FEELINGS (Abstract Notions)

[Rankin, Robert L]

The prefix related to IOM gi- 'by striking' is Dakotan ka-.  
 
I'm going to stick my neck out and plunk for a meaning derived from the reflexive, not the instrumental (which has the wrong vowel).  It would help if everyone contributing to this discussion marked aspiration unequivocally.  Using the practical spelling system increases the liklihood of non-cognate comparisons and mistakes.  Is the the Dakotan ki- that we're talking about ki- or khi-?
 
I guess I'd tend to think of "to become a snake" as something approximately like 'to be-snake onself' = reflexive.  I guess I'd better check and see what I have for these in Dhegiha.
 
Bob

________________________________

From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Jimm GoodTracks
Sent: Mon 12/10/2007 7:39 AM
To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu
Subject: Re: FEELINGS (Abstract Notions)


Perhaps I missed it, as to this prefix "ki-" in L/Dakota.  Below,  it is said that it's "in the sence of 'become'/ 'turn to'".  So then, is it an instrumental prefix or is it a reflexsive element??   If a reflexive, which is the same element for reflexive in IOM, I can see how it able to effect the meanings and conotations below.  If it is an instrumental, ....I'll further understanding, as the equivalent in IOM is "gi-" indicating the action is accomplished by means of an instrument.
Jimm

	----- Original Message ----- 
	From: shokooh Ingham <mailto:shokoohbanou at yahoo.co.uk>  
	To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu 
	Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 6:47 AM
	Subject: Re: FEELINGS (Abstract Notions)

	I know kimathathanka 'turn into a buffalo', kizuzeca 'turn into a snake', kiwitko 'go mad', kiwanice 'turn into nothing' and kiwe 'turn into blood'; a very useful prefix.  You can also use ic'icag^a/mic'icag^e 'make oneself into', but I think that is more conscious, whereas the first is non-intentional perhaps.
	Bruce
	
	""Alfred W. Tüting"" <ti at fa-kuan.muc.de> wrote: 

		> Fascinating examples from Clive.  The use of a- to mean 'more than' is an interesting one in Lakota.  It seems to be not totally productive and is a bit illusive, but one sees examples of it.  I have  a feeling that it is more frequent in Dakota, but can't think on what basis I have this feeling.  Does anyone else have this impression?
		Bruce <  
		
		
		
		
		It's my impression that with regard to productiveness, it's maybe comparable to the use of ki- (in the sense of "become", "turn to") e.g. kiaguyapi (to turn into bread). Does anyone happen to know of other renderings like "turn into stone" (petrify) or such??
		
		
		Alfred
		
		
		""Alfred W. Tüting"" <ti at fa-kuan.muc.de> wrote: 

			> "LochiNpi kiN he iyes^ akhiphapi kta thawat'elyapi na iyoks^ica uNpi 
			> kiN he e athawat'elyapi s^ni kiN hecha."
			
			> [=As for themselves, they preferred facing hunger,
			to living in 
			> sadness (i.e. loneliness) - such were their (feelings) or 'such was 
			> their situation'.]
			> (lit. : they felt willing to face the prospect of hunger, and they 
			> did not feel a greater willingness to be living in desolation - 
			> that's the way it was). 
			
			
			
			
			(LoÄ<inpi kin he iyeṡ aḱip'a pi kta ṫawat'elya pi na
			iyokiṡica un pi kin he e
			aṫawat'elya pi ṡni kin héÄ<a.)
			
			
			(...)
			
			
			BTW, I like your reading of a-ṫawat'elyA <- a-waṡte (better than), it's very
			convincing.
			
			
			Alfred


	
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