causative as if the dative were
formed on a suppletive
> stem *hirE, handled as an h-stem.  Presumably the
same pattern was
> inherited in Osage.  I believe it occurs in Kaw and
Quapaw, too.  But,
> while Da africates (palatalized k after i) and OP
deletes the stem initial
> g (< *k), Osage and Kaw seem to have remodelled
things on a basis of the
> causative, substituting hiV for kV in the stem
underlying the dative.  I
> wonder if we have here some trace of the logic that
underlies the
> replacement of *ka by *ki in Ioway-Otoe and
Winnebago?
>
>
> On Mon, 12 Aug 2002, Carolyn Quintero wrote:
>
> > Off the top of my head, I think this is the same
phenomenon in Osage:
> > :
> > OS ki-ka:'ghe -> ks^i'ghe
> >  dative - make/do
> >
> > OS ki-hkoN'ze -> ks^i'oNze
> >   dative-teach
> >
> > OS ki -ki'dhe -> ks^i'dhe
> >   dat - cause to do  -> cause to do [? for that
person's own good]
> >
> > Carolyn
>