Attn. Dhegiha specialists.

Tue Aug 5 01:07:55 UTC 2003

Attn. Dhegiha specialists.I would have responded sooner, but for some reason I didn't receive any messages at my KU e-mail address until last Saturday when 75 messages on the Siouan list came through!  It took me a while to read them all.  I'll try to comment here on responses sent under the above heading and those under RE: any more chairs?, RE: a wish?, and so forth.

My first reaction, since we've recently had the dedication of the Dole Institure for Politics here on campus and Kansas symbols are fresh in my mind, was that the inscription might be an attempt to render the Kansas state motto (since 1877) into Kansa from Latin:  "ad astra per aspera," usually translated 'to the stars through difficulties.'  Of course, the Kansa version wouldn't have to have the word for "star" in it, but might mean something like "to the farthest reaches through striving."  Unfortunately, I'm in Lawrence, Kansas, at the moment, and my copy of La Flesche's Osage dictionary is in Ponca City, along with most of my other Dhegiha materials.  The only resource I have at hand is Fletcher and La Flesche's _The Omaha Tribe_.  This morning I did call my 90-year-old Ponca language consultant, Uncle Parrish, who had just gottten back to his home in Oklahoma from a trip.  I spelled out the syllables of the inscription to him, which he painstakingly wrote down, and then I tried to pronounce it to him in various ways, without it resulting in his being able to recognize very much.  He did remark that we Poncas would say "maNthiN" instead of "maNniN."  (I told him that the words could be Kansa, Osage, or Omaha-Ponca, since we think that La Flesche himself or his writing system had probably been the source for the writing.)  Naturally, it was very difficult for us to hear well and to communicate about this over the phone.

I'll try to address some of the comments raised earlier.  Yes, the "TH" indicates that at least some of the inscription must be Omaha-Ponca or Osage, which I understand has edh intervocalically and word-initially, as in the Osage /kkodha/ 'friend' that Carolyn Quintero pointed out.  And, by the way, I have seen the word /kkodha/ (written "kola," as I recall) written in at least one Ponca song that was shown and played on tape to me several years ago by Henry Collins, a well-known Ponca singer and drum maker and a fluent (middle-aged) speaker of Ponca, who lives here in Lawrence.  He was the person who initially provided me with the contacts for my consultants in Oklahoma, giving me the names of four of his uncles.  He has been recording and writing down some of the Ponca songs for his children and, without my asking, just pulled them out to show me and play for me.  I remember remarking at the time on the word "kola" 'friend' and his telling me that it was an alternate word for /khaage/ that sometimes ocurs in Ponca songs.  Considering the fact that the Poncas are traditionally the singers for the Osages at their dances even today, and that the Osages received (some Poncas say stole!) their Ilonshka ceremonial dance from the Poncas (from the Ponca Hethushka), it's not surprising that /kkodha/ occurs in Ponca songs.  Although I haven't visited with him recently, I think Uncle Henry (Collins) might be a knowlegeable person to ask about this inscription.  Speaking of songs, I noticed that many of the songs written in _The Omaha Tribe_ are addressed to a group, in the second person plural.  It makes me wonder if the inscription could be a quote from a well-known song, or even Curtis's family song, if he had one.  In that case, the word "MO-NI" could have the second person reading 'you walk.'  On the other hand, I have observed that [dh] sometimes alternates with [n] in the pronunciation of /dh/ in Ponca speech, although the only example I can think of right now might exemplify a difference between Ponca and Omaha pronunciation, as in the word for the trickster /is^tinikhe/ (Ponca) versus /is^tidhiNkhe/ (Omaha).  And by the way, I have never heard /s^/ or /h/ before n in r-stem verbs pronounced as the realization of a second-person prefix or before /naN/ and  /namaN/, the habitual marker, in modern Ponca, as also John Koontz says he hasn't in Omaha.

The main issue that I would like to raise is why we haven't considered the possibility that "C" could be La Flesche's c-cedilla without the cedilla (to look more "American"?) and so could ambiguously represent /s/ or /z/, as La Flesche does consistently in _The Omaha Tribe_ and elsewhere (e.g., in ",ci" for  both /si/ 'foot' and /zi/ 'yellow'), despite his saying in the "Phonetic Guide" in the opening pages that c-cedilla "has the sound of th in thin."  I'm not prepared to say what meaning a reading of "C" as /s/ or /z/ would give the inscription, but, if we don't have to interpret "C" as the lax stop written "G," we are free to assume that the two "K's" represent lax stops, rather than inconsistently reading the first "K" as tense (as it would have to be if the word is /kkodha/ 'friend') and the second "K" as lax (more likely than if it were the tense stop of the first-person form /kkobdha/ 'I want, wish' if the verb in the inscription is in fact /koNdha/, inflected with the plural/proximate ending /i/.  I'm somewhat hampered by not being able to refer to La Flesche's Osage dictionary, but as Carolyn has pointed out, he does use "g" in the dictionary for the (unvoiced) lax velar stop in Osage and "k" with a dot underneath for the tense velar stop.  La Flesche inconsistently represents the tense stops of Osage in _The Omaha Tribe_, where he doesn't use subscript dots (with the exception of one place that John noticed?), for example, /kk/ as "k" in "WakoN'da" ('God') on page 65 and "gk" in "Gka'washiNka" 'Little horse' (a personal name) on page 64, unless I haven't noticed a consistent pattern for his written Osage.

As far as the length of the first stem vowel in Osage /koNdha/ (Ponca "gaNaNtha" ' to wish, want, desire,' or in one instance, 'to try to become' as in, "Gini gaNaNtha(a)!"  'Try to get better!' (imperative, female speech), written in the practical orthography adopted by the Ponca Nation), I think that it probably is long (/oNoN/).  At least it is in the Ponca counterpart, I would say.  John raised this question about length.  I've been transcribing some stories recently, and in all the person forms, most of which have the accent on the first--or stem--syllable, I seem to hear a long vowel.  Even in the I-you form, where the accent shifts to the portmanteau person prefix /wi-/, I think I hear a long /aNaN/:  /wi'kkaNaNbdha/.  However, in the inclusive form that occurs in one of the stories, I definitely hear a long vowel:  /aNgaNaN'dhai/ 'we want.'  This could be explained by the presence of an infixed inclusive person marker /aN-/ in this doubly inflecting verb, which I think is present, but even in the third person, where the accent often shifts to the following stem vowel in verbs, it remains on the first, as shown in John's example using /gaNaN'dha/ of a type 1 g-stem active verb at his website under "Morphology," an indication that the first stem vowel is long, having "attracted" the accent:  gaN'=dha=i  'he/she heard it' (sic).

A few stray thoughts that I had were that the two "KO's" could be a deictic or a discourse marker, such as gaN, and that "-SHE" might be the /-s^e/ that occurs after second-person plural verbs in Ponca, Kansa, and I guess the other Dhegiha languages.  I'm afraid, though that my ruminations don't bring us any closer to a meaning for the inscription.  I just thought I'd offer my observations.

Kathy
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Rankin, Robert L 
  To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 3:49 PM
  Subject: Attn. Dhegiha specialists.

  I have received the appended request from one of the curators for the U.S. 
  Senate to translate an inscription he believes to be in the Kaw language. 
  It includes a photograph of the inscription, which is on a chair presented 
  to Charles Curtis when he was Vice President of the United States from 
  1929-1933.  Curtis was part Kaw.  I hope the Colorado listserver permits 
  photo attachments.  If it doesn't come through and you'd like a copy, let me 
  know. 

  I thought I'd give all of you a crack at it.  I'll be trying to translate it 
  as well.  It's pretty clearly written in a Dhegiha dialect.  It may be Kaw, 
  but written down by someone using the Osage dictionary as a source (since 
  there was no Kaw dictionary, Osage would be the closest source of lexicon in 
  published form).  It looks as though it has "TH" where Kaw would have [y] 
  (both now and in the 1800's).  You'll want to look at the photo rather than 
  the curator's rendering of it, as someone has scratched in a small, raised 
  "n" above a vowel to indicate nasalization.  It's easily visible near the 
  top.  In other instances, a syllable-final <n> is written for nasalization. 
  Whoever wrote it pretty clearly had access to La Flesche's Osage Dictionary, 
  as they write "real" as /xtsi/. 

  Any ideas appreciated.  Naturally, I'll share credit where credit is due 
  when I send in my rendering. 

  Bob 

  -----Original Message----- 
  From: Doerner, Rich (Secretary) 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 10:15 AM 
  To: Rankin at KU.EDU 
  Subject: Translation 

  Dear Mr. Robert Rankin: 

  Ms. Virginia Wulfkuhle, Public Archeologist at Kansas, recommended that I 
  write to you.  I am the Museum Specialist in the Office of Senate Curator 
  conducting research on a chair presented to Vice President Charles Curtis. 
  I am interested in translating the following Native American Indian (Kaw ?) 
  word(s) that appear on a circular medallion in the center of the backrest on 
  the carved walnut chair.  The letters may be out of order.  I have enclosed 
  a digital image of the medallion for your translation.. 

  KO-THA-U-CA-SHE / THI-CE-XTSI MO-NI / KO-ON-THAIHA-IN 

  In addition to the above, the chair is also inscribed "From the Original 
  Curtis Boys and Matthew Quay Glaser".  I am reading numerous books on 
  Curtis, reviewing New York Times articles, and conducting research at the 
  Library of Congress to  learn more about them.  

  THANK YOU in advance for any help you may be able to provide. 

  Richard Doerner 
  Museum Specialist 
  Office of the Senate Curator 
  Room S-411, U.S. Capitol Building 
  Washington, D.C.  20510-7102 

   <<jpg chair.JPG>> 

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