Lakota ki- 'to become by itself'

[Rankin, Robert L]

Throughout much of Mississippi Valley Siouan and all of the Dhegiha *ni-skudhe (water+sweet) is 'salt', and in Ohio Valley Siouan it is often from *ma-skure (earth+sweet).  So we have 'sweet', 'salty' and 'sour' all using the same root.  
 
Bob

________________________________

From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of ROOD DAVID S
Sent: Tue 12/11/2007 12:03 AM
To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu
Subject: Re: Lakota ki- 'to become by itself'



Clive, thanks for this interesting list.  I had forgotten about "ki-skuya
'become sweet'", but I'm reminded of a very odd additional meaning for
that word: 'to become sour, of milk'.  My personal semantic space does not
equate the taste of sour milk with the sensation I would identify as
"sweet".  Does anyone understand how this might work?

David S. Rood
Dept. of Linguistics
Univ. of Colorado
295 UCB
Boulder, CO 80309-0295
USA
rood at colorado.edu

On Tue, 11 Dec 2007, Clive Bloomfield wrote:

> Thanks for the enchanting discussion, folks!
>
> Regarding Regina's first category, one notes with fascination that ki-ska, in
> addition to that literal sense, (mentioned by Regina below), of 'turn
> white/bleach(intr.)' may also (accdg. to Buech.-Md. 2002) have the useful
> metaphorical meaning of : 'to recover common sense'! B&D (p. 88; Sect.101)
> also record meaning of : " 'to fade'('to return to an original white colour')
> "
> ki-bleza, as well as meaning 'become conscious'-->'regain consciousness'
> (?)/'come to' (?), may (B-Md.s.v.) have the obviously kindred signification
> of : 'to sober up'/to recover from drunkenness' ['to become mentally clear
> again'/'to regain mental clarity')].
> There are also :
>
> ki-chepa              : 'to become fat again' ('wakíchepa wi' June, moon of
> things getting fat again)
> ki-gnas^kiNyaN : 'to turn crazy'; [Buech. BH]
> ki-sagye              : 'to turn into a cane/rod' [Buech. BH]
> ki-saN                  : Interestingly, glossed in Buech.-Md. as : 'to turn
> whitish FOR one'
>                              (Might this be a clue to origins as some sort
> of variant of B&D's "first" Dative, I wonder?)
> ki-sapA                : 'to become black (or 'bare') again' "as does the
> ground by the disappearance of snow" [Buech.-Md].
>
>
> Boas & Deloria's 1941 "Dakota Grammar", has the following, at Section 101.
> p.88 :
>
> "The Use of 'ki-' for Back Again"
>
> "A peculiar use of ki- is probably reducible to the dative ki- "........."A
> number of other forms which render the idea of return to a previous state are
> expressed by forms corresponding to the first dative ki-m with first person
> waki-."
>
> Pace  B&D, but I note that native-speaker Ivan STARR, ("Lakota Eyapaha",
> 1996), in his humane essay about ongoing traumatization of returning Lakota
> Vietnam vets "Vietnam Okicize Kin : Nahanhci Wokakije Wan Inyanke" [=The
> Vietnam Conflict : the Ordeal Continues Still] (pp.35-37), writes, with
> affecting pathos :
>
> "NahahNci hoks^ilapi eyas^ wicas^a thawichoh^'aN waN inila iyapi na echuNpi.
> Lila oh^'ankhoya kiwichas^api."
>
> "Even though they were still just boys, they were sent to do a man's job, and
> they did just that, without complaint (lit.: speaking silently). They became
> men too quickly."
>
> Starr's English version : "They were still young boys yet they were sent to
> do a man's job which they did without complaining. They became men before
> their time." (p.37)
>
> In that context, imho, the verb there could scarcely mean : "they became men
> AGAIN." Perhaps, in the half-century or so, the verb had acquired a more
> diffuse, or generalized sense, in addition to the meaning of returning to the
> pre-existing state?  Any thoughts, friends?
>
>
>
> Rood & Taylor's Sketch supplies, (in their regrettably brief discussion of
> this suffix at Section 9.2.2.2.) :
>
> ki-skuyA             : 'to become sweet'
> ki-thaNka           : 'to grow old', (as opposed to : 'thaNka ayA' : 'to get
> big').
>
> R&T comment : "In most cases, ki- imparts a meaning of inevitable change into
> the state mentioned by the verb, change over which the referent has no
> control."
>
> Good wishes,
> Clive.
>
> P.S. : As a matter of general interest, Finnish seems to convey a similar
> idea nominally, being endowed with a nominal/adjectival case-ending called
> the Translative, one of whose functions is to denote entrance into, or
> attaining the end-point of changes of state. There is yet another
> noun-inflection to convey the state or temporary character of sthng/s.o.,
> christened, appropriately enough, the Essive!
> ['TY Finnish' 1956, A.H. Whitney, Less.10, (e) (i)(ii) & (f);  pp.129-130;
> "Finnish Gr."-Fred Karlsson, 1999, Ch.11, Sect. 49 & 50, pp. 123 -127. ]
>
> P.S. Thanks to Bruce, Alfred, and others for the interesting replies : I'm
> still thinking them over! :)
>
> On 11/12/2007, at 5:30 AM, REGINA PUSTET wrote:
>
>> Here's my two cents on ki- 'to become by itself', examples first, in random
>> order:
>>
>> ki-ska 'to turn white'
>> ki-sake   'to get hard, stiff'
>> ki-suta  'to get hard'
>> ki-wichas^a  'to have become a man, to have completed growing up'
>> ki-wiNyaN  'to have become a woman'
>> ki-thamahecha  'to get skinny'
>> ki-haNska  'to get tall'
>> ki-ksapa  'he got smart'
>> ki-luzahaN 'to get fast'
>> ki-bleza  'to become conscious'
>> ki-phaNs^phaNz^ela   'to get soft'
>> ki-ni 'to come back to life'
>> ki-'okhate  'to become warm inside, like when turning up the heat'
>>
>> ki-was^tecaka ye!  'behave yourself!'
>> pheta ki ki-sni 'the fire went dead/out (by itself)'
>> thaspaNzi ki ki-phaNs^phaNz^ela 'the orange has ripened'
>> wakhalapi ki ki-sni  'the coffee is cold/has gotten cold'
>>
>> There is a second usage of ki- with meteorological expressions, which,
>> however, is rendered by the slightly different translation 'to
>> become/happen suddenly, unexpectedly'. Is this still "the same" ki-? I'd
>> say at least this usage is close enough to the above ki- to postulate a
>> historical connection.
>>
>> ki-mag^az^u 'all of a sudden it rains, unexpectedly' (classed as an "old
>> word" by informant)
>> ki-mas^te 'the sun came out all of a sudden'
>> ki-wahiNhe  'all of a sudden it is snowing'
>>
>> The lexical productivity of ki- appears to be restricted. Statives are most
>> easily compatible with ki-, but by far not all of them are. For instance,
>> the following combinations are ungrammatical, among many others:
>> *ki-khate 'to get hot'
>> *ki-'owothaNla  'to get straight'
>>
>> It could be that ki- is actually completive, so that 'to have become by
>> itself' is a better translation. Since I inadvertently kicked this file out
>> of the "active" materials that needed double-checking with native speakers
>> years ago, I couldn't pursue this issue further. I hope that didn't happen
>> with too many of my grammar files!
>> As for Jimm's suggestion of categorizing ki- as an instrumental prefix,
>> that's exactly what I had in mind while working on this element. At least,
>> this type of ki- seems to go nicely with semantically similar prefixes such
>> as na- 'to become by itself' and ka- 'to do/become by itself' (yes, there
>> IS an intransitive ka-). Alternatively, ki- could be treated as an aspect
>> marker. I've also considered connections with benefactive/possessive ki-,
>> but that didn't turn out to be particularly illuminating.
>>
>> Regina
>>
>>
>> ""Alfred W. Tüting"" <ti at fa-kuan.muc.de> wrote:
>> Thanks a lot, Bruce,
>> only now I know that I should've remembered _kizuzeca_, at least. Now, I
>> found still another one: kimakxa (B.-M. "turn into soil, as anything rotten
>> in the ground").
>>
>> Alfred
>>
>> P.S. I wonder if kimimila (butterfly) has smth to do with this issue
>> (mila??)
>>
>>
>> Am 10.12.2007 um 13:47 schrieb shokooh Ingham:
>>
>>> I know kimathathanka 'turn into a buffalo', kizuzeca 'turn into a snake',
>>> kiwitko 'go mad', kiwanice 'turn into nothing' and kiwe 'turn into blood';
>>> a very useful prefix.  You can also use ic'icag^a/mic'icag^e 'make oneself
>>> into', but I think that is more conscious, whereas the first is
>>> non-intentional perhaps.
>>> Bruce
>>>
>>> ""Alfred W. Tüting"" <ti at fa-kuan.muc.de> wrote:
>>>> Fascinating examples from Clive.  The use of a- to mean 'more than' is an
>>>> interesting one in Lakota.  It seems to be not totally productive and is
>>>> a bit illusive, but one sees examples of it.  I have  a feeling that it
>>>> is more frequent in Dakota, but can't think on what basis I have this
>>>> feeling.  Does anyone else have this impression?
>>> Bruce <
>>>
>>>
>>> It's my impression that with regard to productiveness, it's maybe
>>> comparable to the use of ki- (in the sense of "become", "turn to") e.g.
>>> kiaguyapi (to turn into bread). Does anyone happen to know of other
>>> renderings like "turn into stone" (petrify) or such??
>>>
>>> BTW, this a- in the sense of "more than" seems to express a "general idea"
>>> found also in other languages. E.g. think of Hungarian adessive
>>> -nál/-nél (at) also used as comparative (e.g. ennél jobb - better than
>>> this).
>>>
>>> Alfred
>>>
>>>
>>> ""Alfred W. Tüting"" <ti at fa-kuan.muc.de> wrote:
>>>> "LochiNpi kiN he iyes^ akhiphapi kta thawat'elyapi na iyoks^ica uNpi
>>>> kiN he e athawat'elyapi s^ni kiN hecha."e
>>>
>>>> [=As for themselves, they preferred facing hunger,
>>> to living in
>>>> sadness (i.e. loneliness) - such were their (feelings) or 'such was
>>>> their situation'.]
>>>> (lit. : they felt willing to face the prospect of hunger, and they
>>>> did not feel a greater willingness to be living in desolation -
>>>> that's the way it was).
>>>
>>>
>>> (LoÄ<inpi kin he iyeṡ aḱip'a pi kta ṫawat'elya pi na
>>> iyokiṡica un pi kin he e
>>> aṫawat'elya pi ṡni kin héÄ<a.)
>>>
>>> (...)
>>>
>>> BTW, I like your reading of a-ṫawat'elyA <- a-waṡte (better than),
>>> it's very
>>> convincing.
>>>
>>> Alfred
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Yahoo! - a smarter inbox.
>>
>>
>>
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