Colors in Dakota
Rankin, Robert L
rankin at ku.edu
Wed Mar 26 18:00:20 UTC 2003
It's really interesting how the nasalization is working out. 'Ripe, cooked'
should have an oral vowel because that /n/ comes from a "funny R", not a
common Dhegiha /n/, whereas 'butt' should have a nasal V historically.
Denasalization of vowels following /m/ and /n/ is pretty common across lots
of Siouan dialects, so that part doesn't surprise. But nasalization of
vowels following neo-N from *R is unexpected IF earlier nasalization was
lost after m,n. BTW, I am not totally happy with the equation of 'ripe,
cooked' with the Dakotan 'red' term; I suspect there may well be some cross
contamination from the *z^ute root. There is much we don't understand yet.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: Rory M Larson [mailto:rlarson at unlnotes01.unl.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 10:10 AM
To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu
Subject: Re: Colors in Dakota
The distinction between /naNaNde/, 'heart', and /naNde/, 'wall', was
recently pointed out to us by our Omaha speakers too. Their pronunciation
of the word for 'buttocks' is /nide/, with the first syllable denasalized,
as in /nidehiNshkube/, 'hairy butt', a term that Mark and some of our
students have been having way too much fun with. On the other hand, the
speakers seem to avoid using the term for 'cooked, ripe, done' at all, for
fear of confusion with the word for 'buttocks'. These pairs certainly show
the importance, as Bob has mentioned, of paying attention to vowel length.
We've also run into an example or two of the process of palatalizing a
dental stop to indicate first baby talk, then diminutivization (word?), and
finally a related but semantically distinct term. Kathy's examples are from
/t/ => /c^/, but /d/ => /j^/ also occurs. Notably, we have /uudoN/, 'good',
vs. /uuj^oN/, 'pretty, beautiful'. Dorsey does not make this distinction,
but our speakers are emphatic about the difference. Also, in the
Stabler-Swetland dictionary, the word for 'dog' is /shiNnuda/, while the
word for 'puppy' is /shiNnuj^a zhiNga/. I think our speakers have denied,
however, that I can get away with referring to a puppy simply as
/shiNnuj^a/.
The phenomenon occurs in Dorsey too; I think John refers to this as
"Grandmother speech". One of the most striking variants of this is in the
story of how the Rabbit killed the giant. The giant's name was
/Tax^ti-gikhidabi/, 'He-for-whom-they-shoot-deer'. But when they are
squaring off for their fight and insulting each other, the Rabbit addresses
him as /Tax^ti-gikhij^abi-a!/-- apparently disparaging his adversary by
speaking to him as if he were just a little boy!
Rory
"Kathleen Shea"
<kdshea at ku.edu> To:
<siouan at lists.colorado.edu>
Sent by: cc:
owner-siouan at lists.c Subject: Re: Colors in
Dakota
olorado.edu
03/26/2003 12:37 AM
Please respond to
siouan
The Ponca speakers I know pronounce the word for 'cooked, ripe, done' with a
long nasal vowel: /niNiNde/. This word forms a minimal pair with the word
/niNde/ 'a person's backside, buttocks.' A similar minimal pair with nasal
vowels is /naNaNde/ 'heart' and /naNde/ 'inside perimeter of a tent, inside
wall.'
On the subject of 'green/blue' (dubbed 'grue' I think by Bob), there seems
to be what might be a productive process in Ponca of using the contrast
between /c^/ (a marginal phoneme that developed historically from the
palatalization of /t/ if I'm not wrong) and /t/ for distinguishing "baby
talk" from adult speech and also for creating words of slightly different
meaning that are similar in form. For example, I'm told by my 90-year-old
consultant that 'blue' is /tu/ and 'green' is /c^u/, although I'm not
convinced that there's general agreement on this among Ponca speakers. The
same speaker distinguishes /maNs^c^iNge/ 'rabbit' from /maNs^tiNge/
'jackrabbit' (as I recall), illustrating another example of /t/ contrasting
with /c^/.
Kathy Shea
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rory M Larson" <rlarson at unlnotes01.unl.edu>
To: <siouan at lists.colorado.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 7:29 PM
Subject: RE: Colors in Dakota
Thanks, Bob!
I think Dorsey actually records the word for 'cooked' as niNde. I suppose
the nasalization here would be bleeding in from the initial 'n'? (There
seems to be an odd reversal in nasal/oral vowels following a nasal
consonant: Dorsey /miN/ and /niN/ often seem to be /mi/ and /ni/ in modern
Omaha, while Dorsey /ma/ and /na/ are often /moN/ and /noN/ in the modern
language. Our speakers are pretty emphatic about the pronunciation here.)
If La. luta is cognate to OP nide, is there also any known Dakotan cognate
to OP zhide?
Is it possible that nide and zhide are alternates of an original 'red' pair,
in the way that sabe and shabe are alternates of a 'black' pair, and zi and
zhi are alternates of a 'yellow' pair?
Rory
"Rankin, Robert L"
<rankin at ku.edu> To:
"'siouan at lists.colorado.edu'"
Sent by:
<siouan at lists.colorado.edu>
owner-siouan at lists.c cc:
olorado.edu Subject: RE: Colors in
Dakota
03/25/2003 04:26 PM
Please respond to
siouan
"Good" comparativist might be asking a little much, but I think Dakotan luta
is cognate with the Dhegiha terms for 'ripe, cooked' rather than 'red'
despite the meaning. At least that's where the sound correspondences fit
best. The semantics leaves something to be desired, but it isn't
unreasonable. The Chiwere/Winn. cognates also are in the 'cooked, ripe'
group. Bob
Dakotan: luta <
'red'
Omaha: waníde <
'something cooked'
Ponca: waníde <
'something cooked'
Kansa: wajüje < 'something
cooked'
Osage: wacüce < 'something
cooked'
Quapaw: watítte < 'something
cooked'
-----Original Message-----
From: Rory M Larson [mailto:rlarson at unlnotes01.unl.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 1:13 PM
To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu
Subject: Re: Colors in Dakota
> I have never been able to get anyone to tell me the difference between
sha
> and luta for 'red', however, except to say that "luta" is restricted
> to ceremonial contexts and/or names.
While we're on the subject, could I get some good comparativist to tell me
if Lakhota "luta" is equivalent to OP "zhide"? They both mean 'red', and
everything else matches except that I don't recall any other cases of
Lakhota 'l' equating to OP 'zh'.
Rory
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