WA- once more.

[Carolyn Q.]

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Carolyn Q." <cqcqcq1 at earthlink.net>
> > I don't find any difference in Osage between wa-  'us' and wa- 'them'.

Carolyn says:

LaFlesche's data is wrong according to everything I have from speakers.
John, in your examples below, and I've numbered them:
1.  the form for P1p (or "P12") would be with wa only, not wa-i-a> wea.
2.  in this one you haven't given the P3p to compare with P1p, but both
should be wa as you have shown for P12.
3.  these are waa'zo in both P1p and P3p
4.  this should be wa in P12.  Some verbs do vary in P3p only, between ki
and wa, and this one appears to have ki for P3, not surprisingly.
5., 6., 7. group with 2., should be wa for P1p.

Some of the verbs listed here I don't have, but I have scores with the same
pattern of patient pronominals, and never any with awa in P1p, always wa.

There are hundreds if not thousands of errors in the LaFlesche dictionary,
some as systematic as this one seems to be.  Take, for example, forms with
n- (ne, sni, sne, etc) in A2s, which are likely Omaha, since such forms
never existed in Osage, but are found throughout the LF dictionary.

Is the P1p form in Omaha wa-a or awa?

Carolyn
********************
John said:

1. Well, it's LaFlesche, but i'pize ("i'-bi-c,e") 'thirsty'

P1 oNdhoN'pize
P2 i'dhipize
P12 wea'piza=i   (Note wea'- < wa-i-a-)

This is the onlyi-locative example offered outright in the dicitonary that
I have noticed.  Forms with different objects tend not to occur.


2. However, as I said, datives are a bit different in Osage, and the pattenr
there features regular, but accented pronominals alternating with ki' in
the third person, rather like the ka-instrumental forms, except those have
ka- in the third person.  Omaha-Ponca's fusions of the pronominals with
dative (g)i- do not occur.

ki'pakkoN ("gi'-ba-k.oN") 'angry'

P1 oN'pakkoN
P2 dhi'pakkoN
P12 wa'pakkoN=i

3. ki'zu ("gi'-c,u") 'happy'

P1 oN'zu
P2 dhi'zu
P12 wa'zu=i

4. As far as the -a-wa- pattern:


e'kippi?oN ("e-gi-p.i=oN") 'accustomed to, used to'

P1  e'=    ki-p- pi-m- oN
P2  e'=    ki-s^-pi-z^-oNTher
P3  e'=    kip-  pi-   oN
P12 e'=awa-kip-  pi-   oN

This is what I call a fun verb.

5. hni'=...cce ("hni'-t.se") 'cold'

P1 hni=oN-cce
P2 hni'=dhi'-cce
P12 hni=a-wa-cca=i

6. oaNppe=...hi ("noN-p.e'-hi") 'hungry'

P1 noN'ppe=oNhi
P2 noN'ppe=dhehi [sic, for dhihi?]
P12 noN'ppe=awahi=i

7. Osage Rituals

s^a'pe=awadhe 'dark he-makes-us'