More "ablaut".

[Rory M Larson]

Bob wrote:
> Diachronically too, I think.  When I said that the
> so-called "ablauting" vowel could be a morpheme, I
> didn't mean "now":  I meant something like a couple of
> thousand years ago.  Now, the "ablauting" /-a/ is
> pretty clearly associated with just 3 or 4
> suffixes/enclitics including 'imperative', 'plural' and
> 'negative' (and may always have been).

I think we're all in agreement on this.  If it seemed
that I was claiming an ablauting /-a/ particle for
modern OP, then I wasn't writing very clearly.


>  I didn't mean
> to open the door to bringing back discussions of the
> "meaning" of ablaut and segmenting *-api as just -pi.
> In Mississippi Valley Siouan I regard such discussions
> as "Dakota-centric" and essentially behind us unless
> data of the following sort can be clearly isolated
> (preferably in volunteered, not elicited, speech).
>
> Instances in which the *same verb* with the *same
> plural, imperative or negative enclitic/suffix* can be
> seen to have different readings with -e than with -a
> between the root and the clitic/suffix.  I think
> keeping all other variables constant is essential to
> proof because other verbs offer different phonological
> environments and, just as important, different
> opportunities for analogical restructuring.

That would certainly be the gold standard.  I wonder
though if you would be willing to bend the *same verb*
rule just a little bit here.  What if we find a
systematic alternation of -e vs. -a grade ablaut
with the same enclitic/suffix, according to the
semantic class of the preceding verb?

Specifically, I'm thinking of the Winnebago 3rd
plural suffix =ire.  This apparently conditions
a-grade ablaut after active verbs ending in -e,
as /xe/ + /=ire/ => /xaire/.  I have the sense,
however, that this does not hold for stative
verbs.  Thus, if a verb /###e/ is stative, we
should get /###e/ + /=ire/ => /###eire/.  I'm
not sure yet if this is a solid rule or not.
It's possible that the one word I've seen in
that format was a specialized international term
that was incorporated whole without ablauting
simply because ablauting was no longer a
productive rule.  I'm hoping the Hocank
specialists can give us a definite answer on
this question.  (Johannes Helmbrecht has been
very generous with his help to a Hocank tyro
already!)

Rory