Padouca

[Rory M Larson]

John wrote:
> I checked the HBNAI synonymy for Comanche (by Doug Parks) and he's pretty
> definite (with references) about Padouca referring to Apache, even after
> the Commanche first appear, though usage is complex.  The time frame
> for the shift is later than I recalled, after c. 1750, so after fairly
> good Miami-Illinois materials were available, though, as I understand it
> now, the term is attested for MI only in modern times.

I seem to recall that the Plains Apache were pushed out and replaced
by the Commanche at some point, but I couldn't remember quite when.
I take it that happened about 1750?

However, this information makes it a little harder to interpret the
item given earlier by Alan:

> SOMEbody used the name a lot earlier: in the first decade of the 18c. we
> have French Panetonka and Panetoca, and in 1718 "Pays des Apaches et des
> Padoucas".

Apparently Padoucas were distinguished from Apaches as early as 1718.
Would these have been separate tribes of Apache speakers at that time?

Also, we've been discussing the "Padouca" term from the east so far.
What about the southwest?  Did the Spanish record any such name?

Rory