Colors in Dakota

[Kathleen Shea]

The Ponca speakers I know pronounce the word for 'cooked, ripe, done' with a
long nasal vowel:  /niNiNde/.  This word forms a minimal pair with the word
/niNde/ 'a person's backside, buttocks.'  A similar minimal pair with nasal
vowels is /naNaNde/ 'heart' and /naNde/ 'inside perimeter of a tent, inside
wall.'

On the subject of 'green/blue' (dubbed 'grue' I think by Bob), there seems
to be what might be a productive process in Ponca of using the contrast
between /c^/ (a marginal phoneme that developed historically from the
palatalization of /t/ if I'm not wrong) and /t/ for distinguishing "baby
talk" from adult speech and also for creating words of slightly different
meaning that are similar in form.  For example, I'm told by my 90-year-old
consultant that 'blue' is /tu/ and 'green' is /c^u/, although I'm not
convinced that there's general agreement on this among Ponca speakers.  The
same speaker distinguishes /maNs^c^iNge/ 'rabbit' from /maNs^tiNge/
'jackrabbit' (as I recall), illustrating another example of /t/ contrasting
with /c^/.

Kathy Shea

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rory M Larson" <rlarson at unlnotes01.unl.edu>
To: <siouan at lists.colorado.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 7:29 PM
Subject: RE: Colors in Dakota



Thanks, Bob!

I think Dorsey actually records the word for 'cooked' as niNde.
I suppose the nasalization here would be bleeding in from the
initial 'n'?  (There seems to be an odd reversal in nasal/oral
vowels following a nasal consonant: Dorsey /miN/ and /niN/
often seem to be /mi/ and /ni/ in modern Omaha, while Dorsey
/ma/ and /na/ are often /moN/ and /noN/ in the modern language.
Our speakers are pretty emphatic about the pronunciation here.)

If La. luta is cognate to OP nide, is there also any known
Dakotan cognate to OP zhide?

Is it possible that nide and zhide are alternates of an original
'red' pair, in the way that sabe and shabe are alternates of a
'black' pair, and zi and zhi are alternates of a 'yellow' pair?

Rory





                      "Rankin, Robert L"
                      <rankin at ku.edu>             To:
"'siouan at lists.colorado.edu'"
                      Sent by:
<siouan at lists.colorado.edu>
                      owner-siouan at lists.c        cc:
                      olorado.edu                 Subject:  RE: Colors in
Dakota


                      03/25/2003 04:26 PM
                      Please respond to
                      siouan






"Good" comparativist might be asking a little much, but I think Dakotan
luta
is cognate with the Dhegiha terms for 'ripe, cooked' rather than 'red'
despite the meaning.  At least that's where the sound correspondences fit
best.  The semantics leaves something to be desired, but it isn't
unreasonable.  The Chiwere/Winn. cognates also are in the 'cooked, ripe'
group.     Bob

Dakotan:                                     luta                        <
'red'
Omaha:                                     waníde                        <
'something cooked'
Ponca:                                     waníde                        <
'something cooked'
Kansa:                               wajüje                  <  'something
cooked'
Osage:                               wacüce                  <  'something
cooked'
Quapaw:                              watítte                 <  'something
cooked'


-----Original Message-----
From: Rory M Larson [mailto:rlarson at unlnotes01.unl.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 1:13 PM
To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu
Subject: Re: Colors in Dakota



> I have never been able to get anyone to tell me the difference between
sha
> and luta for 'red', however, except to say that "luta" is restricted
> to ceremonial contexts and/or names.

While we're on the subject, could I get some good comparativist to tell me
if Lakhota "luta" is equivalent to OP "zhide"?  They both mean 'red', and
everything else matches except that I don't recall any other cases of
Lakhota 'l' equating to OP 'zh'.

Rory