Padouca

[Koontz John E]

On Thu, 28 Apr 2005, Rory M Larson wrote:
> The /pa/ part would probably be 'head', or 'nose'.  The "douca' part
> might be Osage duka, 'wet', or doNka, 'short and stubby, like a bear's
> tail'.  (La Flesche Osage dictionary)  I don't know if that is what
> John has in mind for his suggested gloss 'round'; I don't recognize it
> otherwise.  John?

Yep, something like ppatoNkka.  But that could amount to forcing an
unrecognized [paduka] or [padoka] into a recognizable shape and
transparent etymology, like English crayfish < French ecrevisse.  Over the
years we've seen a number of similar processes in contemporary Siouan
languages as people struggle to explain various obscure terms.  Nature
abhors a vaccuum, and we her children abhor opaque words.

The thing to bear in mind is that once a term was in circulation in
French and later English, it could be reintroduced from French (or
English) into Siouan and Algonquian languages.

In short, there is no secure etymology for Padouca (or for Pawnee).

I checked the HBNAI synonymy for Comanche (by Doug Parks) and he's pretty
definite (with references) about Padouca referring to Apache, even after
the Commanche first appear, though usage is complex.  The time frame
for the shift is later than I recalled, after c. 1750, so after fairly
good Miami-Illinois materials were available, though, as I understand it
now, the term is attested for MI only in modern times.

I did wonder if it might be possible to make something of Osage ppadoNkka
'stubby head' and some of the other attested terms for the Comanche that
Doug lists, including 'bald heads' (in French) and thahiN (deer hair) (in
Dakota).  Perhaps these are all reference to a particular way of cutting
the hair, a sort of crew cut?  I've never heard of anything like that,
however.